When will the dumbass protesters learn

[ninja007]

That change begins at the ballot box and not in a shopping mall or on the streets of our major cities?

as libtards do they try to intimidate people, get in their face- listen to the expert agitator Barry.. they are just following orders.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

It's actually Leftists that celebrate bigger government and more people working for it. I don't know how you attribute that to Republicans.

Yeah, because Bush W. didn't increase the Federal budget by more than double, neither did Reagan and Bush snr, neither did Nixon and Ford. Wait, yes they did.

Oh, and Republicans love stopping people drinking, smoking crossing the road, marrying, and all those such things.

Small govt my arse.

"Increase the budget by more than double"? Are you simple?

 

[candycorn]

And one wonders why victim's families are often critical of the police and the DA. According to you neither body gives a damn about justice for the families.

I didn't say it was fair Candy, I said it's the way it is.

But by all means, lets continue to blame the victim's families (many of whom are black) when they don't trust the DA or the police...right?

Even you admit that justice for these families is a collateral concern to expediency and getting anyone who looks like they don't fit the profile of a criminal out of the system as soon as possible.

Thanks for at least admitting that blacks shouldn't expect justice or fair treatment.

Please quote where I said any such things about black people dishonest one

You said it wasn't fair to victim's families. Many victim's families are black, are they not. You have gone out of your way to stress that blacks are criminals (imagine my shock) and a lot of their crimes are black on black...are they not?

Then you turn around and praise the need to plea bargain for the reason of expediency I guess. Personally, given your hatred of blacks, I think you probably take it personally when a white person is bothered with being arrested for a crime.

Candy,here is how stupid you are.

Most crime is race/race.Meaning that blacks commit crimes against blacks, whites against whites etc etc.

You have been on here whining about blacks being sentenced to longer sentences than whites. Therefor logically if we say that longer sentences means more justice black victims are generally getting more justice than white victims ; yet here you are whining about black victims being the ones who aren't getting justice.

You're an idiot Candy

There isn't such a thing as "more justice".
There is simply justice. Meaning that if Sam Smith (white dude) is at 5th and Elm and cops are stopping and frisking people at 5th and Elm for no reason...Sam should get frisked, have his history run, if they find anything, bring him in, give him the one free phone call, same access to counsel, same sentence by the jury/judge, etc...

"More justice"? Thanks for another reason to laugh at you.

 

[candycorn]

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.

However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

We already have more people in jail than any other country. We can't get rid of alternative sentencing.

Sure we could. We just don't have the political will to do so. Spending money to house prisoners is a basic tenant of society.

One would think a republican could see the jobs it would create.

Now, violent crimes, that's another matter altogether, but you are honestly not very smart if you can't understand why a DA might plea bargain a rich guy out for a hefty fine whereas a poor guy got a jail sentence for the same crime.

If the case is sound...it shouldn't be plea bargained; Its' not fair to the victim. Or do we not care about that any more?

It's actually Leftists that celebrate bigger government and more people working for it. I don't know how you attribute that to Republicans.

Jobs...

Perhaps you're unaware of it but one of the growth industries in the nation is private prisons...which is why we have so many laws and incarcerate so many otherwise harmless folks--you know the same laws you guys are complaining about now.

 

[candycorn]

We all realize you're too stupid to understand the point...civil (emphasis on civil) disobedience is a time-honored method of instituting change.

civil disobedience only works when trying to change the hearts of others for a just cause. When the problem is your own heart it's quite useless. When it turns to violence it ceases to be civil disobedience.

stop attacking a straw man that's already been refuted and listen to what people are actually saying.

when is rioting and killing cops civil disobedience? Civil disobedience is based on the concept of turning the other cheek and submitting oneself to the abuse of evil to reconcile with your supposed enemies.

there is no attempt to reconcile with the police here. There is no attempt to submit to unjust laws, or even any example of an unjust law in play. Just a bunch of people stirring up hatred and anger. That's not civil disobedience. That's a mob

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It proves that blacks disproportionately commit crime.

PERIOD

Especially when you don't check to see if the white guy standing next to the black guy you're gang tackling to his death has warrants, illegal drugs, etc... in his pocket.

 

[occupied]

That change begins at the ballot box and not in a shopping mall or on the streets of our major cities?

Collective action has made this country what it is. Electing politicians and then trusting them to do the right thing never results in positive change without strong public engagement. Mass protests do work to drive public dialog along lines that defy the efforts of lobbyists and media to tell us what to think.

 

[candycorn]

This likely is what got the 24th Amendment ratified:

Not a voting booth in sight.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Sure we could. We just don't have the political will to do so. Spending money to house prisoners is a basic tenant of society.

One would think a republican could see the jobs it would create.

If the case is sound...it shouldn't be plea bargained; Its' not fair to the victim. Or do we not care about that any more?

"Fair to the victim"? No, that's never been a goal or concern of the legal system. Punishing the guilty, protecting society, deterring criminal behavior, and - where appropriate - bringing lawbreakers peacefully back into lawful society are what the legal system is about.

correct. The legal system is about getting justice for society , not for the individual victims.

Talk about drivel...

Much like saying the goal of an ER is to save the lives of humans not a given human.
Treating the rich differently (and better) is basically the GOP cure for everything....how sad

What a stupid analogy.

No more idiotic than you saying that rendering justice for society was the goal and not necessarily those members of society who had a crime committed against them.

I expected more from someone with a supposed masters degree.

Sure it wasn't a "Grand Master" degree?

Apparently, we're now defining "idiotic" as "not viewing the world through Candy's childish and uninformed prism". The fact that you, in your juvenile, spoiled-leftist viewpoint, have decided that the criminal justice system of the United States should operate like the playground monitor at a preschool and be concerned with giving hugs and snuggles and warm fuzzies does not make that the reality of how the criminal justice system actually works, or what its purpose actually is. Nor does your outrage at each and every time that adult reality intrudes on your cushy, rose-colored daydreams make that reality "racist", "misogynistic", "homophobic", or whatever other leftist buzzword has your vagina all sandy at the moment.

 

[Paperman299]

That change begins at the ballot box and not in a shopping mall or on the streets of our major cities?

So that first amendment thing doesn't really mean anything to you? People can choose how they want to voice their opinions through 5 options.

www.politicsneversleep.com

As we have pointed out multiple times on this thread, Gramps is not launching an assault on the 1st Amendment.

He wasn't trying to intimidate or punish the protestors, which is a standard tactic of the PC Police whenever someone says something they can claim "offended" them.

Wanna try again?

.

And every time it's been "pointed out" it's been no less ridiculous.

He may not be attacking the 1st Amendment directly, but the 1st Amendment is there to protect exactly this kind of speech. Public protests are what free speech is for.

It's like saying "No no I love guns, but I hate bullets!"

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

That change begins at the ballot box

When has that ever happened?

 

[Cecilie1200]

correct. The legal system is about getting justice for society , not for the individual victims.

Talk about drivel...

Much like saying the goal of an ER is to save the lives of humans not a given human.
Treating the rich differently (and better) is basically the GOP cure for everything....how sad

What a stupid analogy.

No more idiotic than you saying that rendering justice for society was the goal and not necessarily those members of society who had a crime committed against them.

I expected more from someone with a supposed masters degree.

Sure it wasn't a "Grand Master" degree?

Candy , you are dumb.
The police and DA's office work for the STATE,not the victims. They get justice for society, not for the individual victim.
If they focused solely on justice for victims, why plea bargains would never happen. I mean how does Victim A get any justice if a victim gets immunity for testifying against someone else, for example?
Candy, once a fucking gain you don't know what you're talking about.

And one wonders why victim's families are often critical of the police and the DA. According to you neither body gives a damn about justice for the families.

The only "one" who wonders why victims' families piss and moan is the very same "one" who belongs to the group of fear-mongering, vote-grabbing dipshits who deliberately keep these people ignorant in order to control them: YOU. Since you appear to be almost as pig-stupid as the minorities you oppress, let me break it down for you: those victims' families are members of society, same as everyone else . . . at least until you manage to incite them to riot and become rampaging, violent savages. That means that they get the same justice from each and every court case that the rest of us are getting: the justice of a society under the rule of law. The fact that the legal system doesn't operate to provide your idea of "justice" doesn't mean the system is broken: it means you produce asinine thoughts and ideas on the level I would expect from my kindergartner, and you react to contact with reality much the same way he does: screeching and wailing and stomping your little feet. The difference is just that he's cute, and he'll grow out of it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What a stupid analogy.

No more idiotic than you saying that rendering justice for society was the goal and not necessarily those members of society who had a crime committed against them.

I expected more from someone with a supposed masters degree.

Sure it wasn't a "Grand Master" degree?

Candy , you are dumb.
The police and DA's office work for the STATE,not the victims. They get justice for society, not for the individual victim.
If they focused solely on justice for victims, why plea bargains would never happen. I mean how does Victim A get any justice if a victim gets immunity for testifying against someone else, for example?
Candy, once a fucking gain you don't know what you're talking about.

And one wonders why victim's families are often critical of the police and the DA. According to you neither body gives a damn about justice for the families.

I didn't say it was fair Candy, I said it's the way it is.

But by all means, lets continue to blame the victim's families (many of whom are black) when they don't trust the DA or the police...right?

Even you admit that justice for these families is a collateral concern to expediency and getting anyone who looks like they don't fit the profile of a criminal out of the system as soon as possible.

Thanks for at least admitting that blacks shouldn't expect justice or fair treatment.

Actually, I blame you and evil, ignorant dirtbags like you.

 

[Wry Catcher]

That change begins at the ballot box and not in a shopping mall or on the streets of our major cities?

It begins in the newsrooms where talking heads can't figure out the difference between a non violent protester and a violent person intent to riot and loot. The former protest, the latter are (usually petty) criminals, miscreants who have no respect for others or their property and get their jollies by making others suffer.

Rioters are, IMO, personality disordered assholes, characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, lacking empathy and remorse (um, like a callous conservative on steroids).

 

[occupied]

"Fair to the victim"? No, that's never been a goal or concern of the legal system. Punishing the guilty, protecting society, deterring criminal behavior, and - where appropriate - bringing lawbreakers peacefully back into lawful society are what the legal system is about.

correct. The legal system is about getting justice for society , not for the individual victims.

Talk about drivel...

Much like saying the goal of an ER is to save the lives of humans not a given human.
Treating the rich differently (and better) is basically the GOP cure for everything....how sad

What a stupid analogy.

No more idiotic than you saying that rendering justice for society was the goal and not necessarily those members of society who had a crime committed against them.

I expected more from someone with a supposed masters degree.

Sure it wasn't a "Grand Master" degree?

Apparently, we're now defining "idiotic" as "not viewing the world through Candy's childish and uninformed prism". The fact that you, in your juvenile, spoiled-leftist viewpoint, have decided that the criminal justice system of the United States should operate like the playground monitor at a preschool and be concerned with giving hugs and snuggles and warm fuzzies does not make that the reality of how the criminal justice system actually works, or what its purpose actually is. Nor does your outrage at each and every time that adult reality intrudes on your cushy, rose-colored daydreams make that reality "racist", "misogynistic", "homophobic", or whatever other leftist buzzword has your vagina all sandy at the moment.

Contrary to conservative opinion, the criminal justice system of a free society is not supposed to be arbitrary, draconian, intrusive, brutal or eager in it's duty.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I didn't say it was fair Candy, I said it's the way it is.

But by all means, lets continue to blame the victim's families (many of whom are black) when they don't trust the DA or the police...right?

Even you admit that justice for these families is a collateral concern to expediency and getting anyone who looks like they don't fit the profile of a criminal out of the system as soon as possible.

Thanks for at least admitting that blacks shouldn't expect justice or fair treatment.

Please quote where I said any such things about black people dishonest one

You said it wasn't fair to victim's families. Many victim's families are black, are they not. You have gone out of your way to stress that blacks are criminals (imagine my shock) and a lot of their crimes are black on black...are they not?

Then you turn around and praise the need to plea bargain for the reason of expediency I guess. Personally, given your hatred of blacks, I think you probably take it personally when a white person is bothered with being arrested for a crime.

Candy,here is how stupid you are.

Most crime is race/race.Meaning that blacks commit crimes against blacks, whites against whites etc etc.

You have been on here whining about blacks being sentenced to longer sentences than whites. Therefor logically if we say that longer sentences means more justice black victims are generally getting more justice than white victims ; yet here you are whining about black victims being the ones who aren't getting justice.

You're an idiot Candy

There isn't such a thing as "more justice".
There is simply justice. Meaning that if Sam Smith (white dude) is at 5th and Elm and cops are stopping and frisking people at 5th and Elm for no reason...Sam should get frisked, have his history run, if they find anything, bring him in, give him the one free phone call, same access to counsel, same sentence by the jury/judge, etc...

"More justice"? Thanks for another reason to laugh at you.

"Stopping and frisking for no reason!" Jesus God, I'd call you a halfwit, but that would be a gross overestimation.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.

However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

We already have more people in jail than any other country. We can't get rid of alternative sentencing.

Sure we could. We just don't have the political will to do so. Spending money to house prisoners is a basic tenant of society.

One would think a republican could see the jobs it would create.

Now, violent crimes, that's another matter altogether, but you are honestly not very smart if you can't understand why a DA might plea bargain a rich guy out for a hefty fine whereas a poor guy got a jail sentence for the same crime.

If the case is sound...it shouldn't be plea bargained; Its' not fair to the victim. Or do we not care about that any more?

It's actually Leftists that celebrate bigger government and more people working for it. I don't know how you attribute that to Republicans.

Jobs...

Perhaps you're unaware of it but one of the growth industries in the nation is private prisons...which is why we have so many laws and incarcerate so many otherwise harmless folks--you know the same laws you guys are complaining about now.

"one of the largest growth industries in the nation is private prisons" Do you have a link for that, or did you just tell a lie?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.

However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

We already have more people in jail than any other country. We can't get rid of alternative sentencing.

Sure we could. We just don't have the political will to do so. Spending money to house prisoners is a basic tenant of society.

One would think a republican could see the jobs it would create.

Now, violent crimes, that's another matter altogether, but you are honestly not very smart if you can't understand why a DA might plea bargain a rich guy out for a hefty fine whereas a poor guy got a jail sentence for the same crime.

If the case is sound...it shouldn't be plea bargained; Its' not fair to the victim. Or do we not care about that any more?

It's actually Leftists that celebrate bigger government and more people working for it. I don't know how you attribute that to Republicans.

Jobs...

Perhaps you're unaware of it but one of the growth industries in the nation is private prisons...which is why we have so many laws and incarcerate so many otherwise harmless folks--you know the same laws you guys are complaining about now.

"one of the largest growth industries in the nation is private prisons" Do you have a link for that, or did you just tell a lie?

Learn to use Google Popemobile: The Prison Industry in the United States Big Business or a New Form of Slavery Global Research

 

[candycorn]

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.

However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

We already have more people in jail than any other country. We can't get rid of alternative sentencing.

Sure we could. We just don't have the political will to do so. Spending money to house prisoners is a basic tenant of society.

One would think a republican could see the jobs it would create.

Now, violent crimes, that's another matter altogether, but you are honestly not very smart if you can't understand why a DA might plea bargain a rich guy out for a hefty fine whereas a poor guy got a jail sentence for the same crime.

If the case is sound...it shouldn't be plea bargained; Its' not fair to the victim. Or do we not care about that any more?

It's actually Leftists that celebrate bigger government and more people working for it. I don't know how you attribute that to Republicans.

Jobs...

Perhaps you're unaware of it but one of the growth industries in the nation is private prisons...which is why we have so many laws and incarcerate so many otherwise harmless folks--you know the same laws you guys are complaining about now.

"one of the largest growth industries in the nation is private prisons" Do you have a link for that, or did you just tell a lie?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

We already have more people in jail than any other country. We can't get rid of alternative sentencing.

Sure we could. We just don't have the political will to do so. Spending money to house prisoners is a basic tenant of society.

One would think a republican could see the jobs it would create.

Now, violent crimes, that's another matter altogether, but you are honestly not very smart if you can't understand why a DA might plea bargain a rich guy out for a hefty fine whereas a poor guy got a jail sentence for the same crime.

If the case is sound...it shouldn't be plea bargained; Its' not fair to the victim. Or do we not care about that any more?

It's actually Leftists that celebrate bigger government and more people working for it. I don't know how you attribute that to Republicans.

Jobs...

Perhaps you're unaware of it but one of the growth industries in the nation is private prisons...which is why we have so many laws and incarcerate so many otherwise harmless folks--you know the same laws you guys are complaining about now.

"one of the largest growth industries in the nation is private prisons" Do you have a link for that, or did you just tell a lie?

So you can't prove that "one of the largest growth industries in the nation is private prisons" as you claimed and you confess that you told a lie.

Got it.

And we haven't even gotten to the outlandish claim that building prisons is a "republican" thing. It's just lie after lie with you people.

 

[candycorn]