The only certainty in life is that we are going to die

[emilynghiem]

Hi Blackrook
Here is something else that apparently cannot be changed:
Vatican's Muller: No Communion For Divorced/Remarried -- Not Evan a Pope Can Change This

I can understand for internal reasons, if an institution
practices a tradition of men only leaders and no divorce and remarrying.

But this is not universal to all humans and human relationships.
So that is one area where the Catholic ideology is not "truly Catholic or Universal."

It is still relative and human, and not so Divine as God is to include all people without condition.

 

[emilynghiem]

Oh brother this thread died a bad death..

Nope, because Blackrook's point was to discuss religion.
And that conversation has been going on since humanity became self aware
of life, and death, and power and connection in lineages, where individual and tribal competition
led to laws to govern property and power, and awareness of the RELATIONSHIP
between the individual will and the will of others and collective good will,
so that religions are used to define and manage that relationship.

 

[Blackrook]

To put a fine point on my thinking, the Catholic Church's position on divorce and birth control is a big reason I believe it is the authentic Church, protected by the Holy Spirit from error. Any institution that was only of man would have caved long ago on these issues, as the Protestant churches have all caved. The enormous pressure the world has put on the Catholic Church to change its positions on these issues could only be withstood by an institution that is of God, and has God's strength of will.

 

[emilynghiem]

To put a fine point on my thinking, the Catholic Church's position on divorce and birth control is a big reason I believe it is the authentic Church, protected by the Holy Spirit from error. Any institution that was only of man would have caved long ago on these issues, as the Protestant churches have all caved. The enormous pressure the world has put on the Catholic Church to change its positions on these issues could only be withstood by an institution that is of God, and has God's strength of will.

Dear Blackrook
so if a person goes through different stages in life
with different partners, they should only marry and
have sex/family with the last partner.

Well how do they know that is the last one?
What if some one has more than one stage of life
to go through within the same lifetime.

So we just abstain, because it COULD be that
"the right person will come along later" and we
can only marry one person so we have to wait for that one?

 

[emilynghiem]

To put a fine point on my thinking, the Catholic Church's position on divorce and birth control is a big reason I believe it is the authentic Church, protected by the Holy Spirit from error. Any institution that was only of man would have caved long ago on these issues, as the Protestant churches have all caved. The enormous pressure the world has put on the Catholic Church to change its positions on these issues could only be withstood by an institution that is of God, and has God's strength of will.

And the Catholic church position is that only those who are members of the official
Catholic church are saved and go to heaven? is this correct?
membership and affiliation as a Catholic is required.
It is not enough to believe in Christ Jesus but it has to be based
on whether a person is an official member of the Catholic church and
not outside and not excommunicated or otherwise divorced/dropped out?

 

[Blackrook]

To put a fine point on my thinking, the Catholic Church's position on divorce and birth control is a big reason I believe it is the authentic Church, protected by the Holy Spirit from error. Any institution that was only of man would have caved long ago on these issues, as the Protestant churches have all caved. The enormous pressure the world has put on the Catholic Church to change its positions on these issues could only be withstood by an institution that is of God, and has God's strength of will.

And the Catholic church position is that only those who are members of the official
Catholic church are saved and go to heaven? is this correct?
membership and affiliation as a Catholic is required.
It is not enough to believe in Christ Jesus but it has to be based
on whether a person is an official member of the Catholic church and
not outside and not excommunicated or otherwise divorced/dropped out?

No, that is not the Catholic Church position.

Baptism of many Protestant denominations is recognized as just as valid as Catholic baptism, and anyone baptized is a Christian and can be saved.

The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptism, nor are Mormons considered Christians, because LDS denies the Trinity and many other basic Christian doctrines.

 

[emilynghiem]

To put a fine point on my thinking, the Catholic Church's position on divorce and birth control is a big reason I believe it is the authentic Church, protected by the Holy Spirit from error. Any institution that was only of man would have caved long ago on these issues, as the Protestant churches have all caved. The enormous pressure the world has put on the Catholic Church to change its positions on these issues could only be withstood by an institution that is of God, and has God's strength of will.

And the Catholic church position is that only those who are members of the official
Catholic church are saved and go to heaven? is this correct?
membership and affiliation as a Catholic is required.
It is not enough to believe in Christ Jesus but it has to be based
on whether a person is an official member of the Catholic church and
not outside and not excommunicated or otherwise divorced/dropped out?

No, that is not the Catholic Church position.

Baptism of many Protestant denominations is recognized as just as valid as Catholic baptism, and anyone baptized is a Christian and can be saved.

The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon baptism, nor are Mormons considered Christians, because LDS denies the Trinity and many other basic Christian doctrines.

Well, Blackrook I must be of Universalist persuasion.
I believe you don't have to be accepting of everything,
but yes we do have to forgive things we reject or have conflicts with
so we don't let it bog down our emotional health or energy.

Some people call it
letting it go
tolerance
forbearance
inclusion
compassion or grace and forgiveness
of others and whatever comes to us in life.

For all we know, perhaps atheists, liberal haters (double meaning intended),
and Mormons Jehovah's Witness or other denominations who reject the Trinity
are created that way for a reason. They have unity within their ranks,
and it is up to people in every subgroup to collaborate despite our
religious political or other differences. We all need to grow spiritually,
and what better way to exercise and grow but to experience adversity and challenge in life.

 

[bodecea]

The only certainty in life is that we are going to die. Some die in the womb, some die at the moment of birth, some die in childhood, some die in young adulthood, some die in middle-age, some die when they are old, but all of us, eventually, die.

And that presents us with a problem.

Because none of us knows, for certain, what happens after that.

Yes, it is true that there are people with near death experiences ("NDE") who tell us they died, wandered around the operating room, met their dead family and friends, and then came back, but there is no certainty in these stories. They could be genuine spiritual experiences, but they could be the by-products of brain death, illusions that a dying brain experiences as it shuts down. I do not know what to believe myself, so I do not put much stock in NDE stories as proof of the afterlife.

We have the Bible, and all its miracle stories, but there are many who don't believe in the Bible, and don't believe in miracles, and think that stories that are more than 2000 years old can't possibly be relevant in the modern world.

For Catholics, we have stories of the saints and the martyrs, and many tales of miracles that have occurred up to the modern age, but finding actual proof of these stories requires us to believe the truthfulness of the witnesses, and there are those who will say it is all just lies told by the Catholic Church to keep the faithful believing.

My personal belief in a God who created the universe is based on a notion that it is more logical to believe in a force that created all we see and experience, than to believe that all we see and experience somehow came into being by itself. The only way to believe there is no God is to believe the universe was always here, but scientists believe the universe was not always here, there was a point before time began when the universe did not exist. This is called the "Big Bang Theory" and I think if one believes in that theory, it becomes pretty inevitable to believe there is a God.

But believing in a God who created the universe does nothing to show that the God revealed in the Bible to Abraham, and revealed to be all-loving and merciful by Christ, is the real God. Observing the way nature works, and the mercilessness with which animals prey on animals, with the way humans treat other humans, and weather and disease kills randomly, it would be easier to believe in a God that does not care about his creation, and is rather indifferent to our suffering.

And I think this believe in an impersonal God is deism, and I think that that kind of God is the only thing we can prove using logic and reason alone.

To believe in the loving and personal God taught to us by Christ, it takes something more: faith.

And what is faith, it's a willingness to believe in something you cannot prove to be true.

And that is the quandry Christians find themselves in when atheists demand proof for God.

We cannot give you proof. If there was proof of God, you would no longer have faith, but faith is what's required to have redemption and forgiveness of sins. Once God proves himself, it is no longer possible to ask forgiveness for anything you've done, because your motives are no longer genuine, all you're doing is surrendering to a superior will. Once you know for certain there is a God, you will be so bent by that knowledge that you will lack free will.

And that is why God does not show himself, at least not in the obvious way that atheists would demand.

Dear Blackrook
Death is another form of spiritual change.
Change is part of the nature of life, and death is one such change.

If we fear death, part of that is fearing change that is beyond our control.
If we focus on dealing with fear and change, that will
not only help us deal with death, but deal with all other changes in life!

I don't fear death, I welcome it. It is life that is onerous to me. I am 51-years-old, and all I have to look forward to is getting old, having my body fall apart, and not having enough money to pay my bills.

But I can do nothing to hurry up death because that violates the tenets of my religion. So I must endure the rest of the 20 or 30 or 40 years God has granted to me.

Oh....woe be to you!

 

[Vastator]

The only certainty in life is that we are going to die. Some die in the womb, some die at the moment of birth, some die in childhood, some die in young adulthood, some die in middle-age, some die when they are old, but all of us, eventually, die.

And that presents us with a problem.

Because none of us knows, for certain, what happens after that.

Yes, it is true that there are people with near death experiences ("NDE") who tell us they died, wandered around the operating room, met their dead family and friends, and then came back, but there is no certainty in these stories. They could be genuine spiritual experiences, but they could be the by-products of brain death, illusions that a dying brain experiences as it shuts down. I do not know what to believe myself, so I do not put much stock in NDE stories as proof of the afterlife.

We have the Bible, and all its miracle stories, but there are many who don't believe in the Bible, and don't believe in miracles, and think that stories that are more than 2000 years old can't possibly be relevant in the modern world.

For Catholics, we have stories of the saints and the martyrs, and many tales of miracles that have occurred up to the modern age, but finding actual proof of these stories requires us to believe the truthfulness of the witnesses, and there are those who will say it is all just lies told by the Catholic Church to keep the faithful believing.

My personal belief in a God who created the universe is based on a notion that it is more logical to believe in a force that created all we see and experience, than to believe that all we see and experience somehow came into being by itself. The only way to believe there is no God is to believe the universe was always here, but scientists believe the universe was not always here, there was a point before time began when the universe did not exist. This is called the "Big Bang Theory" and I think if one believes in that theory, it becomes pretty inevitable to believe there is a God.

But believing in a God who created the universe does nothing to show that the God revealed in the Bible to Abraham, and revealed to be all-loving and merciful by Christ, is the real God. Observing the way nature works, and the mercilessness with which animals prey on animals, with the way humans treat other humans, and weather and disease kills randomly, it would be easier to believe in a God that does not care about his creation, and is rather indifferent to our suffering.

And I think this believe in an impersonal God is deism, and I think that that kind of God is the only thing we can prove using logic and reason alone.

To believe in the loving and personal God taught to us by Christ, it takes something more: faith.

And what is faith, it's a willingness to believe in something you cannot prove to be true.

And that is the quandry Christians find themselves in when atheists demand proof for God.

We cannot give you proof. If there was proof of God, you would no longer have faith, but faith is what's required to have redemption and forgiveness of sins. Once God proves himself, it is no longer possible to ask forgiveness for anything you've done, because your motives are no longer genuine, all you're doing is surrendering to a superior will. Once you know for certain there is a God, you will be so bent by that knowledge that you will lack free will.

And that is why God does not show himself, at least not in the obvious way that atheists would demand.

We each of us, have a perfect reference for what our existence will be like after death. However few wish to face it.

 

[shimon]

There is a jelly fish that reverses its age and can start over as a young animal it is known as the immortal jellyfish... They have already found the cells that cause aging in the human body it is only a matter of time till it can be solved by either learning how that jellyfish can reverse its age or some other means so Blackrock your certainty is incorrect and it may be possible to live far far longer then any can imagine and even if we die to be brought back with the new technologies that are being developed... Just because your sect places great value in dying and being with your Jesus doesn't mean the rest of us can't eventually enjoy the full fruits of this gift called Life that Gd has bestowed upon us....

 

[Divine Wind]

There is a jelly fish that reverses its age and can start over as a young animal it is known as the immortal jellyfish... They have already found the cells that cause aging in the human body it is only a matter of time till it can be solved by either learning how that jellyfish can reverse its age or some other means so Blackrock your certainty is incorrect and it may be possible to live far far longer then any can imagine and even if we die to be brought back with the new technologies that are being developed... Just because your sect places great value in dying and being with your Jesus doesn't mean the rest of us can't eventually enjoy the full fruits of this gift called Life that Gd has bestowed upon us....

Reversing aging is more than simply skin and body tissue. The human brain is the big problem. It doesn't do us any good to look 22 but have a mind with dementia. We can do heart transplants but a brain transplant is a lot trickier. If we could do that, then why not transplant our brains into a mechanical body that is immune to disease, much stronger, durable and repairable?

 

[shimon]

Yes you are correct on a number of points but if I remember a few years ago they reversed dementia and brought back aged mice brains to 97 per cent of their formal capacity .. Don't forget that they are working on memory sticks as well... There are a number of intriguing possibilities and there may be more then one way to go to fix those problems...

 

[MarathonMike]

I have a slightly different perspective on God and his relationship to us. He purposely created the only thing he can't control. Us and our crazy brains. To intervene in any way violates his grand experiment.

I saw a nature film where the photographer was filming a Joey that had been separated from it's Mother. As you might imagine the Joey was attacked and killed by night stalking animals. The photographer was crying but she could not intervene because she was there to observe and record wild animal behavior. But clearly she cared about the animal.

The entire point of creating us and giving us the intellect we have is to observe us without intervention. Then he sees how we adapt and evolve, how we create, how we destroy, how we decide, how we war, how we love, how we suffer, how we kill, how we save, how we endure, how we give up, how we live, and how we die. To him, we are (I believe) something akin to his pets. He cares. And In the end, we all get let in on the joke.

 

[Dajjal]

The only certainty in life is that we are going to die. Some die in the womb, some die at the moment of birth, some die in childhood, some die in young adulthood, some die in middle-age, some die when they are old, but all of us, eventually, die.

And that presents us with a problem.

Because none of us knows, for certain, what happens after that.

Yes, it is true that there are people with near death experiences ("NDE") who tell us they died, wandered around the operating room, met their dead family and friends, and then came back, but there is no certainty in these stories. They could be genuine spiritual experiences, but they could be the by-products of brain death, illusions that a dying brain experiences as it shuts down. I do not know what to believe myself, so I do not put much stock in NDE stories as proof of the afterlife.

We have the Bible, and all its miracle stories, but there are many who don't believe in the Bible, and don't believe in miracles, and think that stories that are more than 2000 years old can't possibly be relevant in the modern world.

For Catholics, we have stories of the saints and the martyrs, and many tales of miracles that have occurred up to the modern age, but finding actual proof of these stories requires us to believe the truthfulness of the witnesses, and there are those who will say it is all just lies told by the Catholic Church to keep the faithful believing.

My personal belief in a God who created the universe is based on a notion that it is more logical to believe in a force that created all we see and experience, than to believe that all we see and experience somehow came into being by itself. The only way to believe there is no God is to believe the universe was always here, but scientists believe the universe was not always here, there was a point before time began when the universe did not exist. This is called the "Big Bang Theory" and I think if one believes in that theory, it becomes pretty inevitable to believe there is a God.

But believing in a God who created the universe does nothing to show that the God revealed in the Bible to Abraham, and revealed to be all-loving and merciful by Christ, is the real God. Observing the way nature works, and the mercilessness with which animals prey on animals, with the way humans treat other humans, and weather and disease kills randomly, it would be easier to believe in a God that does not care about his creation, and is rather indifferent to our suffering.

And I think this believe in an impersonal God is deism, and I think that that kind of God is the only thing we can prove using logic and reason alone.

To believe in the loving and personal God taught to us by Christ, it takes something more: faith.

And what is faith, it's a willingness to believe in something you cannot prove to be true.

And that is the quandry Christians find themselves in when atheists demand proof for God.

We cannot give you proof. If there was proof of God, you would no longer have faith, but faith is what's required to have redemption and forgiveness of sins. Once God proves himself, it is no longer possible to ask forgiveness for anything you've done, because your motives are no longer genuine, all you're doing is surrendering to a superior will. Once you know for certain there is a God, you will be so bent by that knowledge that you will lack free will.

And that is why God does not show himself, at least not in the obvious way that atheists would demand.

True, we all die. At 70 years old, I am expecting to die in the next few, seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, or at the very outside in the next few decades.

But there are other options than the conventional religions. I attended spiritualist churches for over 30 years, and I have had many messages from my dead relatives, so I tend to think life goes on after the death of the body.