So can we all please agree

[rightwinger]

Once and for all, any American and pretty much any human alive in the US today can obtain FREE CONTRACEPTIVES.

Ok? I'm tired of having to deal with nitwits in every single discussion about reproductive issues who claim women can't obtain birth control unless we 1. Allow abortion 2. Mandate birth control or 3. Force the churches to subsidize birth control (which includes abortion).

On multiple occasions I have had to post information, generally to the same people (chris) (rdean) (various and assorted lesbian buddhists and the like) confirming and providing contact information for free clinics in pretty much every community in the US.

So can we just all accept that birth control is available in the US, including for NOTHING, and move on? You can still argue other points idiotically, but please just let that one particular argument (people can't obtain birth control! OMG! However will they kill their babies????) die a natural death.

I know you are also adverse to natural death...I'll rephrase it...

Will you please euthanize, or abort, the mantra "women can't access birth control!"

Really?

Why do millions of Americans pay for birth control then? You need to get the word out

Drug stores need to stop selling condoms....after all, they are free

Free family planning, pelvics, birth control:
Planned Parenthood

1001 Connecticut Ave NW, Washington, DC 20036
http://www.plannedparenthood.org

(202) 464-3280

FREE CONDOMS IN DC:

DOH: Free Condom Locations

OK Conservatives....here's the deal

Either you want Planned Parenthood or you don't

You can't scream to defund Planned Parenthood one week and then say insurance does not need to pay for birth control because we have Planned Parenthood the next

 

[wjmacguffin]

Did the organization decide where they would work?




We are. We believe in individual rights and...(gasp!) religious freedom! The whole darned Constitution, and not just part of it!

We believe an individual should be free to work wherever they want, and if they knowingly take a job with an organization whose dogma is well known, they should not demand the religious freedom of their employer be violated.

The Constitution protects individual liberty. Obama's plan allows individuals to make a religious choice. Therefore, it protects religious liberty. YOUR plan is to force one particular religious view on people. That's a violation of their constitutional rights.

How is a church not giving you birth control forcing their beliefs on you?

I can't wait to hear this one.

And this is not forcing contraception on anyone. It forces insurance companies (not the Church!) into OFFERING birth control. Offering is not the same as forcing. The Church's rights are not violated with this law anymore than it gets violated when parish members purchase birth control.

It does not force insurance companies, dipshit. It forces EMPLOYERS. Like the Catholic Church.

You are truly an idiot. You cannot grasp the difference between FORCE and OFFER. Let me try to spell this out with small words. You are driving down the road and reach an intersection. You can turn left, right, or go straight. This intersection is not forcing anything on you; it offers you the choice. In fact, you can turn around and not make the choice if that's what you want.

Now, what if you wanted to go straight but the police forced you to make a right because they didn't want you driving straight. Not because it's dangerous or anything, simply because they feel a right turn is correct.

There. FORCE does not equal OFFER. It still comes down to an individual's choice.

And I am NOT saying the Church should give me anything! I am saying that organizations outside of church parishes run by the Church should OFFER a choice and let me make it. The plan will only require the Church offer a choice. That's it. That's all. Choice. Allow people to make their own choices.

Get it? I doubt it.

 

[koshergrl]

So..the catholic church is being OFFERED the choice of whether or not to fund birth control for Georgetown students?

Pfft...

 

[Old Rocks]

'Conservatives' are not known for logic or consistantcy. Mostly just for loud illogical rants. But let's all give them the high five. A bit more of the same, and it will be a Democratic President, Congress, and Senate in 2012.

 

[g5000]

OK Conservatives....here's the deal

Either you want Planned Parenthood or you don't

You can't scream to defund Planned Parenthood one week and then say insurance does not need to pay for birth control because we have Planned Parenthood

Planned Parenthood is there whether we like it or not. And it is supported with tax dollars to provide birth control.

I personally believe more people need to use birth control. And more people need to learn how to use birth control properly and effectively. I also personally believe pro-lifers should open competitive clinics which provide adoption counseling and free birth control.

But that has nothing to do with forcing a religion to engage in behavior which violates its beliefs.

I mean, how much gall does it take to take job at a Catholic institution and then ask the government to force the Catholic Church to give them birth control?

Never again can the Left pretend that other people's values are important to them, because they have demonstrated they are as intolerant and immoral as it gets.

 

[g5000]

The plan will only require the Church offer a choice. That's it. That's all. Choice. Allow people to make their own choices.

Get it? I doubt it.

I am beginning to think you are retarded. There are so many logical fallacies and false analogies in your posts I can't help but wonder.

It is very simple. The Church is being forced to pay for birth control. It is as simple as that.

It is against the Churchs' religion to even OFFER birth control. You. Fucking. Idiot.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Birth control is a smokescreen. This is about expanding government powers. In this case, it is a two-pronged attack.

First, forcing employers to provide a health insurance fringe benefit. Any pretensions about these new government powers driving down costs for everyone are exposed for the lies they are by the permanent institutionalization of this cost amplifier.

Second, forcing religious people to engage in a behavior which is against their morals. Never again can the Left pretend that other people's values are important to them, because they have demonstrated they are as intolerant and immoral as it gets.

You guys are too much.

No one is being force to go against their morals. If you have a religious conviction against taking birth control you are not required to take it. However looks like secular society is getting tired of religious institutions forcing their morals on non-believers in the form of sub-par healthcare coverage.

I love how you've conveniently decided that "no one is being force [sic] to go against their morals" by the convenient expedient of narrowly redefining their morals for them. Can you be any more of a dishonest asswipe, or would that require elective surgery? I warn you, I have a moral principle against paying for your operation to become an even bigger lying dickhead.

By the way, if you don't want to pay for your own healthcare, please take this as a cordial invitation to just die. The more you talk, the more of a waste of money I consider keeping you alive and healthy to be.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Birth control is a smokescreen. This is about expanding government powers. In this case, it is a two-pronged attack.

First, forcing employers to provide a health insurance fringe benefit. Any pretensions about these new government powers driving down costs for everyone are exposed for the lies they are by the permanent institutionalization of this cost amplifier.

Second, forcing religious people to engage in a behavior which is against their morals. Never again can the Left pretend that other people's values are important to them, because they have demonstrated they are as intolerant and immoral as it gets.

You guys are too much.

No one is being force to go against their morals. If you have a religious conviction against taking birth control you are not required to take it. However looks like secular society is getting tired of religious institutions forcing their morals on non-believers in the form of sub-par healthcare coverage.

Whether free or at cost, do as your conscience dictates.

Y'might wanna try directing that at someone who would recognize a conscience if it crawled up his pants leg.

 

[koshergrl]

I suspect boo has reached the maximum level of butt wipedness...though I have been wrong before.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Anyone can walk into any planned parenthood or public health clinic...and walk out with a bag full of condoms.

Not only that, most urban or suburban areas have some sort of AIDS awareness organization in the area which will be more than happy to load you down with condoms, lube, dental dams, the whole nine yards.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Once and for all, any American and pretty much any human alive in the US today can obtain FREE CONTRACEPTIVES.

Ok? I'm tired of having to deal with nitwits in every single discussion about reproductive issues who claim women can't obtain birth control unless we 1. Allow abortion 2. Mandate birth control or 3. Force the churches to subsidize birth control (which includes abortion).

On multiple occasions I have had to post information, generally to the same people (chris) (rdean) (various and assorted lesbian buddhists and the like) confirming and providing contact information for free clinics in pretty much every community in the US.

So can we just all accept that birth control is available in the US, including for NOTHING, and move on? You can still argue other points idiotically, but please just let that one particular argument (people can't obtain birth control! OMG! However will they kill their babies????) die a natural death.

I know you are also adverse to natural death...I'll rephrase it...

Will you please euthanize, or abort, the mantra "women can't access birth control!"

No! We cannot agree. They are not FREE someone has to pay for them.

Yes, but the things Kosher is talking about are generally paid for by people who WANT to pay for them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

We all pay for things we don't like through taxation. Some really big ticket items like war for example.

Don't be so ignorant.

Well, sweet cheeks (and believe me, the spectacle of YOU calling someone ignorant is hilarious), war falls under the heading of "national defense", which appears in the Constitution, ie. we all agree under our social compact to fund it. Please tell me which Article or Amendment birth control appears in, or where at any point the people of the United States have agreed to participate in funding it.

I'll even help you out, since I'm quite sure you've never read the document in question, and wouldn't know where to find it on the Internet unless a porn star posed with a copy.

Index Page - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

 

[GuyPinestra]

Really?

Why do millions of Americans pay for birth control then? You need to get the word out

Drug stores need to stop selling condoms....after all, they are free

Free family planning, pelvics, birth control:
Planned Parenthood

1001 Connecticut Ave NW, Washington, DC 20036
http://www.plannedparenthood.org

(202) 464-3280

FREE CONDOMS IN DC:

DOH: Free Condom Locations

OK Conservatives....here's the deal

Either you want Planned Parenthood or you don't

You can't scream to defund Planned Parenthood one week and then say insurance does not need to pay for birth control because we have Planned Parenthood the next

Why can't the people who support Planned Parenthood SUPPORT Planned Parenthood?

 

[Cecilie1200]

As for the Catholic Church component to all this mess, parishes and dioceses are not required to offer birth control; just Catholic-run organizations that hire non-Catholics. This ensures that individuals can make their own decisions instead of an organization making decisions for them.

I cannot understand why conservatives are up in arms about this! It protects the rights of the individual. I thought conservatives were all for individual rights.

Because the Catholics who run those organizations are individuals with rights, too, and there is no "right", individual or otherwise, to have someone else buy you something, and we're not terribly interested in seeing the parasites of our society creating yet another right to leech off of others.

Is that clear enough for you, or should I break out the crayons and start drawing pictures?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Anyone can walk into any planned parenthood or public health clinic...and walk out with a bag full of condoms.

Planned Parenthood also offers free or low cost birth control pills on a sliding fee scale.

One example:

Free Birth Control, STI Testing & Exams - Planned Parenthood - Nassau County

And you can't walk down a city street without tripping over a free/sliding-scale clinic for the poor and indigent. You practically have to kick the fuckers out of the way.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Can we all agree that most conservatives would like to shut down Planned Parenthood?

Absolutely. Fuck the abortion industry and the pigs who run it.

And the pigs who support it.

Actually, I have no interest in shutting down Planned Parenthood. I just want to shut down their abortion mill arm. The rest of it can stay.

 

[Cecilie1200]

As for the Catholic Church component to all this mess, parishes and dioceses are not required to offer birth control; just Catholic-run organizations that hire non-Catholics. This ensures that individuals can make their own decisions instead of an organization making decisions for them.

Did the organization decide where they would work?

I cannot understand why conservatives are up in arms about this! It protects the rights of the individual. I thought conservatives were all for individual rights.

We are. We believe in individual rights and...(gasp!) religious freedom! The whole darned Constitution, and not just part of it!

We believe an individual should be free to work wherever they want, and if they knowingly take a job with an organization whose dogma is well known, they should not demand the religious freedom of their employer be violated.

The Constitution protects individual liberty. Obama's plan allows individuals to make a religious choice. Therefore, it protects religious liberty. YOUR plan is to force one particular religious view on people. That's a violation of their constitutional rights.

And this is not forcing contraception on anyone. It forces insurance companies (not the Church!) into OFFERING birth control. Offering is not the same as forcing. The Church's rights are not violated with this law anymore than it gets violated when parish members purchase birth control.

This is the most puerile and pathetic attempt at logic that I've seen in at least a week. Bravo.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Birth control is a smokescreen. This is about expanding government powers. In this case, it is a two-pronged attack.

First, forcing employers to provide a health insurance fringe benefit. Any pretensions about these new government powers driving down costs for everyone are exposed for the lies they are by the permanent institutionalization of this cost amplifier.

Second, forcing religious people to engage in a behavior which is against their morals. Never again can the Left pretend that other people's values are important to them, because they have demonstrated they are as intolerant and immoral as it gets.

You guys are too much.

No one is being force to go against their morals. If you have a religious conviction against taking birth control you are not required to take it. However looks like secular society is getting tired of religious institutions forcing their morals on non-believers in the form of sub-par healthcare coverage.

Especially since they don't pay any taxes.

If they want to control other than their "flock", if they want a say in secular issues, if they want a total end to the constant battle of the separation of church and state then let them PAY their fair taxes because I'm sick of driving by huge wealthy properties and knowing they get it all - tax free.

Their buildings sit empty while American children go to bed hungry, while one in 6 vets go without a home, job, health care, while the rest of us work to pay our fair share of taxes.

Until they join the system, screw their fake "morals" because we all know that's what it is - fake and phony. But, even if its real, if I or you pay for health insurance, we should not have to hand over our health care decisions to an employer or, of all things, a damn church.

BUT, that is not what this is all about. The whole religion/employer/ free bc is a smoke screen crated by the fat drug addict who steals viagra. BLECH. Disgusting excuse for a man.

 

[LoneLaugher]

The plan will only require the Church offer a choice. That's it. That's all. Choice. Allow people to make their own choices.

Get it? I doubt it.

I am beginning to think you are retarded. There are so many logical fallacies and false analogies in your posts I can't help but wonder.

It is very simple. The Church is being forced to pay for birth control. It is as simple as that.

It is against the Churchs' religion to even OFFER birth control. You. Fucking. Idiot.

You are not in wjmacguffin's league. Not even close.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Did the organization decide where they would work?




We are. We believe in individual rights and...(gasp!) religious freedom! The whole darned Constitution, and not just part of it!

We believe an individual should be free to work wherever they want, and if they knowingly take a job with an organization whose dogma is well known, they should not demand the religious freedom of their employer be violated.

The Constitution protects individual liberty. Obama's plan allows individuals to make a religious choice. Therefore, it protects religious liberty. YOUR plan is to force one particular religious view on people. That's a violation of their constitutional rights.

And this is not forcing contraception on anyone. It forces insurance companies (not the Church!) into OFFERING birth control. Offering is not the same as forcing. The Church's rights are not violated with this law anymore than it gets violated when parish members purchase birth control.

This is the most puerile and pathetic attempt at logic that I've seen in at least a week. Bravo.

What does YOUR candidate offer?