Texas Senate approves bills requiring 10 Commandments in K-12 classrooms, Bible time in school

[Foxfyre]

All evidence is to the contrary. Did you not advocate student led prayer?

Absolutely. My parents grew up with it. I grew up with it. My children grew up with it. My granddaughter grew up with it. And there was not one single incidence of violence in any schools any of us ever attended, we never were concerned about anybody's safety in school. It was a great comfort to the students to be able to share in a prayer for a sick or bereaved classmate or teacher or other concerns they might have as well as a unifying and moderating aspect of the student body in generic prayers at assemblies, sporting events etc. Ditto for a moment of silence to start the school day or for a troubling event or whatever.

No governing body mandated it. But it was the standard and wish of the community as they governed themselves.

For the government to forbid that is so opposed to the intent of the First Amendment I don't even know where to begin. Congress charges the taxpayers for the privilege of having a chaplain start its sessions. To deny the children the same benefit when it costs nobody anything or requires nothing of anyone has to come from a very bad place.

 

[badger2]

Where did you find this tidbit of information? Is it in the Constitution? No.

They are part of it as they are frequently taught as Christian doctrine. So basic Christian ethics in virtually all Christian disciplines do include the content of the Ten Commandments in some form. The Ten Commandments are Jewish, not Christian, but Jesus, a Jew himself, expressed them as God's law and they were quite easily incorporated into Christian doctrine as the Church formed and grew.

Islam also adopted the basics of the 10 Commandments into their doctrine with the exception of keeping the Sabbath.

The Ten Commandments are certainly not the whole of the Law in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam but they have been critical in religious theology for 3000+ years and a very large majority of us believe in the God who historically provided them to us. You don't get any more historical than that.

Can the government dictate we follow the 10 Commandments as they are written? No. And it should never have the power to do that. Can the government forbid the citizens from respecting the 10 Commandments and following them? No and it should never have the power to do that.

There will be more to say on this tomorrow when the texts are more handy.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Student led prayer is allowed as long as it is not disruptive to the class. An example. Lets say a classmate is in an accident and the school is having an assembly for the student. Now a teacher can not lead a prayer but if one of the students friends wishes to stand to lead a prayer, they may.

During a football game a player gets hurt. His team mates can pray for him

Do you get off on being wrong? You cannot address a crowd and lead them in prayer. Fact!

Prayers at assemblies are not allowed. Teammates praying together silently is not a problem.

At least according to my educational law professor you cannot.

 

[toobfreak]

I have you on ignore so I don't have to deal with your stupid ass.

I don't care.

If you don't like being shown to be a moron, I suggest you do the same.

Another empty threat from the Big Blowhole.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Absolutely. My parents grew up with it. I grew up with it. My children grew up with it. My granddaughter grew up with it. And there was not one single incidence of violence in any schools any of us ever attended, we never were concerned about anybody's safety in school. It was a great comfort to the students to be able to share in a prayer for a sick or bereaved classmate or teacher or other concerns they might have as well as a unifying and moderating aspect of the student body in generic prayers at assemblies, sporting events etc. Ditto for a moment of silence to start the school day or for a troubling event or whatever.

No governing body mandated it. But it was the standard and wish of the community as they governed themselves.

For the government to forbid that is so opposed to the intent of the First Amendment I don't even know where to begin.

That is because you are an idiot on this topic.

All of those schools you mentioned by allowing prayer were violating the establishment clause.

At the high school I taught in Florida about 25 years ago, we allowed student graduates to lead prayers at graduation ceremonies. It ended after a student led a "fire and brimstone", "you are all going to hell" commencement speech. Because we discontinued it, the lawsuits went nowhere. The rest of the school district followed suit.

 

[mak2]

That is because you are an idiot on this topic.

All of those schools you mentioned by allowing prayer were violating the establishment clause.

At the high school I taught in Florida about 25 years ago, we allowed student graduates to lead prayers at graduation ceremonies. It ended after a student led a "fire and brimstone", "you are all going to hell" commencement speech. Because we discontinued it, the lawsuits went nowhere. The rest of the school district followed suit.

sometimes you sound fairly rational.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

sometimes you sound fairly rational.

I am rational all the time. You stray from the course all the time.

 

[Foxfyre]

Where did you find this tidbit of information? Is it in the Constitution? No.

I have read and studied the founding documents and what we have of quotations by the founders from other historical documents. I also have studied the influence of religion on the inspiration of a people to seek liberty from an oppressive British government culminating in the signing of the Declaration of Independence. I am appalled that anybody teaching in the U.S. school system has not done that.

 

[pknopp]

Ok but what if it was a Muslim student or Hindu etc? Could a High School student lead a Satanist prayer?

While I disagree with the courts they have ruled against Satanist prayer. As I said, I disagree.

They most certainly could lead a Muslim prayer.

 

[Foxfyre]

That is because you are an idiot on this topic.

All of those schools you mentioned by allowing prayer were violating the establishment clause.

At the high school I taught in Florida about 25 years ago, we allowed student graduates to lead prayers at graduation ceremonies. It ended after a student led a "fire and brimstone", "you are all going to hell" commencement speech. Because we discontinued it, the lawsuits went nowhere. The rest of the school district followed suit.

How pathetic to end a long time and cherished, even beneficial tradition, because one inappropriate fool got out of line. Or bowing to the opportunistic and greedy lawsuits brought by the ACLU and other anti-religious groups to save a little time and money instead of fighting for our right to the free exercise of religion.

No wonder this country is so screwed up now and there is so much violence, hate, misery heaped by one American onto another.

I don't think I'm the idiot.

 

[pknopp]

Do you get off on being wrong? You cannot address a crowd and lead them in prayer. Fact!

A student can. A teacher can't.

A school can't institute a time of prayer for a student to lead a prayer. A student can on their own.

Prayers at assemblies are not allowed. Teammates praying together silently is not a problem.

At least according to my educational law professor you cannot.

School setting aside time for prayer us disallowed. If some kid simply rises on their own and being stopped would violate their rights.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I have read and studied the founding documents and what we have of quotations by the founders from other historical documents. I also have studied the influence of religion on the inspiration of a people to seek liberty from an oppressive British government culminating in the signing of the Declaration of Independence. I am appalled that anybody teaching in the U.S. school system has not done that.

The Supreme Court ruled on this issue numerous times. I suggest you acquaint yourself with them.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

How pathetic to end a long time and cherished, even beneficial tradition, because one inappropriate fool got out of line. Or bowing to the opportunistic and greedy lawsuits brought by the ACLU and other anti-religious groups to save a little time and money instead of fighting for our right to the free exercise of religion.

No wonder this country is so screwed up now and there is so much violence, hate, misery heaped by one American onto another.

I don't think I'm the idiot.

Giving a commencement prayer is NOT free exercise of religion. If you want to pray in the parking lot before of after, more power to you.

 

[Foxfyre]

Giving a commencement prayer is NOT free exercise of religion. If you want to pray in the parking lot before of after, more power to you.

Repeating yourself over and over does not make you or me convincing. So I'll just refer you to my other posts and wish you a pleasant afternoon.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Repeating yourself over and over does not make you or me convincing. So I'll just refer you to my other posts and wish you a pleasant afternoon.

Why don't you look at the SCOTUS rulings? Are you scared you will be shown to be an idiot on this topic?

Here! I will give you some places to start:

Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421 (1962)

Kennedy v. Bremerton School District, No. 21-418

Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U.S. 602 (1971)​

Wisconsin v. Jonas Yoder, 406 U.S. 205 (1972),

 

[badger2]

This thread focuses on Ten Commandments. Firstly, the adjective "the" is incorrect. There are four sets of commandments. Next, the number of commandments is incorrect.

If Moses received the most important set, why did he destroy them? These were direct, god-given commandments.

'Moses descended the mount to present the people with their god's perfect law only to find them worshipping a golden calf, an idol. Moses was so furious that his followers would break one of the commandments - a commandment on which they had not yet been instructed - that he smashed the stone tablets. The only physical evidence that a divine being had visited this world was in his hands. The most priceless object in all history and possibly proof that god exists, yet the religious leader destroyed it....before any of his followers got a chance to examine or even read it.

This is suspicious, reckless - and a convenient dodge. Joseph Smith used a similar ploy when dictating the Book of Mormon. Smith claimed he discovered two golden plates etched with reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics. An angel led him to the plates but also decreed that Smith could not show the plates to anyone. He translated the story on the plates using a hat and a magic seeing stone. Smith returned the plates to the angel after his translation was complete. All the priceless physical evidence of divine existence was destroyed or returned to the divine plane.'
(Seidel, The Founding Myth: Why Christian Nationalism is Un-American, Ch. 13 The Ten Commandments v. the Constitution, Which Ten?)

 

[Kondor3]

A good start!!!

The Texas Senate approved a bill Thursday that would require public schools in the state to prominently display the Ten Commandments in every classroom, starting next school year, The Texas Tribune reports. The bill's sponsor, state Sen. Phil King (R), argued earlier this month that the Ten Commandments are part of American heritage, and his legislation "will remind students all across Texas of the importance of the fundamental foundation of America."

Texas Senate approves bills requiring 10 Commandments in K-12 classrooms, Bible time in school

Texas Senate approves bills requiring 10 Commandments in K-12 classrooms, Bible time in school

www.yahoo.com

They're playing a Charlton Heston movie in all classrooms? Cool.

 

[Kondor3]

This thread focuses on Ten Commandments. Firstly, the adjective "the" is incorrect. There are four sets of commandments. Next, the number of commandments is incorrect.

If Moses received the most important set, why did he destroy them? These were direct, god-given commandments.

'Moses descended the mount to present the people with their god's perfect law only to find them worshipping a golden calf, an idol. Moses was so furious that his followers would break one of the commandments - a commandment on which they had not yet been instructed - that he smashed the stone tablets. The only physical evidence that a divine being had visited this world was in his hands. The most priceless object in all history and possibly proof that god exists, yet the religious leader destroyed it....before any of his followers got a chance to examine or even read it.

This is suspicious, reckless - and a convenient dodge. Joseph Smith used a similar ploy when dictating the Book of Mormon. Smith claimed he discovered two golden plates etched with reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics. An angel led him to the plates but also decreed that Smith could not show the plates to anyone. He translated the story on the plates using a hat and a magic seeing stone. Smith returned the plates to the angel after his translation was complete. All the priceless physical evidence of divine existence was destroyed or returned to the divine plane.'
(Seidel, The Founding Myth: Why Christian Nationalism is Un-American, Ch. 13 The Ten Commandments v. the Constitution, Which Ten?)

OMG... a worldwide Jewish Kornspiracy, eh? I've got two words for that... Puhhhhh --- leeeeezzze !

 

[badger2]

OMG... a worldwide Jewish Kornspiracy, eh? I've got two words for that... Puhhhhh --- leeeeezzze !

You've got a choice of being twice-wrong. 1.) American was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. 2.) America was founded upon Christian principles.

 

[badger2]

They're playing a Charlton Heston movie in all classrooms? Cool.

Many Americans' knowledge of the Ten Commandments comes from Cecil B. DeMille and Charlton Heston and their Hollywood epic. DeMille often felt accused of "gingering up the Bible with large infusions of sex and violence. He said of these allegations, "I can only wonder if my accusers have ever read certain parts of the Bible. If they have, they must have read them through the stained-glass telescope which centuries of tradition and form have put between us and the men and women of flesh and blood who lived and wrote the Bible."

Despite this insight, DeMille could not shatter Americans' stained-glass view. DeMille's influence sadly means that most Americans, like Justice Scalia, are ignorant about the commandments. It also means that the first set of ten, which appear so prominently in DeMille's epic, is likely what most Americans think of when they think of the Decalogue.

And although Protestants are no longer a majority of citizens, most religious Americans are Protestant; so for the purposes of this book, let's use the Protestant interpretation of the first set to answer, in the next eight chapters, the apparently unanswerable question: which Ten?'
(Seidel, op cit)