OK RWers, Lets Say They Scrap The Bill, Start Over If You Will...

[Cold Fusion38]

"The ones who are in need."

Care to expound on that one there Liability?

Cause I don't get it.

Those who... to not fault of their own... cannot afford insurance. Something like 80% of people in the US are perfectly happy with their health insurance and healthcare provided to them. Don't change anything for them. Let them keep what they have.

Only cover those that need it.

BULLSHIT!!!!! I have coverage through my wifes employer and our premiums have gone up 50% over two years and DEDUCTABLES have increased while coverage limits have DECREASED so NO I am NOT "happy" with my coverage and i doubt that those who are facing a 39% increase are "happy" with their coverage either.


I think when you start seeing people DYING in the streets and DISEASE spreading unchecked you will see the value of UNIVERSAL health care.

 

[slackjawed]

Yeah I am SURE there are TONS of jobs that pay enough to cover $15K a year in health care costs.

And yet you suppose everyone else has the money to pay for their healthcare? Nice plan.

A perfect example of an attitude of entitlement.......

Nobody comes into this world with the guarantee of a long life, or a quality life.
Why do some expect that the government OWES them both of those things, that g_d himself does not provide?

 

[slackjawed]

"The ones who are in need."

Care to expound on that one there Liability?

Cause I don't get it.

Those who... to not fault of their own... cannot afford insurance. Something like 80% of people in the US are perfectly happy with their health insurance and healthcare provided to them. Don't change anything for them. Let them keep what they have.

Only cover those that need it.

BULLSHIT!!!!! I have coverage through my wifes employer and our premiums have gone up 50% over two years and DEDUCTABLES have increased while coverage limits have DECREASED so NO I am NOT "happy" with my coverage and i doubt that those who are facing a 39% increase are "happy" with their coverage either.


I think when you start seeing people DYING in the streets and DISEASE spreading unchecked you will see the value of UNIVERSAL health care.

From a historical perspective, we have seen those things. the government helped by providing national guardsmen to keep people indoors to keep the spreading down, as well as to pick up the bodies and bury them.
I agree that the current problems should be fixed, and that there already laws in place to do so. i do not agree that any of us are entitled to anything more than the opportunity to make our own way in this world, and that inclus=des the freedom to suffer from our own misfortunes.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Their IS a social GOOD that comes from a healthy populace. I don't have any children so I could complain about paying property taxes for public education but guess what, I DON'T because I recognize that an EDUCATED populace has a certain inherant VALUE, a certain social GOOD that justifies MY paying taxes.

 

[Oddball]

That's such a lame platitudinous argument, dude.

 

[oreo]

Which Bill?

That's a good question.

I hear folks on your side repeating, screaming and shouting time and time again..."Scrap the bill! Scrap the bill! Start over!"

I guess that's the bill I'm talking about.

*shrugs*

You do realise that there are two bills. One that passed the senate & one that passed in the house--that are completely different from one another--even though democrats passed each one.

The reconciliation has nothing to do with Republicans--& it has every thing to do with Democrats going over both bills--to come to an agreement. (Republicans can't do anything.) So it's going to be up to Democrats soley--to see if they can agree on any one of these bills.

Republicans want SERIOUS Tort Reform. If Democrats really wanted them there--they would agree to it. As yet--they haven't & don't really look like they have any intention of doing it.

It's going to take a lot of give & take to get any serious health insurance reform going--both sides need to work together. BUT--for the last 9 months it's been all democrats & what democrats want. This is the FIRST time--Republicans have had a say.

I don't know if anything comes out of this--but it's a start.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

REALLY!!!??? So I guess EDUCATION is NOT a right either RIGHT!!!??? So I don't have to pay my property tax since I have no children RIGHT!!!???

 

[Nonelitist]

"The ones who are in need."

Care to expound on that one there Liability?

Cause I don't get it.

Those who... to not fault of their own... cannot afford insurance. Something like 80% of people in the US are perfectly happy with their health insurance and healthcare provided to them. Don't change anything for them. Let them keep what they have.

Only cover those that need it.

Stup





BULLSHIT!!!!! I have coverage through my wifes employer and our premiums have gone up 50% over two years and DEDUCTABLES have increased while coverage limits have DECREASED so NO I am NOT "happy" with my coverage and i doubt that those who are facing a 39% increase are "happy" with their coverage either.


I think when you start seeing people DYING in the streets and DISEASE spreading unchecked you will see the value of UNIVERSAL health care.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/theg...ricans-happy-with-their-health-insurance.aspx

"According to Gallup's data, 87% of people with private insurance and 82% of people on Medicare or Medicaid say that the quality of their health care is excellent or good. Similarly, 75% of those with private plans and 74% on government-run plans rate their insurance plan as excellent or good."



Stupid Shit. Now sit down and suck on your pacifier.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Yeah how about when the rates go up THIRTYNINE %?

 

[slackjawed]

Yeah how about when the rates go up THIRTYNINE %?

You know if you don't want to buy it, you don't have to.........

If enough people stopped buying it, the demand would go down, and the prices would follow.

 

[sboyle24]

Then what?

What do you do to actually IMPROVE the current system?

And how soon do you plan or expect to do so?

Boehner would like to stall as long as possible until he can guarantee nothing will happen.

 

[Nonelitist]

Yeah how about when the rates go up THIRTYNINE %?

Deal with it. Since when you greedy stupid fuck deserve for everyone else to pay for your health insurance when it goes up?

Holy shit you all want something for nothing. Grow up

 

[Oddball]

REALLY!!!??? So I guess EDUCATION is NOT a right either RIGHT!!!??? So I don't have to pay my property tax since I have no children RIGHT!!!???

No, it's not a right...It's a responsibility you take on by becoming a parent.

That said responsibility has been schlepped of onto the society at large is one of the main problems with edumacation today.

 

[Ragnar]

If health care were a "right" I could buy it from any company in any State and it would be illegal for the government to stop me. Let competition reign.

Tort reform or "loser Pays" legal system
How to Fix The Tort System

Long article so I'd recommend skipping down to the bottom half and just reading each part of the "4 point plan".

1. Pay for Performance
Reverse the economics of class-action settlements. Plaintiffs' lawyers should be paid after victims collect their money -- not before. This would have two benefits. First, it would make them more aggressive about getting the word out to class members. Second, and more important, it would filter out a high percentage of the system's silliest claims. One of the main reasons people don't bother to collect class-action benefits is that they don't perceive any injury in the first place. And if people don't think they've been hurt, it's often a strong sign that the case isn't worth bringing.
2. Penalties That Sting
Give judges stronger tools to punish renegade lawyers. Before 1993, it was mandatory for judges to impose sanctions such as public censures, fines, or orders to pay for the other side's legal expenses on lawyers who filed frivolous lawsuits. Then the Civil Rules Advisory Committee (CRAC), an obscure branch of the courts,
3. Curb the Duplication
Corporate America's preferred solution to the duplication problem is so-called preemption -- getting Congress to declare that agency approval of, say, a particular drug blocks subsequent private litigation. That would be fine if agencies had perfect foresight. But as the Vioxx episode proves, they don't. "When you preempt, you make a decision about future cases for all time," says D. Bruce Hoffman, formerly deputy director of the Bureau of Competition at the Federal Trade Commission and now in private practice. Winning preemption "should be a very steep hill [for companies] to climb."

A better solution is a package of more modest reforms. The first one would be eliminating punitive damages for injuries caused by products that have been approved by regulators. The long and involved process of winning over the FDA or NHTSA should, at a minimum, insulate managers from claims that they deserve huge financial penalties for wantonly disregarding the public good (unless executives lied to bureaucrats).
4. Exiting the Tort System
Long and complex issue examining European style "health courts" but summing up thus...
Before reengineering American justice, we should get more information about the problem and experiment with some modest steps. One would be giving juries considering emotional damages guidance about what other juries have done in similar cases. Studies have shown that this would cut down on the unpredictable verdicts that torment doctors and insurers. Another step: publicizing data on how often doctors have been sued for malpractice or disciplined by their states' medical boards.

Less regulation of insurance companies-

I'd love to have the option to pick and chose what illness and injury is to be covered in my plan. Can't do it because the Ins. Companyies are forced to include some types of coverages weather the buyer wants them of the seller wants to sell them. (thank you special intrerest groups and both parties) What if I only what catastophic care plus dental (hit by a bus or "brain cloud" coverage) and can pay for everything else out of hand? To bad I have to pay for all the extra crap that the government says must be included in every policy.

That's selling across State lines, tort reform and regulatory reform. So far, total cost = zero dollars.

Next up, more "less regulation" - (see FDA/DEA)

If some rich guy is dying and wants to try some radical new drug or procedure thats not approved by the FDA and not yet well tested... LET HIM. Let them assume the risk and the cost and they can play guinea pig for the rest of us. Also lighten up and do more testing of medical Mary Jane.

New cost calculation... still $0.

Tax breaks for medical savings accounts. Hell, tax free medical savings accounts. (you can apply taxes if funds get pulled for use in anything other than health issues)

Let more students into medical school. (without changing graduation standards) Keeping the doctor supply artificially low is stupid.

More tax breaks for the charitable. Corporations, unions and the well off should be able to buy health insurence for the needy and write 100% of the cost off their taxable income. Call it the "good neighbor bill".

Total cost calculation... zero, zip and nada.

You are welcome USMB.

 

[hboats]

hboats: Thanks for providing this link. I suspect that the other one isn't much different. So I won't spend more time addressing it.

You're welcome MarcATL. Actually the link that you looked at was just the summary, the second link is the whole bill in detail. I know I probably wouldn't take the time to read the whole thing either, but if you have questions or want more clarification on what was in the summary that would be the place to look.

Rick

 

[MarcATL]

"The ones who are in need."

Care to expound on that one there Liability?

Cause I don't get it.

Those who... to not fault of their own... cannot afford insurance. Something like 80% of people in the US are perfectly happy with their health insurance and healthcare provided to them. Don't change anything for them. Let them keep what they have.

Only cover those that need it.

Waitaminute....so you're actually claiming that 80% of the total American population are insured? Not even happy with it, but are insured?

Provide some hard facts please.

Thanks.

 

[MarcATL]

Those who... to not fault of their own... cannot afford insurance. Something like 80% of people in the US are perfectly happy with their health insurance and healthcare provided to them. Don't change anything for them. Let them keep what they have.

Only cover those that need it.

Stup





BULLSHIT!!!!! I have coverage through my wifes employer and our premiums have gone up 50% over two years and DEDUCTABLES have increased while coverage limits have DECREASED so NO I am NOT "happy" with my coverage and i doubt that those who are facing a 39% increase are "happy" with their coverage either.


I think when you start seeing people DYING in the streets and DISEASE spreading unchecked you will see the value of UNIVERSAL health care.

Poll Finds Large Majority Of Americans Happy with Their Health Insurance - The Gaggle Blog - Newsweek.com

"According to Gallup's data, 87% of people with private insurance and 82% of people on Medicare or Medicaid say that the quality of their health care is excellent or good. Similarly, 75% of those with private plans and 74% on government-run plans rate their insurance plan as excellent or good."



Stupid Shit. Now sit down and suck on your pacifier.

So really, you're just referring to 80something percent of the INSURED American populace.

Not no BS that 80% of the American Populace is happily insured.

BIG difference, yet the RWers and pundits conflate the two and spread that as gospel.

Real shifty.

 

[Liability]

"The ones who are in need."

Care to expound on that one there Liability?

Cause I don't get it.

It's really amazingly simple. What's not to get?

Do YOU need a massive overhaul of every part of the way America delivers health services? I sure as hell don't.

A recent poll suggested that the significant MAJORITY of Americans are satisfied (minimally) with their health care. If the vast majority don't consider it to be fuckin' broken, then THEY don't need to have "it" allegedly "fixed."

For those who don't have adequate, real, viable or any health care coverage, the story is different. They may be the ones in actual need. I am not and I don't want to attend to the needs of the small minority by fucking my own health care. And I am not close to being alone in that.

 

[DiamondDave]

Starting over is Republican code for doing nothing. They are talking about incrementalism, which is code for doing nothing.

The president should say flat out to the Republicans, come back Monday with a list of the PARTS of the current bill you are willing to support, then we'll go from there, passing them first, 'incrementally'. I'm guessing the GOP response would be a big hummunna hummunna.

Oh, man, I would love to see him do that.

Sadly, I don't think he has the balls or the moxie to do something like that.

And I would laugh my ass off if they replied simply with the title of the bill

 

[Liability]

Hey Liability have you considered how much it costs the US and those who HAVE coverage to treat people in the ER INSTEAD of people having PREVENTATIVE health coverage?

The ability to have folks use an ER as a source of primary care in most cases is a distinct problem. Want to fix THAT problem? Me too. But I think our respective "fixes" would not work out the same for those who USE our system in that inappropriate manner.