Some Lawmakers Are Making The Separation Of Church And State Seem Like A Total Joke

[Billy_Kinetta]

We are governed by the Constitution - not private letters.

Then why was a mis-read letter given Constitutional weight?

 

[The Rabbi]

How could any sane person ignore the intentions of the founding fathers?

Theocracy Watch - Separation of Church and State

You just wrote we dont make laws based on letters but the Constitution and I pointed out the phrase "separation of church and state" comes from a letter, not the Constitution.
You are truly fucking retarded.

 

[Auld Phart]

Good question,

Are you remarking on your own sanity?

" or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

 

[NYcarbineer]

as creepy as anti-religious nuts?

The Danbury letter, which actually mentioned separation of Church and State, was written as a private letter by Jefferson, 15 years after the signing of the Constitution.

Let's just pop both letters in here, shall we?

From The Danbury Baptists Association to Jefferson:

The Danbury Baptist s letter to Jefferson

"Our sentiments are uniformly on the side of religious
liberty--that religion is at all times and places a matter
between God and individuals--that no man ought to suffer in name,
person, or effects on account of his religious opinions--that the
legitimate power of civil government extends no further than to
punish the man who works ill to his neighbors; But, sir, our
constitution of government is not specific. Our ancient charter
together with the law made coincident therewith, were adopted as
the basis of our government, at the time of our revolution; and
such had been our laws and usages, and such still are; that
religion is considered as the first object of legislation; and
therefore what religious privileges we enjoy (as a minor part of
the state) we enjoy as favors granted, and not as inalienable
rights; and these favors we receive at the expense of such
degrading acknowledgements as are inconsistent with the rights of
freemen. It is not to be wondered at therefore; if those who seek
after power and gain under the pretense of government and
religion should reproach their fellow men--should reproach their
order magistrate, as a enemy of religion, law, and good order,
because he will not, dare not, assume the prerogatives of Jehovah
and make laws to govern the kingdom of Christ"

And Jefferson's response:

Jefferson s Letter to the Danbury Baptists June 1998 - Library of Congress Information Bulletin

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.
_____________________________________________

Even a cursory reading shows that Jefferson was responding to expressed fears of the Danbury Baptists that religious rights were merely granted by legislation, and not inalienable. The government is prohibited by the Constitution from interfering with religion or its lawful expressions. The "separation" so oft-quoted by the Left protects religion from government, and in no way bans the government or government officials from religious expression. It merely prohibits the government from establishing a State religion, and prohibits it from repressing the expression of religion.

"... the legitimate powers of government reach actions only..."

What Jefferson was saying is that the government can exercise its power over actions coming out of a religion.

In other words, yes you have the right to your faith and your beliefs, but don't think you can do anything you please in the name of those beliefs.

 

[Lakhota]

 

[Lakhota]

 

[Kondor3]

...Any decent, red-blooded American politician loves the Constitution...

Not to worry... savage-folk will not be burned at the stake as heretics... once they give up their casinos.

 

[Lakhota]

 

[Lakhota]

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Just remember that Muslims have as much right to hold political office in America as Christians.

Indeed, but in these times, their chances are slim to none.

 

[Lakhota]

 

[Auld Phart]

Did he ever that that religion should be prohibited?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Who said they didn't?

as for being a religious nut, I haven't been in a church, other than weddings, funerals, christenings, and baptisms, (and very few of them), for close to 50 years.

Me neither.

 

[Auld Phart]

Did he ever that that religion should be prohibited?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

How could any sane person ignore the intentions of the founding fathers?

Theocracy Watch - Separation of Church and State

That's a very interesting site in a crazy sort of way. I shall have to peruse that sometime.

 

[Lakhota]

Ronald Reagan on Separation of Church and State

We in the United States, above all, must remember that lesson, for we were founded as a nation of openness to people of all beliefs. And so we must remain. Our very unity has been strengthened by our pluralism. We establish no religion in this country, we command no worship, we mandate no belief, nor will we ever. Church and state are, and must remain, separate. All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith or not, and those who believe are free, and should be free, to speak of and act on their belief.- Ronald Reagan, Speech to Temple Hillel and Community Leaders in Valley Stream (October 26, 1984)​

Read more: Ronald Reagan on Separation of Church and State - Atheist Revolution

Even Reagan understood the separation.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

"... the legitimate powers of government reach actions only..."

What Jefferson was saying is that the government can exercise its power over actions coming out of a religion.

In other words, yes you have the right to your faith and your beliefs, but don't think you can do anything you please in the name of those beliefs.

Precisely. Otherwise unlawful expressions such as human sacrifice could be prohibited.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Ronald Reagan on Separation of Church and State

We in the United States, above all, must remember that lesson, for we were founded as a nation of openness to people of all beliefs. And so we must remain. Our very unity has been strengthened by our pluralism. We establish no religion in this country, we command no worship, we mandate no belief, nor will we ever. Church and state are, and must remain, separate. All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith or not, and those who believe are free, and should be free, to speak of and act on their belief.- Ronald Reagan, Speech to Temple Hillel and Community Leaders in Valley Stream (October 26, 1984)​

Read more: Ronald Reagan on Separation of Church and State - Atheist Revolution

Even Reagan understood the separation.

Indeed. The State cannot establish an official religion.

 

[Auld Phart]

Ronald Reagan on Separation of Church and State

We in the United States, above all, must remember that lesson, for we were founded as a nation of openness to people of all beliefs. And so we must remain. Our very unity has been strengthened by our pluralism. We establish no religion in this country, we command no worship, we mandate no belief, nor will we ever. Church and state are, and must remain, separate. All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith or not, and those who believe are free, and should be free, to speak of and act on their belief.- Ronald Reagan, Speech to Temple Hillel and Community Leaders in Valley Stream (October 26, 1984)

Read more: Ronald Reagan on Separation of Church and State - Atheist Revolution

Even Reagan understood the separation.

Hilarious

"All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith or not, and those who believe are free, and should be free, to speak of and act on their belief.-"

Sounds like he didn't believe in prohibiting it, either

 

[Lakhota]

Ronald Reagan on Separation of Church and State

We in the United States, above all, must remember that lesson, for we were founded as a nation of openness to people of all beliefs. And so we must remain. Our very unity has been strengthened by our pluralism. We establish no religion in this country, we command no worship, we mandate no belief, nor will we ever. Church and state are, and must remain, separate. All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith or not, and those who believe are free, and should be free, to speak of and act on their belief.- Ronald Reagan, Speech to Temple Hillel and Community Leaders in Valley Stream (October 26, 1984)

Read more: Ronald Reagan on Separation of Church and State - Atheist Revolution

Even Reagan understood the separation.

Hilarious

"All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith or not, and those who believe are free, and should be free, to speak of and act on their belief.-"

Sounds like he didn't believe in prohibiting it, either

Some more food for thought:

Putting Reagan's Church & State Quote In Context Shows A Hypocrisy - Secular Left