The only certainty in life is that we are going to die

[Blackrook]

The only certainty in life is that we are going to die. Some die in the womb, some die at the moment of birth, some die in childhood, some die in young adulthood, some die in middle-age, some die when they are old, but all of us, eventually, die.

And that presents us with a problem.

Because none of us knows, for certain, what happens after that.

Yes, it is true that there are people with near death experiences ("NDE") who tell us they died, wandered around the operating room, met their dead family and friends, and then came back, but there is no certainty in these stories. They could be genuine spiritual experiences, but they could be the by-products of brain death, illusions that a dying brain experiences as it shuts down. I do not know what to believe myself, so I do not put much stock in NDE stories as proof of the afterlife.

We have the Bible, and all its miracle stories, but there are many who don't believe in the Bible, and don't believe in miracles, and think that stories that are more than 2000 years old can't possibly be relevant in the modern world.

For Catholics, we have stories of the saints and the martyrs, and many tales of miracles that have occurred up to the modern age, but finding actual proof of these stories requires us to believe the truthfulness of the witnesses, and there are those who will say it is all just lies told by the Catholic Church to keep the faithful believing.

My personal belief in a God who created the universe is based on a notion that it is more logical to believe in a force that created all we see and experience, than to believe that all we see and experience somehow came into being by itself. The only way to believe there is no God is to believe the universe was always here, but scientists believe the universe was not always here, there was a point before time began when the universe did not exist. This is called the "Big Bang Theory" and I think if one believes in that theory, it becomes pretty inevitable to believe there is a God.

But believing in a God who created the universe does nothing to show that the God revealed in the Bible to Abraham, and revealed to be all-loving and merciful by Christ, is the real God. Observing the way nature works, and the mercilessness with which animals prey on animals, with the way humans treat other humans, and weather and disease kills randomly, it would be easier to believe in a God that does not care about his creation, and is rather indifferent to our suffering.

And I think this believe in an impersonal God is deism, and I think that that kind of God is the only thing we can prove using logic and reason alone.

To believe in the loving and personal God taught to us by Christ, it takes something more: faith.

And what is faith, it's a willingness to believe in something you cannot prove to be true.

And that is the quandry Christians find themselves in when atheists demand proof for God.

We cannot give you proof. If there was proof of God, you would no longer have faith, but faith is what's required to have redemption and forgiveness of sins. Once God proves himself, it is no longer possible to ask forgiveness for anything you've done, because your motives are no longer genuine, all you're doing is surrendering to a superior will. Once you know for certain there is a God, you will be so bent by that knowledge that you will lack free will.

And that is why God does not show himself, at least not in the obvious way that atheists would demand.

 

[Blackrook]

guno, there is nothing funny about what I posted. I know you are incapable of reason, like a two-year-old child, so I will forgive you.

 

[emilynghiem]

The only certainty in life is that we are going to die. Some die in the womb, some die at the moment of birth, some die in childhood, some die in young adulthood, some die in middle-age, some die when they are old, but all of us, eventually, die.

And that presents us with a problem.

Because none of us knows, for certain, what happens after that.

Yes, it is true that there are people with near death experiences ("NDE") who tell us they died, wandered around the operating room, met their dead family and friends, and then came back, but there is no certainty in these stories. They could be genuine spiritual experiences, but they could be the by-products of brain death, illusions that a dying brain experiences as it shuts down. I do not know what to believe myself, so I do not put much stock in NDE stories as proof of the afterlife.

We have the Bible, and all its miracle stories, but there are many who don't believe in the Bible, and don't believe in miracles, and think that stories that are more than 2000 years old can't possibly be relevant in the modern world.

For Catholics, we have stories of the saints and the martyrs, and many tales of miracles that have occurred up to the modern age, but finding actual proof of these stories requires us to believe the truthfulness of the witnesses, and there are those who will say it is all just lies told by the Catholic Church to keep the faithful believing.

My personal belief in a God who created the universe is based on a notion that it is more logical to believe in a force that created all we see and experience, than to believe that all we see and experience somehow came into being by itself. The only way to believe there is no God is to believe the universe was always here, but scientists believe the universe was not always here, there was a point before time began when the universe did not exist. This is called the "Big Bang Theory" and I think if one believes in that theory, it becomes pretty inevitable to believe there is a God.

But believing in a God who created the universe does nothing to show that the God revealed in the Bible to Abraham, and revealed to be all-loving and merciful by Christ, is the real God. Observing the way nature works, and the mercilessness with which animals prey on animals, with the way humans treat other humans, and weather and disease kills randomly, it would be easier to believe in a God that does not care about his creation, and is rather indifferent to our suffering.

And I think this believe in an impersonal God is deism, and I think that that kind of God is the only thing we can prove using logic and reason alone.

To believe in the loving and personal God taught to us by Christ, it takes something more: faith.

And what is faith, it's a willingness to believe in something you cannot prove to be true.

And that is the quandry Christians find themselves in when atheists demand proof for God.

We cannot give you proof. If there was proof of God, you would no longer have faith, but faith is what's required to have redemption and forgiveness of sins. Once God proves himself, it is no longer possible to ask forgiveness for anything you've done, because your motives are no longer genuine, all you're doing is surrendering to a superior will. Once you know for certain there is a God, you will be so bent by that knowledge that you will lack free will.

And that is why God does not show himself, at least not in the obvious way that atheists would demand.

Dear Blackrook
Death is another form of spiritual change.
Change is part of the nature of life, and death is one such change.

If we fear death, part of that is fearing change that is beyond our control.
If we focus on dealing with fear and change, that will
not only help us deal with death, but deal with all other changes in life!

 

[Blackrook]

I start a reasonable, respectful thread, seriously discussing a religious topic. No one responds. Typical.

 

[Blackrook]

The only certainty in life is that we are going to die. Some die in the womb, some die at the moment of birth, some die in childhood, some die in young adulthood, some die in middle-age, some die when they are old, but all of us, eventually, die.

And that presents us with a problem.

Because none of us knows, for certain, what happens after that.

Yes, it is true that there are people with near death experiences ("NDE") who tell us they died, wandered around the operating room, met their dead family and friends, and then came back, but there is no certainty in these stories. They could be genuine spiritual experiences, but they could be the by-products of brain death, illusions that a dying brain experiences as it shuts down. I do not know what to believe myself, so I do not put much stock in NDE stories as proof of the afterlife.

We have the Bible, and all its miracle stories, but there are many who don't believe in the Bible, and don't believe in miracles, and think that stories that are more than 2000 years old can't possibly be relevant in the modern world.

For Catholics, we have stories of the saints and the martyrs, and many tales of miracles that have occurred up to the modern age, but finding actual proof of these stories requires us to believe the truthfulness of the witnesses, and there are those who will say it is all just lies told by the Catholic Church to keep the faithful believing.

My personal belief in a God who created the universe is based on a notion that it is more logical to believe in a force that created all we see and experience, than to believe that all we see and experience somehow came into being by itself. The only way to believe there is no God is to believe the universe was always here, but scientists believe the universe was not always here, there was a point before time began when the universe did not exist. This is called the "Big Bang Theory" and I think if one believes in that theory, it becomes pretty inevitable to believe there is a God.

But believing in a God who created the universe does nothing to show that the God revealed in the Bible to Abraham, and revealed to be all-loving and merciful by Christ, is the real God. Observing the way nature works, and the mercilessness with which animals prey on animals, with the way humans treat other humans, and weather and disease kills randomly, it would be easier to believe in a God that does not care about his creation, and is rather indifferent to our suffering.

And I think this believe in an impersonal God is deism, and I think that that kind of God is the only thing we can prove using logic and reason alone.

To believe in the loving and personal God taught to us by Christ, it takes something more: faith.

And what is faith, it's a willingness to believe in something you cannot prove to be true.

And that is the quandry Christians find themselves in when atheists demand proof for God.

We cannot give you proof. If there was proof of God, you would no longer have faith, but faith is what's required to have redemption and forgiveness of sins. Once God proves himself, it is no longer possible to ask forgiveness for anything you've done, because your motives are no longer genuine, all you're doing is surrendering to a superior will. Once you know for certain there is a God, you will be so bent by that knowledge that you will lack free will.

And that is why God does not show himself, at least not in the obvious way that atheists would demand.

Dear Blackrook
Death is another form of spiritual change.
Change is part of the nature of life, and death is one such change.

If we fear death, part of that is fearing change that is beyond our control.
If we focus on dealing with fear and change, that will
not only help us deal with death, but deal with all other changes in life!

I don't fear death, I welcome it. It is life that is onerous to me. I am 51-years-old, and all I have to look forward to is getting old, having my body fall apart, and not having enough money to pay my bills.

But I can do nothing to hurry up death because that violates the tenets of my religion. So I must endure the rest of the 20 or 30 or 40 years God has granted to me.

 

[Divine Wind]

The only certainty in life is that we are going to die. Some die in the womb, some die at the moment of birth, some die in childhood, some die in young adulthood, some die in middle-age, some die when they are old, but all of us, eventually, die.

And that presents us with a problem.

Because none of us knows, for certain, what happens after that.

Yes, it is true that there are people with near death experiences ("NDE") who tell us they died, wandered around the operating room, met their dead family and friends, and then came back, but there is no certainty in these stories. They could be genuine spiritual experiences, but they could be the by-products of brain death, illusions that a dying brain experiences as it shuts down. I do not know what to believe myself, so I do not put much stock in NDE stories as proof of the afterlife.

We have the Bible, and all its miracle stories, but there are many who don't believe in the Bible, and don't believe in miracles, and think that stories that are more than 2000 years old can't possibly be relevant in the modern world.

For Catholics, we have stories of the saints and the martyrs, and many tales of miracles that have occurred up to the modern age, but finding actual proof of these stories requires us to believe the truthfulness of the witnesses, and there are those who will say it is all just lies told by the Catholic Church to keep the faithful believing.

My personal belief in a God who created the universe is based on a notion that it is more logical to believe in a force that created all we see and experience, than to believe that all we see and experience somehow came into being by itself. The only way to believe there is no God is to believe the universe was always here, but scientists believe the universe was not always here, there was a point before time began when the universe did not exist. This is called the "Big Bang Theory" and I think if one believes in that theory, it becomes pretty inevitable to believe there is a God.

But believing in a God who created the universe does nothing to show that the God revealed in the Bible to Abraham, and revealed to be all-loving and merciful by Christ, is the real God. Observing the way nature works, and the mercilessness with which animals prey on animals, with the way humans treat other humans, and weather and disease kills randomly, it would be easier to believe in a God that does not care about his creation, and is rather indifferent to our suffering.

And I think this believe in an impersonal God is deism, and I think that that kind of God is the only thing we can prove using logic and reason alone.

To believe in the loving and personal God taught to us by Christ, it takes something more: faith.

And what is faith, it's a willingness to believe in something you cannot prove to be true.

And that is the quandry Christians find themselves in when atheists demand proof for God.

We cannot give you proof. If there was proof of God, you would no longer have faith, but faith is what's required to have redemption and forgiveness of sins. Once God proves himself, it is no longer possible to ask forgiveness for anything you've done, because your motives are no longer genuine, all you're doing is surrendering to a superior will. Once you know for certain there is a God, you will be so bent by that knowledge that you will lack free will.

And that is why God does not show himself, at least not in the obvious way that atheists would demand.

Correct about death. As a person who had a NDE, it's intriguing to me that you seem to disavow the experience. To me it was profound. It changed me from an atheist into someone who spent the last 42 years searching for greater spiritual awareness.

You, OTOH, seem to be someone who is not searching at all, but certain of your ideas and more interested in himself than becoming a better soul.

 

[skye]

Sure OP

Death and taxes

the only certainty in life.

 

[Divine Wind]

I don't fear death, I welcome it. It is life that is onerous to me. I am 51-years-old, and all I have to look forward to is getting old, having my body fall apart, and not having enough money to pay my bills.

But I can do nothing to hurry up death because that violates the tenets of my religion. So I must endure the rest of the 20 or 30 or 40 years God has granted to me.

Dude, it's clear you do fear the unknown. Hard to believe you are 51 since your maturity places you closer to a teenager.

 

[emilynghiem]

Sure OP

Death and taxes

the only certainty in life.

skye you can beat taxes by not buying or making enough money to deal with those.

Love and truth can transcend death, in terms of connecting people and generations over lifetimes,
beyond death. But we still go through physical birth and death to manifest in this realm of existence.

 

[Blackrook]

Your typical Democrat doesn't pay taxes, but that's not a religious topic.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

Sure OP

Death and taxes

the only certainty in life.

keep believing that if you like, just don't ask for their previous income tax statements (politicians) and you can live happily ever after.

 

[peabody]

....scientists believe the universe was not always here, there was a point before time began when the universe did not exist. This is called the "Big Bang Theory" and I think if one believes in that theory, it becomes pretty inevitable to believe there is a God.

I believe the Big Bang theory but I don't feel like because of that, it is inevitable that I will believe there is a God.

The Big Bang Theory is a scientific model supported by extensive evidence.

 

[Eaglewings]

Ok...this was many years ago..I took some acid and it overwhelmingly connects you to the universe, and how huge it is..we are just a tiny little planet.. I truly felt a power that I never felt before coming from the universe ...anyway that was cool...

Before I became a christian , I looked peoples eyes and I felt something special... I felt like I was on the outside looking in....I didn't understand all of the stupid stuff I heard, all of the F-*up rules and scams...like yeah right..But I kept listening ..

And one night I asked God quietly to come into my heart and show me the truth.. nothing magical happened but in time I started to understand little things, I felt God in my spirit.
Now I don't listen to the mumbo jumbo that some so called christians try to cram down my throat, my relationship is between me an my walk with God.Only

Reading what you wrote to a non believer would be the stupid stuff I felt before, it takes the Holy Spirit to open the eyes of your heart and really understand..

There is a spiritual realm all around us that we do not see ( no I am not on acid anymore )lol our own spirits can connect to that realm if we pay attention.

So for me there is no turning back, I have no doubt about it that Jesus gave the ultimate sacrifice so that we can be clean to God.

Adam and Eve made the first sin that angered God so we are living now with all of the horrible things that happen...maybe we are in hell now..lol

But Jesus came to show us how to live through trials and tribulations as he died a horrible painful death.

Jesus died and came back in spirit to unite with our spirit and guide us .

There are people who lie and say they are christians for money or power as we see a lot with politics....this alone turns away so many people..But that is not how it is at all... they are not really walking with the true spirit of Christ..

 

[BreezeWood]

Your typical Democrat doesn't pay taxes, but that's not a religious topic.

.

Trump May Not Have Owed Income Tax for Years

Leaked Donald Trump Records Show He May Not Have Owed Taxes for Years

grow up, not paying taxes and starting wars is the sole religion republicans live by ...

 

[emilynghiem]

Your typical Democrat doesn't pay taxes, but that's not a religious topic.

Well Blackrook
if your mindset is to be more biased toward Catholics as good
and biased against Democrats as bad, that is a religion you follow.
And it isn't Catholic and it isn't Biblical or Christian to put people
in boxes based on political or religious label. It's human.

And yes it does affect religious perceptions
when we have these "political beliefs" about people as groups!

The same perception we used to view life and people in one area,
the same biases there affect EVERYTHING we look at.

So if we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves,
and as Jesus loves us with forgiveness beyond price greater than we deserve,
then coming at each other as "I'm Catholic and I'm better than you as a Democrat"
isn't exactly loving each other as equal children of God.

There's a bias there that makes us all "sinners" who fall short
of the perfect love of God that Jesus represents for all people.

We should know we aren't that perfect to be able to love every person equally.

So recognizing we have these biases
is a big step in spiritual growth and realization of true humanity and oneness with others.

 

[emilynghiem]

Your typical Democrat doesn't pay taxes, but that's not a religious topic.

.

Trump May Not Have Owed Income Tax for Years

Leaked Donald Trump Records Show He May Not Have Owed Taxes for Years

grow up, not paying taxes and starting wars is the sole religion republicans live by ...

Dear BreezeWood I guess it all depends where you are putting your money instead of taxes.

I'd much rather people fund Doctors Without Borders, St Jude's, or the Nurturing Network
than be forced to pay mandates and fork out billions in taxes to insurance companies
that aren't building hospitals or helping poor people with medical needs who can't pay.

If taxpayers had a choice whether to fund Planned Parenthood, the Nurturing Network, or local medical
schools and clinics to serve the community by district, don't you think all these groups would strive to provide the best low cost sustainable services in order to earn respect of supporters and attract donors?

 

[Divine Wind]

grow up, not paying taxes and starting wars is the sole religion republicans live by ...

Okay, so explain to me how your way is better, please.

Time until you either ignore me or tell me to look it up myself: 10...9...8.....

 

[Blackrook]

Divine Wind, you deny being a troll but you are. You never talk about the subject of the thread, you talk about me, and I'm not the topic of the thread. I am again putting on ignore, and this time I will not change my mind. Goodbye, and good riddin's to bad rubbish.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

grow up, not paying taxes and starting wars is the sole religion republicans live by ...

Okay, so explain to me how your way is better, please.

Time until you either ignore me or tell me to look it up myself: 10...9...8.....

.

Okay, so explain to me how your way is better, please.

did you ignore the other shoe -

Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

not to mention causing the Great Depression of 2007-2009 ... and of course millions of senseless deaths, just a day at the park for the evercaring fundamentalists.

 

[Eaglewings]

Oh brother this thread died a bad death..