The Palestinian Emirates "Solution"

[P F Tinmore]

Some grow partially their own, all of them import.
Q. Which country today is not dependent on another for constant supply of food?
Don't Ramallah and Gaza already export for decades?

Indeed, that is the neoliberal model that is being imposed on countries all over the world.

This is the first time I hear of this term, from a short read it says it's a western term, has changed its' meaning a couple of times among different people. Not all western terms are relevant to the middle eastern societies.

How is this relevant?

In this case I am talking about food security. A people must have control of their food sources. Palestine used to export food. Now it imports food. How and why did that happen?

Control oil and you can control countries. Control food and you can control people ~ Henry Kissenger

This is explained fairly well in the video I posted. Perhaps you should watch it again with these thoughts in mind.

Palestine always imported and circulated goods from around the world.
Israel imports from Gaza among many.


Q. When one uses the "control of food", do You imagine a bubble where there's no import of food? Show me an example of an economy that works like that.

Straw man.

 

[rylah]

Some grow partially their own, all of them import.
Q. Which country today is not dependent on another for constant supply of food?
Don't Ramallah and Gaza already export for decades?

Indeed, that is the neoliberal model that is being imposed on countries all over the world.

This is the first time I hear of this term, from a short read it says it's a western term, has changed its' meaning a couple of times among different people. Not all western terms are relevant to the middle eastern societies.

How is this relevant?

In this case I am talking about food security. A people must have control of their food sources. Palestine used to export food. Now it imports food. How and why did that happen?

Control oil and you can control countries. Control food and you can control people ~ Henry Kissenger

This is explained fairly well in the video I posted. Perhaps you should watch it again with these thoughts in mind.

Palestine always imported and circulated goods from around the world.
Israel imports from Gaza among many.


Q. When one uses the "control of food", do You imagine a bubble where there's no import of food? Show me an example of an economy that works like that.

Straw man.

I think You've got entangled in self contradiction.
Address that first before attempting to engage in a conversation.

If You still can't bring up an example , then You don't know what You're talking about.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indeed, that is the neoliberal model that is being imposed on countries all over the world.

This is the first time I hear of this term, from a short read it says it's a western term, has changed its' meaning a couple of times among different people. Not all western terms are relevant to the middle eastern societies.

How is this relevant?

In this case I am talking about food security. A people must have control of their food sources. Palestine used to export food. Now it imports food. How and why did that happen?

Control oil and you can control countries. Control food and you can control people ~ Henry Kissenger

This is explained fairly well in the video I posted. Perhaps you should watch it again with these thoughts in mind.

Palestine always imported and circulated goods from around the world.
Israel imports from Gaza among many.


Q. When one uses the "control of food", do You imagine a bubble where there's no import of food? Show me an example of an economy that works like that.

Straw man.

I think You've got entangled in self contradiction.
Address that first before attempting to engage in a conversation.

If You still can't bring up an example , then You don't know what You're talking about.

Irrelevant question.

 

[rylah]

This is the first time I hear of this term, from a short read it says it's a western term, has changed its' meaning a couple of times among different people. Not all western terms are relevant to the middle eastern societies.

How is this relevant?

In this case I am talking about food security. A people must have control of their food sources. Palestine used to export food. Now it imports food. How and why did that happen?

Control oil and you can control countries. Control food and you can control people ~ Henry Kissenger

This is explained fairly well in the video I posted. Perhaps you should watch it again with these thoughts in mind.

Palestine always imported and circulated goods from around the world.
Israel imports from Gaza among many.


Q. When one uses the "control of food", do You imagine a bubble where there's no import of food? Show me an example of an economy that works like that.

Straw man.

I think You've got entangled in self contradiction.
Address that first before attempting to engage in a conversation.

If You still can't bring up an example , then You don't know what You're talking about.

Irrelevant question.

More like another evident failure at argument against the Emirate idea.

You've attempted to derail the thread and now shut the conversation because facts don't sing that song. The question is more than relevant - You've made the claim, now prove it.

 

[rylah]

Do you all recognize the significance of creating such a Trade Route in the Levant? It benefits ALL the neighbors. Jordan would be greatly boosted connected by 4 or 5 hour truck traffic to an Med port.

It's almost irresistible unless you HATE trade, prosperity, and jobs. And maybe Hamas does -- but not the rest of the region..

My question is not the route. My question is who can slam the doors?

Question would be for what valid REASONS can ANY of the nations connected to this --- slam the doors?

I suppose all that would be agreed upon by Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and whatever "federation" the Palestine City States wanted to create. Would be up to the Palestinians who belongs in the "federation" and can benefit as long as the group Administrating the route agree to provide security services.

I doubt Egypt, Israel, Jordan would have issues sharing security, maintenance, customs roles. In FACT, if GAZA had a port connected to this -- It could EASILY be staffed at customs with Jordanians, or Egyptians or at some point Palestinians. If they ever got their act together enough to FORM an Internationally recognized Customs agency.

Why don't you go help them do that??

Everything into and out of the West Bank and Gaza is controlled by Israel. How would this system remove that control?

By connecting all the OTHER Palestinian major cities states with access to EACH other and the rest of the Arab world. Build that Trade Corridor RIGHT UP to the Egyptian gate at Gaza and give it 5 years to develop and most of the Gaza residents will forget ALL ABOUT Hamas as "leadership". They'll see the REST of Palestine connected and thriving and will WANT to join the Federation that controls and uses these valuable assets.

In 6 or 8 years, the West Bank City states would have an Airhub. Gaza COULD have a world class seaport. Their attachment to Hamas would weaken and die.

Hamas leaves -- the road goes in.It's only about 50 miles of connector. Commerce and trade begin.

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

 

[P F Tinmore]

My question is not the route. My question is who can slam the doors?

Question would be for what valid REASONS can ANY of the nations connected to this --- slam the doors?

I suppose all that would be agreed upon by Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and whatever "federation" the Palestine City States wanted to create. Would be up to the Palestinians who belongs in the "federation" and can benefit as long as the group Administrating the route agree to provide security services.

I doubt Egypt, Israel, Jordan would have issues sharing security, maintenance, customs roles. In FACT, if GAZA had a port connected to this -- It could EASILY be staffed at customs with Jordanians, or Egyptians or at some point Palestinians. If they ever got their act together enough to FORM an Internationally recognized Customs agency.

Why don't you go help them do that??

Everything into and out of the West Bank and Gaza is controlled by Israel. How would this system remove that control?

By connecting all the OTHER Palestinian major cities states with access to EACH other and the rest of the Arab world. Build that Trade Corridor RIGHT UP to the Egyptian gate at Gaza and give it 5 years to develop and most of the Gaza residents will forget ALL ABOUT Hamas as "leadership". They'll see the REST of Palestine connected and thriving and will WANT to join the Federation that controls and uses these valuable assets.

In 6 or 8 years, the West Bank City states would have an Airhub. Gaza COULD have a world class seaport. Their attachment to Hamas would weaken and die.

Hamas leaves -- the road goes in.It's only about 50 miles of connector. Commerce and trade begin.

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

 

[rylah]

Question would be for what valid REASONS can ANY of the nations connected to this --- slam the doors?

I suppose all that would be agreed upon by Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and whatever "federation" the Palestine City States wanted to create. Would be up to the Palestinians who belongs in the "federation" and can benefit as long as the group Administrating the route agree to provide security services.

I doubt Egypt, Israel, Jordan would have issues sharing security, maintenance, customs roles. In FACT, if GAZA had a port connected to this -- It could EASILY be staffed at customs with Jordanians, or Egyptians or at some point Palestinians. If they ever got their act together enough to FORM an Internationally recognized Customs agency.

Why don't you go help them do that??

Everything into and out of the West Bank and Gaza is controlled by Israel. How would this system remove that control?

By connecting all the OTHER Palestinian major cities states with access to EACH other and the rest of the Arab world. Build that Trade Corridor RIGHT UP to the Egyptian gate at Gaza and give it 5 years to develop and most of the Gaza residents will forget ALL ABOUT Hamas as "leadership". They'll see the REST of Palestine connected and thriving and will WANT to join the Federation that controls and uses these valuable assets.

In 6 or 8 years, the West Bank City states would have an Airhub. Gaza COULD have a world class seaport. Their attachment to Hamas would weaken and die.

Hamas leaves -- the road goes in.It's only about 50 miles of connector. Commerce and trade begin.

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

 

[flacaltenn]

Question would be for what valid REASONS can ANY of the nations connected to this --- slam the doors?

I suppose all that would be agreed upon by Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and whatever "federation" the Palestine City States wanted to create. Would be up to the Palestinians who belongs in the "federation" and can benefit as long as the group Administrating the route agree to provide security services.

I doubt Egypt, Israel, Jordan would have issues sharing security, maintenance, customs roles. In FACT, if GAZA had a port connected to this -- It could EASILY be staffed at customs with Jordanians, or Egyptians or at some point Palestinians. If they ever got their act together enough to FORM an Internationally recognized Customs agency.

Why don't you go help them do that??

Everything into and out of the West Bank and Gaza is controlled by Israel. How would this system remove that control?

By connecting all the OTHER Palestinian major cities states with access to EACH other and the rest of the Arab world. Build that Trade Corridor RIGHT UP to the Egyptian gate at Gaza and give it 5 years to develop and most of the Gaza residents will forget ALL ABOUT Hamas as "leadership". They'll see the REST of Palestine connected and thriving and will WANT to join the Federation that controls and uses these valuable assets.

In 6 or 8 years, the West Bank City states would have an Airhub. Gaza COULD have a world class seaport. Their attachment to Hamas would weaken and die.

Hamas leaves -- the road goes in.It's only about 50 miles of connector. Commerce and trade begin.

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

 

[flacaltenn]

Everything into and out of the West Bank and Gaza is controlled by Israel. How would this system remove that control?

By connecting all the OTHER Palestinian major cities states with access to EACH other and the rest of the Arab world. Build that Trade Corridor RIGHT UP to the Egyptian gate at Gaza and give it 5 years to develop and most of the Gaza residents will forget ALL ABOUT Hamas as "leadership". They'll see the REST of Palestine connected and thriving and will WANT to join the Federation that controls and uses these valuable assets.

In 6 or 8 years, the West Bank City states would have an Airhub. Gaza COULD have a world class seaport. Their attachment to Hamas would weaken and die.

Hamas leaves -- the road goes in.It's only about 50 miles of connector. Commerce and trade begin.

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Fabulous Rylah. A lot of insight Dr. Kedar has that I lack. I now understand WHY he choose those "emirates" based on his better understanding of the ACTUAL tribal backgrounds of those true Palestinians. Makes sense. Except that NEW allegiances and family ties have been established since 1948 in addition to the ANCIENT tribal ties that should be recognized. And he's COMPLETELY correct that this is the "PROBLEM SOLVING" approach to make a lasting peace with the Palestinians. You just have to get the neighboring countries to ASSIST and give them incentives for donating land and infrastructure to tie all that together. And NOT make it solely Israel's sole responsibility for CREATING it..

 

[flacaltenn]

Everything into and out of the West Bank and Gaza is controlled by Israel. How would this system remove that control?

By connecting all the OTHER Palestinian major cities states with access to EACH other and the rest of the Arab world. Build that Trade Corridor RIGHT UP to the Egyptian gate at Gaza and give it 5 years to develop and most of the Gaza residents will forget ALL ABOUT Hamas as "leadership". They'll see the REST of Palestine connected and thriving and will WANT to join the Federation that controls and uses these valuable assets.

In 6 or 8 years, the West Bank City states would have an Airhub. Gaza COULD have a world class seaport. Their attachment to Hamas would weaken and die.

Hamas leaves -- the road goes in.It's only about 50 miles of connector. Commerce and trade begin.

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Since it's your thread Coyote and your interest, here is info in the last pages that should be very interesting to you..

 

[P F Tinmore]

Everything into and out of the West Bank and Gaza is controlled by Israel. How would this system remove that control?

By connecting all the OTHER Palestinian major cities states with access to EACH other and the rest of the Arab world. Build that Trade Corridor RIGHT UP to the Egyptian gate at Gaza and give it 5 years to develop and most of the Gaza residents will forget ALL ABOUT Hamas as "leadership". They'll see the REST of Palestine connected and thriving and will WANT to join the Federation that controls and uses these valuable assets.

In 6 or 8 years, the West Bank City states would have an Airhub. Gaza COULD have a world class seaport. Their attachment to Hamas would weaken and die.

Hamas leaves -- the road goes in.It's only about 50 miles of connector. Commerce and trade begin.

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

 

[flacaltenn]

By connecting all the OTHER Palestinian major cities states with access to EACH other and the rest of the Arab world. Build that Trade Corridor RIGHT UP to the Egyptian gate at Gaza and give it 5 years to develop and most of the Gaza residents will forget ALL ABOUT Hamas as "leadership". They'll see the REST of Palestine connected and thriving and will WANT to join the Federation that controls and uses these valuable assets.

In 6 or 8 years, the West Bank City states would have an Airhub. Gaza COULD have a world class seaport. Their attachment to Hamas would weaken and die.

Hamas leaves -- the road goes in.It's only about 50 miles of connector. Commerce and trade begin.

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Then you're not listening with both ears. I talked about the refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon and how these 2 countries who have NEVER addressed their "palestinian gulags" would be encouraged to swap their refugee camps for NEW LAND adjacent to the Trade corridor. New self-governed land that was NEVER before on the peace negotiation table in which these folks could UNIFY with the occupied territority Palis. . Plenty of incentives in the plan for those countries to DO SO and rid themselves of the blight and oppression that they are imposing on the "other Palestinians" that you CLAIM you care about.

 

[P F Tinmore]

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Then you're not listening with both ears. I talked about the refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon and how these 2 countries who have NEVER addressed their "palestinian gulags" would be encouraged to swap their refugee camps for NEW LAND adjacent to the Trade corridor. New land that was NEVER before on the peace negotiation table. Plenty of incentives in the plan for them to DO SO and rid themselves of the blight and oppression that they are imposing on the "other Palestinians" that you CLAIM you care about.

So you want other countries to make up for what Israel has stolen?

 

[flacaltenn]

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Then you're not listening with both ears. I talked about the refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon and how these 2 countries who have NEVER addressed their "palestinian gulags" would be encouraged to swap their refugee camps for NEW LAND adjacent to the Trade corridor. New land that was NEVER before on the peace negotiation table. Plenty of incentives in the plan for them to DO SO and rid themselves of the blight and oppression that they are imposing on the "other Palestinians" that you CLAIM you care about.

So you want other countries to make up for what Israel has stolen?

So you want those walled and isolated prison camps to REMAIN?

Cool the rhetoric down. It helps NOTHING to be achieved or resolved.

YES -- I want the immediate neighbors INVOLVED and INVESTED in the Palestinians MORE than Israel is involved and invested in a solution. THat's common sense. And the NEW land is NOT because Israel stole anything from them. It's to create a FUNCTIONAL and prosperous area for them to be re-united.

 

[flacaltenn]

By connecting all the OTHER Palestinian major cities states with access to EACH other and the rest of the Arab world. Build that Trade Corridor RIGHT UP to the Egyptian gate at Gaza and give it 5 years to develop and most of the Gaza residents will forget ALL ABOUT Hamas as "leadership". They'll see the REST of Palestine connected and thriving and will WANT to join the Federation that controls and uses these valuable assets.

In 6 or 8 years, the West Bank City states would have an Airhub. Gaza COULD have a world class seaport. Their attachment to Hamas would weaken and die.

Hamas leaves -- the road goes in.It's only about 50 miles of connector. Commerce and trade begin.

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Gaza right now is a patently FAILED state. Need to avoid increasing the failures in this arena..

 

[P F Tinmore]

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Gaza right now is a patently FAILED state. Need to avoid increasing the failures in this arena..

True, but that is because Israel has stolen, bombed, and bulldozed their stuff.

 

[flacaltenn]

Bethlehem is not discussed.
Although Dr. Kedar does mention surrounding villages to be incorporated into the Emirates.
It depends on the local leaders, tribal distribution, and their own acceptance of others.

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Gaza right now is a patently FAILED state. Need to avoid increasing the failures in this arena..

True, but that is because Israel has stolen, bombed, and bulldozed their stuff.

You really truly don't care about Palestinians -- do you? Don't think you understand this situation all that much. Because you're NOT offering any pretense of solving ACTUAL problems. You're simply here to protest against the very existence of Israel. And THAT boat me lady has sailed long ago... You're virtually irrelevent to reducing any hardships and suffering in that region..

 

[P F Tinmore]

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Then you're not listening with both ears. I talked about the refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon and how these 2 countries who have NEVER addressed their "palestinian gulags" would be encouraged to swap their refugee camps for NEW LAND adjacent to the Trade corridor. New land that was NEVER before on the peace negotiation table. Plenty of incentives in the plan for them to DO SO and rid themselves of the blight and oppression that they are imposing on the "other Palestinians" that you CLAIM you care about.

So you want other countries to make up for what Israel has stolen?

So you want those walled and isolated prison camps to REMAIN?

Cool the rhetoric down. It helps NOTHING to be achieved or resolved.

YES -- I want the immediate neighbors INVOLVED and INVESTED in the Palestinians MORE than Israel is involved and invested in a solution. THat's common sense. And the NEW land is NOT because Israel stole anything from them. It's to create a FUNCTIONAL and prosperous area for them to be re-united.

Nice deflection.

How is this not a bantustan solution?

 

[P F Tinmore]

There are a lit of places not mentioned. What will happen to them?

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Gaza right now is a patently FAILED state. Need to avoid increasing the failures in this arena..

True, but that is because Israel has stolen, bombed, and bulldozed their stuff.

You really truly don't care about Palestinians -- do you? Don't think you understand this situation all that much. Because you're NOT offering any pretense of solving ACTUAL problems. You're simply here to protest against the very existence of Israel. And THAT boat me lady has sailed long ago... You're virtually irrelevent to reducing any hardships and suffering in that region..

I am here merely to promote Palestinian rights. How can Palestinian rights threaten the existence of Israel?

 

[Shazoomx4]

Dr. Kedar only has the beginning of an actual plan. His major contribution to this idea is RATIONALE for not expecting the Palestinians to organize a NATIONAL govt and to prefer a more "bottom up" localized govt control. He's entirely correct on this analysis and he lists all the reasons WHY it's been a problem for "Palestinian Unity". Even the current LEADERS of Gaza and West Bank KNOW this is true.

He tossed out a general plan for "city centers" and made a map. Not very much past that. But he DID allude to connectivity between the centers and the neighboring settlements. And called for more roads to be SHARED between Palis and Israelis to MAKE those connections.

The PROBLEM IS -- Dr Kedar has not made a lot of headway because he has a GENUINE bias towards the best interests of Israel. He says so in his proposals. And by doing that - he jettisoned his credibility as a "peace-maker". AND branded the City State idea as "an Israeli" plan.

In reality -- you DO need to include more autonomous Pali cities and settlements (like Bethlehem) to make this work. And you DO need to worry much MUCH MORE about the connectivity between them.. EVEN the POTENTIAL connectivity between these autonomous governing areas in the West Bank and Gaza - which Kedar mostly ignores. When Gaza is READY to govern in a way where that connectivity CAN be established. The highway should be visible to the Gazans from the Rafah gate at Egypt. A reminder of what they COULD have without Hamas as THEIR "autonomous govt".

What I'm proposing not only expands the charter for autonomy to more of Pali living centers, but it ADDS connectivity of those places to the whole Levant neighborhood. With buy-ins from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon including help in constructions and infrastructure for a trade route which places the Palestinians in the smack middle of it all. WITHOUT major compromises to the security of Israelis. Possibly including a bit more LAND from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon that "Palestine" never expected to have. This eventually could repair some of the great damage done by the former "empires" that ruined the connectivity and commerce in that region. So when there is a stable Iraq and Syria without a huge Iranian proxy presence -- these also could become a trading zone partners that boost the opportunies and economic dreams of every baker, shoemaker, farmer, and clothing maker in the region.

Israel as well could elect to trade on this route and connectivity. Largely up to them what access they are comfortable with providing.

I still see bantustans living off of foreign aid. And I see nothing for the majority of Palestinians who do not live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Gaza right now is a patently FAILED state. Need to avoid increasing the failures in this arena..

True, but that is because Israel has stolen, bombed, and bulldozed their stuff.

You really truly don't care about Palestinians -- do you? Don't think you understand this situation all that much. Because you're NOT offering any pretense of solving ACTUAL problems. You're simply here to protest against the very existence of Israel. And THAT boat me lady has sailed long ago... You're virtually irrelevent to reducing any hardships and suffering in that region..

I am here merely to promote Palestinian rights. How can Palestinian rights threaten the existence of Israel?

What is Palestinian rights by your eyes?