Oregon imposes gag order on Christian bakers in gay wedding case

[dblack]

must a butcher who sells regular meat provide kosher or halaal meat to those 'different' customers....?

No. Public Accommodation laws do not mandate what goods and services a business offers.

Public Accommodation laws require that if such goods and sevices were offerred (kosher or halall meets) then those goods and services cannot be denied based on the race, religion, national origin, sex, and in some states sexual orientation of the customer.

If the butcher doesn't stock kosher or halaal meets, they don't have to sell them to anyone. However if they do sell them, they cannot refuse to sell them to - say - an Chinese person because they are Chinese.

if he doesn't does that mean he is 'denying service to an immutable trait of his customer'......?

A trait doesn't have to be "immutable" to be valid under State Public Accommodation laws. Religion is not an "immutable" characteristic. Illinois, as an example, also lists veterans status (a non-immutable trait). Oregon, as an example, also lists marital status (a non-immutable trait) under it's PA laws.

See note above, since they are not required to sell kosher or halaal meets - your question is moot.

is the butcher 'denying freedom' to those Jewish and Muslim shoppers....?

No see first note, since they are not required to sell kosher or halaal meets - your question is moot.


>>>>

Right. PA laws don't actually require that a business owner treat everyone equally, or fairly. Or even that they don't discriminate. What PA laws ban is making a political statement via business choices. A baker, for example, can refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding for any number of arbitrary, even nonsensical reasons, but if they do it as expression of their disapproval of gay weddings, the law steps in to silence them.

These laws specifically target opinions that the government wants to suppress. It's hard to believe the Court can't see that this is a violation of the spirit, and letter, of the First Amendment.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Here is what wedding cakes look like:

And that's what same sex couples expect. The exact same level of service provided to customers these bakers are not afraid of.bakers are not of.

those are all special order cakes....they fall in the category of 'speciality' cakes......the baker does not have to provide them....

The law in Oragon is that places of Public Accommodation must provide "full and equal" access to goods and services. If they do special services as a part of their business model then they cannot deny service based on the customers "race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, marital status or age if the individual is 18 years of age or older."



ORS 659A.403 - Discrimination in place of public accommodation prohibited - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes


>>>>

 

[ScreamingEagle]

i thought it was the customer who had the choice to buy or not buy....the freedom to shop wherever he got what he wanted...

are you saying a shop keeper must supply whatever any customer demanded...?

I'm saying if the shopkeeper is in business to serve the public he should serve the public. When he put's that open for business sign up, he should not be able to pick his customers based on race, sex, ethnic origins, or sexual preference.

what about religion....?

isn't the 'ordinary' butcher picking customers based on religion....?

You don't seem to grasp this. Let's try again.

Wedding cakes are on the menu at the bakery. The baker is discriminating against homosexuals by not providing an item that is part and parcel of his normal business.

A butcher may or may not go to the trouble of certifying his shop as Kosher or Halaal. If he does decide that his business should offer Kosher or Halaal products, he has to offer those product to the general public.

If a customer wants Kosher/Halaal products, he should go to a butcher offering such products as a normal part of his business.

If you offer products, be they wedding cakes or Kosher chicken, you have to sell to the general public. If you want specialized products, the customer cannot demand the proprietor to provide items beyond his menu.

a generic wedding cake typically has one man - one woman figures on the top.....the baker would have to change his product to accommodate two gays or two lesbians...thus he would be getting into a specialty product....much like the Kosher or Halaal products...

No baker is required to carry bride/bride or groom/groom toppers. The cake is the same and in some places you are required to bake it for gay couples just like straight couples if you bake wedding cakes.

of course they are not 'required' to provide toppers....just as they should not be 'required' to bake wedding cakes for gays...

gays once wanted tolerance and they got it.....now they want complete acceptance and approval and conjoining....this steps on the beliefs and practices of others...

 

[Flopper]

I'm saying if the shopkeeper is in business to serve the public he should serve the public. When he put's that open for business sign up, he should not be able to pick his customers based on race, sex, ethnic origins, or sexual preference.

what about religion....?

isn't the 'ordinary' butcher picking customers based on religion....?

You don't seem to grasp this. Let's try again.

Wedding cakes are on the menu at the bakery. The baker is discriminating against homosexuals by not providing an item that is part and parcel of his normal business.

A butcher may or may not go to the trouble of certifying his shop as Kosher or Halaal. If he does decide that his business should offer Kosher or Halaal products, he has to offer those product to the general public.

If a customer wants Kosher/Halaal products, he should go to a butcher offering such products as a normal part of his business.

If you offer products, be they wedding cakes or Kosher chicken, you have to sell to the general public. If you want specialized products, the customer cannot demand the proprietor to provide items beyond his menu.

a generic wedding cake typically has one man - one woman figures on the top.....the baker would have to change his product to accommodate two gays or two lesbians...thus he would be getting into a specialty product....much like the Kosher or Halaal products...

Customizing wedding cakes is a service offered by bakers who sell wedding cakes. You choose size, decoration, and the type of cake. If the Oregon bakery produced only standard unaccustomed cakes and had been willing to sell the gay couple such a cake, then there would have been no issue. The point being that service was denied for one reason only, the couple was gay. The denial of service had nothing to do with the decoration of the cake.

yes that IS the point.....

freedom of religion vs sexual-orientation discrimination.......which one should win...?

seems to me that freedom of religion came first....i don't see anything about sexual orientation in the Constitution.....

I think both the public and the courts have already made that decision.

Immigration, Executive Orders, Judicial Review, political parties, right to privacy, and dozens of other principals and institutions that are part of the foundation of our society were never mentioned in the constitution.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

what about religion....?

isn't the 'ordinary' butcher picking customers based on religion....?

You don't seem to grasp this. Let's try again.

Wedding cakes are on the menu at the bakery. The baker is discriminating against homosexuals by not providing an item that is part and parcel of his normal business.

A butcher may or may not go to the trouble of certifying his shop as Kosher or Halaal. If he does decide that his business should offer Kosher or Halaal products, he has to offer those product to the general public.

If a customer wants Kosher/Halaal products, he should go to a butcher offering such products as a normal part of his business.

If you offer products, be they wedding cakes or Kosher chicken, you have to sell to the general public. If you want specialized products, the customer cannot demand the proprietor to provide items beyond his menu.

a generic wedding cake typically has one man - one woman figures on the top.....the baker would have to change his product to accommodate two gays or two lesbians...thus he would be getting into a specialty product....much like the Kosher or Halaal products...

Customizing wedding cakes is a service offered by bakers who sell wedding cakes. You choose size, decoration, and the type of cake. If the Oregon bakery produced only standard unaccustomed cakes and had been willing to sell the gay couple such a cake, then there would have been no issue. The point being that service was denied for one reason only, the couple was gay. The denial of service had nothing to do with the decoration of the cake.

yes that IS the point.....

freedom of religion vs sexual-orientation discrimination.......which one should win...?

seems to me that freedom of religion came first....i don't see anything about sexual orientation in the Constitution.....

I think both the public and the courts have already made that decision.

Immigration, Executive Orders, Judicial Review, political parties, right to privacy, and dozens of other principals and institutions that are part of the foundation of our society were never mentioned in the constitution.

like abortion.... this matter is not over in the long haul...

this country was founded with Christian values but modern hedonistic relativist secularists are shredding our Constitution to smithereens....we either find our religious roots again or our country is doomed....

 

[dblack]

You don't seem to grasp this. Let's try again.

Wedding cakes are on the menu at the bakery. The baker is discriminating against homosexuals by not providing an item that is part and parcel of his normal business.

A butcher may or may not go to the trouble of certifying his shop as Kosher or Halaal. If he does decide that his business should offer Kosher or Halaal products, he has to offer those product to the general public.

If a customer wants Kosher/Halaal products, he should go to a butcher offering such products as a normal part of his business.

If you offer products, be they wedding cakes or Kosher chicken, you have to sell to the general public. If you want specialized products, the customer cannot demand the proprietor to provide items beyond his menu.

a generic wedding cake typically has one man - one woman figures on the top.....the baker would have to change his product to accommodate two gays or two lesbians...thus he would be getting into a specialty product....much like the Kosher or Halaal products...

Customizing wedding cakes is a service offered by bakers who sell wedding cakes. You choose size, decoration, and the type of cake. If the Oregon bakery produced only standard unaccustomed cakes and had been willing to sell the gay couple such a cake, then there would have been no issue. The point being that service was denied for one reason only, the couple was gay. The denial of service had nothing to do with the decoration of the cake.

yes that IS the point.....

freedom of religion vs sexual-orientation discrimination.......which one should win...?

seems to me that freedom of religion came first....i don't see anything about sexual orientation in the Constitution.....

I think both the public and the courts have already made that decision.

Immigration, Executive Orders, Judicial Review, political parties, right to privacy, and dozens of other principals and institutions that are part of the foundation of our society were never mentioned in the constitution.

like abortion.... this matter is not over in the long haul...

this country was founded with Christian values but modern hedonistic relativist secularists are shredding our Constitution to smithereens....we either find our religious roots again or our country is doomed....

Nope. This country was founded on the idea that government had no business telling us what our religious values should be. That's what we're pissing away, with both sides willing to force their idea of the 'good life' on the other.

 

[Seawytch]

I'm saying if the shopkeeper is in business to serve the public he should serve the public. When he put's that open for business sign up, he should not be able to pick his customers based on race, sex, ethnic origins, or sexual preference.

what about religion....?

isn't the 'ordinary' butcher picking customers based on religion....?

You don't seem to grasp this. Let's try again.

Wedding cakes are on the menu at the bakery. The baker is discriminating against homosexuals by not providing an item that is part and parcel of his normal business.

A butcher may or may not go to the trouble of certifying his shop as Kosher or Halaal. If he does decide that his business should offer Kosher or Halaal products, he has to offer those product to the general public.

If a customer wants Kosher/Halaal products, he should go to a butcher offering such products as a normal part of his business.

If you offer products, be they wedding cakes or Kosher chicken, you have to sell to the general public. If you want specialized products, the customer cannot demand the proprietor to provide items beyond his menu.

a generic wedding cake typically has one man - one woman figures on the top.....the baker would have to change his product to accommodate two gays or two lesbians...thus he would be getting into a specialty product....much like the Kosher or Halaal products...

No baker is required to carry bride/bride or groom/groom toppers. The cake is the same and in some places you are required to bake it for gay couples just like straight couples if you bake wedding cakes.

of course they are not 'required' to provide toppers....just as they should not be 'required' to bake wedding cakes for gays...

gays once wanted tolerance and they got it.....now they want complete acceptance and approval and conjoining....this steps on the beliefs and practices of others...

You are mistaken. In some places if you are a baker that bakes wedding cakes, you must sell the same cake to a gay couple that you just sold to a straight couple.

In all 50 states a gay person MUST serve a Christian.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

a generic wedding cake typically has one man - one woman figures on the top.....the baker would have to change his product to accommodate two gays or two lesbians...thus he would be getting into a specialty product....much like the Kosher or Halaal products...

Customizing wedding cakes is a service offered by bakers who sell wedding cakes. You choose size, decoration, and the type of cake. If the Oregon bakery produced only standard unaccustomed cakes and had been willing to sell the gay couple such a cake, then there would have been no issue. The point being that service was denied for one reason only, the couple was gay. The denial of service had nothing to do with the decoration of the cake.

yes that IS the point.....

freedom of religion vs sexual-orientation discrimination.......which one should win...?

seems to me that freedom of religion came first....i don't see anything about sexual orientation in the Constitution.....

I think both the public and the courts have already made that decision.

Immigration, Executive Orders, Judicial Review, political parties, right to privacy, and dozens of other principals and institutions that are part of the foundation of our society were never mentioned in the constitution.

like abortion.... this matter is not over in the long haul...

this country was founded with Christian values but modern hedonistic relativist secularists are shredding our Constitution to smithereens....we either find our religious roots again or our country is doomed....

Nope. This country was founded on the idea that government had no business telling us what our religious values should be. That's what we're pissing away, with both sides willing to force their idea of the 'good life' on the other.

that's right....you wouldn't have this nation without its Christian roots...complete with tolerance for all...

yet here we have the modern day INtolerant secularists telling us to ignore our religious beliefs....to be complicit in sinful ceremonies...

 

[ScreamingEagle]

what about religion....?

isn't the 'ordinary' butcher picking customers based on religion....?

You don't seem to grasp this. Let's try again.

Wedding cakes are on the menu at the bakery. The baker is discriminating against homosexuals by not providing an item that is part and parcel of his normal business.

A butcher may or may not go to the trouble of certifying his shop as Kosher or Halaal. If he does decide that his business should offer Kosher or Halaal products, he has to offer those product to the general public.

If a customer wants Kosher/Halaal products, he should go to a butcher offering such products as a normal part of his business.

If you offer products, be they wedding cakes or Kosher chicken, you have to sell to the general public. If you want specialized products, the customer cannot demand the proprietor to provide items beyond his menu.

a generic wedding cake typically has one man - one woman figures on the top.....the baker would have to change his product to accommodate two gays or two lesbians...thus he would be getting into a specialty product....much like the Kosher or Halaal products...

No baker is required to carry bride/bride or groom/groom toppers. The cake is the same and in some places you are required to bake it for gay couples just like straight couples if you bake wedding cakes.

of course they are not 'required' to provide toppers....just as they should not be 'required' to bake wedding cakes for gays...

gays once wanted tolerance and they got it.....now they want complete acceptance and approval and conjoining....this steps on the beliefs and practices of others...

You are mistaken. In some places if you are a baker that bakes wedding cakes, you must sell the same cake to a gay couple that you just sold to a straight couple.

In all 50 states a gay person MUST serve a Christian.

i guess it is time for people to start establishing specialized Christian bakeries that only sell Christian wedding cakes.....just like there are Halaal butchers that only sell halaal meat....and gays can establish their own bakeries that sell rainbow wedding cakes....

 

[Seawytch]

You don't seem to grasp this. Let's try again.

Wedding cakes are on the menu at the bakery. The baker is discriminating against homosexuals by not providing an item that is part and parcel of his normal business.

A butcher may or may not go to the trouble of certifying his shop as Kosher or Halaal. If he does decide that his business should offer Kosher or Halaal products, he has to offer those product to the general public.

If a customer wants Kosher/Halaal products, he should go to a butcher offering such products as a normal part of his business.

If you offer products, be they wedding cakes or Kosher chicken, you have to sell to the general public. If you want specialized products, the customer cannot demand the proprietor to provide items beyond his menu.

a generic wedding cake typically has one man - one woman figures on the top.....the baker would have to change his product to accommodate two gays or two lesbians...thus he would be getting into a specialty product....much like the Kosher or Halaal products...

No baker is required to carry bride/bride or groom/groom toppers. The cake is the same and in some places you are required to bake it for gay couples just like straight couples if you bake wedding cakes.

of course they are not 'required' to provide toppers....just as they should not be 'required' to bake wedding cakes for gays...

gays once wanted tolerance and they got it.....now they want complete acceptance and approval and conjoining....this steps on the beliefs and practices of others...

You are mistaken. In some places if you are a baker that bakes wedding cakes, you must sell the same cake to a gay couple that you just sold to a straight couple.

In all 50 states a gay person MUST serve a Christian.

i guess it is time for people to start establishing specialized Christian bakeries that only sell Christian wedding cakes.....just like there are Halaal butchers that only sell halaal meat....and gays can establish their own bakeries that sell rainbow wedding cakes....

They would still have to sell them to gay couples. They could become a private club or a church.

 

[Nosmo King]

You don't seem to grasp this. Let's try again.

Wedding cakes are on the menu at the bakery. The baker is discriminating against homosexuals by not providing an item that is part and parcel of his normal business.

A butcher may or may not go to the trouble of certifying his shop as Kosher or Halaal. If he does decide that his business should offer Kosher or Halaal products, he has to offer those product to the general public.

If a customer wants Kosher/Halaal products, he should go to a butcher offering such products as a normal part of his business.

If you offer products, be they wedding cakes or Kosher chicken, you have to sell to the general public. If you want specialized products, the customer cannot demand the proprietor to provide items beyond his menu.

a generic wedding cake typically has one man - one woman figures on the top.....the baker would have to change his product to accommodate two gays or two lesbians...thus he would be getting into a specialty product....much like the Kosher or Halaal products...

No baker is required to carry bride/bride or groom/groom toppers. The cake is the same and in some places you are required to bake it for gay couples just like straight couples if you bake wedding cakes.

of course they are not 'required' to provide toppers....just as they should not be 'required' to bake wedding cakes for gays...

gays once wanted tolerance and they got it.....now they want complete acceptance and approval and conjoining....this steps on the beliefs and practices of others...

You are mistaken. In some places if you are a baker that bakes wedding cakes, you must sell the same cake to a gay couple that you just sold to a straight couple.

In all 50 states a gay person MUST serve a Christian.

i guess it is time for people to start establishing specialized Christian bakeries that only sell Christian wedding cakes.....just like there are Halaal butchers that only sell halaal meat....and gays can establish their own bakeries that sell rainbow wedding cakes....

Perhaps those Christian b
Averie's should post a sign so there can be of confusion about their discriminatory policies. Maybe something that says:

DUE TO OUR LOVE AND DEVOTION TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST, WE REFUSE TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBORS AS OURSELVES.

Or maybe:

DUE TO OUR DEEP AND ABIDING FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OUR CUSTOMERS EVEN THOUGH WE OURSELVES WILL BE JUDGED.

 

[The Rabbi]

a generic wedding cake typically has one man - one woman figures on the top.....the baker would have to change his product to accommodate two gays or two lesbians...thus he would be getting into a specialty product....much like the Kosher or Halaal products...

No baker is required to carry bride/bride or groom/groom toppers. The cake is the same and in some places you are required to bake it for gay couples just like straight couples if you bake wedding cakes.

of course they are not 'required' to provide toppers....just as they should not be 'required' to bake wedding cakes for gays...

gays once wanted tolerance and they got it.....now they want complete acceptance and approval and conjoining....this steps on the beliefs and practices of others...

You are mistaken. In some places if you are a baker that bakes wedding cakes, you must sell the same cake to a gay couple that you just sold to a straight couple.

In all 50 states a gay person MUST serve a Christian.

i guess it is time for people to start establishing specialized Christian bakeries that only sell Christian wedding cakes.....just like there are Halaal butchers that only sell halaal meat....and gays can establish their own bakeries that sell rainbow wedding cakes....

Perhaps those Christian b
Averie's should post a sign so there can be of confusion about their discriminatory policies. Maybe something that says:

DUE TO OUR LOVE AND DEVOTION TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST, WE REFUSE TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBORS AS OURSELVES.

Or maybe:

DUE TO OUR DEEP AND ABIDING FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OUR CUSTOMERS EVEN THOUGH WE OURSELVES WILL BE JUDGED.

How about:
OUR FAITH IS OURS AND NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS.
OUR BUSINESS IS OURS AND NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS.

Might need some work on the tone but the substance is good.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

a generic wedding cake typically has one man - one woman figures on the top.....the baker would have to change his product to accommodate two gays or two lesbians...thus he would be getting into a specialty product....much like the Kosher or Halaal products...

No baker is required to carry bride/bride or groom/groom toppers. The cake is the same and in some places you are required to bake it for gay couples just like straight couples if you bake wedding cakes.

of course they are not 'required' to provide toppers....just as they should not be 'required' to bake wedding cakes for gays...

gays once wanted tolerance and they got it.....now they want complete acceptance and approval and conjoining....this steps on the beliefs and practices of others...

You are mistaken. In some places if you are a baker that bakes wedding cakes, you must sell the same cake to a gay couple that you just sold to a straight couple.

In all 50 states a gay person MUST serve a Christian.

i guess it is time for people to start establishing specialized Christian bakeries that only sell Christian wedding cakes.....just like there are Halaal butchers that only sell halaal meat....and gays can establish their own bakeries that sell rainbow wedding cakes....

Perhaps those Christian b
Averie's should post a sign so there can be of confusion about their discriminatory policies. Maybe something that says:

DUE TO OUR LOVE AND DEVOTION TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST, WE REFUSE TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBORS AS OURSELVES.

Or maybe:

DUE TO OUR DEEP AND ABIDING FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OUR CUSTOMERS EVEN THOUGH WE OURSELVES WILL BE JUDGED.

you mean like the gay customers are judging the bakers.....? not to mention suing them and fining them $135,000 putting them out of business.....?

like the gay mafia is SO full of love for their religious neighbors....

 

[Nosmo King]

No baker is required to carry bride/bride or groom/groom toppers. The cake is the same and in some places you are required to bake it for gay couples just like straight couples if you bake wedding cakes.

of course they are not 'required' to provide toppers....just as they should not be 'required' to bake wedding cakes for gays...

gays once wanted tolerance and they got it.....now they want complete acceptance and approval and conjoining....this steps on the beliefs and practices of others...

You are mistaken. In some places if you are a baker that bakes wedding cakes, you must sell the same cake to a gay couple that you just sold to a straight couple.

In all 50 states a gay person MUST serve a Christian.

i guess it is time for people to start establishing specialized Christian bakeries that only sell Christian wedding cakes.....just like there are Halaal butchers that only sell halaal meat....and gays can establish their own bakeries that sell rainbow wedding cakes....

Perhaps those Christian b
Averie's should post a sign so there can be of confusion about their discriminatory policies. Maybe something that says:

DUE TO OUR LOVE AND DEVOTION TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST, WE REFUSE TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBORS AS OURSELVES.

Or maybe:

DUE TO OUR DEEP AND ABIDING FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OUR CUSTOMERS EVEN THOUGH WE OURSELVES WILL BE JUDGED.

How about:
OUR FAITH IS OURS AND NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS.
OUR BUSINESS IS OURS AND NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS.

Might need some work on the tone but the substance is good.

Yeah. Using "FUCKING" along side "FAITH" is more revealing than you might imagine. As in, using "FUCKING" denotes what a shallow faith it is.

 

[Nosmo King]

No baker is required to carry bride/bride or groom/groom toppers. The cake is the same and in some places you are required to bake it for gay couples just like straight couples if you bake wedding cakes.

of course they are not 'required' to provide toppers....just as they should not be 'required' to bake wedding cakes for gays...

gays once wanted tolerance and they got it.....now they want complete acceptance and approval and conjoining....this steps on the beliefs and practices of others...

You are mistaken. In some places if you are a baker that bakes wedding cakes, you must sell the same cake to a gay couple that you just sold to a straight couple.

In all 50 states a gay person MUST serve a Christian.

i guess it is time for people to start establishing specialized Christian bakeries that only sell Christian wedding cakes.....just like there are Halaal butchers that only sell halaal meat....and gays can establish their own bakeries that sell rainbow wedding cakes....

Perhaps those Christian b
Averie's should post a sign so there can be of confusion about their discriminatory policies. Maybe something that says:

DUE TO OUR LOVE AND DEVOTION TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST, WE REFUSE TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBORS AS OURSELVES.

Or maybe:

DUE TO OUR DEEP AND ABIDING FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OUR CUSTOMERS EVEN THOUGH WE OURSELVES WILL BE JUDGED.

you mean like the gay customers are judging the bakers.....? not to mention suing them and fining them $135,000 putting them out of business.....?

like the gay mafia is SO full of love for their religious neighbors....

The bakers are making the judgment. The same sex couples are merely customers who are rightfully expecting to receive the same level of service as any other customer.

What judgments are you thinking that the customers are making? The baker definitely made a judgment about the customer. But what makes you think that the customer is making a judgment?

 

[WorldWatcher]

i guess it is time for people to start establishing specialized Christian bakeries that only sell Christian wedding cakes.....just like there are Halaal butchers that only sell halaal meat....and gays can establish their own bakeries that sell rainbow wedding cakes....

Psst.

If a butcher is a Halaal butcher under the Muslim Faith, that doesn't mean that he can refuse to sell Halaal meets to Jews or Atheists. Halaal has to do with how the food is prepared, it has nothing to do with to whom the food is sold.

There is no such thing as a "Christian" wedding cake (just as there are no "gay" wedding cakes). There are "wedding cakes" and the customer is Christian or gay.

What you are not getting the same product is being refused based on who the customer is, not anything special about the product.


>>>>

 

[PostmodernProph]

well you might understand better if you went to a Muslim bakery and asked them to bake a gay wedding cake for you....i am sure they would inform you in no uncertain terms why they would not do so..... and if you didn't like their explanation and tried to sue them then you would probably be at the wrong end of a fatwa.....

of course this exercise would never happen because lefties and Muslims 'get along'.....

I still don't understand what rights were infringed. Were the Christians kept from worshipping? Was their property damaged? What exactly were the means and methods of the attacks on rights?

their right to practice freedom of religion.....(not to mention their free speech)
of course the left is trying to limit religion to the confines of a church...and ban it from the public square...

The freedom to choose your customers requires a rather broad interpretation of freedom of religion, so broad that it would open the door for a person or business to do just about anything under the guise of freedom of religion.

so much easier to tell them to fuck themselves and get busy baking.....

Thus spake the scofflaw.

"Scofflaw is a noun coined during the Prohibition era meaning a person who drinks illegally. It is a compound of the words scoff and law, meaning one who mocks or ridicules the law"
I can live with that in this case......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Here is what wedding cakes look like:



And that's what same sex couples expect. The exact same level of service provided to customers these bakers are not afraid of.bakers are not of.

this is what you get if you order a "generic" cake....

 

[PostmodernProph]

There is no such thing as a "Christian" wedding cake (just as there are no "gay" wedding cakes). There are "wedding cakes" and the customer is Christian or gay.

/boggle......it isn't a question of "Christian" versus "gay" wedding cakes.....its the difference between real and pretend.......

 

[Seawytch]

There is no such thing as a "Christian" wedding cake (just as there are no "gay" wedding cakes). There are "wedding cakes" and the customer is Christian or gay.

/boggle......it isn't a question of "Christian" versus "gay" wedding cakes.....its the difference between real and pretend.......

A cake is a cake is cake. In some places if you sell a product to straight couples, you cannot refuse to sell the exact same product to gay couples.