Palestinian identity ?

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

No, you have it wrong.

(ii) The territory defended against the Aggressor Arab League and Hostile Arab Palestinians was peaceful, over a significant period.​

​

The territory has never been peaceful as required.

(COMMENT)

Today, the physically erected border between Israel and the West Bank is the first area of consideration. The area East of the erected border is considered the West Bank. And you would be correct. That particular area is dominated be Hostile Area Palestinians, and has not been peaceful. However, the West side of the boundary, has not had a history of an insurgency, or a jihadist movement operating and creating a lack of law and order. It has been relatively peaceful; except for Hostile Arab Palestinians that infiltrate.

Similarly, the boundary around the Gaza Strip has a very Hostile Arab Palestinian content. But on the Israeli side of the boundary, there is a remarkable peaceful environment.

In both cases, law and order --- or --- the threat to the peace or acts of aggression, were then --- and are now --- originating largely from Hostile Arab Palestinians in residence outside Israel and mostly from the West Bank, Gaza Strip area.

It should be noted that virtually nothing associated with the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, contributes to a peaceful and positive developing culture.

Most Respectfully,
R

I wonder how an area that is occupied and patrolled by the Vicious Israeli Occupier (VIO) can be considered dominated by the occupied. It is "Rocco LogicTM".

Demographics, which you are a self convinced expert on the way you use them to advocate violence against the Jews.

 

[Rehmani]

Rehmani, et al,

Oh come now! Is that really accurate? Is it really close to the truth?

Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.

(EXAMPLES)

What are these examples of?

• Spreading Hate
• Bring Hate
• Preventing Peace

Band #1:

Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily ...
www.columbiatribune.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/arab...
Jan 24, 2015 · Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily Tribune: Letters To The Editor Opinion ... Open Column Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate.

Pro-Palestinian students bring hate, intimidation to ...
www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/pro-palestinian-students-bring-hate...
Jun 09, 2014 · ... hateful rhetoric.Students for Justice in Palestine has ... Palestinian students bring hate, ... students in America uncomfortable on campus seems ...

How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace - The New York Times
www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/opinion/how-palestinian-hate-prevents...
Oct 15, 2013 · How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace. By YUVAL STEINITZ ...Palestinian leaders must now reciprocate by immediately and fully halting their …
​

Band #2:

Hamas Rejects UN Textbooks for Teaching Non-Violence
www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bashes-unrwas-human-rights-corriculum
... [in the books] refer to [Mahatma] Gandhi, Martin ... The Palestinian narrative was also ... the universal values that underpin the work of the United Nations. ...

6000 Boys Graduate Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terrorist ...
www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/6000-boys-graduate...
Aug 19, 2015 · The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist organization held a graduation ceremony Tuesday for the 6,000 Gaza boys who this summer attended …

Kid Jihad” Summer Training Camp: Blood, Fire & AK-47’s ...
patriotupdate.com/kid-jihad-summer-training-camp-blood-fire-ak-47s
Tens of thousands of Palestinian children hurried to register for Terrorists (summer) training camp 101 and to attend programs which indoctrinate the youngsters in ...

Camp Jihad’: U.N.-Sponsored Camps Encourage Palestinian ...
www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/14/camp-jihad-u-n-sponsored-camps...
Summer at United Nations-funded camps in Gaza and the northern West Bank include playing with parachutes, jumping on trampolines, and racing down inflatable slides.

Islamic Jihad's Summer of Radicalization :: The ...
www.investigativeproject.org/4046/islamic-jihad-summer-of...
Summer camp conjures up bucolic images of swimming and other outdoor fun. But thousands of Palestinian children will experience something quite different, as ...
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Look body you can't compare some one like phoney who is living in UK with people of Palestine who are facing terror last 70 years by the Israeli army with modern war machine followed by wii elite force support.
Be real Roccr.

The only terror is that faced by the JEWS from the arab muslims. they are only doing what a muslim has to do by the command of their false prophet and moon god. If they had not invaded in 1949 and tried to wipe out the Jews then they would not have been killed in vast numbers. If they did not fire illegal weapons from civilian areas that have been branded war crimes they would not see thousands of human shields killed in the backwash. They showed their intent in 2005 when Israel removed all Jews from gaza and the Palestinians increased the numbers and severity of the terrorist attacks.

Why Arab Muslim will kill jews in Holy land. Arab muslim they are the one who open the door for jew in holy land
and I will say that was wrong by arab muslim.

 

[Rehmani]

First Paris incident occur just after Israel killed 2000 innocent people and European were not happy with Israeli terror. And second incident occur after this bill passed by European parliament. While whole muslim world condemned the both incidents. Then who is behind the terror attack if all Muslim world rejecting it.

So what did the French have to do with the repercussions of the acts of war by hamas. The French did not drop any bombs on gaza, or fire at any hamas terrorists. If this is the case then France can drop bombs on Mecca and destroy the mosque there. Did the French oppose this bill and declare that they would only buy from Israeli farms in the west bank, again this means that the French can now bomb gaza in return for the deaths of innocents in France. See were this is leading as very soon there would be no muslims left if the west employed Islamic measures and moralities.
The muslims only condemned the attacks after they faces reprisals for them, which is common all over the world. It is islam and its teachings in the koran that is to blame, does it not say terrorise those who will not bow down before me until there is only islam ?

Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.

Nothing at all as I tell the truth that is very easy to find on the internet and in public library's

I will say you don't live in UK. And your language is english either. you know nothing.

Then youi prove you know nothing what so ever and need to get an English education

dumb just add "n" it become "neither". You are a trouble maker spreading hate and earning on it. Don't you think you are terrorist too. European parliament pass a bill against israeli goods and Israeli jews are unhappy.

 

[Rehmani]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.

The difference is in the objective and goals.

• The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state. (The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.) (PREVENTION)

• The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state. (The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.) (ACHIEVEMENT)
​

Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?

(COMMENT)

Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building. It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.

The GA Resolution 181 was the "HOW TO BOOK" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP). It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" (the "HOW") and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps (international consensus). BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible (opposed by Powerful Arab Forces), and declared independence.

It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference). A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.

Most Respectfully,
R

Roccar you are working hard to change the facts, please don't do that. Honesty is good policy. Let the world have peace.

 

[Fishlore]

From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.

The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.

These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.

 

[Phoenall]

Rehmani, et al,

Oh come now! Is that really accurate? Is it really close to the truth?

Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.

(EXAMPLES)

What are these examples of?

• Spreading Hate
• Bring Hate
• Preventing Peace

Band #1:

Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily ...
www.columbiatribune.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/arab...
Jan 24, 2015 · Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily Tribune: Letters To The Editor Opinion ... Open Column Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate.

Pro-Palestinian students bring hate, intimidation to ...
www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/pro-palestinian-students-bring-hate...
Jun 09, 2014 · ... hateful rhetoric.Students for Justice in Palestine has ... Palestinian students bring hate, ... students in America uncomfortable on campus seems ...

How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace - The New York Times
www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/opinion/how-palestinian-hate-prevents...
Oct 15, 2013 · How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace. By YUVAL STEINITZ ...Palestinian leaders must now reciprocate by immediately and fully halting their …
​

Band #2:

Hamas Rejects UN Textbooks for Teaching Non-Violence
www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bashes-unrwas-human-rights-corriculum
... [in the books] refer to [Mahatma] Gandhi, Martin ... The Palestinian narrative was also ... the universal values that underpin the work of the United Nations. ...

6000 Boys Graduate Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terrorist ...
www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/6000-boys-graduate...
Aug 19, 2015 · The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist organization held a graduation ceremony Tuesday for the 6,000 Gaza boys who this summer attended …

Kid Jihad” Summer Training Camp: Blood, Fire & AK-47’s ...
patriotupdate.com/kid-jihad-summer-training-camp-blood-fire-ak-47s
Tens of thousands of Palestinian children hurried to register for Terrorists (summer) training camp 101 and to attend programs which indoctrinate the youngsters in ...

Camp Jihad’: U.N.-Sponsored Camps Encourage Palestinian ...
www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/14/camp-jihad-u-n-sponsored-camps...
Summer at United Nations-funded camps in Gaza and the northern West Bank include playing with parachutes, jumping on trampolines, and racing down inflatable slides.

Islamic Jihad's Summer of Radicalization :: The ...
www.investigativeproject.org/4046/islamic-jihad-summer-of...
Summer camp conjures up bucolic images of swimming and other outdoor fun. But thousands of Palestinian children will experience something quite different, as ...
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Look body you can't compare some one like phoney who is living in UK with people of Palestine who are facing terror last 70 years by the Israeli army with modern war machine followed by wii elite force support.
Be real Roccr.

The only terror is that faced by the JEWS from the arab muslims. they are only doing what a muslim has to do by the command of their false prophet and moon god. If they had not invaded in 1949 and tried to wipe out the Jews then they would not have been killed in vast numbers. If they did not fire illegal weapons from civilian areas that have been branded war crimes they would not see thousands of human shields killed in the backwash. They showed their intent in 2005 when Israel removed all Jews from gaza and the Palestinians increased the numbers and severity of the terrorist attacks.

Why Arab Muslim will kill jews in Holy land. Arab muslim they are the one who open the door for jew in holy land
and I will say that was wrong by arab muslim.

And then proceeded to massacre them all over the world, and the muslims are still trying to massacre Jews today. They give with one hand and then take by force with the other.

 

[Phoenall]

So what did the French have to do with the repercussions of the acts of war by hamas. The French did not drop any bombs on gaza, or fire at any hamas terrorists. If this is the case then France can drop bombs on Mecca and destroy the mosque there. Did the French oppose this bill and declare that they would only buy from Israeli farms in the west bank, again this means that the French can now bomb gaza in return for the deaths of innocents in France. See were this is leading as very soon there would be no muslims left if the west employed Islamic measures and moralities.
The muslims only condemned the attacks after they faces reprisals for them, which is common all over the world. It is islam and its teachings in the koran that is to blame, does it not say terrorise those who will not bow down before me until there is only islam ?

Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.

Nothing at all as I tell the truth that is very easy to find on the internet and in public library's

I will say you don't live in UK. And your language is english either. you know nothing.

Then youi prove you know nothing what so ever and need to get an English education

dumb just add "n" it become "neither". You are a trouble maker spreading hate and earning on it. Don't you think you are terrorist too. European parliament pass a bill against israeli goods and Israeli jews are unhappy.

Then why can I buy Israeli goods in my local EU supermarket, because the law is unworkable in a union with separate laws. No I am not a terrorist as I am not using violence to force my religion or politics on anyone else, unlike you muslims that do it daily all over the world. How is it hate to post the truth from Islamic sources like the koran and hadiths ?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.

The difference is in the objective and goals.

• The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state. (The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.) (PREVENTION)

• The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state. (The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.) (ACHIEVEMENT)
​

Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?

(COMMENT)

Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building. It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.

The GA Resolution 181 was the "HOW TO BOOK" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP). It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" (the "HOW") and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps (international consensus). BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible (opposed by Powerful Arab Forces), and declared independence.

It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference). A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.

Most Respectfully,
R

Roccar you are working hard to change the facts, please don't do that. Honesty is good policy. Let the world have peace.

He has changed no facts at all and just posts genuine reports from valid sources to prove muslims are evil, vile and untrustworthy. A thousand years of washing will never remove the blood on your hands

 

[Phoenall]

From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.

The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.

These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.

WRONG as the birth of Israel was first advocated in 1917 before the Nazi's came into existence, and the arab muslims started the violence back then.

 

[Fishlore]

From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.

The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.

These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.

WRONG as the birth of Israel was first advocated in 1917 before the Nazi's came into existence, and the arab muslims started the violence back then.

No, dear, I'm not wrong. I wrote not of the date when the "birth" of Israel was first advocated but of when the umbilicus was cut in 1948.

You will be astounded to learn that the Israel envisioned at the moment of conception was an entirely secular, multi-ethnic state in which Jews, Christians, and Muslims would all be granted strictly identical rights. The Balfour Declaration and the writing of Chaim Weizmann are going to come as a bit of a shock to you, should you chance to come across them.

Arab Muslim violence has a much longer history than 1917, nor has it been primarily directed towards Jews for the very good reason that until the systematic mass migrations of European Jews, Jews in Palestine were a small native minority whose religious practices posed no problem for Muslims. Kashrut is the brother of Halal. Arab Muslim resistance has been toward non-Muslim Western intruders regardless of religious preference, and it still is. The notion of hatred of Jews because of their religion is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption. If every Jew in Israel converted to Christian Science this afternoon, nothing would change.

If you are interested in what Arab Muslims think about Israeli Jews you might find it illuminating to read what Arab Muslims say about the issue. The trope of the poor, victimized Jews is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption. Don't fall for it.

 

[Phoenall]

From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.

The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.

These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.

WRONG as the birth of Israel was first advocated in 1917 before the Nazi's came into existence, and the arab muslims started the violence back then.

No, dear, I'm not wrong. I wrote not of the date when the "birth" of Israel was first advocated but of when the umbilicus was cut in 1948.

You will be astounded to learn that the Israel envisioned at the moment of conception was an entirely secular, multi-ethnic state in which Jews, Christians, and Muslims would all be granted strictly identical rights. The Balfour Declaration and the writing of Chaim Weizmann are going to come as a bit of a shock to you, should you chance to come across them.

Arab Muslim violence has a much longer history than 1917, nor has it been primarily directed towards Jews for the very good reason that until the systematic mass migrations of European Jews, Jews in Palestine were a small native minority whose religious practices posed no problem for Muslims. Kashrut is the brother of Halal. Arab Muslim resistance has been toward non-Muslim Western intruders regardless of religious preference, and it still is. The notion of hatred of Jews because of their religion is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption. If every Jew in Israel converted to Christian Science this afternoon, nothing would change.

If you are interested in what Arab Muslims think about Israeli Jews you might find it illuminating to read what Arab Muslims say about the issue. The trope of the poor, victimized Jews is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption. Don't fall for it.

Have done and they are no shock at all as they say just that. Yes arab muslim violence goes all the way back to 627 C.E. when mo'mad the false prophet invented the death cult known as islam, and proceeded to thieve, rape and steal his way across arabia. This led to the massacre of the Jewish tribe at Medina and the ethnic cleansing of 2 other Jewish tribes shortly after. The koran spells it out and is supported by the hadiths that say KILL THE JEWS

 

[Billo_Really]

The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...

The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments
When lies are the foundation of policies.
October 16, 2015
Bruce Thornton

Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in 1984, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.

Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a marxiste hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.

...

Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”

...

Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are disputed, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a better case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.

The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.

The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.

These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in 1984. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.


The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments

First off, I'd like to know how you get away with posting an entire article and nobody say's anything about it? I thought there was a limit of paragraphs and you had to include your own take on things? I don't see your take any where and it looks like the paragraphs were not limited.

With that being said, this thread is bullshit!

Israel is the only country on the planet claiming these territories are "disputed". No other nation say's that. These are territories Israel seized during the '67 war, which makes them occupied.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter what name you call the Palestinian's, they are the indigenous residents of this area and they have a right to self determination.

 

[Fishlore]

From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.

The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.

These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.

WRONG as the birth of Israel was first advocated in 1917 before the Nazi's came into existence, and the arab muslims started the violence back then.

No, dear, I'm not wrong. I wrote not of the date when the "birth" of Israel was first advocated but of when the umbilicus was cut in 1948.

You will be astounded to learn that the Israel envisioned at the moment of conception was an entirely secular, multi-ethnic state in which Jews, Christians, and Muslims would all be granted strictly identical rights. The Balfour Declaration and the writing of Chaim Weizmann are going to come as a bit of a shock to you, should you chance to come across them.

Arab Muslim violence has a much longer history than 1917, nor has it been primarily directed towards Jews for the very good reason that until the systematic mass migrations of European Jews, Jews in Palestine were a small native minority whose religious practices posed no problem for Muslims. Kashrut is the brother of Halal. Arab Muslim resistance has been toward non-Muslim Western intruders regardless of religious preference, and it still is. The notion of hatred of Jews because of their religion is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption. If every Jew in Israel converted to Christian Science this afternoon, nothing would change.

If you are interested in what Arab Muslims think about Israeli Jews you might find it illuminating to read what Arab Muslims say about the issue. The trope of the poor, victimized Jews is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption. Don't fall for it.

Have done and they are no shock at all as they say just that. Yes arab muslim violence goes all the way back to 627 C.E. when mo'mad the false prophet invented the death cult known as islam, and proceeded to thieve, rape and steal his way across arabia. This led to the massacre of the Jewish tribe at Medina and the ethnic cleansing of 2 other Jewish tribes shortly after. The koran spells it out and is supported by the hadiths that say KILL THE JEWS

Well, I understand your point of view, although I see the history somewhat differently.
The depiction of Mohammad as a false prophet, a thief and a rapist strikes me as a bit extreme and not something worth arguing over.

The hateful hysteria that is being ginned up in the country in order to prepare the American pea pull for a continuation of the endless war in Arabia make me suspicious.

However our Arabian Nights adventure turns out -- and I am pretty sure it will turn out rather badly -- the alleged moral shortcomings of the founder of Islam aren't going to play any role beyond stirring up enthusiasm for getting more American kids killed over there.

 

[Phoenall]

The " palestinians" are arab outcast from surrounding arab countries...

The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments
When lies are the foundation of policies.
October 16, 2015
Bruce Thornton

Many of our policy debates and conflicts both domestic and foreign call on history to validate their positions. At home, crimes from the past like slavery and legal segregation are used to justify present policies ranging from racial set asides to housing regulations long after those institutions have been dismantled. Abroad, our jihadist enemies continually evoke the Crusades, “colonialism,” and “imperialism” as justifications for their violence. Yet the “history” used in such fashion is usually one-sided, simplistic, or downright false. Nor is the reason hard to find: as we read in 1984, “Who controls the past . . . controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” Bad history is a powerful instrument for gaining political power.

Nowhere is the abuse of history more rampant than in the Middle East. Since World War II all the problems whose origins lie in dysfunctional tribal and religious beliefs and behaviors have been laid at the feet of “colonialism” and “imperialism.” Western leftists––besotted both by a marxiste hatred of liberal democracy, and by juvenile noble-savage Third-Worldism–– have legitimized this specious pretext, which now for many has become historical fact.

...

Everything about this narrative is false. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian” people, an idea that arose only after the Six Day War of 1967. The bulk of the people mistakenly called “Palestinians” are ethnically, religiously, and linguistically indistinguishable from Arab Muslims in Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria. Numerous comments by Arab leaders before 1967 emphasized this fact. For example, Zouhair Muhsin, a member of the Executive Council of the PLO, said, “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.”

...

Finally, the charge of an “illegal occupation” of the “occupied West Bank” is a canard. Those territories, comprising the heartland of the ancient Jewish nations of Judea and Samaria, are disputed, their final disposition awaiting a peace treaty. There are no “borders” thought to define the mythical Palestinian nation. Those lines on the map are armistice lines, created after Israel defeated the armies of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt in 1967. By all rights as the victor, Israel could have incorporated the so-called West Bank into the state of Israel, on the same eternal wages of war that led to the American Southwest being incorporated into the U.S. after the 1846-48 war with Mexico, or of Prussian Germany into Poland after World War II. Indeed, since the territory in question was for thousands of years the homeland of the Jewish people, Israel would have had a better case for restoring Judea and Samaria to Israel. Instead, in the Orwellian history created by Muslims and accepted by the West, the indigenous peoples are considered the “occupiers” of their own lands, and conquerors, invaders, and colonizers considered the disenfranchised victims.

The recent suicide-murders of random Israelis by Palestinians have been analyzed in terms that perpetuate this false history. Our intellectually challenged Secretary of State, John Kerry, referred to this false history when he said at Harvard, “There’s been a massive increase in settlement over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing,” he said. “Settlements” is nothing more than a mindless mantra, like “cycle of violence” or “checkpoints” or the “sanctity of the al-Aqsa mosque,” for the pusillanimous West, while for Muslims they are the pretexts for practicing their traditional Jew-hatred and sacralized violence.

The history this reporting on the Temple Mount ignores is the great forbearance, and to be sure tactical pragmatism, of the Israelis in leaving the Temple Mount under the management of the Arabs; while a mosque created as a triumphalist boast over conquered Christians and Jews, in a city never mentioned in the Koran, is respected more by the West than its own empty cathedrals. Meanwhile the travails of Muslim immigrants are hyped and agonized over more than the crucifixions, torture, rape, and murder of Christians in the greatest mass persecution of Christians in history.

These are the wages of historical ignorance and the acceptance of a history made up by an adversary who can “thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, it never happened,” as Orwell says of the Party in 1984. Our foreign policy has often been predicated on these lies, and the outcome has been predictable when lies are the foundation of policies––the abject failure we are witnessing in the region today.


The Middle East and Orwellian Historical Arguments

First off, I'd like to know how you get away with posting an entire article and nobody say's anything about it? I thought there was a limit of paragraphs and you had to include your own take on things? I don't see your take any where and it looks like the paragraphs were not limited.

With that being said, this thread is bullshit!

Israel is the only country on the planet claiming these territories are "disputed". No other nation say's that. These are territories Israel seized during the '67 war, which makes them occupied.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter what name you call the Palestinian's, they are the indigenous residents of this area and they have a right to self determination.

They were seized in 1948/1949 and never granted to Egypt or Jordan, so in 1967 when Israel beat back the arab armies the land became disputed as the arab muslims never owned it.
They have exercised self determination at least 100 times since 1948, and each time have failed to show they can stand on their own

 

[Phoenall]

From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.

The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.

These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.

WRONG as the birth of Israel was first advocated in 1917 before the Nazi's came into existence, and the arab muslims started the violence back then.

No, dear, I'm not wrong. I wrote not of the date when the "birth" of Israel was first advocated but of when the umbilicus was cut in 1948.

You will be astounded to learn that the Israel envisioned at the moment of conception was an entirely secular, multi-ethnic state in which Jews, Christians, and Muslims would all be granted strictly identical rights. The Balfour Declaration and the writing of Chaim Weizmann are going to come as a bit of a shock to you, should you chance to come across them.

Arab Muslim violence has a much longer history than 1917, nor has it been primarily directed towards Jews for the very good reason that until the systematic mass migrations of European Jews, Jews in Palestine were a small native minority whose religious practices posed no problem for Muslims. Kashrut is the brother of Halal. Arab Muslim resistance has been toward non-Muslim Western intruders regardless of religious preference, and it still is. The notion of hatred of Jews because of their religion is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption. If every Jew in Israel converted to Christian Science this afternoon, nothing would change.

If you are interested in what Arab Muslims think about Israeli Jews you might find it illuminating to read what Arab Muslims say about the issue. The trope of the poor, victimized Jews is Zionist propaganda for Western consumption. Don't fall for it.

Have done and they are no shock at all as they say just that. Yes arab muslim violence goes all the way back to 627 C.E. when mo'mad the false prophet invented the death cult known as islam, and proceeded to thieve, rape and steal his way across arabia. This led to the massacre of the Jewish tribe at Medina and the ethnic cleansing of 2 other Jewish tribes shortly after. The koran spells it out and is supported by the hadiths that say KILL THE JEWS

Well, I understand your point of view, although I see the history somewhat differently.
The depiction of Mohammad as a false prophet, a thief and a rapist strikes me as a bit extreme and not something worth arguing over.

The hateful hysteria that is being ginned up in the country in order to prepare the American pea pull for a continuation of the endless war in Arabia make me suspicious.

However our Arabian Nights adventure turns out -- and I am pretty sure it will turn out rather badly -- the alleged moral shortcomings of the founder of Islam aren't going to play any role beyond stirring up enthusiasm for getting more American kids killed over there.

It is not extreme at all as it is the truth, the evidence is written down in the koran and hadiths for all to see. Want the real bombshell he was delusional and had a verified mental illness that caused him to see and hear people that did not exist.
The hatefull hysteria set in motion against the Jews by the Nazis and muslims has me worried, along with the mass invasion of Europe by the muslims.
They either die over there or in the good old US of A it makes no difference to Obama and the rest of islam, it is inevitable that islam will rise up and try and fulfill the commands in the koran.

 

[Rehmani]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.

The difference is in the objective and goals.

• The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state. (The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.) (PREVENTION)

• The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state. (The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.) (ACHIEVEMENT)
​

Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?

(COMMENT)

Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building. It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.

The GA Resolution 181 was the "HOW TO BOOK" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP). It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" (the "HOW") and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps (international consensus). BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible (opposed by Powerful Arab Forces), and declared independence.

It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference). A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.

Most Respectfully,
R

Roccar you are working hard to change the facts, please don't do that. Honesty is good policy. Let the world have peace.

He has changed no facts at all and just posts genuine reports from valid sources to prove muslims are evil, vile and untrustworthy. A thousand years of washing will never remove the blood on your hands

I don't know about roccor, but you are not English neither english is first tongue. What roccor talking about is that elite forces invade holy land from Turkey and gave to Jews and invader makes all laws too. And he is trying to force invader story over 1000 years of holy land history and he wants accept these new facts force by invaders.

 

[Rehmani]

Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.

Nothing at all as I tell the truth that is very easy to find on the internet and in public library's

I will say you don't live in UK. And your language is english either. you know nothing.

Then youi prove you know nothing what so ever and need to get an English education

dumb just add "n" it become "neither". You are a trouble maker spreading hate and earning on it. Don't you think you are terrorist too. European parliament pass a bill against israeli goods and Israeli jews are unhappy.

Then why can I buy Israeli goods in my local EU supermarket, because the law is unworkable in a union with separate laws. No I am not a terrorist as I am not using violence to force my religion or politics on anyone else, unlike you muslims that do it daily all over the world. How is it hate to post the truth from Islamic sources like the koran and hadiths ?

Then why israel is not happy. You are not but yours little tongue is moron. And they might be hypocrite or 100 million missing jews.

 

[Rehmani]

Rehmani, et al,

Oh come now! Is that really accurate? Is it really close to the truth?

Look phoney you are full of hate and you are earning by spreading hate, tell us how much you earned as propagandist.

(EXAMPLES)

What are these examples of?

• Spreading Hate
• Bring Hate
• Preventing Peace

Band #1:

Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily ...
www.columbiatribune.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/arab...
Jan 24, 2015 · Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate - Columbia Daily Tribune: Letters To The Editor Opinion ... Open Column Arab Palestinian leaders spread hate.

Pro-Palestinian students bring hate, intimidation to ...
www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/pro-palestinian-students-bring-hate...
Jun 09, 2014 · ... hateful rhetoric.Students for Justice in Palestine has ... Palestinian students bring hate, ... students in America uncomfortable on campus seems ...

How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace - The New York Times
www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/opinion/how-palestinian-hate-prevents...
Oct 15, 2013 · How Palestinian Hate Prevents Peace. By YUVAL STEINITZ ...Palestinian leaders must now reciprocate by immediately and fully halting their …
​

Band #2:

Hamas Rejects UN Textbooks for Teaching Non-Violence
www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bashes-unrwas-human-rights-corriculum
... [in the books] refer to [Mahatma] Gandhi, Martin ... The Palestinian narrative was also ... the universal values that underpin the work of the United Nations. ...

6000 Boys Graduate Palestinian Islamic Jihad Terrorist ...
www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/6000-boys-graduate...
Aug 19, 2015 · The Iranian-backed Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist organization held a graduation ceremony Tuesday for the 6,000 Gaza boys who this summer attended …

Kid Jihad” Summer Training Camp: Blood, Fire & AK-47’s ...
patriotupdate.com/kid-jihad-summer-training-camp-blood-fire-ak-47s
Tens of thousands of Palestinian children hurried to register for Terrorists (summer) training camp 101 and to attend programs which indoctrinate the youngsters in ...

Camp Jihad’: U.N.-Sponsored Camps Encourage Palestinian ...
www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/14/camp-jihad-u-n-sponsored-camps...
Summer at United Nations-funded camps in Gaza and the northern West Bank include playing with parachutes, jumping on trampolines, and racing down inflatable slides.

Islamic Jihad's Summer of Radicalization :: The ...
www.investigativeproject.org/4046/islamic-jihad-summer-of...
Summer camp conjures up bucolic images of swimming and other outdoor fun. But thousands of Palestinian children will experience something quite different, as ...
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Look body you can't compare some one like phoney who is living in UK with people of Palestine who are facing terror last 70 years by the Israeli army with modern war machine followed by wii elite force support.
Be real Roccr.

The only terror is that faced by the JEWS from the arab muslims. they are only doing what a muslim has to do by the command of their false prophet and moon god. If they had not invaded in 1949 and tried to wipe out the Jews then they would not have been killed in vast numbers. If they did not fire illegal weapons from civilian areas that have been branded war crimes they would not see thousands of human shields killed in the backwash. They showed their intent in 2005 when Israel removed all Jews from gaza and the Palestinians increased the numbers and severity of the terrorist attacks.

Why Arab Muslim will kill jews in Holy land. Arab muslim they are the one who open the door for jew in holy land
and I will say that was wrong by arab muslim.

And then proceeded to massacre them all over the world, and the muslims are still trying to massacre Jews today. They give with one hand and then take by force with the other.

This is your quality you are talking about. Fool whole world is watching that Jews are killing innocent people in israel, dumb can't you see.

 

[Rehmani]

From the Arab side, the fact that the Israelis are Jews is insignificant. They could all be Episcopalians and it wouldn't change a thing. What is important is that they are non-Muslims. Six million Westerners led by an MIT grad whose daddy taught at Cornell are holding down a garrison state along the lines of British Hong Kong in the center of four hundred million Arab Muslims. There is no way this situation ends any differently than the Hong Kong colony did.

The Jewishness of Israel is vital only to Christendom. It was liberal guilt over Nazi genocide that tipped the scales in favor of Zionists in England and Europe, creating the Jewish State to begin with. It is the vast political and economic resources of American Jews (some 2% of the US population) which provide the Jews of Israel with the unlimited financial, military and diplomatic resources necessary for continued survival.

These are not pleasant facts and they clash uncomfortably with the touching Bible stories spun by the AIPAC propaganda machine, but facts they are and facts they will remain.

As you said that they forced little Israel in the center of 400 million Arab muslim, and jews should understand it and learned from history.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Israel was the outcome of a successive series of events moving towards self-determination; just as the hardships of the Arab Palestinians was a consequence of very poor self-actualization.

The difference is in the objective and goals.

• The objective of the Arab Palestinian was to "prevent" the Jewish People from achieving an independent state. (The goal was NOT directed at achieving independence for themselves.) (PREVENTION)

• The objective of the Jewish People was to "achieving" an independent state. (The goal was NOT to prevent or hinder the Arab Palestinian from achieving independence.) (ACHIEVEMENT)
​

Was Israel created as part of the resolution 181 process or was it a unilateral move?

(COMMENT)

Israel was a creation of the Jewish People through their exercise of "collective self-determination;" nation building. It was the national aspiration deemed necessary as a matter of cultural self preservation.

The GA Resolution 181 was the "HOW TO BOOK" by the UN and the recommendations of the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP). It was the UNSCOP that wrote the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" (the "HOW") and it was the General Assembly that adopted the recommendation as the proper steps (international consensus). BUT is was the Jewish People that initiated the action, completed the process to the extent possible (opposed by Powerful Arab Forces), and declared independence.

It was the collective decision of the Arab League to use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state (external interference). A violation of the Article 2(4) Principle of the UN Charter.

Most Respectfully,
R

Roccar you are working hard to change the facts, please don't do that. Honesty is good policy. Let the world have peace.

He has changed no facts at all and just posts genuine reports from valid sources to prove muslims are evil, vile and untrustworthy. A thousand years of washing will never remove the blood on your hands

I don't know about roccor, but you are not English neither english is first tongue. What roccor talking about is that elite forces invade holy land from Turkey and gave to Jews and invader makes all laws too. And he is trying to force invader story over 1000 years of holy land history and he wants accept these new facts force by invaders.

I am as much English as you are Islamic, and I can trace my descendants back to the Norman Conquest. You would be lucky if you could trace your grandfather. You are the last person that should be passing any comments on another persons English, as you abuse and bastardise English as if you cant be bothered to learn it.

The muslims from where ever invade everywhere they can to take over the world, then they cry about being invaded themselves and removed from the lands they have stolen. They were invented as land thieves, mass murderers and rapists by the false prophet who made no prophetic announcements at all. They emulate his life with child rape, theft and murder, and complain they are being treated unfairly when they are punished for their crimes.

Now to get back to the topic from the conquest by the Roman Empire till 1960 the only palestinians were the Jews, and to call a muslim a Palestinian was to insult him, his family and his religion.