OK RWers, Lets Say They Scrap The Bill, Start Over If You Will...

[Liability]

Then what?

What do you do to actually IMPROVE the current system?

And how soon do you plan or expect to do so?

What 'system?'

Health care as provided in this country is not a "system."

And it shouldn't be.

And doing absolutely NOTHING is vastly preferable to the liberal Democrat proposal to create such a "system."

If the delivery of health care in this country does leave too many people inadequately covered, then I am perfectly game to consider RATIONAL alternatives to the mess that Reid, Pelousy and the President somehow cobbled together -- in order to address those who lack reasonable health care coverage.

That is a much smaller set of folks in large group known as the American People than the liberal Democrats seek to "cover."

You don't fix something (especially something that isn't even broken) by smashing it to pieces and then creating a massive bureaucracy that will not and cannot accomplish at least as much as was being done BEFORE the fiddling began.

Like what?

What are the alternatives that YOU find to be sensible?

Please only respond if you intend on being rational.

I have been entirely rational. And YOU are not one to judge.

In any event, what "alternatives?"

Well, for one, we could limit the scope of ANY such legislation to the folks who are actually in need.

By the way, I'm not necessarily endorsing THAT, either. But to the extent that we are bound and determined and hellbent to "do something" (it is true that sometimes doing nothing is better than "doing something"), we probably OUGHT to focus on the ones who are in actual need.

Most of us are not.

 

[beowolfe]

I agree dude, if everyone has coverage, this pre-exisiting garbage, which Democrats let fester for decades and decades and decades when they have had an absolute monopoly on power and government in this nation (had to take a breath), would not be an issue.



Government forced this entire mess on us because of their failures, and it needs to change. We have to figure out a way to remove those two items from their corrupt sales pitch.

You can not deny someone that needs help. I can't, even Right Winger and Jillian I would help.

Change the system or fix it, at NO cost to us. The entire health care concept needs to be flipped on it's head.

It seems to me that it's counterproductive to play the blame game. How do we go forward. And I say we, because this summer made it apparent to me that the congressional republicans are going to bend in the direction of the loudest protest from their party rank and file. So, if the Limbaughs, Coltons, and Palins are going to get the far right foaming about fictitious stuff, then we're stuck with the system we have now and all of its flaws. And double digits premium increase will be our lot for the foreseeable future.

So, what say ye, republicans?

BTW, I don't think changing the system has to cost the taxpayer an arm and a leg; but I can tell you, there is no change that is free. So, the 'NO cost to us' premise, I think, is dead on arrival.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

The Obama already has passed a law making COBRA more affordable.
You might want to look into the ADA as well.
Until then, learn something.

Do you have ANY idea what COBRA costs?

I've paid COBRA before....without the Obama subsidy.
So a hell of alot cheaper now. And depending on your employer, not a lot more than you probably are contributing on your own.

Dude if you are on COBRA you don't HAVE an employer don't you GET IT!!!???

 

[ItHappens]

The number one thing that will bring down cost of any product is competition.
Sign Legislation tomorrow allowing for cross state marketing/coverage of products.
Available I would imagine within 6 months.

 

[MarcATL]

"The ones who are in need."

Care to expound on that one there Liability?

Cause I don't get it.

 

[ItHappens]

Do you have ANY idea what COBRA costs?

I've paid COBRA before....without the Obama subsidy.
So a hell of alot cheaper now. And depending on your employer, not a lot more than you probably are contributing on your own.

Dude if you are on COBRA you don't HAVE an employer don't you GET IT!!!???

I get it. I think you have comprehension issues. Which is common among your species.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Hey Liability have you considered how much it costs the US and those who HAVE coverage to treat people in the ER INSTEAD of people having PREVENTATIVE health coverage?

 

[slackjawed]

yes, cobra is a little unworkable for most folks that become unemployed. But the idea when it was passed was more for when people changed jobs, or at least that was the argument in congress i remember happening. If you change jobs it does cover you until the new plan kicks in.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

The number one thing that will bring down cost of any product is competition.
Sign Legislation tomorrow allowing for cross state marketing/coverage of products.
Available I would imagine within 6 months.

So ALL the ins cos will be based out of the state that has the MOST lax laws? How will that help?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

yes, cobra is a little unworkable for most folks that become unemployed. But the idea when it was passed was more for when people changed jobs, or at least that was the argument in congress i remember happening. If you change jobs it does cover you until the new plan kicks in.

IF you can afford it for even THREE MONTHS!

 

[beowolfe]

Then what?

What do you do to actually IMPROVE the current system?

And how soon do you plan or expect to do so?

What 'system?'

Health care as provided in this country is not a "system."

And it shouldn't be.

And doing absolutely NOTHING is vastly preferable to the liberal Democrat proposal to create such a "system."

If the delivery of health care in this country does leave too many people inadequately covered, then I am perfectly game to consider RATIONAL alternatives to the mess that Reid, Pelousy and the President somehow cobbled together -- in order to address those who lack reasonable health care coverage.

That is a much smaller set of folks in large group known as the American People than the liberal Democrats seek to "cover."

You don't fix something (especially something that isn't even broken) by smashing it to pieces and then creating a massive bureaucracy that will not and cannot accomplish at least as much as was being done BEFORE the fiddling began.

as i posted before, we should fix the exisiting problems and then decide what else to do, if anything.
We don't need more laws to fix institutionalized insurance fraud, those laws are already on the books, just not enforced.

Not broken? Did you not hear about the Anthem premium increase? A not broken system doesn't have 39% rate increases. I'm afraid that if we can't even agree that the system is broken; it doesn't bode well of the American people.

How many of you can handle a 39% increase in your health insurance premiums?

 

[slackjawed]

Hey Liability have you considered how much it costs the US and those who HAVE coverage to treat people in the ER INSTEAD of people having PREVENTATIVE health coverage?

It is illegal to deny emergency medical care to anyone in the USA, even illegals.
I see that as a law that we should all be proud of.
The people that take advantage of our country's good nature should however, be seen as scum.......

 

[KissMy]

Republicans are NOT the party of NO! They have proposed this list of bills There is more than one way to fix healthcare. The democrats only have a one track mindset.

Congressional Budget Office Says Preventive Care Will Raise Medical Cost, Not Cut Costs

We need to restrict malpractice claims against doctors who are only there to help. This will also reduce malpractice insurance.

We need to remove the antitrust exemption for the insurance industry was established in the 1945 McCarran-Ferguson Act. The insurance industry has a special statutory exemption from the antitrust laws allowing them to employ price fixing, bid rigging, and market allocations. Insurers should be subject to the same antitrust laws as everyone else.” Congress needs to pass S.1681 - Health Insurance Industry Antitrust Enforcement Act of 2009 This Act repeals the insurance industry exemption for the most egregious forms of antitrust violations - price fixing, bid rigging, and market allocations. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMN2AXyBsp0&feature=related"]Repeal Antitrust Exemption[/ame]

We need to increase the supply side. This means encourage more students to enrole into medical school instead of allowing the AMA to restrict enrolement to keep medical cost high.

They told me I was too smart to go into primary care "Everyone told me it was the wrong thing to do," recalls Dr. Jennifer Weyler, explaining her decision two years ago as a medical student to become a family doctor. "My teachers discouraged me; administrators discouraged me. They told me I was too smart to go into primary care or that the job wouldn't be enough of a challenge." And sure enough, Weyler, now a resident in family medicine at the University of Massachusetts, is frustrated - but not by her job, which she loves. "It frustrates me," she explains, "to have to continually explain to people what a primary care practitioner is."

It was only 50 years ago, after all, that no one had to be told what a family doctor was, mainly because that's about all there was. Eighty-seven percent of all doctors in the thirties were general practitioner - namely internists, pediatricians, and family doctors. Today that figure has dropped to 30 percent.

A New England Medical Center's Health Institute study in 1992 found that specialists order more tests, perform more procedures, and hospitalize patients more often than primary care doctors treating similar symptoms. Family practitioners are less likely to hospitalize patients than specialists treating patients who had similar levels of illness, according to a recent Journal of the American Medical Association report. A 1990 study estimated that a 50-50 mix of primary care doctors to specialists would produce a 39 percent reduction in total expenditures for physician services. "Primary care protects people from unwanted procedures," explains Fitzhugh Mullan, an assistant U.S. surgeon general "General practitioners look at risks and benefits, both in terms of care and costs."

The American Medical Association is a trade union that limits the number of people who can enter medical school. Control over admission to medical school and later licensure enables the profession to limit entry in two ways. The obvious one is simply by turning down many applicants. The less obvious, but probably far more important one, is by establishing standards for admission and licensure that make entry so difficult as to discourage young people from ever trying to get admission.

Like the AMA, SEIU is largely a medical trade union who wrote Obamacare H.R.3200. Obama is the SEIU union boss negotiating their pay contract with the US citizens. These unions will pay lower premiums & get more benefits than the average citizen under Obamacare. "SEIU's Agenda is My Agenda!!!" said Obama "Together we had fought to raise wages for home care workers in Illinois." SEIU Employees are getting a Big Raise with Obamacare. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ1NJaCtIkM"]Obama - SEIU's Agenda is My Agenda[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5alq_p7RaA&feature=related"]Takeover & Deception[/ame]

Do you really want more rationing & higher medical cost? Adding a 2,000 page bureaucracy congress did not read forcing everyone into that system will make prices even higher & care worse for us that pay for it. Unlike the H.R.3200 health care bill passed by the house that does away with private health care & forces me to pay more for less, there is no public option, only mandated government healthcare! Start reading at page 16 of H.R.3200

10 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first
15 effective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.

This will cause private insurance pools to shrink until that company goes out of business forcing everyone onto the option-less government plan. I would at least like the option to provide my own health care. A 10 page health care bill would be enough. [ame="httphttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcBaSP31Be8&feature=player_embedded"]Whats in H.R.3200[/ame]

 

[MarcATL]

You know...isn't it more SENSIBLE to actually LOWER a person's insurance costs at the time of unemployment?

Or do a certain segment of the population believe that only people who are gainfully employed deserve to be insured?

 

[beowolfe]

I've paid COBRA before....without the Obama subsidy.
So a hell of alot cheaper now. And depending on your employer, not a lot more than you probably are contributing on your own.

Dude if you are on COBRA you don't HAVE an employer don't you GET IT!!!???

I get it. I think you have comprehension issues. Which is common among your species.

My experience with Cobra has been in trying to help friends and former co-workers enroll. And it's been my experience that Cobra premiums far exceed the premiums they paid when they were working. Couple that with the fact that they were unemployed and trying to afford Cobra made it practically impossible. They had to choose between paying the utility bills and paying cobra.

 

[skookerasbil]

A new bill??? After today???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zoom-boing]

Can't they offer an alternative to employer based insurance?

You're offered a job at $40K/yr with health insurance (which costs the company $15K/yr) OR you take the job without taking the health insurance but get paid $55K/yr and find insurance on your own. You could get group rates by joining others who want to participate in xx plan with xx company. That way if you lose your job you don't lose your insurance. I think it's stupid that health insurance is so tied to employment.

 

[slackjawed]

Can't they offer an alternative to employer based insurance?

You're offered a job at $40K/yr with health insurance (which costs the company $15K/yr) OR you take the job without taking the health insurance but get paid $55K/yr and find insurance on your own. You could get group rates by joining others who want to participate in xx plan with xx company. That way if you lose your job you don't lose your insurance. I think it's stupid that health insurance is so tied to employment.

thank a union.......

 

[KissMy]

Hey Liability have you considered how much it costs the US and those who HAVE coverage to treat people in the ER INSTEAD of people having PREVENTATIVE health coverage?

Congressional Budget Office Says Preventive Care Will Raise Medical Cost, Not Cut Costs

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Dude if you are on COBRA you don't HAVE an employer don't you GET IT!!!???

I get it. I think you have comprehension issues. Which is common among your species.

My experience with Cobra has been in trying to help friends and former co-workers enroll. And it's been my experience that Cobra premiums far exceed the premiums they paid when they were working. Couple that with the fact that they were unemployed and trying to afford Cobra made it practically impossible. They had to choose between paying the utility bills and paying cobra.

More like paying you MORTGAGE or COBRA!