When will the dumbass protesters learn

[Skylar]

Who said they didn't have the right? Anyone? Nope....

Just too stupid to understand the point. Seems as a felon I've got more common sense than you huh

We all realize you're too stupid to understand the point...civil (emphasis on civil) disobedience is a time-honored method of instituting change.

civil disobedience only works when trying to change the hearts of others for a just cause. When the problem is your own heart it's quite useless. When it turns to violence it ceases to be civil disobedience.

stop attacking a straw man that's already been refuted and listen to what people are actually saying.

when is rioting and killing cops civil disobedience? Civil disobedience is based on the concept of turning the other cheek and submitting oneself to the abuse of evil to reconcile with your supposed enemies.

there is no attempt to reconcile with the police here. There is no attempt to submit to unjust laws, or even any example of an unjust law in play. Just a bunch of people stirring up hatred and anger. That's not civil disobedience. That's a mob

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Who said they didn't have the right? Anyone? Nope....

Just too stupid to understand the point. Seems as a felon I've got more common sense than you huh

We all realize you're too stupid to understand the point...civil (emphasis on civil) disobedience is a time-honored method of instituting change.

civil disobedience only works when trying to change the hearts of others for a just cause. When the problem is your own heart it's quite useless. When it turns to violence it ceases to be civil disobedience.

stop attacking a straw man that's already been refuted and listen to what people are actually saying.

when is rioting and killing cops civil disobedience? Civil disobedience is based on the concept of turning the other cheek and submitting oneself to the abuse of evil to reconcile with your supposed enemies.

there is no attempt to reconcile with the police here. There is no attempt to submit to unjust laws, or even any example of an unjust law in play. Just a bunch of people stirring up hatred and anger. That's not civil disobedience. That's a mob

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

"Correlation proves causation!"

Liberal "logic".

You forgot to mention another relevant statistic, dumb bitch: what percentage of crimes are committed by blacks? Since I'm not a racist like you, I think convictions should be based on whether or not the assholes DID THE CRIME, rather than "Oh, we have too many blacks in prison".

What the hell ever made you think there SHOULD be any sort of racial parity in imprisonment?

 

[Cecilie1200]

We all realize you're too stupid to understand the point...civil (emphasis on civil) disobedience is a time-honored method of instituting change.

civil disobedience only works when trying to change the hearts of others for a just cause. When the problem is your own heart it's quite useless. When it turns to violence it ceases to be civil disobedience.

stop attacking a straw man that's already been refuted and listen to what people are actually saying.

when is rioting and killing cops civil disobedience? Civil disobedience is based on the concept of turning the other cheek and submitting oneself to the abuse of evil to reconcile with your supposed enemies.

there is no attempt to reconcile with the police here. There is no attempt to submit to unjust laws, or even any example of an unjust law in play. Just a bunch of people stirring up hatred and anger. That's not civil disobedience. That's a mob

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

Feel free to now prove that blacks are getting "harsher and less just" sentences. And then feel free to prove that it's because they're black. I'll say it again: correlation does not prove causation. And just because YOU see all blacks as just their skin color doesn't mean everyone does.

 

[Carib Gyal]

Who said they didn't have the right? Anyone? Nope....

Just too stupid to understand the point. Seems as a felon I've got more common sense than you huh

We all realize you're too stupid to understand the point...civil (emphasis on civil) disobedience is a time-honored method of instituting change.

civil disobedience only works when trying to change the hearts of others for a just cause. When the problem is your own heart it's quite useless. When it turns to violence it ceases to be civil disobedience.

stop attacking a straw man that's already been refuted and listen to what people are actually saying.

when is rioting and killing cops civil disobedience? Civil disobedience is based on the concept of turning the other cheek and submitting oneself to the abuse of evil to reconcile with your supposed enemies.

there is no attempt to reconcile with the police here. There is no attempt to submit to unjust laws, or even any example of an unjust law in play. Just a bunch of people stirring up hatred and anger. That's not civil disobedience. That's a mob

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

12.6% of the US population.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

We all realize you're too stupid to understand the point...civil (emphasis on civil) disobedience is a time-honored method of instituting change.

civil disobedience only works when trying to change the hearts of others for a just cause. When the problem is your own heart it's quite useless. When it turns to violence it ceases to be civil disobedience.

stop attacking a straw man that's already been refuted and listen to what people are actually saying.

when is rioting and killing cops civil disobedience? Civil disobedience is based on the concept of turning the other cheek and submitting oneself to the abuse of evil to reconcile with your supposed enemies.

there is no attempt to reconcile with the police here. There is no attempt to submit to unjust laws, or even any example of an unjust law in play. Just a bunch of people stirring up hatred and anger. That's not civil disobedience. That's a mob

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

What you say is true, sort of.

Blacks don't get longer sentences, less favorable plea deals, and or more likely death sentences.

POOR criminals do. Blacks who have money are getting the same favorable treatment as whites who have money and whites who don't have money are getting the same unfavorable treatment as blacks who don't have money.

That's not racism, that's just the way the system works, the better lawyer you have, the less harsh the law is.

Why? Simple. A prosecutor's job is to put criminals in jail yes, BUT just like any other job time is money. They prefer plea bargains when possible.

On the other side, a public defender isn't being paid very well, they are eager to put every case to bed and move on. Likely to take the first deal that comes a long, versus a private lawyer who is charging by the hour and able to threaten a long drawn out trial, with appeals in order to get a better plea.


Then, if you want to talk about JUST jury sentencing , I found this little jewel.

https://www.law.upenn.edu/journals/...ersSteinerSandys3U.Pa.J.Const.L.171(2001).pdf

And yes indeed both blacks and whites allow race to play apart of their decision making. Not sure what we can do about that, except to completely change the way we choose juries,which I'm not completely against doing.

 

[Cecilie1200]

civil disobedience only works when trying to change the hearts of others for a just cause. When the problem is your own heart it's quite useless. When it turns to violence it ceases to be civil disobedience.

stop attacking a straw man that's already been refuted and listen to what people are actually saying.

when is rioting and killing cops civil disobedience? Civil disobedience is based on the concept of turning the other cheek and submitting oneself to the abuse of evil to reconcile with your supposed enemies.

there is no attempt to reconcile with the police here. There is no attempt to submit to unjust laws, or even any example of an unjust law in play. Just a bunch of people stirring up hatred and anger. That's not civil disobedience. That's a mob

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

What you say is true, sort of.

Blacks don't get longer sentences, less favorable plea deals, and or more likely death sentences.

POOR criminals do. Blacks who have money are getting the same favorable treatment as whites who have money and whites who don't have money are getting the same unfavorable treatment as blacks who don't have money.

That's not racism, that's just the way the system works, the better lawyer you have, the less harsh the law is.

Why? Simple. A prosecutor's job is to put criminals in jail yes, BUT just like any other job time is money. They prefer plea bargains when possible.

On the other side, a public defender isn't being paid very well, they are eager to put every case to bed and move on. Likely to take the first deal that comes a long, versus a private lawyer who is charging by the hour and able to threaten a long drawn out trial, with appeals in order to get a better plea.


Then, if you want to talk about JUST jury sentencing , I found this little jewel.

https://www.law.upenn.edu/journals/conlaw/articles/volume3/issue1/BowersSteinerSandys3U.Pa.J.Const.L.171(2001).pdf

And yes indeed both blacks and whites allow race to play apart of their decision making. Not sure what we can do about that, except to completely change the way we choose juries,which I'm not completely against doing.

Yeah, well, life sucks when you're poor. Always has, always will. Leftists are the only people who are constantly surprised by this, or think it's the government's job to change this life fact. Adults just treat it as an incentive to stop being poor as quickly as possible.

 

[candycorn]

We all realize you're too stupid to understand the point...civil (emphasis on civil) disobedience is a time-honored method of instituting change.

civil disobedience only works when trying to change the hearts of others for a just cause. When the problem is your own heart it's quite useless. When it turns to violence it ceases to be civil disobedience.

stop attacking a straw man that's already been refuted and listen to what people are actually saying.

when is rioting and killing cops civil disobedience? Civil disobedience is based on the concept of turning the other cheek and submitting oneself to the abuse of evil to reconcile with your supposed enemies.

there is no attempt to reconcile with the police here. There is no attempt to submit to unjust laws, or even any example of an unjust law in play. Just a bunch of people stirring up hatred and anger. That's not civil disobedience. That's a mob

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.

However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

civil disobedience only works when trying to change the hearts of others for a just cause. When the problem is your own heart it's quite useless. When it turns to violence it ceases to be civil disobedience.

stop attacking a straw man that's already been refuted and listen to what people are actually saying.

when is rioting and killing cops civil disobedience? Civil disobedience is based on the concept of turning the other cheek and submitting oneself to the abuse of evil to reconcile with your supposed enemies.

there is no attempt to reconcile with the police here. There is no attempt to submit to unjust laws, or even any example of an unjust law in play. Just a bunch of people stirring up hatred and anger. That's not civil disobedience. That's a mob

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.

However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

We already have more people in jail than any other country. We can't get rid of alternative sentencing.

Now, violent crimes, that's another matter altogether, but you are honestly not very smart if you can't understand why a DA might plea bargain a rich guy out for a hefty fine whereas a poor guy got a jail sentence for the same crime.

 

[Cecilie1200]

civil disobedience only works when trying to change the hearts of others for a just cause. When the problem is your own heart it's quite useless. When it turns to violence it ceases to be civil disobedience.

stop attacking a straw man that's already been refuted and listen to what people are actually saying.

when is rioting and killing cops civil disobedience? Civil disobedience is based on the concept of turning the other cheek and submitting oneself to the abuse of evil to reconcile with your supposed enemies.

there is no attempt to reconcile with the police here. There is no attempt to submit to unjust laws, or even any example of an unjust law in play. Just a bunch of people stirring up hatred and anger. That's not civil disobedience. That's a mob

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.

However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

Prove that it's not "applied equally". And no, bare numbers on "Look how many blacks get arrested" is not proof of anything except that a lot of blacks meet the criteria for reasonable suspicion of a crime.

Why thinking is so hard to do is a mystery.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

civil disobedience only works when trying to change the hearts of others for a just cause. When the problem is your own heart it's quite useless. When it turns to violence it ceases to be civil disobedience.

stop attacking a straw man that's already been refuted and listen to what people are actually saying.

when is rioting and killing cops civil disobedience? Civil disobedience is based on the concept of turning the other cheek and submitting oneself to the abuse of evil to reconcile with your supposed enemies.

there is no attempt to reconcile with the police here. There is no attempt to submit to unjust laws, or even any example of an unjust law in play. Just a bunch of people stirring up hatred and anger. That's not civil disobedience. That's a mob

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.



However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

Here's a serious question for you. How much police training do you have?

 

[candycorn]

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.

However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

We already have more people in jail than any other country. We can't get rid of alternative sentencing.

Sure we could. We just don't have the political will to do so. Spending money to house prisoners is a basic tenant of society.

One would think a republican could see the jobs it would create.

Now, violent crimes, that's another matter altogether, but you are honestly not very smart if you can't understand why a DA might plea bargain a rich guy out for a hefty fine whereas a poor guy got a jail sentence for the same crime.

If the case is sound...it shouldn't be plea bargained; Its' not fair to the victim. Or do we not care about that any more?

 

[candycorn]

You're uncharacteristically right. There is NEVER justification for violence. NEVER. End of story.

I will say that a protest does change hearts and minds to some degree---BEFORE IT TURNS VIOLENT. And after it turns violent, that change does linger.

"What Change" you may ask?

A guy killed 6 people and injured 13. Of the dead was a 9 year old girl, and a 63 year old judge. Of the 13 injured was a US Congresswoman. The gunman was white.

A guy killed a cop and injured two others in Pennsylvania. That's right....killed a cop. The gunman was white.

Michael Brown, thug, punched a cop (didn't kill him), was unarmed and gunned down in the street.
Michael Brown was black.

Eric Grarner (not sure what he did) was attacked by a number of police, and wound up dead after being placed in a choke-hold. Garner was not armed. Eric Garner was black.

When you have two guys who murdered people with firearms who are taken into custody who are white and two black guys who are just as innocent until proven guilty who are unarmed and are dead...I think the way cops react should be called into question. At best there seems to be a lot of disparity in the reactions.

In terms of societal impact, it seems that a black without a gun is more threatening than a white holding a figurative smoking weapon...

That is something we need to address.

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.



However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

Here's a serious question for you. How much police training do you have?

Zero.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.



However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

Here's a serious question for you. How much police training do you have?

Zero.

I have a Masters degree in Criminal Justice and retired as LTC in the Army, Military Police my entire career. I've went to some of the best training in the world on the subject, and I'm here to tell you like it or not, profiling is good police work.

Now , understand that there is MUCH more to profiling than "hey he's black get him" , that's racism and entirely inappropriate to good police work. That being said, being black CAN be part of a solid profile.

You have to remember, that police are vastly outnumbered in any given jurisdiction, and so to be even remotely effective, they MUST prioritize who it is they key in on. That's where profiling comes in.

Look at somewhere where it is done wrong, the TSA. Those guys are idiots. They are scrutinizing old ladies and children, and while children and old ladies certainly need to be screened, they are not the terrorists. But public opinion has made profiling impossible for the TSA, so instead they harass everyone.

Then , look at a city like NYC. I guarantee you that within each precinct the police know who the criminals are, or at a minimum they know the demographics of a criminal in their precinct. And given that there are tens of thousands of people per square mile in NYC they don't have time to treat everyone as a suspect, on top of there being no need to do so. So they focus on who is likely to be a criminal. Thanks in large part to their own actions,blacks fit that description.

That's not racism, that's fact.

Let me give another example.

Domestic abuse.

It's rare, but it does happen that women are the abusers. But the PROFILE says that men are the far more likely to be the abuser, so when you receive a domestic disturbance call, the default mentality is that the man beat on the woman, and that is the way you treat it unless and until the facts say otherwise. Is it sexist to go in with a judgement based on experience?

I know it's touchy feely to say "you can't just assume blacks are criminals", but here's a secret for you.

A good police officer who wants to stay alive assumes EVERY person they come in contact with is a criminal to some degree or another and rates the danger to their own safety based on a profile. In other words, if I come across two suspected drug dealers, one is a 5'2" 120 lb white woman and the other is 6'5" 245 lb black man; in my mind they are both criminals in fact of the exact same crime as far as I'm concerned, but the black male is OBVIOUSLY more of a danger to me and so will be treated differently. If that makes me a racist, than so be it.

 

[Avatar4321]

As a defense attorney, I've seen that moet people accused of a crime are accused because they are actually guilty. I can count on my fingers the number of cases I saw that were actually worth going to trial on the merits.

and I saw and defended people of all races. I saw Asians the least. And I was in a fairly metropolitan area. Was it that the system was biased against blacks and for Asians? Seems unlikely. I think it was more cultural. The street culture creates more criminals and unfortunately more blacks are involved with it. Most of the criminals I saw came from that street culture regardless of race .

as long as we let race rule the discussion we will never really fix the cultural problem

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

As a defense attorney, I've seen that moet people accused of a crime are accused because they are actually guilty. I can count on my fingers the number of cases I saw that were actually worth going to trial on the merits.

and I saw and defended people of all races. I saw Asians the least. And I was in a fairly metropolitan area. Was it that the system was biased against blacks and for Asians? Seems unlikely. I think it was more cultural. The street culture creates more criminals and unfortunately more blacks are involved with it. Most of the criminals I saw came from that street culture regardless of race .

as long as we let race rule the discussion we will never really fix the cultural problem

I think that is a bit of the confusion to. People assume that police are out arresting people who have done nothing wrong. Untrue.

As you just stated is your experience. MOST people who get arrested are guilty, the defenses job then shifts from proving innocence to mitigating sentence. Obviously a private defense attorney such as yourself is going to be more successful at that then the public defender would be.

 

[candycorn]

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.



However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

Here's a serious question for you. How much police training do you have?

Zero.

I have a Masters degree in Criminal Justice and retired as LTC in the Army, Military Police my entire career. I've went to some of the best training in the world on the subject, and I'm here to tell you like it or not, profiling is good police work.

Now , understand that there is MUCH more to profiling than "hey he's black get him" , that's racism and entirely inappropriate to good police work. That being said, being black CAN be part of a solid profile.

Master's degree? Yeah okay...

yes it does prove something.

It proves that in 100 years only six blacks were worth electing

you want to go again?

I encourage blacks to have interracial children. Having some white blood in them will make them more likely to be successful in life than if they were solid black.

Most blacks in Alabama can't read anyway. So who is going to be persuaded by these signs?

I bet your lone regret was not being able to turn the dogs loose on blacks...eh?

88% of all stop and frisks turned up nothing. Fact
The NYPD stopped 6 blacks for every 1 white. Fact

Seems like if they would have stopped more non-blacks, they would have a better batting average than 12%

But don't let facts stand in your way.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.



However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

Here's a serious question for you. How much police training do you have?

Zero.

I have a Masters degree in Criminal Justice and retired as LTC in the Army, Military Police my entire career. I've went to some of the best training in the world on the subject, and I'm here to tell you like it or not, profiling is good police work.

Now , understand that there is MUCH more to profiling than "hey he's black get him" , that's racism and entirely inappropriate to good police work. That being said, being black CAN be part of a solid profile.

Master's degree? Yeah okay...

yes it does prove something.

It proves that in 100 years only six blacks were worth electing

you want to go again?

I encourage blacks to have interracial children. Having some white blood in them will make them more likely to be successful in life than if they were solid black.

Most blacks in Alabama can't read anyway. So who is going to be persuaded by these signs?

I bet your lone regret was not being able to turn the dogs loose on blacks...eh?

88% of all stop and frisks turned up nothing. Fact
The NYPD stopped 6 blacks for every 1 white. Fact

Seems like if they would have stopped more non-blacks, they would have a better batting average than 12%

But don't let facts stand in your way.

So let me see if I have this straight. I post a factual post that explains why police profile and you respond with drivel?

I don't respond to children candy, if you would like to continue this discussion, that means being willing to learn something about which you do not know anything about , then stay on point, I mean seriously, you didn't even respond to my actual post at all.

If not, I'll place you on ignore with the other children and move on.



Damn, surely one liberal on here actually wants to discuss

I'd bet you money right now thhttp://When will the dumbass protesters learn Page 10 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum so few whites were stopped and frisked in NYC simply because of WHERE the stop and frisks were employed. Think anyone was stopped and frisked in downtown Manhattan? Black or white? Doubtful

and here let me show you something else.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downlo...planning/2012_year_end_enforcement_report.pdf

whites commuted a whopping 9% of murders in NYC in 2012 Candy

5% of rapes in NYC were committed by whites Candy, FIVE percent

6% of robberies in NYC were by whites

9.5% of felonious assaults, by whites

and right on down the list Candy.

As I said, race is part of a profile of good police work, the fact that it offends you is irrelevant.

Well balls in your court, child or adult?

 

[Carib Gyal]

Race is a legal and legitimate aspect of suspicion, according to the Supreme Court. So are height and weight, gender, clothing, and other factors. That's why a cop can get a call for a robbery suspect, "black male, 6'4", 300lbs, in red cap and white t-shirt, driving a 1974 El Dorado with primer."

 

[Cecilie1200]

You pull four cases and act as if that is some sort of barometer? Please tell me you aren't that stupid.

There are 2M black males in prison in this country TODAY. That's living , verifiable proof that there is no concerted racism by the police force that says "kill da niggahs"

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.

However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

We already have more people in jail than any other country. We can't get rid of alternative sentencing.

Sure we could. We just don't have the political will to do so. Spending money to house prisoners is a basic tenant of society.

One would think a republican could see the jobs it would create.

Now, violent crimes, that's another matter altogether, but you are honestly not very smart if you can't understand why a DA might plea bargain a rich guy out for a hefty fine whereas a poor guy got a jail sentence for the same crime.

If the case is sound...it shouldn't be plea bargained; Its' not fair to the victim. Or do we not care about that any more?

"Fair to the victim"? No, that's never been a goal or concern of the legal system. Punishing the guilty, protecting society, deterring criminal behavior, and - where appropriate - bringing lawbreakers peacefully back into lawful society are what the legal system is about.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Blacks are 18% of the population outside of prison and 50+ % inside of prison and that proves no concerted racism?

Conservative logic.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Blacks can commit disproportionate amounts of crime and still get sentences that are harsher and less just.

Generally speaking, people commit crimes within their racial group. And black men are 6 times more likely to die of violent crime than their white counter parts. With almost all of those committing violent crimes against blacks...being black. And by 'almost all', I mean 80 to 90%. That's a powerful indication that blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime.

And.....they get longer sentences for the same offenses. They are less likely to get probation. They are less likely to get favorable plea deals. They are more likely to be convicted. And more likely to be sentenced to death.

So the answer to both the question of racism and the question of blacks committing disproportionately more crime is a resounding 'yes' on both counts.

I agree.

You do a crime, you should pay the consequences. Personally, I'm much more for getting rid of ALL parole and probation, house arrests, electronic monitoring, etc... These diminish the seriousness of the crime to the victims. A 10 year sentence should be ten years; 3,650 days. I know it's more expensive but if you were to put some real teeth into the sentencing, you would have less crime overall in my view.

However, apply the system equally throughout; from random stops to arrests, to warrant sweeps to investigating, to jury selection, to jury instructions, to sentencing. Why this is so hard to do is a mystery.

We already have more people in jail than any other country. We can't get rid of alternative sentencing.

Sure we could. We just don't have the political will to do so. Spending money to house prisoners is a basic tenant of society.

One would think a republican could see the jobs it would create.

Now, violent crimes, that's another matter altogether, but you are honestly not very smart if you can't understand why a DA might plea bargain a rich guy out for a hefty fine whereas a poor guy got a jail sentence for the same crime.

If the case is sound...it shouldn't be plea bargained; Its' not fair to the victim. Or do we not care about that any more?

"Fair to the victim"? No, that's never been a goal or concern of the legal system. Punishing the guilty, protecting society, deterring criminal behavior, and - where appropriate - bringing lawbreakers peacefully back into lawful society are what the legal system is about.

correct. The legal system is about getting justice for society , not for the individual victims.