Where is the actual demand for "high speed rail"

[Spoonman]

Chinese Outrage Grows Over Train Crash

Anger and skepticism that emerged quickly after Saturday's collision of two bullet trains in eastern China—which killed at least 39 people and injured more than 192—has intensified as the government has drawn fire for not being forthcoming enough with information on the disaster.

Saturday's crash was the latest in a series of embarrassing setbacks to China's high-speed rail system, the world's largest with plans for 16,000 kilometers, or 10,000 miles, of track and an estimated total cost of nearly $300 billion. The Railways Ministry has had several senior officials, including its former minister, ousted amid a corruption probe, and several recent technical glitches have taken some of the shine off the project.

A power failure on the network's flagship Beijing-Shanghai line left more than 20 trains stranded for roughly three hours on Monday, state media reported Tuesday, noting that news of the delay was first reported online by stranded passengers, including on Weibo.

Online critics have scornfully contrasted the difference between government rhetoric about the promise of high-speed rail and the reality of the troubled network.

"When a country is corrupt to the point that a single lightning strike can cause a train crash, the passing of a truck can collapse a bridge, and drinking a few bags of milk powder can cause kidney stones, none of us are exempted,"

safety was never their #1 concern. Their focus was the need to move lot of people fast and secondly the ability to say look at us an what we can do and in turn sell the technology

 

[martybegan]

Buid it and they will come.

Isn't that the same slogan the Light Rail promoters in San Jose, Ca used?

Last I heard, they were still waiting for riders to come. Hell, I wonder if in the 25 year history of the damned thing they have even served the 5 millionth rider yet. Hell, have they had 500,000 riders?

In LA, they have a light rail route called the Green Line. It starts where nobody wants to get on, and ends where nobody wants to get off. It cost a billion dollars, much of it paid for by the taxes of workers in other parts of the country. It unbelievably stops a mile short of the LA airport, where it might have done some good. Few people ride on it. Someone calculated that given the subsidies and low ridership, it would have been cheaper to give every rider $50 for a cab ride. Almost every rail project in the US is a boondoggle, nothing else.

LA's main problem is that the culture in general is Anti-mass transit. They have opened a few light rail runs in New Jersey right by Manhattan and they have been sucesses, because the people from the area are already used to the concept of mass transit. In fact, the trains are replacing older bus routes, and people usually prefer trains over busses.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

For once, I actually agree with you. The only way that HSR could serve this country is if it were transcontinental and it could compete with air traffic both in time of travel and cost.

Unfortunately, the cost of creating such service at times like these is prohibitive. This country cannot afford to buy tissue to wipe its nose let alone the capital outlay this project would require.

Immie

Hilarious. Competing with transcontinental air traffic is the last thing on the list. It's not even being considered as far as I know.

Which is one of the big reasons it is not worth even five minutes of floor time.

...At least, that's the message airline-Lobbyists are $elling.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Also,this should be more of a State issue. If California and Nevada want their High Speed Rail,that's fine with me. But those two States have to pay for it. If they want to raise their Taxes and force their Residents to build it,than so be it. That's between them and their Tax paying Residents. It should not be a Federal issue. I think $16 Trillion in Debt is enough debt for our Government. No need to add to it. If the States want it,they'll have to find a way to build it themselves. That's just my opinion anyway.

 

[KissMy]

Chinese Outrage Grows Over Train Crash

Anger and skepticism that emerged quickly after Saturday's collision of two bullet trains in eastern China—which killed at least 39 people and injured more than 192—has intensified as the government has drawn fire for not being forthcoming enough with information on the disaster.

Saturday's crash was the latest in a series of embarrassing setbacks to China's high-speed rail system, the world's largest with plans for 16,000 kilometers, or 10,000 miles, of track and an estimated total cost of nearly $300 billion. The Railways Ministry has had several senior officials, including its former minister, ousted amid a corruption probe, and several recent technical glitches have taken some of the shine off the project.

A power failure on the network's flagship Beijing-Shanghai line left more than 20 trains stranded for roughly three hours on Monday, state media reported Tuesday, noting that news of the delay was first reported online by stranded passengers, including on Weibo.

Online critics have scornfully contrasted the difference between government rhetoric about the promise of high-speed rail and the reality of the troubled network.

"When a country is corrupt to the point that a single lightning strike can cause a train crash, the passing of a truck can collapse a bridge, and drinking a few bags of milk powder can cause kidney stones, none of us are exempted,"

safety was never their #1 concern. Their focus was the need to move lot of people fast and secondly the ability to say look at us an what we can do and in turn sell the technology

I hear you there. I bought a Chinese make 10kw wind generator system. That POS destroyed itself & many things around it in 3 weeks. The controller went bad & overcharged & ruined all the batteries in the battery bank. Then the controller failed to apply the phase lock brakes in a 70 MPH wind gust causing the blades to fly apart braking the generator housing & tail section to pieces. The blades & parts hit the solar panels & roof causing more damage. Chinese green technology is pure crap.

I have a 100 year old wind mill that is still working on the farm today.

 

[martybegan]

Chinese Outrage Grows Over Train Crash

safety was never their #1 concern. Their focus was the need to move lot of people fast and secondly the ability to say look at us an what we can do and in turn sell the technology

I hear you there. I bought a Chinese make 10kw wind generator system. That POS destroyed itself & many things around it in 3 weeks. The controller went bad & overcharged & ruined all the batteries in the battery bank. Then the controller failed to apply the phase lock brakes in a 70 MPH wind gust causing the blades to fly apart braking the generator housing & tail section to pieces. The blades & parts hit the solar panels & roof causing more damage. Chinese green technology is pure crap.

I have a 100 year old wind mill that is still working on the farm today.

If you are going to go with international companies, stick to the japs and the krauts for green technology, evidently losing World War II makes you pretty good at manufacturing high tech stuff.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

If they were going to do this,they would have had to do it a long time ago. The Money's gone. It just can't be done now.

You "conservatives" surely can be some gutless, candy-ass, chickenshits.

You DO know the earth really ISN'T flat....and, there really AREN'T any sea-monsters, right?

Is it any WONDER your women leave you....looking for someone who HASN'T misplaced their backbone?????

 

[Spoonman]

Chinese Outrage Grows Over Train Crash

safety was never their #1 concern. Their focus was the need to move lot of people fast and secondly the ability to say look at us an what we can do and in turn sell the technology

I hear you there. I bought a Chinese make 10kw wind generator system. That POS destroyed itself & many things around it in 3 weeks. The controller went bad & overcharged & ruined all the batteries in the battery bank. Then the controller failed to apply the phase lock brakes in a 70 MPH wind gust causing the blades to fly apart braking the generator housing & tail section to pieces. The blades & parts hit the solar panels & roof causing more damage. Chinese green technology is pure crap.

I have a 100 year old wind mill that is still working on the farm today.

I've improted a ton of stuff from china throughout my career. I 've been to all types of factories manufacturing hundreds of different types of products. The quality is shit. the quality control is laughable. the technique they use is to re engineer any product to make it look and appear to function the same at a much lower cost. you are not getting apples to apples with a product made in china.

one time I was visiting a new factory and when i got there they were running boxes for our product. the only problem was we didn't give them any orders for boxes. what it turned out this factory was doing was making boxes for another factory who was producing our product. but they were also producing a little extra for the black market and that's what these boxes were being used for.

 

[Spoonman]

safety was never their #1 concern. Their focus was the need to move lot of people fast and secondly the ability to say look at us an what we can do and in turn sell the technology

I hear you there. I bought a Chinese make 10kw wind generator system. That POS destroyed itself & many things around it in 3 weeks. The controller went bad & overcharged & ruined all the batteries in the battery bank. Then the controller failed to apply the phase lock brakes in a 70 MPH wind gust causing the blades to fly apart braking the generator housing & tail section to pieces. The blades & parts hit the solar panels & roof causing more damage. Chinese green technology is pure crap.

I have a 100 year old wind mill that is still working on the farm today.

If you are going to go with international companies, stick to the japs and the krauts for green technology, evidently losing World War II makes you pretty good at manufacturing high tech stuff.

that is 100 % true.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

If they were going to do this,they would have had to do it a long time ago. The Money's gone. It just can't be done now.

You "conservatives" surely can be some gutless, candy-ass, chickenshits.

You DO know the earth really ISN'T flat....and, there really AREN'T any sea-monsters, right?

Is it any WONDER your women leave you....looking for someone who HASN'T misplaced their backbone?????

Yea ok,now wipe that spittle from your chin and chill out. Do you even care that all your replies look like the deranged ramblings of a Madman? Seriously man,there is something wrong with you. You can no longer engage in rational conversation. That's a very big sign showing you have serious problems you need to work out. I'm not saying this to be cruel. I'm saying this because you do seem to be on the edge. You could go over the cliff at any moment. I know many on Message Boards like to use that cliche "Seek help" line,but in your case it really does apply. You really can't engage in rational thoughtful conversation anymore. This is a problem that you yourself should be alarmed over. It's not a good sign at all. You need to take a deep breath,re-asses,and consider getting some therapy. I wish you the best of luck my friend. Really,i do.

 

[martybegan]

safety was never their #1 concern. Their focus was the need to move lot of people fast and secondly the ability to say look at us an what we can do and in turn sell the technology

I hear you there. I bought a Chinese make 10kw wind generator system. That POS destroyed itself & many things around it in 3 weeks. The controller went bad & overcharged & ruined all the batteries in the battery bank. Then the controller failed to apply the phase lock brakes in a 70 MPH wind gust causing the blades to fly apart braking the generator housing & tail section to pieces. The blades & parts hit the solar panels & roof causing more damage. Chinese green technology is pure crap.

I have a 100 year old wind mill that is still working on the farm today.

I've improted a ton of stuff from china throughout my career. I 've been to all types of factories manufacturing hundreds of different types of products. The quality is shit. the quality control is laughable. the technique they use is to re engineer any product to make it look and appear to function the same at a much lower cost. you are not getting apples to apples with a product made in china.

one time I was visiting a new factory and when i got there they were running boxes for our product. the only problem was we didn't give them any orders for boxes. what it turned out this factory was doing was making boxes for another factory who was producing our product. but they were also producing a little extra for the black market and that's what these boxes were being used for.

They are trying to make the leap from textile and low tech consumer goods to high tech, and the leap is not making it to the other side of the gorge yet. The level of quality control required for things like cars, trains, power generation is leaps and bounds above the ones you use to make women's dresses, or super-amazing-mega-robot.

 

[Political Junky]

I wonder if any of those who oppose high speed rail have ever traveled. Getting to and from most major airports is a hassle, a five hour flight in most aircraft is uncomfortable and one is stuck when a crying child or ill passenger spreads germs in a closed system.

Train travel is fun, and isn't getting to and from a major part of the process for both business and vacation travelers? On a train you can chose your seat neighbors, play cards, stand and stretch, use facilities not desgined for midgets only, use a cell phone anytime, and see the countryside.

High speed rail will create towns and villages along it's lines, allowing commuters to live several hundred miles from large urban centers and enjoy and easy commute, sometime shorter than those who live 20 to 30 miles experience everyday on our gridlocked highways.

Why have nations in Europe and Asia created extensive high speed rail systems? Why are those in our country who oppose high speed rail also opposed to green and renewable energy? Why do they oppose efforts to control pollution? Why do they oppose universal preventative healthcare?

Obviously they haven't travelled, certainly not by high speed train.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

What's stopping California and Nevada from building their High Speed Rail? Have they given specific reasons? If they want to build it,they should just go ahead and do it. If their Residents support it,than go for it. But those two States have to pay for it. It's not a Federal issue. All Tax Paying Americans shouldn't be forced to pay for California and Nevada's High Speed Rail. They will have to raise their own funds to build it. This really is a State issue. The Feds shouldn't be involved at all.

 

[Political Junky]

What's stopping California and Nevada from building their High Speed Rail? Have they given specific reasons? If they want to build it,they should just go ahead and do it. If their Residents support it,than go for it. But those two States have to pay for it. It's not a Federal issue. All Tax Paying Americans shouldn't be forced to pay for California and Nevada's High Speed Rail. They will have to raise their own funds to build it. This really is a State issue. The Feds shouldn't be involved at all.

Thank God that wasn't the attitude when trains first went across this country, or when Eisenhower built the highway system. Both projects created jobs and improved our economy.

 

[Spoonman]

I hear you there. I bought a Chinese make 10kw wind generator system. That POS destroyed itself & many things around it in 3 weeks. The controller went bad & overcharged & ruined all the batteries in the battery bank. Then the controller failed to apply the phase lock brakes in a 70 MPH wind gust causing the blades to fly apart braking the generator housing & tail section to pieces. The blades & parts hit the solar panels & roof causing more damage. Chinese green technology is pure crap.

I have a 100 year old wind mill that is still working on the farm today.

I've improted a ton of stuff from china throughout my career. I 've been to all types of factories manufacturing hundreds of different types of products. The quality is shit. the quality control is laughable. the technique they use is to re engineer any product to make it look and appear to function the same at a much lower cost. you are not getting apples to apples with a product made in china.

one time I was visiting a new factory and when i got there they were running boxes for our product. the only problem was we didn't give them any orders for boxes. what it turned out this factory was doing was making boxes for another factory who was producing our product. but they were also producing a little extra for the black market and that's what these boxes were being used for.

They are trying to make the leap from textile and low tech consumer goods to high tech, and the leap is not making it to the other side of the gorge yet. The level of quality control required for things like cars, trains, power generation is leaps and bounds above the ones you use to make women's dresses, or super-amazing-mega-robot.

that is very true. and here is another intersting thing about many chinese factories. they make anything. A typical US factory is set up to make say electric motors. a chinese factory may make electric motors, but then get a huge order for wooden end tables, and then one for metal store fixtures. they switch over night. most aren't real strong technology based operations. so they don't always have a lot of expertise in what they are doing. when problems arise, they don't know how to fix them, because they don't know what they are doing. they try to mask them as best as possible

but they have come a long way. foriegn companies have invested billions in modernizing factories and training. there are some extremely sophisticated factories. for the ost part they still make a lesser quality product. the factory where ipods are made is amazing. it's a city in itself. it has its owm grocery stores, malls, hospital, housing, parks and recreation areas. over 100,000 people live and work there. it literally is a small city. you really have to see how things are done there first hand to believe it. it's amazing.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Buid it and they will come.

yeah... from Mexico....

maybe that's why they want lines in southern Cal and Tx...

 

[LibocalypseNow]

What's stopping California and Nevada from building their High Speed Rail? Have they given specific reasons? If they want to build it,they should just go ahead and do it. If their Residents support it,than go for it. But those two States have to pay for it. It's not a Federal issue. All Tax Paying Americans shouldn't be forced to pay for California and Nevada's High Speed Rail. They will have to raise their own funds to build it. This really is a State issue. The Feds shouldn't be involved at all.

Thank God that wasn't the attitude when trains first went across this country, or when Eisenhower built the highway system. Both projects created jobs and improved our economy.

That was then,this is now. Times change. No one's stopping California and Nevada from building their High Speed Rail. If their Residents support it,then just Tax them and build it. All of America has nothing to do with it. They want it,let their Residents pay for it.

 

[midcan5]

Every large city could use high speed rail, HS rail can be a solution of urban sprawl and the massive traffic jams all large cities have almost daily. But there are unintended consequences and the places to start would be NY, PA, Wash, and LA. Hopefully sprawl does spread!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/energy/56561-plowing-not-drilling.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/congress/54977-is-drilling-equivalent-to-welfare.html

 

[martybegan]

Every large city could use high speed rail, HS rail can be a solution of urban sprawl and the massive traffic jams all large cities have almost daily. But there are unintended consequences and the places to start would be NY, PA, Wash, and LA. Hopefully sprawl does spread!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/energy/56561-plowing-not-drilling.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/congress/54977-is-drilling-equivalent-to-welfare.html

HS rail would make sprawl easier, as the economics are designed around city to city travel, not city to suburb travel. To make going at 150 MPH viable you need stretches with no stops, and a commuter scenario doesnt work that way.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Every large city could use high speed rail, HS rail can be a solution of urban sprawl and the massive traffic jams all large cities have almost daily. But there are unintended consequences and the places to start would be NY, PA, Wash, and LA. Hopefully sprawl does spread!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/energy/56561-plowing-not-drilling.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/congress/54977-is-drilling-equivalent-to-welfare.html

HS rail would make sprawl easier, as the economics are designed around city to city travel, not city to suburb travel. To make going at 150 MPH viable you need stretches with no stops, and a commuter scenario doesnt work that way.

Yeah, I need to get from Astoria to Bensonhurst at 150 mph. What could go wrong here? These people are priceless.