Where is the actual demand for "high speed rail"

[martybegan]

For proponents of federal funding of high speed rail, my question is where is the demand?

With the exception of the Northeast Corridor, what cities would benefit from having a bullet train running between them?

If the purpose of the rail line is to replace road and shuttle flights, what cities have the demand required to justify the expense of one of these systems?

The only place I see would be the Washington-New York- Boston Route, currently served by acela (not exactly high speed, but faster than normal trains). With the exception of upgrading this route to seperate track bullet trains where else would this work?

 

[WillowTree]

I think the liberoids desperatly want one between LA and Vegas.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

For proponents of federal funding of high speed rail, my question is where is the demand?

With the exception of the Northeast Corridor, what cities would benefit from having a bullet train running between them?

If the purpose of the rail line is to replace road and shuttle flights, what cities have the demand required to justify the expense of one of these systems?

The only place I see would be the Washington-New York- Boston Route, currently served by acela (not exactly high speed, but faster than normal trains). With the exception of upgrading this route to seperate track bullet trains where else would this work?

Toooooooooooooooooooooo easy.......

TRANSCONTINENTAL!!!

(....Providing jobs, COAST-TO-COAST!!!)

. . . . ​

 

[WillowTree]

For proponents of federal funding of high speed rail, my question is where is the demand?

With the exception of the Northeast Corridor, what cities would benefit from having a bullet train running between them?

If the purpose of the rail line is to replace road and shuttle flights, what cities have the demand required to justify the expense of one of these systems?

The only place I see would be the Washington-New York- Boston Route, currently served by acela (not exactly high speed, but faster than normal trains). With the exception of upgrading this route to seperate track bullet trains where else would this work?

Toooooooooooooooooooooo easy.......

TRANSCONTINENTAL!!!

(....Providing jobs, COAST-TO-COAST!!!)

. . . . ​

If we can turn the space program over to the private sector then high speed rail sounds like it belongs in the private sector also.. saves us lots of money we don't have to spend.

 

[editec]

I think that the demand can be indentified by the current pattern of domestic flights.

Certainly the NE between Boston and Washington is one market.

But one thing that we might consider is that good transportation actually creates its own market, too.

We've seen that happen when we build roads, plenty.

A backwater area suddenly becomes vibrant when we make it easier to get there.

 

[WillowTree]

I think that the demand can be indentified by the current pattern of domestic flights.

Certainly the NE between Boston and Washington is one market.

But one thing that we might consider is that good transportation actually creates its own market, too.

We've seen that happen when we build roads, plenty.

A backwater area suddenly becomes vibrant when we make it easier to get there.

Not WE.. Private sector.

 

[uscitizen]

Buid it and they will come.

 

[8537]

The NE works because of the high population density. But that's not the only formula for success - the TGV in france runs to a lot of smaller locales. I would think we could support one from San Diego-LA-San Francisco and perhaps NYC - Buffalo - Cleveland - Chicago.

Houston - San Antonio - Austin - Dallas, perhaps.

In the end, it will require some level of government subsidy - but any other transportation model will require those subsidies as well. Maintaining and adding highways costs a lot of federal dollars.

 

[blastoff]

There is no demand. It's another of Barry's crazy ideas. Come January '13 you won't hear any more talk about such high speed lunacy.

 

[ogibillm]

i think a rail system with KC and STL as hubs would work well

Minneapolis, Denver, and Dallas running to KC, Chicago, Memphis, and Atlanta out of STL

 

[Leweman]

Whats the benefit of a rail system in the U.S over air travel?

 

[8537]

Whats the benefit of a rail system in the U.S over air travel?

More stops, more amenities and much easier access are the first things that come to mind - though airlines seem to be catching up in the amenities area. One reason people love the Acela is that they can be productive on the train, responding to emails, using the phone etc...while traveling.

 

[uscitizen]

I do think we could use quite a bit of light rail systems though.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

For proponents of federal funding of high speed rail, my question is where is the demand?

With the exception of the Northeast Corridor, what cities would benefit from having a bullet train running between them?

If the purpose of the rail line is to replace road and shuttle flights, what cities have the demand required to justify the expense of one of these systems?

The only place I see would be the Washington-New York- Boston Route, currently served by acela (not exactly high speed, but faster than normal trains). With the exception of upgrading this route to seperate track bullet trains where else would this work?

There is no demand....except perhaps for some limited high population areas...

A better question might be....WHY is Obama demanding high speed rail...???

I think it's part of his plan to destroy our excellent, low cost freight rail system....high speed passenger trains could ruin our freight system...

...afterall 45% of rail freight is that nasty non-green coal stuff that provides cheap electricity....also this gives BO the opportunity to interfere with the freight system by imposing new regulations...you know how he hates American business....

Coal is the biggest single cargo, accounting for 45% by volume and 23% by value.
...

The trouble for the freight railways is that almost all the planned new fast intercity services will run on their tracks. Combining slow freight and fast passenger trains is complicated. With some exceptions on Amtrak’s Acela and North East corridor tracks, level crossings are attuned to limits of 50mph for freight and 80mph for passenger trains. But Mr Obama’s plan boils down to running intercity passenger trains at 110mph on freight tracks. Add the fact that freight trains do not stick to a regular timetable, but run variable services at short notice to meet demand, and the scope for congestion grows.

Return of regulation

The freight railroads have learned to live with the limited Amtrak passenger services on their tracks. Occasionally they moan that Amtrak pays only about a fifth of the real cost of this access. Some railmen calculate that this is equivalent to a subsidy of about $240m a year, on top of what Amtrak gets from the government. Freight-rail people regard this glumly as just part of the cost of doing business, but their spirits will hardly lift if the burden grows.

Their main complaint, however, is that one Amtrak passenger train at 110mph will remove the capacity to run six freight trains in any corridor. Nor do they believe claims that PTC [Positive Train Control, a new safety system], due to be in use by 2015, will increase capacity by allowing trains to run closer together in safety. So it will cost billions to adapt and upgrade the lines to accommodate both a big rise in freight traffic and an unprecedented burgeoning of intercity passenger services. Indeed, some of the money that the White House has earmarked will go on sidings where freight trains can be parked while intercity expresses speed by.



American railways: High-speed railroading | The Economist.

 

[martybegan]

The NE works because of the high population density. But that's not the only formula for success - the TGV in france runs to a lot of smaller locales. I would think we could support one from San Diego-LA-San Francisco and perhaps NYC - Buffalo - Cleveland - Chicago.

Houston - San Antonio - Austin - Dallas, perhaps.

In the end, it will require some level of government subsidy - but any other transportation model will require those subsidies as well. Maintaining and adding highways costs a lot of federal dollars.

The texas one I could seem but the Buffalo Cleveland Chicago area is losing population as we speak.

This is something that has to be done first as an experiment, in an optimum location to see if it works. The other key is that right of ways MUST be seperate from frieght lines to make the links independent of slowdowns related to frieght traffic.

That will probably require all sorts of eminent domain, and be very costly.

 

[blastoff]

Whats the benefit of a rail system in the U.S over air travel?

More stops, more amenities and much easier access are the first things that come to mind - though airlines seem to be catching up in the amenities area. One reason people love the Acela is that they can be productive on the train, responding to emails, using the phone etc...while traveling.

Airlines are catching up in the amenities area? What did they do put an extra peanut in each pack?

Can't people on non-Acela Amtraks also be productive, respond to emails, use a phone, etc. while traveling?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The only demand for it is from a bunch of petulant liberals.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I wonder if any of those who oppose high speed rail have ever traveled. Getting to and from most major airports is a hassle, a five hour flight in most aircraft is uncomfortable and one is stuck when a crying child or ill passenger spreads germs in a closed system.

Train travel is fun, and isn't getting to and from a major part of the process for both business and vacation travelers? On a train you can chose your seat neighbors, play cards, stand and stretch, use facilities not desgined for midgets only, use a cell phone anytime, and see the countryside.

High speed rail will create towns and villages along it's lines, allowing commuters to live several hundred miles from large urban centers and enjoy and easy commute, sometime shorter than those who live 20 to 30 miles experience everyday on our gridlocked highways.

Why have nations in Europe and Asia created extensive high speed rail systems? Why are those in our country who oppose high speed rail also opposed to green and renewable energy? Why do they oppose efforts to control pollution? Why do they oppose universal preventative healthcare?

 

[KissMy]

Lets see what tha liberal rag the New York Times has to say about High-speed rail.

“High-speed rail is good for society and it’s good for the environment, but it’s not a profitable business,” said Mr. Barrón of the International Union of Railways. He reckons that only two routes in the world — between Tokyo and Osaka, and between Paris and Lyon, France — have broken even.

Gee wizz Wally, lets put High Speed Rail everywhere.

 

[kwc57]

The NE works because of the high population density. But that's not the only formula for success - the TGV in france runs to a lot of smaller locales. I would think we could support one from San Diego-LA-San Francisco and perhaps NYC - Buffalo - Cleveland - Chicago.

Houston - San Antonio - Austin - Dallas, perhaps.

In the end, it will require some level of government subsidy - but any other transportation model will require those subsidies as well. Maintaining and adding highways costs a lot of federal dollars.

The texas one I could seem but the Buffalo Cleveland Chicago area is losing population as we speak.

This is something that has to be done first as an experiment, in an optimum location to see if it works. The other key is that right of ways MUST be seperate from frieght lines to make the links independent of slowdowns related to frieght traffic.

That will probably require all sorts of eminent domain, and be very costly.

You know, why not use the median or sides of the interstate system? High speed rail is usually built on pillars above ground so you don't have to slow for road crossings or worry about people and animals getting to the track. The right of way already exists for interstates, double task it. As you get closer to the city, you would need to determine right of way issues for access to the terminal.