Our Founding Fathers included Islam

[Coyote]

Yes, Islam was included by our Founding Fathers, BUT the CIA had a COVER UP going and NO ONE has tried a Freedom of Information Act about it!... Proof of Islam at the Founding!!!!

Obama claiming Islam is "woven" into the fabric of America from the founding, has got to be one of the top ten all time most ridiculous statements coming from a president.

If you read the OP....how Islam was a test case for the idea of religious pluralism in our country, and was hotly debated - then yes, it was woven into the fabric of America from it's founding. Not actual Islamic culture but the acceptance of Islam as a religion, that also paved the way for inclusion of Judaism and Catholocism's acceptance because though they were controversial to Protastants, they were less so than Islam. Islam forced us to think and decide what religious pluralism meant and to incorporate it into our Constitutional protections.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.

Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked

And another Myth:
Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check

Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.

"It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage

 

[Coyote]

Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims


At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.

Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com

Too bad they can't seem to get along with anyone.

Oh they get along fine as long as everyone is subjugated to the supremacy of islam. Liberals are the same way they'd like everyone to be subjugated to the will and the supremacy of big government and the oligarchical politicians and bureaucrats

Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear. In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Fact that modern Muslim lawmakers and imams reference ages 6 and 9 in their justifications of such marriages today bears out her age.

 

[Jroc]

Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims


At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.

Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com

Too bad they can't seem to get along with anyone.

Oh they get along fine as long as everyone is subjugated to the supremacy of islam. Liberals are the same way they'd like everyone to be subjugated to the will and the supremacy of big government and the oligarchical politicians and bureaucrats

Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear. In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.

Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?

 

[Coyote]

I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.

Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked

And another Myth:
Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check

Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.

"It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage

Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage

Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter. It doesn't make him a "pedophile".

The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.

 

[Coyote]

Fact that modern Muslim lawmakers and imams reference ages 6 and 9 in their justifications of such marriages today bears out her age.

Not necessarily - it means that there are number of imams who believe it. That doesn't mean it's evidence-based, though in the end it doesn't matter because those lawmakers believe it and rule on it. There is a significant move to in the Islamic world to change that and enforce minimum ages but it's difficult. The move comes from educated more urban districts, but it is difficult to enforce or not enforced in rural, "redneck" regions where the practice of child marriages and forced marriages are more prevalent.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.

Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked

And another Myth:
Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check

Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.

"It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage

Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage

Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter. It doesn't make him a "pedophile".

The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.

Mohammed was not a clinical pedophile. Have wanted to say that but thought better of getting into another what is a pedophile discussion.

 

[Coyote]

Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims


At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.

Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com

Too bad they can't seem to get along with anyone.

Oh they get along fine as long as everyone is subjugated to the supremacy of islam. Liberals are the same way they'd like everyone to be subjugated to the will and the supremacy of big government and the oligarchical politicians and bureaucrats

Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear. In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.

Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?

Translation: I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Fact that modern Muslim lawmakers and imams reference ages 6 and 9 in their justifications of such marriages today bears out her age.

Not necessarily - it means that there are number of imams who believe it. That doesn't mean it's evidence-based, though in the end it doesn't matter because those lawmakers believe it and rule on it. There is a significant move to in the Islamic world to change that and enforce minimum ages but it's difficult. The move comes from educated more urban districts, but it is difficult to enforce or not enforced in rural, "redneck" regions where the practice of child marriages and forced marriages are more prevalent.

What religious texts say, and what religious people say later on are often very different things as we see with Christian depictions of God being some kind of warm and fuzzy Carebear despite half the Bible suggesting otherwise. That modern Muslims might try to cast doubt on her age I'd think is more about how many non-Muslims can now read for themselves a Qur'an or Hadiths in English and being embarassed by such things.

 

[Coyote]

I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.

Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked

And another Myth:
Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check

Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.

"It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage

Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage

Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter. It doesn't make him a "pedophile".

The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.

Mohammed was not a clinical pedophile. Have wanted to say that but thought better of getting into another what is a pedophile discussion.

wise man

I do think though, that the lack of minimum age enforcements for marriage allows free reign for pedophiles. It's actually not just in Islamic countries, but places like Haiti and areas of South America, and Africa. A complicated problem to solve and a sad one because the lives for those girls is often brutal.

 

[pismoe]

I don't like their culture and what I've seen of their religion and many of its practices Coyote [see iran] . As far as getting along with a minority of muslims , well , I have no problem with muslims who mind their own business . I once rented to a family from Pakistan or similar . They were hardworking , clean and paid their rent on time . Problems start though when the minority starts to grow and agitaters like 'cair' organizes the 'imported' muslim population .

 

[Coyote]

I have no problem with any religious or ethnic groups here as long as they follow our laws. We're a country based on freedom and pluralism, and it's been our strength. People are people and there is good and evil in all of them.

 

[Jroc]

Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims


At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.

Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com

Too bad they can't seem to get along with anyone.

Oh they get along fine as long as everyone is subjugated to the supremacy of islam. Liberals are the same way they'd like everyone to be subjugated to the will and the supremacy of big government and the oligarchical politicians and bureaucrats

Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear. In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.

Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?

Translation: I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead.

American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal

Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?

 

[irosie91]

I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.

Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked

And another Myth:
Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check

Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.

"It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage

Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage

Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter. It doesn't make him a "pedophile".

The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.

wrong----the Koran is PERFECT -----never altered------sheeeeesh coyote---
you are either doing the "lie for islam" thing or you never read the Koran and
never talked to a muslim

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, Islam was included by our Founding Fathers, BUT the CIA had a COVER UP going and NO ONE has tried a Freedom of Information Act about it!... Proof of Islam at the Founding!!!!

Obama claiming Islam is "woven" into the fabric of America from the founding, has got to be one of the top ten all time most ridiculous statements coming from a president.

If you read the OP....how Islam was a test case for the idea of religious pluralism in our country, and was hotly debated - then yes, it was woven into the fabric of America from it's founding. Not actual Islamic culture but the acceptance of Islam as a religion, that also paved the way for inclusion of Judaism and Catholocism's acceptance because though they were controversial to Protastants, they were less so than Islam. Islam forced us to think and decide what religious pluralism meant and to incorporate it into our Constitutional protections.

Sorry, I know it offends you, but I will never accept Islam as a true religion.

 

[ChrisL]

I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.

Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked

And another Myth:
Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check

Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.

"It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage

Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage

Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter. It doesn't make him a "pedophile".

The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.

Mohammed was not a clinical pedophile. Have wanted to say that but thought better of getting into another what is a pedophile discussion.

I disagree. A man who would have sex with a child is most definitely a pedophile.

 

[ChrisL]

I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.

Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked

And another Myth:
Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check

Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.

"It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage

Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage

Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter. It doesn't make him a "pedophile".

The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.

Mohammed was not a clinical pedophile. Have wanted to say that but thought better of getting into another what is a pedophile discussion.

To be able to get an erection for a 9-year-old CHILD and carry through with having sex with her is the epitome of pedophilia.

 

[Jroc]

I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.

Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked

And another Myth:
Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check

Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.

"It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage

Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage

Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter. It doesn't make him a "pedophile".

The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.

wrong----the Koran is PERFECT -----never altered------sheeeeesh coyote---
you are either doing the "lie for islam" thing or you never read the Koran and
never talked to a muslim

It's the former not the latter

 

[pismoe]

they don't just follow the laws Coyote , they try to change the laws !! So then the USA ends up with politicians that pander to these special interest groups that base their existence on their religion . Might be different if they came in naturally , obeyed the existing laws and mixed into the American population .