Teen pregnancy rate up after 10-year decline

[Dr Gregg]

Funny, both of those arguments were mine in this very thread and I have never seen anyone at all state that Planned Parenthood wants to make abortions as unnoticeable as haircuts. So, it appears to me that in this thread, it is you that are lying when you claim you were not addressing my posts.

Immie

Oh, by the way, where do you see name calling here? Oversensitive much?


Why can't anti-choice people be honest? I mean come on. If there wasn't anti choice movement, abortions would be like haircuts? You seriously believe that tripe? it's not an easy decision for anybody ,and there can be health risks involved, so nobody takes it lightly. tHat's just another anti-choice argument

also the "abortion is a business" like PP is pushing for abortions, when they help prevent them by supplying affordable birth control and counseling and education for people that are thinking or are having sex. Plus, its a non-profit organization, so I hardly see how they are in the business of abortion.


Caught in another lie. THis is fun

Oh, you don't consider "anti-choicer" to be a pejorative? and when you ask why I can't be honest, you are calling me a liar.

But, I'm sure you meant it with the most sincere love.

Immie

Wow, that's a stretch. I consider anti-choice to be the more accurate description, hardly name calling. my oh my

 

[Dr Gregg]

Love the forum rules by the way, I'm going to use this every time someone comes in with name calling

"Derogatory statements directed at other members as well as direct or indirect personal attacks are permitted with the stipulation that you generally look like a fool when resorting to these tactics within a serious conversation on real issues. If you're comfortable playing the fool, feel free to do so. "

I like this place already

 

[Old Rocks]

Abstinence doesn't work now...

It doesn't? Last time I checked, it was the only 100% method to prevent one's self from getting pregnant.

-TSO

LOL. Not at all. It is the 50% method. After all, half of the teens are male.

 

[Modbert]

Figures the thread has moved away from the concrete numbers showing why the abstinence-only programs are completely wrong and onto why PP is some evil abortion factory.

 

[Anguille]

Get the Facts - Planned Parenthood Action Center



Protecting Abortion Access - Planned Parenthood


Your quotes directly contradict what you claim, that PP is not concerned with governmental interference in a woman's right to chose what she will do with her pregnancy.

PP does not promote abortion. PP minimizes the number of abortions performed by providing birth control and reproductive health education.

Abortion is legal in the US. Get used to it.

I never once claimed that PP didn't fight against government intervention. I said that PP promotes abortion on demand without any limits and that PP does nothing to limit the number of abortions.

Please quit trying to put words in my mouth.

By the way, an organization that was trying to promote abortion would need to eliminate governmental intervention completely.

Immie

Backtracking and tap dancing as fast as you are, Immie, you need to be more careful not to trip yourself up.

 

[Luissa]

You quoted her, she was quoting me. You were clearly insinuating that I believe the woman must be punished somehow. Which is not true.

Immie

So you claim. But your posts say otherwise.
So now, what aout your proof that PP lobbies for abortion.

Get the Facts - Planned Parenthood Action Center

We need health care reform, and we need it now — but women can’t afford new restrictions on abortion coverage. Tell Congress to pass health care reform immediately — and protect women’s access to comprehensive reproductive care.

Protecting Abortion Access - Planned Parenthood

Access to abortion is legal, constitutionally protected, and consistently supported by a majority of Americans; yet anti-choice organizations and policymakers have made it increasingly harder for women to access needed care. Anti-choice hardliners erode access to abortion through court battles, ballot measures, and burdensome legislative restrictions on abortion services — some extremists even resort to intimidation, harassment, and violence against women and health care providers.

Planned Parenthood fights these anti-choice efforts on every level. From courthouses to statehouses to Capitol Hill to the grassroots, we work to protect access to reproductive health care through education of elected officials, litigation, and mobilization of our more than four million activists, donors, and supporters.

Planned Parenthood advocacy efforts address:

# removing restrictions on abortion access
# expanding the number of abortion providers
# ensuring access to confidential health care for young women
# Medical and Social Health Benefits Since Abortion Was Made Legal in the U.S.

Funny, but I have never seen an argument by Planned Parenthood about minimizing the number of abortions. It is always about providing access and more access, reducing restrictions and eliminating those hated "anti-choicers".

Immie

I would rather have my daughter have better access than kill herself. Of course my daughter if I ever have one, would know she could come to me.That would not be true for some parents. And as for funding, if you can't afford PP you think they are just going to stop there if they really want an abortion?

 

[Immanuel]

Nope, I wasn't addressing you specifically. Lying once again. In fact, you called me an idiot, when you clearly couldn't read and comprehend what I wrote and who I was referring to. And clearly my dishonest statement fits you to a tee, even though I wasn't speaking of you directly.

Funny, both of those arguments were mine in this very thread and I have never seen anyone at all state that Planned Parenthood wants to make abortions as unnoticeable as haircuts. So, it appears to me that in this thread, it is you that are lying when you claim you were not addressing my posts.

Immie

Oh, by the way, where do you see name calling here? Oversensitive much?


Why can't anti-choice people be honest? I mean come on. If there wasn't anti choice movement, abortions would be like haircuts? You seriously believe that tripe? it's not an easy decision for anybody ,and there can be health risks involved, so nobody takes it lightly. tHat's just another anti-choice argument

also the "abortion is a business" like PP is pushing for abortions, when they help prevent them by supplying affordable birth control and counseling and education for people that are thinking or are having sex. Plus, its a non-profit organization, so I hardly see how they are in the business of abortion.


Caught in another lie. THis is fun

I suppose if I called you "Pro-abortion" and asked why you were not honest, you would think that I was being friendly.

I don't believe you are pro-abortion and I would not say you were, but if I called you such, it would not be because I thought all that highly of you.

I personally don't like being called anti-choice. I find it to be the insult you intended it to be. Quite frankly, I am not "Anti-choice". I am Anti-this-choice and I am not for over turning Roe v. Wade as that won't solve the problem. I am Anti-this-choice because I believe that the highest responsibility of the government is to protect life.

I AM for eliminating abortions through among other things, sex education and that includes teaching that abstinence is not only an acceptable way to prevent abortions, but also an achievable way. But, abstinence should not be taught alone.

I am not for punishing the woman who found herself in dire straights and chose that avenue. That is for her and God to work out and I believe in a forgiving God. I have known women who have had abortions and I choose my words carefully around them for fear of hurting them. Nor would I inhibit a woman approaching an abortion clinic even a PP clinic. First, one never knows why she is there. It may have nothing to do with abortion. I pray for the woman and the child, but I would never accost the woman.

I must also confess to having counseled a woman to chose abortion if she felt it was the best thing to do. I do regret that.

I dislike PP as you can tell but I have maintained this conversation with you, Ang and Coyote because it is a way for me to learn. I believe that PP is pro-abortion. That belief has not yet changed, but seven years ago, I believed that anyone (such as yourself) that promoted abortion on demand supported the murder of innocent children and quite frankly, I will say, I thought they were more than a little thrilled about the "choice".

Through the last seven years, I have come to realize that this is not the case. There are many reasons that people chose to be pro-choice. I know no one either in person or on one of these sites that is truly pro-abortion. Pro-choice people chose to support abortion for the same reason that I chose to support civil unions, because they believe that the government should stay out of this decision.

I can't argue with that particular argument. The one thing that keeps me from being on your side of this issue is that I believe the government should defend all life including the life of an innocent child. I cannot get over that belief and pray that I never will.

I owe you an apology, but at the moment, I'm too stubborn to offer it.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

I never once claimed that PP didn't fight against government intervention. I said that PP promotes abortion on demand without any limits and that PP does nothing to limit the number of abortions.

Please quit trying to put words in my mouth.

By the way, an organization that was trying to promote abortion would need to eliminate governmental intervention completely.

Immie

Backtracking and tap dancing as fast as you are, Immie, you need to be more careful not to trip yourself up.

Get over your ass kicking girl. You'll feel better.

Immie

 

[Dr Gregg]

Backtracking and tap dancing as fast as you are, Immie, you need to be more careful not to trip yourself up.

Get over your ass kicking girl. You'll feel better.

Immie

Ah, must be nice to live in your own world. how many times you going to say this? yawn

 

[Modbert]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWuYV-1s4_I]YouTube - Elvis Presley - Trouble[/ame]

 

[Anguille]

Get over your ass kicking girl. You'll feel better.

Immie

Ah, must be nice to live in your own world. how many times you going to say this? yawn

 

[Dr Gregg]

Funny, both of those arguments were mine in this very thread and I have never seen anyone at all state that Planned Parenthood wants to make abortions as unnoticeable as haircuts. So, it appears to me that in this thread, it is you that are lying when you claim you were not addressing my posts.

Immie

Oh, by the way, where do you see name calling here? Oversensitive much?


Why can't anti-choice people be honest? I mean come on. If there wasn't anti choice movement, abortions would be like haircuts? You seriously believe that tripe? it's not an easy decision for anybody ,and there can be health risks involved, so nobody takes it lightly. tHat's just another anti-choice argument

also the "abortion is a business" like PP is pushing for abortions, when they help prevent them by supplying affordable birth control and counseling and education for people that are thinking or are having sex. Plus, its a non-profit organization, so I hardly see how they are in the business of abortion.


Caught in another lie. THis is fun

I suppose if I called you "Pro-abortion" and asked why you were not honest, you would think that I was being friendly.

I don't believe you are pro-abortion and I would not say you were, but if I called you such, it would not be because I thought all that highly of you.

I personally don't like being called anti-choice. I find it to be the insult you intended it to be. Quite frankly, I am not "Anti-choice". I am Anti-this-choice and I am not for over turning Roe v. Wade as that won't solve the problem. I am Anti-this-choice because I believe that the highest responsibility of the government is to protect life.

I AM for eliminating abortions through among other things, sex education and that includes teaching that abstinence is not only an acceptable way to prevent abortions, but also an achievable way. But, abstinence should not be taught alone.

I am not for punishing the woman who found herself in dire straights and chose that avenue. That is for her and God to work out and I believe in a forgiving God. I have known women who have had abortions and I choose my words carefully around them for fear of hurting them. Nor would I inhibit a woman approaching an abortion clinic even a PP clinic. First, one never knows why she is there. It may have nothing to do with abortion. I pray for the woman and the child, but I would never accost the woman.

I must also confess to having counseled a woman to chose abortion if she felt it was the best thing to do. I do regret that.

I dislike PP as you can tell but I have maintained this conversation with you, Ang and Coyote because it is a way for me to learn. I believe that PP is pro-abortion. That belief has not yet changed, but seven years ago, I believed that anyone (such as yourself) that promoted abortion on demand supported the murder of innocent children and quite frankly, I will say, I thought they were more than a little thrilled about the "choice".

Through the last seven years, I have come to realize that this is not the case. There are many reasons that people chose to be pro-choice. I know no one either in person or on one of these sites that is truly pro-abortion. Pro-choice people chose to support abortion for the same reason that I chose to support civil unions, because they believe that the government should stay out of this decision.

I can't argue with that particular argument. The one thing that keeps me from being on your side of this issue is that I believe the government should defend all life including the life of an innocent child. I cannot get over that belief and pray that I never will.

I owe you an apology, but at the moment, I'm too stubborn to offer it.

Immie

See, this is a good response, and I'm not going to give you shit for this, not sure where some of the other posts come from when you are capable of this.

 

[Immanuel]

I would rather have my daughter have better access than kill herself.

Amen to that!

Of course my daughter if I ever have one, would know she could come to me.

As do my daughters. They know that I love and support them and would under any situation including a crisis pregnancy. I'm sure they know that I would defend the life of the child and counsel at the very least adoption, but they know that we, my wife and I, would support their decision either way.

That would not be true for some parents. And as for funding, if you can't afford PP you think they are just going to stop there if they really want an abortion?

Me? Wait a damned minute. No one said, I had to pay for their abortion!

The threat of "back alley" abortions doesn't work anymore. Today we have RU-486 and we all know even the poor can get any kind of drugs they want. But, even that is not the best alternative.

The best alternative is to keep abortion as a "tough" choice. One that is not easily made and quite frankly, I see PP as attempting to make it an easy choice. That is why I hate PP and NOW and NARAL. They don't talk about limiting the number of abortions they talk about eliminating the restrictions and that is where I have a problem.

The best solution is education but neither side wants to educate, both sides want to use their propaganda and win at all costs even the cost of lives.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Get over your ass kicking girl. You'll feel better.

Immie

Ah, must be nice to live in your own world. how many times you going to say this? yawn

It is a little bit of ribbing. She is my friend and I thought she used to consider me a friend. Now she's got something terrible against me (I favor the rights of property owners over non-smokers) and it seems she wants to throw everything but the kitchen sink at me.

I'm not going to let up until she is laughing again.

Immie

 

[Anguille]

An otherwise honest post but I'm not buying this:

Nor would I inhibit a woman approaching an abortion clinic even a PP clinic.

Because of this:

I'd hate (love) to see the look on your face when an abortion provider opens up a practice next to you..

That would be great! A perfect opportunity to witness to and care for the young ladies in need and for an opportunity to get to know the providers and their assistants in a non-confrontational manner.

Care for? I don't think they are looking for your "care" or whatever you might call your meddling.

 

[Immanuel]

An otherwise honest post but I'm not buying this:

Nor would I inhibit a woman approaching an abortion clinic even a PP clinic.

Because of this:

I'd hate (love) to see the look on your face when an abortion provider opens up a practice next to you..

That would be great! A perfect opportunity to witness to and care for the young ladies in need and for an opportunity to get to know the providers and their assistants in a non-confrontational manner.

Care for? I don't think they are looking for your "care" or whatever you might call your meddling.

My response to your first post about an abortion clinic next door was more or less of a joke. It is not going to happen.

But, I would never accost a woman entering a clinic. That is not my style. Call me a chicken if you will, but a young woman in a crisis pregnancy is in no state of mind to have someone hurling insults at her as she enters the clinic. I don't believe it helps at all.

Sure, I can sit here and decry the injustice of abortion. I can march in a "Walk for life". I can offer a home for a woman in need, but to approach a woman who is already at wit's end and tell her she is getting ready to kill the child within her? Can't do that. I can only pray that God will give her a way out.

1 Cor 10:13

13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

I can pray for her to make a decision for life. I cannot make that decision for her.

edit:

As for "caring for", what I meant there was to offer love and support for the woman that is in need: a temporary home, food, clothing, love, just a place to go to think. Sometimes those who are not sure about the choice just need someone to give them hope!

Immie

 

[Coyote]

I didn't say they equated it to getting a haircut. I said that they want to make it like getting a haircut

I'm not sure I see the difference....

Yes, they are asking us to be silent. They want us to go away and leave them to their "choice". No, it should never be nothing more than getting a haircut. That is why this issue needs to be kept in the forefront of the political climate because when it becomes a non-issue, it becomes nothing more than getting a haircut.

I agree with the sentiment, but I also think that Planned Parenthood is right to try to remove the stigma of shame from such a difficult choice.

You have not been reading the thread, because I have stated several times in this very thread that pro-choice people are more concerned with governmental intervention than they are with abortion, but Planned Parenthood is a business and they profit from abortion. They lobby for abortion. They lobby for abortion, not against governmental intervention, but for abortion and that is where the difference lies.

You're right - I haven't read the whole thread, when threads very quickly run up to 20 pages - I don't try to read the whole thing. Mea Culpa.

Pro-Choice view: how can you seperate concern for government intervention from abortion itself?

It seems like the most vocal of Pro-Choicers lobby more for keeping abortion safe and legal than for providing oppertunities and support for mother's to keep and raise their children or give them up for adoption. But I see the same thing in Pro-Life activists: there is considerable activism to end abortion, but a resounding silence when it comes to after the child is born. What is needed is for the more moderate and less strident of both camps to come together with realistic solutions to help encourage women to keep their pregnancies - encourage not mandate. Is this what you mean by "are more concerned with governmental intervention than they are with abortion"?

On Planned Parenthood - as they are a business they are also concerned with providing education, diagnosis and treatment for STD's and contraception. Those aspects also go into their profit line - not just abortion.

From Wikipedia:

Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA), commonly shortened Planned Parenthood, is the U.S. affiliate of the International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF) and one of its larger members. PPFA provides reproductive health and maternal and child health services. Planned Parenthood Action Fund, Inc. (PPAF) is a related organization that lobbies the U.S. political system for pro-choice legislation, comprehensive sex education, and access to affordable health care.[3]​

And, also from the same source:

PPFA is a federation of 89 independent Planned Parenthood affiliates around the United States. These affiliates together operate 850 locations, offering a variety of information and procedures to more than three million people, including: abortion, contraceptive (birth control); emergency contraception; screening for breast, cervical and testicular cancers; pregnancy testing and pregnancy options counseling; testing and treatment for sexually transmitted diseases; comprehensive sexuality education, menopause treatments; vasectomies and tubal ligations, and more. Not all procedures are available at all locations.

Planned Parenthood describes itself as "the nation's leading sexual and reproductive health care advocate and provider." In 2007, contraception constituted 36% of total services, STI/STD testing and treatment constituted 31%, cancer testing and screening constituted 17%; other women's health procedures, including pregnancy, prenatal, midlife, and infertility were 11%, and approximately 3% of total procedures involved surgical and medical abortions.[6] Planned Parenthood affiliates performed 305,310 medical and surgical abortions in 2007, up from 289,750 in 2006.[7]​

As for lobbying for abortion - can you give me some examples because I'm not seeing that anywhere. I'm seeing them lobbying for a woman's right to choose, and to keep abortion safe and legal. That is not lobbying "for abortion".

 

[Immanuel]

In reply to Coyote post #297:

The difference (haircut v. abortion) is that they have never said that they want to make abortions as easy as getting a haircut, but their policies are designed to produce that effect.

I understand the idea of removing the stigma of abortion, but doing so will as I have stated make abortion a no-brainer and that is to be avoided. Abortion should remain something that troubles a woman/couple. We should never allow society to be desensitized to abortion as we have with sex and other issues.

I have no desire to punish the woman any more than she has already agonized over the decision, but I am fearful that removing the stigma will eventually make abortion little different than getting a haircut, just as society has become desensitized to sex outside of marriage, killing etc.

It seems like the most vocal of Pro-Choicers lobby more for keeping abortion safe and legal than for providing oppertunities and support for mother's to keep and raise their children or give them up for adoption. But I see the same thing in Pro-Life activists: there is considerable activism to end abortion, but a resounding silence when it comes to after the child is born. What is needed is for the more moderate and less strident of both camps to come together with realistic solutions to help encourage women to keep their pregnancies - encourage not mandate.

I agree, I see both sides as wanting an all or nothing solution. Neither side strives (beyond lip service) for the middle ground of promoting adoption and how to support the woman involved in a crisis pregnancy after she decides to save the life of the child.

Is this what you mean by "are more concerned with governmental intervention than they are with abortion"?

In reference to whom?

Pro-choice people (not involved in the business of abortion) are more concerned with governmental intervention than abortion itself. They take a libertarian view of the issue. "I do not believe in abortion but I do not think the government belongs in this very difficult decision that a woman must make."

I am sorry to say but the people who are involved in the business of abortion are also concerned about governmental intervention but for different reasons and they all have $ in front of them.

As for the PPFA revenue percentages, I think Wikipedia ought to have those numbers examined for reality. I do not have time to search for accurate numbers also revenues do not always equate to profit.

As for lobbying, I'm not seeing safe legal and rare as anymore than a "campaign slogan". Their words and actions speak much more clearly... abortion on demand for any and all reasons... keep your morality/government out of my womb etc. etc. etc. This is not about making abortion "safe legal and rare". It is about $

Immie

 

[uscitizen]

Where you trying to go with that?
I mean, God forbid women have access to birth control and pap smears, because that what a majority of the women who are going to PP are getting.
You like to believe the lies of people who have never gone through an abortion, and will do anything to shut Planned Parenthood down.

That is funny.

I have never asked to have Planned Parenthood shut down.

I don't want them shut down. They provide services that are needed, but they are also the ones who are in the forefront of making abortion commonplace not to mention as acceptable as eating out at a diner.

Immie

Women have been hiding abortions for a long time, and many have died from lack of access. It also won't go away if you don't talk about it, and especially not if it isn't acceptable. And when you have an abortion, it is nothing like going out to dinner.

What no drive thru abortion clinics?

Would you like Fries with that abortion?

America is so behind the times.

 

[Coyote]

That is funny.

I have never asked to have Planned Parenthood shut down.

I don't want them shut down. They provide services that are needed, but they are also the ones who are in the forefront of making abortion commonplace not to mention as acceptable as eating out at a diner.

Immie

Women have been hiding abortions for a long time, and many have died from lack of access. It also won't go away if you don't talk about it, and especially not if it isn't acceptable. And when you have an abortion, it is nothing like going out to dinner.

What no drive thru abortion clinics?

Would you like Fries with that abortion?

America is so behind the times.

Got to resist...got to resist


This is so utterly tasteless, but as an irreverent animal I simply can't resist the opening....


Would the Octo-mom be supersizing it?


(you can all now tell me to shut up )