The Aftermath of the Trial

[The Rabbi]

The state of FL v. Zimmerman was/is a national Rorschach Test. Like the Mirror of Erised from the Harry Potter series, everyone seems to see what they want to see when they look into it.

What I see is a flawed investigation into a fatal shooting. The dead is an unarmed Black young man. The shooter is an armed Hispanic man, supposedly on Neighborhood Watch rounds, except that he's armed, he's following the subject he'd called in to the police, & he confronts the subject.

The sheriff was eventually released from his job. The sheriff apparently missed the potential interest in the case, he didn't collect all the forensic evidence immediately, he didn't protect the crime scene (for investigative purposes, you assume it's a crime scene), he didn't do blood draws on subject & shooter (for alcohol &/or drugs) immediately, @ the point that the forensic technicians bagged Martin's hoodie, they put it into plastic & fungus ruined the evidence. I blame the sheriff for this case dragging out - better tradecraft & case work & we might have had a definitive answer as to whether the shooting was justified. In the actual case, Zimmerman was interviewed & released.

As it is, the state couldn't make the case that the shooting was unjustified. & so Zimmerman is not guilty, as the court requires in these cases.

.

If people dont get the facts right, they cannot get the case right.
Zimmerman was not on neighborhood watch. He was going out to the store. He did not follow Martin. He got out of the truck to see where he had gone because he had lost sight of him. Zimmerman did not confront Martin. Martin confronted Zimmerman and then punched him.
There was no sheriff. The chief of police was relieved of duty because of pressure from Washington over the case. The police on duty that night understood it was a good shoot, as did the district attorney. This is why they lethim go that night.
Once the facts are clarified the case becomes simple.

 

[Pheonixops]

In this case, Zimmerman is innocent. The reason is that the jury ruled self-defense, which is not a crime. The initial police report showed that his wounds were consistent with what Zimmerman told police after the fact, which showed that he was not the aggressor.

Also, the state's prime witness reversed her lying court testimony of "Trayvon cried for help and the other guy was on top" to "Trayvon whooped cracka's ass." during her first post trial interview. This female lying is not uncommon in cases in which Al Sharpton inures witnesses repeatedly into the process of decimating a white person for living. He has come to the conclusion that if one is black, one is right, to hell with what the law says. And he somehow surrounds himself with the meconium of purile black persons who are urged to commit perjury against white people. He's full of rancor and hate.

Cases in which Sharpton involved himself: (1) Twanna Brawley lies about unknown white assailants (2) Chrystal Magnum lie about rape (Duke Lacrosse Team)

Black citizens have maggots like Sharpton fooling them, and that's why they get loser syndrome every time Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton step up to the plate. These men have made themselves disreputable over and over and over. When they take over with their smear campaigns and make everyone indignant, they take a lot of money home with them and live like kings. The nation needs to reconsider perjury laws and enforce them, and quit falling for blackmail threats of incitation of pandemic mob violence. It's time to call bluff and duke it out.

The black community will not heal itself if it gets a constant supply of federal support for bad behaviors.

I find that pretty ignorant and insulting; what percentage of the "Black community" do you think follows the likes of Sharpton and Jackson? Do you think that Black people can also be individuals who are capable of thinking for themselves?

What percentage of "the Black community" is receiving federal support? Is federal support solely for Black people?

Given their reaction towards the verdict? All of them. And as for thinking for themselves, that remains yet to be seen.

LOL, what do you mean by "their reaction"? Do you mean Charles Barkley's reaction? Do you actually think that it is even anything close to "intellectual honesty" to equate some Black people's dissatisfaction with the result of the trial as now "followers of Sharpton and Jackson"?

 

[Cuyo]

In this case, Zimmerman is innocent. The reason is that the jury ruled self-defense, which is not a crime. The initial police report showed that his wounds were consistent with what Zimmerman told police after the fact, which showed that he was not the aggressor.

Will you people give it a rest?

It was consistent with the possibility of self-defense, as defined by Florida statute, in the eyes of 6 individuals.

They didn't show that he "was not the aggressor," only that he might not have been. His wounds were consistent with a good, and probably well-deserved ass whoopin. Forensics can't tell you what happened moments before.

But what appears to have happened? That's where the civil case comes into play.

 

[hoosier88]

...

If people dont get the facts right, they cannot get the case right.
Zimmerman was not on neighborhood watch. He was going out to the store. He did not follow Martin. He got out of the truck to see where he had gone because he had lost sight of him. Zimmerman did not confront Martin. Martin confronted Zimmerman and then punched him.
There was no sheriff. The chief of police was relieved of duty because of pressure from Washington over the case. The police on duty that night understood it was a good shoot, as did the district attorney. This is why they lethim go that night.
Once the facts are clarified the case becomes simple.

(My bold)

The chief of police, thanks.

Yah, the police & DA considered it a righteous shooting initially. Does the DA still have a job there? I still fault the chief of police for not considering how the shooting would look.

Once the MSM & yes, the Black activists started protesting how the case was handled, there was bound to be pressure for a thorough investigation. As I noted, collecting all the evidence immediately, from the site & from the subject & the shooter - might have substantiated Zimmerman's account or might not - either way, both defense & prosecution would have had better information to work with. Better info might have gotten us a definitive verdict, instead of the not guilty we have because the state couldn't make its case.

That - I'm convinced - if why we have all these people still reacting as if the shooting were taking place now, over & over. I think it's beside the point to argue the minutae of the case - it won't bring back Martin nor fix the mess that Zimmerman is facing.

In FL v. Zimmerman, it wasn't possible to please all the parties involved. From the POV of the state of FL, the best they could do was convince everyone that they had done their best to deliver justice. That should have been the focus of all the parties - but events & personalities got in the way.

 

[Granny]

Not sure why someone would want my opinion on this subject, but I haven't particularly had any reason to follow it closely. Sometimes I just get tired of all the BS and feel like we should return our courtrooms from public spectacles back to courtrooms with some semblance of decorum. (Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know ... the public has a right ... ." Plllutttt!!

There are so many of these "high profile" trials today that go on and on and on - the OJ Simpson trial, that Peterson guy in CA who killed his pregnant wife, the ex-cop Peterson guy who seemed to have a habit of killing his wives, Casey Anthony, Jodi Arias (which was a mega circus), Zimmerman ... . In all cases, they were FUCKED up from day one. Hell, they're double and triple fucked.

Once the MSM gets a whiff of a particular situation they beat the damned thing to death. It doesn't matter whether there's a word of truth in anything they "dig up," get from "reliable sources," or "anonymous sources," etc. They have whipped the public into a feeding frenzy for blood. There is no such thing as responsible journalism today in the MSM.

Then there's all the pre-trial hysteria, and dishonesty between prosecutors and defense lawyers (such as withholding critical information or failure to produce documents to which the other side is entitled to receive) in an attempt to frame their cases the way they want them to be decided. Then you have judges (such as Lance Ito) who can't keep control over their courtrooms or make arbitrary rulings on various items that can be prejudicial to one party or the other.

Frankly, I think cameras should be removed from the courtrooms and control kept over who comes into a courtroom as an observer to all the chaos - hell, these days people become so invested in a trial that they will travel long distances to stand in line to get a ticket to see the circus.

Innocence until proven guilty is a legal concept originated in America. It's a good concept but these days taxpayers are paying millions upon millions of dollars to fund what should be a fair trial, not a protracted public entertainment vehicle. The Zimmerman trial had interest to Floridians and Florida law and should have been conducted as such. I've never heard of a 6 member jury panel, but who am I to question it? Guilty or not, he was found not guilty by a jury and that's the end of it. Period.

The government should stay the hell out of local matters. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson should stay put wherever the hell they are instead of out rabble rousing. Nothing is to be gained from that but there's a hell of a lot to be lost. Zimmerman cannot be retried because of double jeopardy laws. So the thing to do, it seems, is to go after the witnesses and prosecution for any number of reasons to establish a verdict that is more "favorable" or "just" in the eyes of those who are dissatisfied with the first verdict.

 

[The Rabbi]

...

If people dont get the facts right, they cannot get the case right.
Zimmerman was not on neighborhood watch. He was going out to the store. He did not follow Martin. He got out of the truck to see where he had gone because he had lost sight of him. Zimmerman did not confront Martin. Martin confronted Zimmerman and then punched him.
There was no sheriff. The chief of police was relieved of duty because of pressure from Washington over the case. The police on duty that night understood it was a good shoot, as did the district attorney. This is why they lethim go that night.
Once the facts are clarified the case becomes simple.

(My bold)

The chief of police, thanks.

Yah, the police & DA considered it a righteous shooting initially. Does the DA still have a job there? I still fault the chief of police for not considering how the shooting would look.

Once the MSM & yes, the Black activists started protesting how the case was handled, there was bound to be pressure for a thorough investigation. As I noted, collecting all the evidence immediately, from the site & from the subject & the shooter - might have substantiated Zimmerman's account or might not - either way, both defense & prosecution would have had better information to work with. Better info might have gotten us a definitive verdict, instead of the not guilty we have because the state couldn't make its case.

That - I'm convinced - if why we have all these people still reacting as if the shooting were taking place now, over & over. I think it's beside the point to argue the minutae of the case - it won't bring back Martin nor fix the mess that Zimmerman is facing.

In FL v. Zimmerman, it wasn't possible to please all the parties involved. From the POV of the state of FL, the best they could do was convince everyone that they had done their best to deliver justice. That should have been the focus of all the parties - but events & personalities got in the way.

Um, not guilty by reason of self defense IS a definitive verdict. It doesnt get any more definitive than that.
We aren't interested in pleasing all parties involved. We are interested in adjudicating a murder case and seeing justice done. Justice was done. Zimmerman was exhonerated in a self defense case. The people who are claiming otherwise are, frankly, race pimps and baiters.

 

[freedombecki]

In this case, Zimmerman is innocent. The reason is that the jury ruled self-defense, which is not a crime. The initial police report showed that his wounds were consistent with what Zimmerman told police after the fact, which showed that he was not the aggressor.

Also, the state's prime witness reversed her lying court testimony of "Trayvon cried for help and the other guy was on top" to "Trayvon whooped cracka's ass." during her first post trial interview. This female lying is not uncommon in cases in which Al Sharpton inures witnesses repeatedly into the process of decimating a white person for living. He has come to the conclusion that if one is black, one is right, to hell with what the law says. And he somehow surrounds himself with the meconium of purile black persons who are urged to commit perjury against white people. He's full of rancor and hate.

Cases in which Sharpton involved himself: (1) Twanna Brawley lies about unknown white assailants (2) Chrystal Magnum lie about rape (Duke Lacrosse Team)

Black citizens have maggots like Sharpton fooling them, and that's why they get loser syndrome every time Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton step up to the plate. These men have made themselves disreputable over and over and over. When they take over with their smear campaigns and make everyone indignant, they take a lot of money home with them and live like kings. The nation needs to reconsider perjury laws and enforce them, and quit falling for blackmail threats of incitation of pandemic mob violence. It's time to call bluff and duke it out.

The black community will not heal itself if it gets a constant supply of federal support for bad behaviors.

I find that pretty ignorant and insulting; what percentage of the "Black community" do you think follows the likes of Sharpton and Jackson? Do you think that Black people can also be individuals who are capable of thinking for themselves?

What percentage of "the Black community" is receiving federal support? Is federal support solely for Black people?

I find that pretty ignorant and insulting;

Not following you down OffTopic Lane.

 

[freedombecki]

In this case, Zimmerman is innocent. The reason is that the jury ruled self-defense, which is not a crime. The initial police report showed that his wounds were consistent with what Zimmerman told police after the fact, which showed that he was not the aggressor.

Will you people give it a rest?

It was consistent with the possibility of self-defense, as defined by Florida statute, in the eyes of 6 individuals.

They didn't show that he "was not the aggressor," only that he might not have been. His wounds were consistent with a good, and probably well-deserved ass whoopin. Forensics can't tell you what happened moments before.

But what appears to have happened? That's where the civil case comes into play.

No, Cuyo, I won't give it a rest. The B team has had its fun with screaming and threatening and saying the innocent is guilty. The evidence and one of the best forensics scientists in the country said Trayvon was on top, and the evidence pointed that way. His shirt bloused out as he was pounding down on Zimmerman. Trayvon allegedly told Zimmerman he was going to die, and Zimmerman couldn't get away from the beating he was taking. When Zimmerman finally was able to grab his gun, he fired to save his life from the death Trayvon threatened with his filthy mouth. His little pal who testified that it was "Trayvon calling for help" told her first interviewer that Trayvon was "Whoopin dat cracka's ass." IOW, she perjured herself rather than told the truth just so her testimony would put Zimmerman away unfairly. Forensics can tell you the position each man was in. It determined there was a huge likelihood of Trayvon in superior position twelve different ways.

The civil case? You mean the Double Jeopardy case that was instigated by the Holder DOJ? Yeah right. You're the one who needs to give it a rest, because obstruction of justice is one thing that can and should result in an impeachment of someone with an irresponsible attitude toward innocent people who tries to get them in more trouble than they deserve for not being black enough.

 

[mudwhistle]

It's hard to just sit down and respond to all of these opinions in one extra long response post. I will address just a few.

This case was not a case that turned on the guilt or innocence of anyone. We know George Zimmerman fired the fatal shot. He admitted it. This case was one that decided whether or not firing that fatal shot was justified. The jury's verdict was that the act was justified.

The reason why this case can't be compared to the OJ case is because the OJ case did involve questions of guilt or innocence. OJ denied being the killer. He said he didn't do it, someone else did it. The prosecution could never prove that he committed the acts that led to death beyond a reasonable doubt and there was no issue of whether or not the acts were justified. The doubt was that it was as reasonable to conclude that someone else killed Goldman and Brown, as it was reasonable to conclude that OJ did it. With that kind of evidence, the jury has no choice but to acquit. Just like in the Zimmerman case, once they concluded that Zimmerman was being beaten and felt that he would be beaten to death, the jury had no choice but to acquit.

Trayvon Martin was a thug in training. This is not important except in one respect. Was being a young thug, just trying his wings, the kind of person who would have a propensity to attack others? The jury, upon the testimony of Rachel Jeantel that Martin probably threw the first punch, concluded that he was.

There is a sickness in the black community that encourages the belief that there is some sort of right to commit crimes. The attacks and vandalism now being played out did not start with Trayvon Martin. It has been going on for years. Long, long before the names Martin or Zimmerman were ever heard. It's an excuse now. "Bash for Trayvon". It justifies what they wanted to do and were going to do anyway.

If the sensible black people do not take charge and get a handle on the kind of violence coming from this part of the nation, there is no hope for them. None at all. The brush of violence is so broad that it will absolutely paint each and every black person that walks the streets.

It is against the law to shoot people for being thugs. No crime was being committed when GZ was following him. So for all intents and purposes TM was just a guy being followed by another guy. Its as cowardly and lazy to go on about TM being a " thug in training" as it is to constantly inject race. And the Zimmerman groupies are so happy, and never consider that CCW rights as well as stand your ground laws are in danger and those who want them repealed have their poster boy in GZ.

Who shot Trayvon for being a thug? He was shot because he committed a violent act. Felonious assault.

Oh, and there aren't any Zimmerman groupies, only Trayvon Groupies. You don't see us wearing Zimmerman T-shirts.

 

[The Rabbi]

Who shot Trayvon for being a thug? He was shot because he committed a violent act.

Oh, and there aren't any Zimmerman groupies, only Trayvon Groupies. You don't see us wearing Trayvon T-shirts.

If I had a son, he would look like Zimmerman.

 

[Ernie S.]

Yet you place all the blame on Zimmerman. Typical Lib. If Martin had simply gone home and not assaulted Zimmerman, he'd be alive. Had Martin not done things that got him suspended from school, he would not have been in Sanford.

But it's Zim's fault for carrying a firearm. OK.

Not for carying it : for playing the vigilante without propper trainning , and getting into a fist fight that cost the life of another person. Hell , the police was just 1 minute away .

And yes ... what an evil lot we liberls are : social service in exchange for his imprudence.

For getting into a fist fight????? Are you insane? Are you blaming Zimmerman for slamming his nose into Martin's fist?

Jesus Christ! How fucking insane is that?
In one minute he could have been dead.
Again, you place all the blame on the man who acted legally to end a threat he reasonably believed could result in his death or severe injury, and not on the man who illegally assaulted him.

 

[thanatos144]

Who shot Trayvon for being a thug? He was shot because he committed a violent act.

Oh, and there aren't any Zimmerman groupies, only Trayvon Groupies. You don't see us wearing Trayvon T-shirts.

If I had a son, he would look like Zimmerman.

if the truth be told if Obama had a son at probably look more like Zimmerman

 

[Pheonixops]

In this case, Zimmerman is innocent. The reason is that the jury ruled self-defense, which is not a crime. The initial police report showed that his wounds were consistent with what Zimmerman told police after the fact, which showed that he was not the aggressor.

Also, the state's prime witness reversed her lying court testimony of "Trayvon cried for help and the other guy was on top" to "Trayvon whooped cracka's ass." during her first post trial interview. This female lying is not uncommon in cases in which Al Sharpton inures witnesses repeatedly into the process of decimating a white person for living. He has come to the conclusion that if one is black, one is right, to hell with what the law says. And he somehow surrounds himself with the meconium of purile black persons who are urged to commit perjury against white people. He's full of rancor and hate.

Cases in which Sharpton involved himself: (1) Twanna Brawley lies about unknown white assailants (2) Chrystal Magnum lie about rape (Duke Lacrosse Team)

Black citizens have maggots like Sharpton fooling them, and that's why they get loser syndrome every time Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton step up to the plate. These men have made themselves disreputable over and over and over. When they take over with their smear campaigns and make everyone indignant, they take a lot of money home with them and live like kings. The nation needs to reconsider perjury laws and enforce them, and quit falling for blackmail threats of incitation of pandemic mob violence. It's time to call bluff and duke it out.

The black community will not heal itself if it gets a constant supply of federal support for bad behaviors.

I find that pretty ignorant and insulting; what percentage of the "Black community" do you think follows the likes of Sharpton and Jackson? Do you think that Black people can also be individuals who are capable of thinking for themselves?

What percentage of "the Black community" is receiving federal support? Is federal support solely for Black people?

I find that pretty ignorant and insulting;

Not following you down OffTopic Lane.

How is responding to specific points that you were trying to make, now suddenly "off topic"?

 

[Ernie S.]

What you and the press, and especially the Trayvon supporters did not talk about was that Trayvon was a thug. Kicked out of school for fighting, caught with stolen items, acting like a gangsta online and on film---basically abborant behavior.

Imagine if there was even ONE shread of evidence of Zimmerman doing any of these similar bad things, he would have been crucified for them.

When people start holding everyone to the same behavioral standards, America can move forward. But that won't happen.

So then what was TM doing at the time that was abborant ?

Assaulting Zimmerman? Yes. Animalistic, perhaps.

 

[Ernie S.]

The problem we have is there is a lot of woulda coulda shoulda and if this and if that. The problem we have just is not going to be salved until the mud slinging is over and everyone involved sits down and talks about what happened and why it happened. There are many issues involved here and IMO they should have never been made public.

We do have some public matters at hand that need to be addressed. We need for everyone to see that we are all made equal. Yes some have more problems then others. The problems that we all have need to be solved by ourselves. If we all take our own problems and take responsibility for them and not blame someone for them we all would be in a better state.

You see Zimmerman made a mistake and the press got a hold of the story and changed some facts and/or did not report the complete truth in the matter. By them doing this it has gotten so many people upset because the facts that were reported were not true and complete.

What mistake did Zimmerman make? OTher than not shooting that asshole sooner?

He did not ask TM if he needed help, or did not ask TM if he was in the area because he was visiting someone. Just by asking a simple question could have defused the whole matter. See here people that we don't know sometimes are waling around and just seem out of place. Everyone around here asks the person what there reason for be around is or asks if we could help them and no one even gets into a fight.

Zimmerman had no duty to confront Martin. As a matter of fact, when I was on Neighborhood Watch, we were advised not to confront, but to observe.
Now, before you start telling me that Neighborhood watch recommends that you not be armed on patrol, there is #1, no law prohibiting being armed on patrol and #2, Mr. Zimmerman was NOT on patrol. He was on his way to Target to do some shopping when he noticed Martin.

 

[Ernie S.]

If people dont get the facts right, they cannot get the case right.
Zimmerman was not on neighborhood watch. He was going out to the store. He did not follow Martin. He got out of the truck to see where he had gone because he had lost sight of him. Zimmerman did not confront Martin. Martin confronted Zimmerman and then punched him.
There was no sheriff. The chief of police was relieved of duty because of pressure from Washington over the case. The police on duty that night understood it was a good shoot, as did the district attorney. This is why they lethim go that night.
Once the facts are clarified the case becomes simple.

(My bold)

The chief of police, thanks.

Yah, the police & DA considered it a righteous shooting initially. Does the DA still have a job there? I still fault the chief of police for not considering how the shooting would look.

Once the MSM & yes, the Black activists started protesting how the case was handled, there was bound to be pressure for a thorough investigation. As I noted, collecting all the evidence immediately, from the site & from the subject & the shooter - might have substantiated Zimmerman's account or might not - either way, both defense & prosecution would have had better information to work with. Better info might have gotten us a definitive verdict, instead of the not guilty we have because the state couldn't make its case.

That - I'm convinced - if why we have all these people still reacting as if the shooting were taking place now, over & over. I think it's beside the point to argue the minutae of the case - it won't bring back Martin nor fix the mess that Zimmerman is facing.

In FL v. Zimmerman, it wasn't possible to please all the parties involved. From the POV of the state of FL, the best they could do was convince everyone that they had done their best to deliver justice. That should have been the focus of all the parties - but events & personalities got in the way.

Um, not guilty by reason of self defense IS a definitive verdict. It doesnt get any more definitive than that.
We aren't interested in pleasing all parties involved. We are interested in adjudicating a murder case and seeing justice done. Justice was done. Zimmerman was exhonerated in a self defense case. The people who are claiming otherwise are, frankly, race pimps and baiters.

What the Martinistas fail to realize is that in finding Zimmerman not guilty by virtue of self defense, they are in effect saying that no crime took place. This negated the argument that not guilty isn't the same as innocent.
Zimmerman is innocent simply due to the fact that no crime took place, other than Trayvon Martin assaulting George Zimmerman. It's unfortunate that he's not available for prosecution.

 

[Ernie S.]

Who shot Trayvon for being a thug? He was shot because he committed a violent act.

Oh, and there aren't any Zimmerman groupies, only Trayvon Groupies. You don't see us wearing Trayvon T-shirts.

If I had a son, he would look like Zimmerman.

I have 2 sons and a daughter all about Zimmerman's age. While they don't physically resemble Zimmerman that closely, they all resemble him in that they are usually strapped.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Just my humble opinion... both of those boys fucked up. It appears that George was able to convince a jury of his peers that he feared for his life when he pulled his trigger and that was the crux of the letter of the law.

I still think George bears a bit of the responsibility because Trayvon started the altercation by minding his own business and George is older. As the adult and the initiator, he was responsible for the outcome.

 

[Ernie S.]

I find that pretty ignorant and insulting; what percentage of the "Black community" do you think follows the likes of Sharpton and Jackson? Do you think that Black people can also be individuals who are capable of thinking for themselves?

What percentage of "the Black community" is receiving federal support? Is federal support solely for Black people?

I find that pretty ignorant and insulting;

Not following you down OffTopic Lane.

How is responding to specific points that you were trying to make, now suddenly "off topic"?

What percentage of "the Black community" is receiving federal support? Is federal support solely for Black people?

That part.

 

[Vox]

He did not ask TM if he needed help, or did not ask TM if he was in the area because he was visiting someone. Just by asking a simple question could have defused the whole matter. See here people that we don't know sometimes are waling around and just seem out of place. Everyone around here asks the person what there reason for be around is or asks if we could help them and no one even gets into a fight.

Yep. People invented rules of polite and well-mannered behavior exactly because it makes life safer and easier.

Too bad NOBODY ever teaches them and they are not considered necessary for upbringing the kids by the vast majority of Americans.
Neither of the participants ever were exposed to those rules, obviously.
And they could have saved Trayvon's life and not ruin George's life.