The Palestinian Emirates "Solution"

[Shazoomx4]

By connecting all the OTHER Palestinian major cities states with access to EACH other and the rest of the Arab world. Build that Trade Corridor RIGHT UP to the Egyptian gate at Gaza and give it 5 years to develop and most of the Gaza residents will forget ALL ABOUT Hamas as "leadership". They'll see the REST of Palestine connected and thriving and will WANT to join the Federation that controls and uses these valuable assets.

In 6 or 8 years, the West Bank City states would have an Airhub. Gaza COULD have a world class seaport. Their attachment to Hamas would weaken and die.

Hamas leaves -- the road goes in.It's only about 50 miles of connector. Commerce and trade begin.

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

It is not the real story

 

[P F Tinmore]

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

It is not the real story

What is incorrect?

 

[flacaltenn]

Lemme just interject here. THe subject of this thread is "the Palestinian Emirates Solution". Because we want every thread to be different -- if anyone wants to argue the history of the situation --- as has been done in this forum 100 times or more already -- take that discussion to a NEW thread. Or one that is kept in the "sticky section" (at the top of the forum listings) on the history of the conflict.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Gaza right now is a patently FAILED state. Need to avoid increasing the failures in this arena..

True, but that is because Israel has stolen, bombed, and bulldozed their stuff.

You really truly don't care about Palestinians -- do you? Don't think you understand this situation all that much. Because you're NOT offering any pretense of solving ACTUAL problems. You're simply here to protest against the very existence of Israel. And THAT boat me lady has sailed long ago... You're virtually irrelevent to reducing any hardships and suffering in that region..

I am here merely to promote Palestinian rights. How can Palestinian rights threaten the existence of Israel?

What is Palestinian rights by your eyes?

The standard list of universal rights.

• The right to self determination without external interference.
• The right to independence and sovereignty.
• The right to territorial integrity.

Nothing special.

 

[Shazoomx4]

Gaza right now is a patently FAILED state. Need to avoid increasing the failures in this arena..

True, but that is because Israel has stolen, bombed, and bulldozed their stuff.

You really truly don't care about Palestinians -- do you? Don't think you understand this situation all that much. Because you're NOT offering any pretense of solving ACTUAL problems. You're simply here to protest against the very existence of Israel. And THAT boat me lady has sailed long ago... You're virtually irrelevent to reducing any hardships and suffering in that region..

I am here merely to promote Palestinian rights. How can Palestinian rights threaten the existence of Israel?

What is Palestinian rights by your eyes?

The standard list of universal rights.

• The right to self determination without external interference.
• The right to independence and sovereignty.
• The right to territorial integrity.

Nothing special.

I was fine with it if it has not come and overridden my standard rights

 

[P F Tinmore]

True, but that is because Israel has stolen, bombed, and bulldozed their stuff.

You really truly don't care about Palestinians -- do you? Don't think you understand this situation all that much. Because you're NOT offering any pretense of solving ACTUAL problems. You're simply here to protest against the very existence of Israel. And THAT boat me lady has sailed long ago... You're virtually irrelevent to reducing any hardships and suffering in that region..

I am here merely to promote Palestinian rights. How can Palestinian rights threaten the existence of Israel?

What is Palestinian rights by your eyes?

The standard list of universal rights.

• The right to self determination without external interference.
• The right to independence and sovereignty.
• The right to territorial integrity.

Nothing special.

I was fine with it if it has not come and overridden my standard rights

Israel does not have the right to violate the rights of the Palestinians. The plan in the OP would violate all of them.

 

[Shazoomx4]

You really truly don't care about Palestinians -- do you? Don't think you understand this situation all that much. Because you're NOT offering any pretense of solving ACTUAL problems. You're simply here to protest against the very existence of Israel. And THAT boat me lady has sailed long ago... You're virtually irrelevent to reducing any hardships and suffering in that region..

I am here merely to promote Palestinian rights. How can Palestinian rights threaten the existence of Israel?

What is Palestinian rights by your eyes?

The standard list of universal rights.

• The right to self determination without external interference.
• The right to independence and sovereignty.
• The right to territorial integrity.

Nothing special.

I was fine with it if it has not come and overridden my standard rights

Israel does not have the right to violate the rights of the Palestinians. The plan in the OP would violate all of them.

If they want to take the right of me, I have the right to not give them this option...

 

[P F Tinmore]

I am here merely to promote Palestinian rights. How can Palestinian rights threaten the existence of Israel?

What is Palestinian rights by your eyes?

The standard list of universal rights.

• The right to self determination without external interference.
• The right to independence and sovereignty.
• The right to territorial integrity.

Nothing special.

I was fine with it if it has not come and overridden my standard rights

Israel does not have the right to violate the rights of the Palestinians. The plan in the OP would violate all of them.

If they want to take the right of me, I have the right to not give them this option...

Equal rights for the Palestinians will not deny the rights of the Jews.

 

[Shazoomx4]

What is Palestinian rights by your eyes?

The standard list of universal rights.

• The right to self determination without external interference.
• The right to independence and sovereignty.
• The right to territorial integrity.

Nothing special.

I was fine with it if it has not come and overridden my standard rights

Israel does not have the right to violate the rights of the Palestinians. The plan in the OP would violate all of them.

If they want to take the right of me, I have the right to not give them this option...

Equal rights for the Palestinians will not deny the rights of the Jews.

Yes, it is, It means full control all over 67 lines and more, It means more wars for Israel, It means Gaza 2 just much bigger and closer to the center of Israel, It mean Nitghmear or death and kills in Israel...

While this Palestinians keeps behaving like they do Isreal cannot allow to itself this death bath...

 

[Hollie]

I was fine with it if it has not come and overridden my standard rights

Israel does not have the right to violate the rights of the Palestinians. The plan in the OP would violate all of them.

If they want to take the right of me, I have the right to not give them this option...

Equal rights for the Palestinians will not deny the rights of the Jews.

Nonsense.

Like so many islamists, I don’t believe you have any real sense of islamist history and the damage it has caused. See, it should be a dead giveaway to anybody with a reason to challenge islamist dogma that any religion which is utterly obsessed with war against anyone who doesn't buy into its supremacist ideology (and which can support those bellicose, supremacist claims with ample prescriptive scripture) is a flawed and dangerous religion indeed. Seriously, it really should.

Off topic rant.

Your hurt feelings are your own to deal with.

The Emirates Solution has a number of positive atttrubutes but ultimately has some likely, unresolvable flaws. One of which is the core solution of establishing many tribes as governing bodies for the various city-states. I think history is pretty clear that tribal rivalries tend to lead to hostilities as we see is the case with Hamas and Fatah. We saw those tribal rivalries emerge after the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. We see that dynamic of Islamic clerics and their tribes seeking power played out across the Islamist Middle East.

 

[Coyote]

Hamas fears the Emirate Plan is becoming a reality

So, I just glanced over that article, but it immediately struck me how much they place responsibility on Israel for this plan becoming a reality rather than on the Arab Palestinians and their lack of unity.

Israel is the one decisively in control of the region and by far the greater military and political power. If they can ignore international law and take Jerusalem in entirety then they clearly can take on the role of greater responsibility and should. The lack of unity is exactly why a solution like this might be better. Can you force unity on people who’s loyalties and ties might be more regional then national and national leadership is defined by corruption?

 

[Coyote]

True, but that is because Israel has stolen, bombed, and bulldozed their stuff.

You really truly don't care about Palestinians -- do you? Don't think you understand this situation all that much. Because you're NOT offering any pretense of solving ACTUAL problems. You're simply here to protest against the very existence of Israel. And THAT boat me lady has sailed long ago... You're virtually irrelevent to reducing any hardships and suffering in that region..

I am here merely to promote Palestinian rights. How can Palestinian rights threaten the existence of Israel?

What is Palestinian rights by your eyes?

The standard list of universal rights.

• The right to self determination without external interference.
• The right to independence and sovereignty.
• The right to territorial integrity.

Nothing special.

I was fine with it if it has not come and overridden my standard rights

Shazoom, how would an emeritus solution effect your rights?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Hamas fears the Emirate Plan is becoming a reality

So, I just glanced over that article, but it immediately struck me how much they place responsibility on Israel for this plan becoming a reality rather than on the Arab Palestinians and their lack of unity.

Israel is the one decisively in control of the region and by far the greater military and political power. If they can ignore international law and take Jerusalem in entirety then they clearly can take on the role of greater responsibility and should. The lack of unity is exactly why a solution like this might be better. Can you force unity on people who’s loyalties and ties might be more regional then national and national leadership is defined by corruption?

The loyalty involved is not based upon region, but upon blood.

The two overlap to some degree, but Palestinians are very inbred and clan supersedes all else.

 

[Shazoomx4]

You really truly don't care about Palestinians -- do you? Don't think you understand this situation all that much. Because you're NOT offering any pretense of solving ACTUAL problems. You're simply here to protest against the very existence of Israel. And THAT boat me lady has sailed long ago... You're virtually irrelevent to reducing any hardships and suffering in that region..

I am here merely to promote Palestinian rights. How can Palestinian rights threaten the existence of Israel?

What is Palestinian rights by your eyes?

The standard list of universal rights.

• The right to self determination without external interference.
• The right to independence and sovereignty.
• The right to territorial integrity.

Nothing special.

I was fine with it if it has not come and overridden my standard rights

Shazoom, how would an emeritus solution effect your rights?

Hamas fears the Emirate Plan is becoming a reality

So, I just glanced over that article, but it immediately struck me how much they place responsibility on Israel for this plan becoming a reality rather than on the Arab Palestinians and their lack of unity.

Israel is the one decisively in control of the region and by far the greater military and political power. If they can ignore international law and take Jerusalem in entirety then they clearly can take on the role of greater responsibility and should. The lack of unity is exactly why a solution like this might be better. Can you force unity on people who’s loyalties and ties might be more regional then national and national leadership is defined by corruption?

The loyalty involved is not based upon region, but upon blood.

The two overlap to some degree, but Palestinians are very inbred and clan supersedes all else.

My

You really truly don't care about Palestinians -- do you? Don't think you understand this situation all that much. Because you're NOT offering any pretense of solving ACTUAL problems. You're simply here to protest against the very existence of Israel. And THAT boat me lady has sailed long ago... You're virtually irrelevent to reducing any hardships and suffering in that region..

I am here merely to promote Palestinian rights. How can Palestinian rights threaten the existence of Israel?

What is Palestinian rights by your eyes?

The standard list of universal rights.

• The right to self determination without external interference.
• The right to independence and sovereignty.
• The right to territorial integrity.

Nothing special.

I was fine with it if it has not come and overridden my standard rights

Shazoom, how would an emeritus solution effect your rights?

Well, my right is to be safe...
So it effect this right

 

[Coyote]

I am here merely to promote Palestinian rights. How can Palestinian rights threaten the existence of Israel?

What is Palestinian rights by your eyes?

The standard list of universal rights.

• The right to self determination without external interference.
• The right to independence and sovereignty.
• The right to territorial integrity.

Nothing special.

I was fine with it if it has not come and overridden my standard rights

Shazoom, how would an emeritus solution effect your rights?

Hamas fears the Emirate Plan is becoming a reality

So, I just glanced over that article, but it immediately struck me how much they place responsibility on Israel for this plan becoming a reality rather than on the Arab Palestinians and their lack of unity.

Israel is the one decisively in control of the region and by far the greater military and political power. If they can ignore international law and take Jerusalem in entirety then they clearly can take on the role of greater responsibility and should. The lack of unity is exactly why a solution like this might be better. Can you force unity on people who’s loyalties and ties might be more regional then national and national leadership is defined by corruption?

The loyalty involved is not based upon region, but upon blood.

The two overlap to some degree, but Palestinians are very inbred and clan supersedes all else.

My

I am here merely to promote Palestinian rights. How can Palestinian rights threaten the existence of Israel?

What is Palestinian rights by your eyes?

The standard list of universal rights.

• The right to self determination without external interference.
• The right to independence and sovereignty.
• The right to territorial integrity.

Nothing special.

I was fine with it if it has not come and overridden my standard rights

Shazoom, how would an emeritus solution effect your rights?

Well, my right is to be safe...
So it effect this right

In what way? What alternative would you suggest?

 

[Coyote]

Hamas fears the Emirate Plan is becoming a reality

So, I just glanced over that article, but it immediately struck me how much they place responsibility on Israel for this plan becoming a reality rather than on the Arab Palestinians and their lack of unity.

Israel is the one decisively in control of the region and by far the greater military and political power. If they can ignore international law and take Jerusalem in entirety then they clearly can take on the role of greater responsibility and should. The lack of unity is exactly why a solution like this might be better. Can you force unity on people who’s loyalties and ties might be more regional then national and national leadership is defined by corruption?

The loyalty involved is not based upon region, but upon blood.

The two overlap to some degree, but Palestinians are very inbred and clan supersedes all else.

Out of curiosity, do you think an emeritus so,Union might be viable?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Hamas fears the Emirate Plan is becoming a reality

So, I just glanced over that article, but it immediately struck me how much they place responsibility on Israel for this plan becoming a reality rather than on the Arab Palestinians and their lack of unity.

Israel is the one decisively in control of the region and by far the greater military and political power. If they can ignore international law and take Jerusalem in entirety then they clearly can take on the role of greater responsibility and should. The lack of unity is exactly why a solution like this might be better. Can you force unity on people who’s loyalties and ties might be more regional then national and national leadership is defined by corruption?

The loyalty involved is not based upon region, but upon blood.

The two overlap to some degree, but Palestinians are very inbred and clan supersedes all else.

Out of curiosity, do you think an emeritus so,Union might be viable?

Might be, yes.

 

[Shazoomx4]

Hamas fears the Emirate Plan is becoming a reality

So, I just glanced over that article, but it immediately struck me how much they place responsibility on Israel for this plan becoming a reality rather than on the Arab Palestinians and their lack of unity.

Israel is the one decisively in control of the region and by far the greater military and political power. If they can ignore international law and take Jerusalem in entirety then they clearly can take on the role of greater responsibility and should. The lack of unity is exactly why a solution like this might be better. Can you force unity on people who’s loyalties and ties might be more regional then national and national leadership is defined by corruption?

The loyalty involved is not based upon region, but upon blood.

The two overlap to some degree, but Palestinians are very inbred and clan supersedes all else.

Out of curiosity, do you think an emeritus so,Union might be viable?

First, they have to show that they want peace and not war

 

[P F Tinmore]

Hamas fears the Emirate Plan is becoming a reality

So, I just glanced over that article, but it immediately struck me how much they place responsibility on Israel for this plan becoming a reality rather than on the Arab Palestinians and their lack of unity.

Israel is the one decisively in control of the region and by far the greater military and political power. If they can ignore international law and take Jerusalem in entirety then they clearly can take on the role of greater responsibility and should. The lack of unity is exactly why a solution like this might be better. Can you force unity on people who’s loyalties and ties might be more regional then national and national leadership is defined by corruption?

The loyalty involved is not based upon region, but upon blood.

The two overlap to some degree, but Palestinians are very inbred and clan supersedes all else.

Out of curiosity, do you think an emeritus so,Union might be viable?

First, they have to show that they want peace and not war

I don't think the Palestinians will accept a bantustan solution.

 

[Coyote]

So, I just glanced over that article, but it immediately struck me how much they place responsibility on Israel for this plan becoming a reality rather than on the Arab Palestinians and their lack of unity.

Israel is the one decisively in control of the region and by far the greater military and political power. If they can ignore international law and take Jerusalem in entirety then they clearly can take on the role of greater responsibility and should. The lack of unity is exactly why a solution like this might be better. Can you force unity on people who’s loyalties and ties might be more regional then national and national leadership is defined by corruption?

The loyalty involved is not based upon region, but upon blood.

The two overlap to some degree, but Palestinians are very inbred and clan supersedes all else.

Out of curiosity, do you think an emeritus so,Union might be viable?

First, they have to show that they want peace and not war

I don't think the Palestinians will accept a bantustan solution.

Unlike the Bantustans no Palestinians would be foeced to live there, no forced population transfers. They would autonomous like the Vatican I would think.