The Palestinian Emirates "Solution"

[Ropey]

Jordan.

That will be the Palestinian state. The rule will be by the GCC.

Would then forceably remove the Palestinians to Jordan?

Arabs will be in charge of the entire 'solution'. They want no idea of a greater Israel so they have allied with Israel. Just watch. Syria is already over. The GCC is far more than anyone had known. Research it. Look to twitter and the Arab posters. It's not hard to see. Israel is not in charge of anything. Neither is the US although Trump is providing strong Arial and kinetic bombardment for the GCC.

Who do you think is fighting down there? I mean, other than the Hezbollah and Iranian losses?

Two weeks ago the US took out a Russian Mercinary attack. They came in with kinetics and killed 200+ Russians who were taken back to Russia in bodybags.

The fight is pretty much over already and it's the Arabs who have won, not the US, although they will profit and so will the Jews as well as the Palestinians who will have an interconnected country which should have been the case before the first partitioning to Jordan.

This is not a Jewish game. This is a GCC game.

 

[Ropey]

mesho

Remember this. This comes from the wisdom of an old Jew.

Arabs hate the idea of killing their own as much as Jews hate it. The Ayatollah was the one who said the deaths of the believers were nothing to the glory of allah and if millions had to die, then so be it.

Arabs? Not so much. They have to be driven to war. Even then, it's fast and done. No games, no leaks.

 

[Coyote]

Only if all Palestinians were forced to live there - and that I would disagree with.

Where else would they be allowed to live. Israel has been pushing Palestinians into bantustans for a long time.

Did you read the link?

I have. It can't work. It would be population centers (bantustans) cut off from the resources and distribution networks required to have a functioning economy. It would be similar to what we have now where the only "economy" is foreign aid.

This is what worked before and is what works in every country. Each city is the center of a support network.

The City State idea HAS worked though - it worked in Italy.

Links?

Rennaiscence history.

 

[Ropey]

This leftist game of using children? It was transferred to the Palestinians and al-Qaida extremists...etc.

It's not an Arab thing. Not at all. They will end this. They have been stewing a long time.

Decades in fact. I never knew how long they had been planning a GCC military and man is it huge.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Where else would they be allowed to live. Israel has been pushing Palestinians into bantustans for a long time.

Did you read the link?

I have. It can't work. It would be population centers (bantustans) cut off from the resources and distribution networks required to have a functioning economy. It would be similar to what we have now where the only "economy" is foreign aid.

This is what worked before and is what works in every country. Each city is the center of a support network.

The City State idea HAS worked though - it worked in Italy.

Links?

Rennaiscence history.

A city cannot stand on its own. It needs food, building materials, raw materials for manufacturing, markets for products. It has to somehow be connected to a larger distribution network.

 

[toomuchtime_]

We have had discussions on two-state, three-state and one-state "solutions" - this is a new one that has not had a discussion devoted to it. Thank you rylah for bringing it up.

The link is: Palestinian Emirates Introduction

The idea is fascinating. I disagree with some of his historic preamble...but that is neither hear nor there.

Some of the points he makes are valid imo. The non-nationalist loyalties of the Palestinian's themselves that is also reflective of the Arab culture surrounding them in general - stronger loyalties to family, tribe and locale than to a "nation". This is evident in the high degree of corruption in the ruling parties. A more local governance might be more effective. There was a day when city-states were common - before the idea of nation states came into being. This might be a viable answer.

My one major concern is this. Dr. Kedar makes a point that no Jewish families should be forced to move (as would happen in a two-state solution) - but, in this solution - neither should any Palestinian families. Their right to remain where they are must be preserved.

What are your thoughts on this?

Dr. Kedar has too much time on his hands. What would this be a solution to?

 

[william the wie]

Sounds good but even if it works implementation depends on effective elimination of Hamas and the PLO

 

[Ropey]

 

[Ropey]

Hezbollah Shia -- Lebanon.

Those are the secondary targets. If they don't demilitarize and give the military power back to the Lebanese army ... they won't even have a political presence.

 

[rylah]

This sounds like a bantustan solution.

Weren't bantustans based on skin color?
This is not it...well only if You think that an Israeli passport suddenly changes ones skin and race.

 

[Linkiloo]

Try to get the Arabs to agree on anything.....

 

[rylah]

I think it would end up like urban gangs in a big city. All you can really do is help everyone be invested in the community they live in.

Usually there's one dominant tribe in each emirate.
Those were already set naturally and dominate their life on the ground today, so why should anyone change their natural social structure?

Also what is a more stable situation - unrelated tribes lumped into a superficial system of 2 main gangs fighting for UNRWA money, being dragged into wars to support tribes they don't even marry with because it serves Hamas and PA political survival;
Or system where each can have their voice, independent economy and have less "gangs" to compete with?

Although counterintuitive to European way of life, the later seems like a more stable situation.

 

[rylah]

I like it ... but Hamas and PLO will never voluntarily agree to give up the control they have over their local populations. If the sheiks were to create militias to fight the PLO in the West Bank, the situation will quickly degenerate into a Beirut scenario with Israel just trying to contain the spillover of violence into their own territory.

No Jews in the West Bank would be safe from the resulting carnage.

And what if there are patrons from notable Arabian dynasties, who's word has weight, and have familial relationship to the tribes?

I don't hear about civil wars in the UAE or even Saudia, and boy do they have resources to fight for
We may not like their way of life but seems they have this thing working for them.

 

[rylah]

I like it ... but Hamas and PLO will never voluntarily agree to give up the control they have over their local populations. If the sheiks were to create militias to fight the PLO in the West Bank, the situation will quickly degenerate into a Beirut scenario with Israel just trying to contain the spillover of violence into their own territory.

No Jews in the West Bank would be safe from the resulting carnage.

Could the PLO effectively fight local control - especially if democratically elected? Neither PLO nor Hamas are particularly popular among the Palestinians, there just isn't a whole lot of choice.

Both Hamas and the PLO are pretty effective at one thing ... eliminating the competition. Anyone who they deem a threat to their control is immediately accused of being a 'Zionist Sympathizer' and publicly shot to send a message.

Not too many local chieftains or sheiks are going to stand against them.

You might be surprised:

SUMMARY

The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause for concern.


"Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine boycotted the elections on the grounds that they were held in the West Bank and not the Gaza Strip. Hamas refused to hold the elections in Gaza in protest against the Palestinian High Court of Justice’s calling off in September 2016 of the local elections that were scheduled for the next month, as well as in protest of President Mahmoud Abbas’ formation of the Local Elections Court on Jan. 10 without consulting the Palestinian factions....

Yousef Tamiza, a campaign manager for the tribal National Alliance list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. Independent lists won the other three seats.

Nashar said that in many of the West Bank governorates and villages, voters opted for independent and tribal lists because they are tired of the Palestinian parties and their political affiliations, which he said have a negative impact on the interests of citizens. Also, he added, voters have become convinced that partisan lists never implement their electoral programs....

Abdel Sattar Qassem, a professor of political science at An-Najah National University in Nablus, told Al-Monitor that the victory of the tribal lists in many municipal councils in the local elections poses a threat to the Palestinian people because of the return of what he called "tribal reunification" at the expense of the national public interest. He attributed this to the people’s loss of confidence in political parties.

He told Al-Monitor, “There is a great leadership vacuum in the Palestinian arena — both socially and politically — and someone had to fill this vacuum, so families and tribes managed to do so.”

He added, “Tribes are a separatist social structure, not a unitary one. Each family works to preserve its own interests, regardless of the public interest, and this is why a great danger is lurking. Social and political division will come to affect individuals and families in one town, whereas it has been until now only confined to Hamas and Fatah.”

The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

*(the page doesn't exist anymore,however the text above is from that exact article that I've copy-pasted a year ago when it was available post#408)

 

[rylah]

Yes, the way I view this solution - UAE, Qatar and Saudia are a key.
They might be the authority and voice to whom their tribesmen in Palestine can listen and respect. Explain them in their language so to speak,the direction the Arab world is heading.

Less and less tolerate Hamas and PA and their suicidal choices, while the Arab world is transforming and modernizing. They know Israel is a key, while Hamas and PA are the ones who'll drag them into confrontations they no longer deem viable.

 

[rylah]

We have had discussions on two-state, three-state and one-state "solutions" - this is a new one that has not had a discussion devoted to it. Thank you rylah for bringing it up.

The link is: Palestinian Emirates Introduction

The idea is fascinating. I disagree with some of his historic preamble...but that is neither hear nor there.

Some of the points he makes are valid imo. The non-nationalist loyalties of the Palestinian's themselves that is also reflective of the Arab culture surrounding them in general - stronger loyalties to family, tribe and locale than to a "nation". This is evident in the high degree of corruption in the ruling parties. A more local governance might be more effective. There was a day when city-states were common - before the idea of nation states came into being. This might be a viable answer.

My one major concern is this. Dr. Kedar makes a point that no Jewish families should be forced to move (as would happen in a two-state solution) - but, in this solution - neither should any Palestinian families. Their right to remain where they are must be preserved.

What are your thoughts on this?

No one moves, those who live in the rural areas either join the city or receive an Israeli citizenship if they want. The can stay and get a citizenship of one of the cities their tribe belongs to, but of course that has its' disadvantages, as any foreign national living abroad.

He also talked about rural lands, surrounding villages that fused with the city to be a part of the Emirate.

 

[rylah]

Jordan.

That will be the Palestinian state. The rule will be by the GCC.

Would then forceably remove the Palestinians to Jordan?

Arabs will be in charge of the entire 'solution'. They want no idea of a greater Israel so they have allied with Israel. Just watch. Syria is already over. The GCC is far more than anyone had known. Research it. Look to twitter and the Arab posters. It's not hard to see. Israel is not in charge of anything. Neither is the US although Trump is providing strong Arial and kinetic bombardment for the GCC.

Who do you think is fighting down there? I mean, other than the Hezbollah and Iranian losses?

Two weeks ago the US took out a Russian Mercinary attack. They came in with kinetics and killed 200+ Russians who were taken back to Russia in bodybags.

The fight is pretty much over already and it's the Arabs who have won, not the US, although they will profit and so will the Jews as well as the Palestinians who will have an interconnected country which should have been the case before the first partitioning to Jordan.

This is not a Jewish game. This is a GCC game.

Very interesting post.
I don't see Arabs winning Iran, I see Iran reaching out as far as Yemen and Gaza successfully encircling the whole region.

However I agree 200% that it's not a Jewish game directly, I oppose any direct treaties between Jews and Palestinian Arabs, neither us nor them are allowed to sing anything on land issues with each other, that's what any Rabbi or Sheikh will tell You.

If it's directed not as an isolated solution between the 2, but as part of a bigger regional shift maybe it can be done. It's like we're reaching for help in a tribal dispute, to get advice in how to make a SULHA rather than divide territory... start with this the rest is easier. Me thinks.

Indeependent think we are allowed to sign with a 3rd party who are not Yoshvei Haaretz?

 

[fncceo]

I like it ... but Hamas and PLO will never voluntarily agree to give up the control they have over their local populations. If the sheiks were to create militias to fight the PLO in the West Bank, the situation will quickly degenerate into a Beirut scenario with Israel just trying to contain the spillover of violence into their own territory.

No Jews in the West Bank would be safe from the resulting carnage.

Could the PLO effectively fight local control - especially if democratically elected? Neither PLO nor Hamas are particularly popular among the Palestinians, there just isn't a whole lot of choice.

Both Hamas and the PLO are pretty effective at one thing ... eliminating the competition. Anyone who they deem a threat to their control is immediately accused of being a 'Zionist Sympathizer' and publicly shot to send a message.

Not too many local chieftains or sheiks are going to stand against them.

You might be surprised:

SUMMARY

The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause for concern.


"Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine boycotted the elections on the grounds that they were held in the West Bank and not the Gaza Strip. Hamas refused to hold the elections in Gaza in protest against the Palestinian High Court of Justice’s calling off in September 2016 of the local elections that were scheduled for the next month, as well as in protest of President Mahmoud Abbas’ formation of the Local Elections Court on Jan. 10 without consulting the Palestinian factions....

Yousef Tamiza, a campaign manager for the tribal National Alliance list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. Independent lists won the other three seats.

Nashar said that in many of the West Bank governorates and villages, voters opted for independent and tribal lists because they are tired of the Palestinian parties and their political affiliations, which he said have a negative impact on the interests of citizens. Also, he added, voters have become convinced that partisan lists never implement their electoral programs....

Abdel Sattar Qassem, a professor of political science at An-Najah National University in Nablus, told Al-Monitor that the victory of the tribal lists in many municipal councils in the local elections poses a threat to the Palestinian people because of the return of what he called "tribal reunification" at the expense of the national public interest. He attributed this to the people’s loss of confidence in political parties.

He told Al-Monitor, “There is a great leadership vacuum in the Palestinian arena — both socially and politically — and someone had to fill this vacuum, so families and tribes managed to do so.”

He added, “Tribes are a separatist social structure, not a unitary one. Each family works to preserve its own interests, regardless of the public interest, and this is why a great danger is lurking. Social and political division will come to affect individuals and families in one town, whereas it has been until now only confined to Hamas and Fatah.”

The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

*(the page doesn't exist anymore,however the text above is from that exact article that I've copy-pasted a year ago when it was available post#408)

No one would be happier than me to see Hamas and the PLO lose their stranglehold on the process.

I’m saying I don’t believe they’ll go quietly. It’s gonna be bloody.

 

[rylah]

I like it ... but Hamas and PLO will never voluntarily agree to give up the control they have over their local populations. If the sheiks were to create militias to fight the PLO in the West Bank, the situation will quickly degenerate into a Beirut scenario with Israel just trying to contain the spillover of violence into their own territory.

No Jews in the West Bank would be safe from the resulting carnage.

Could the PLO effectively fight local control - especially if democratically elected? Neither PLO nor Hamas are particularly popular among the Palestinians, there just isn't a whole lot of choice.

Both Hamas and the PLO are pretty effective at one thing ... eliminating the competition. Anyone who they deem a threat to their control is immediately accused of being a 'Zionist Sympathizer' and publicly shot to send a message.

Not too many local chieftains or sheiks are going to stand against them.

You might be surprised:

SUMMARY

The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause for concern.


"Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine boycotted the elections on the grounds that they were held in the West Bank and not the Gaza Strip. Hamas refused to hold the elections in Gaza in protest against the Palestinian High Court of Justice’s calling off in September 2016 of the local elections that were scheduled for the next month, as well as in protest of President Mahmoud Abbas’ formation of the Local Elections Court on Jan. 10 without consulting the Palestinian factions....

Yousef Tamiza, a campaign manager for the tribal National Alliance list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. Independent lists won the other three seats.

Nashar said that in many of the West Bank governorates and villages, voters opted for independent and tribal lists because they are tired of the Palestinian parties and their political affiliations, which he said have a negative impact on the interests of citizens. Also, he added, voters have become convinced that partisan lists never implement their electoral programs....

Abdel Sattar Qassem, a professor of political science at An-Najah National University in Nablus, told Al-Monitor that the victory of the tribal lists in many municipal councils in the local elections poses a threat to the Palestinian people because of the return of what he called "tribal reunification" at the expense of the national public interest. He attributed this to the people’s loss of confidence in political parties.

He told Al-Monitor, “There is a great leadership vacuum in the Palestinian arena — both socially and politically — and someone had to fill this vacuum, so families and tribes managed to do so.”

He added, “Tribes are a separatist social structure, not a unitary one. Each family works to preserve its own interests, regardless of the public interest, and this is why a great danger is lurking. Social and political division will come to affect individuals and families in one town, whereas it has been until now only confined to Hamas and Fatah.”

The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism

*(the page doesn't exist anymore,however the text above is from that exact article that I've copy-pasted a year ago when it was available post#408)

No one would be happier than me to see Hamas and the PLO lose their stranglehold on the process.

I’m saying I don’t believe they’ll go quietly. It’s gonna be bloody.

Yes there can be a small war of independence. But not everywhere, PA is easy with a little help from fellow Arab tribesmen. Gaza can be helped by Egypt.

As long as the aim is independence.

Edit: actually if Ureqat becomes an Emir, Barghouthis get their Emirate, Tamimis establish themselves as the ruling dynasty of of Arab Hebron...there might be no PA left at all to fight.

 

[Indeependent]

Jordan.

That will be the Palestinian state. The rule will be by the GCC.

Would then forceably remove the Palestinians to Jordan?

Arabs will be in charge of the entire 'solution'. They want no idea of a greater Israel so they have allied with Israel. Just watch. Syria is already over. The GCC is far more than anyone had known. Research it. Look to twitter and the Arab posters. It's not hard to see. Israel is not in charge of anything. Neither is the US although Trump is providing strong Arial and kinetic bombardment for the GCC.

Who do you think is fighting down there? I mean, other than the Hezbollah and Iranian losses?

Two weeks ago the US took out a Russian Mercinary attack. They came in with kinetics and killed 200+ Russians who were taken back to Russia in bodybags.

The fight is pretty much over already and it's the Arabs who have won, not the US, although they will profit and so will the Jews as well as the Palestinians who will have an interconnected country which should have been the case before the first partitioning to Jordan.

This is not a Jewish game. This is a GCC game.

Very interesting post.
I don't see Arabs winning Iran, I see Iran reaching out as far as Yemen and Gaza successfully encircling the whole region.

However I agree 200% that it's not a Jewish game directly, I oppose any direct treaties between Jews and Palestinian Arabs, neither us nor them are allowed to sing anything on land issues with each other, that's what any Rabbi or Sheikh will tell You.

If it's directed not as an isolated solution between the 2, but as part of a bigger regional shift maybe it can be done. It's like we're reaching for help in a tribal dispute, to get advice in how to make a SULHA rather than divide territory... start with this the rest is easier. Me thinks.

Indeependent think we are allowed to sign with a 3rd party who are not Yoshvei Haaretz?

In Shemoneh Esrei, the request for building Yerushalayim preceeds the request for the restoration of the Davidic Dynasty.