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Pure nonsense....You cannot wait until your house is on fire to buy homeowner's insurance.No one denied coverage for pre-exisiting conditions. Period. Should have been implemented a century ago.
Nobody has a right to a risk pool to get others to pay their bills.
I agree.
Something that I don't know if has been pointed out in the overall debate or not is that if you are joining a group plan (i.e. you leave one company with an employee group plan and join another) you already can not be denied coverage based on a pre-existing condition.
Pure nonsense....You cannot wait until your house is on fire to buy homeowner's insurance.No one denied coverage for pre-exisiting conditions. Period. Should have been implemented a century ago.
Nobody has a right to a risk pool to get others to pay their bills.
I agree.
Something that I don't know if has been pointed out in the overall debate or not is that if you are joining a group plan (i.e. you leave one company with an employee group plan and join another) you already can not be denied coverage based on a pre-existing condition.
Pure nonsense....You cannot wait until your house is on fire to buy homeowner's insurance.
Nobody has a right to a risk pool to get others to pay their bills.
I agree.
Something that I don't know if has been pointed out in the overall debate or not is that if you are joining a group plan (i.e. you leave one company with an employee group plan and join another) you already can not be denied coverage based on a pre-existing condition.
Well GEE what happens when your HC is EMPLOYER based and you become TOO ILL TO WORK!!!??? I'll tell you what happens YOU LOSE YOUR COVERAGE!!! Do you GET IT!!!??? Do you UNDERSTAND why ONLY being able to afford EMPLOYER BASED health insurance is the PROBLEM!!!??? And don't you even DARE say COBRA is a solution because it is FAR TOO expensive for an EMPLOYED person let alone a person who is UNEMPLOYED!!!
Firstly, 1 page...really? Its just that simple huh? OK....moving right along:1 of 2 Republican HCR Plans said:Republicans’ Common-Sense Reforms Will LOWER HEALTH CARE COSTS
Americans want a step-by-step, common-sense approach to health care reform, not Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s costly, 1,990-page government takeover of our nation’s health care system. Republicans’ alternative solution focuses on lowering health care premiums for families and small businesses, increasing access to affordable, high-quality care, and promoting healthier lifestyles – without adding to the crushing debt Washington has placed on our children and grandchildren. Following are the key elements of Republicans’ alternative plan:
• Lowering health care premiums. The GOP plan will lower health care premiums for American families and small businesses, addressing Americans’ number-one priority for health care reform.
• Establishing Universal Access Programs to guarantee access to affordable health care for those with pre-existing conditions. The GOP plan creates Universal Access Programs that expand and reform high-risk pools and reinsurance programs to guarantee that all Americans, regardless of pre-existing conditions or past illnesses, have access to affordable care – while lowering costs for all Americans.
• Ending junk lawsuits. The GOP plan would help end costly junk lawsuits and curb defensive medicine by enacting medical liability reforms modeled after the successful state laws of California and Texas.
• Prevents insurers from unjustly cancelling a policy. The GOP plan prohibits an insurer from cancelling a policy unless a person commits fraud or conceals material facts about a health condition.
• Encouraging Small Business Health Plans. The GOP plan gives small businesses the power to pool together and offer health care at lower prices, just as corporations and labor unions do.
• Encouraging innovative state programs. The GOP plan rewards innovation by providing incentive payments to states that reduce premiums and the number of uninsured.
• Allowing Americans to buy insurance across state lines. The GOP plan allows Americans to shop for coverage from coast to coast by allowing Americans living in one state to purchase insurance in another.
• Promoting healthier lifestyles. The GOP plan promotes prevention & wellness by giving employers greater flexibility to financially reward employees who adopt healthier lifestyles.
• Enhancing Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). The GOP plan creates new incentives to save for current and future health care needs by allowing qualified participants to use HSA funds to pay premiums for high deductible health insurance.
• Allowing dependents to remain on their parents’ policies. The GOP plan encourages coverage of young adults on their parents’ insurance through age 25.
Scorecard: Speaker Pelosi’s Government Takeover vs. GOP Common-Sense Solutions
Speaker Pelosi’s Bill
GOP Alternative
Job Losses
Up to 5.5 million
0
Medicare Cuts
$500 billion
0
Tax Increases
$729.5 billion
0
*Updated 11-04-09
Pure nonsense....You cannot wait until your house is on fire to buy homeowner's insurance.
Nobody has a right to a risk pool to get others to pay their bills.
I agree.
Something that I don't know if has been pointed out in the overall debate or not is that if you are joining a group plan (i.e. you leave one company with an employee group plan and join another) you already can not be denied coverage based on a pre-existing condition.
Well GEE what happens when your HC is EMPLOYER based and you become TOO ILL TO WORK!!!??? I'll tell you what happens YOU LOSE YOUR COVERAGE!!! Do you GET IT!!!??? Do you UNDERSTAND why ONLY being able to afford EMPLOYER BASED health insurance is the PROBLEM!!!??? And don't you even DARE say COBRA is a solution because it is FAR TOO expensive for an EMPLOYED person let alone a person who is UNEMPLOYED!!!
Firstly, 1 page...really? Its just that simple huh? OK....moving right along:1 of 2 Republican HCR Plans said:Republicans Common-Sense Reforms Will LOWER HEALTH CARE COSTS
Americans want a step-by-step, common-sense approach to health care reform, not Speaker Nancy Pelosis costly, 1,990-page government takeover of our nations health care system. Republicans alternative solution focuses on lowering health care premiums for families and small businesses, increasing access to affordable, high-quality care, and promoting healthier lifestyles without adding to the crushing debt Washington has placed on our children and grandchildren. Following are the key elements of Republicans alternative plan:
Lowering health care premiums. The GOP plan will lower health care premiums for American families and small businesses, addressing Americans number-one priority for health care reform.
Establishing Universal Access Programs to guarantee access to affordable health care for those with pre-existing conditions. The GOP plan creates Universal Access Programs that expand and reform high-risk pools and reinsurance programs to guarantee that all Americans, regardless of pre-existing conditions or past illnesses, have access to affordable care while lowering costs for all Americans.
Ending junk lawsuits. The GOP plan would help end costly junk lawsuits and curb defensive medicine by enacting medical liability reforms modeled after the successful state laws of California and Texas.
Prevents insurers from unjustly cancelling a policy. The GOP plan prohibits an insurer from cancelling a policy unless a person commits fraud or conceals material facts about a health condition.
Encouraging Small Business Health Plans. The GOP plan gives small businesses the power to pool together and offer health care at lower prices, just as corporations and labor unions do.
Encouraging innovative state programs. The GOP plan rewards innovation by providing incentive payments to states that reduce premiums and the number of uninsured.
Allowing Americans to buy insurance across state lines. The GOP plan allows Americans to shop for coverage from coast to coast by allowing Americans living in one state to purchase insurance in another.
Promoting healthier lifestyles. The GOP plan promotes prevention & wellness by giving employers greater flexibility to financially reward employees who adopt healthier lifestyles.
Enhancing Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). The GOP plan creates new incentives to save for current and future health care needs by allowing qualified participants to use HSA funds to pay premiums for high deductible health insurance.
Allowing dependents to remain on their parents policies. The GOP plan encourages coverage of young adults on their parents insurance through age 25.
Scorecard: Speaker Pelosis Government Takeover vs. GOP Common-Sense Solutions
Speaker Pelosis Bill
GOP Alternative
Job Losses
Up to 5.5 million
0
Medicare Cuts
$500 billion
0
Tax Increases
$729.5 billion
0
*Updated 11-04-09
Lowering health care premiums.
Sounds good. I'd just like to know how they plan on doing it? And why those details weren't included in this document.
Establishing Universal Access Programs to guarantee access to affordable health care for those with pre-existing conditions.
Sounds too fancy to make any sense. Again, I'd like to know how these "Universal Access Programs" will GUARANTEE access to affordable healthcare, namely HOW will it be funded and/or WHERE these funds will come from. Why aren't these details included in this document?
Ending junk lawsuits.
This really sounds foolish. Sounds like some redneck up "Dem Dar Hills" put in on paper. Define "junk lawsuits." Is it their plan to stop ANY sort of lawsuit against a Dr? Including those who mutilated patients unecessarily? Where are the details? I find "tort reform" to be quite a slippery slope. Patients need to be protected from "Junk Doctors."
Prevents insurers from unjustly cancelling a policy.
No disagreements from me. Just one thing...where are the details?
Encouraging Small Business Health Plans.
Again, this sounds REALLY good on paper. Everybody loves the small businessman. Aren't they currently allowed to pool together for insurance purposes? That's not a bad idea actually, but it won't magically solve everything. I predict that many small businesses won't be able to join all the pools. Again...the details are missing.
Encouraging innovative state programs.
So the state must come up with this. Hmmm... sounds fishy. Again, passing the buck. Some states may get to it, 5, 10, 15 years down the line. Meanwhile Americans in those states would be dying. Very fuzzy stuff.
Allowing Americans to buy insurance across state lines.
Well that idea worked so well for Credit Card Industry, they're almost all in North Dakota, the most lacks and most friendly towards them. Also, consider drivers license, where its encouraged to have a state license of the state you're in, as well as driver's insurance. There are reasons for that. This idea is really just the inverse of the one above.
Promoting healthier lifestyles.
Boy this one here makes me scratch my head. This sounds VERY liberal. Its the self-proclaimed conservatives that always tout eating red meat and drinking beer and living lavishly, excessively and essentially unhealthily as the most American thing there is. Seems to me that its the liberals that are always the ones seeking to tax unhealthy foods and promote healthy lifestyles that includes healthy diet and excercize. I don't know. I'm not really buying it, because the facts on the ground just don't bare this out. Back when I was in NYC, it was the libs that promoted and caused the ban on cigs in clubs. The Cons in lockstep all opposed, arguing things like "Business can't handle it, they would lost customers" Guess what...they couldn't be happier since it passed. Business has not gone down, not from the cig law. Same thing when it came to that cooking grease that was prevelent in joints like KFC and many other fast food places. Cons fought it tooth and nail. Once passed...EVERYBODY loves it. Who are you people trying to fool? Clearly yourselves.
Enhancing Health Savings Accounts (HSAs).
Boy, I wonder WHO will qualify? Somehow I don't think it will allow for many, especially the ones most in need. So that one's another bust.
Allowing dependents to remain on their parents policies.
This is a good idea. Especially in this economy where more and more college grads are going from college, right back to their bedrooms at home. No details though.
So all in all, that one bill/plan was more platitudes and talking point. Scarce on details.
The Reps make this big deal about the other bill/s being this monstrosity of pages long, but really...WHO cares how long they are? The law HAS to be specific? Does anybody know how long the Medicare bill was? How about the Social Security one? Do you think a sick patient cares how long that bill is or how good it works for them? Come on RWers...grow up.
hboats: Thanks for providing this link. I suspect that the other one isn't much different. So I won't spend more time addressing it.
I agree.
Something that I don't know if has been pointed out in the overall debate or not is that if you are joining a group plan (i.e. you leave one company with an employee group plan and join another) you already can not be denied coverage based on a pre-existing condition.
Well GEE what happens when your HC is EMPLOYER based and you become TOO ILL TO WORK!!!??? I'll tell you what happens YOU LOSE YOUR COVERAGE!!! Do you GET IT!!!??? Do you UNDERSTAND why ONLY being able to afford EMPLOYER BASED health insurance is the PROBLEM!!!??? And don't you even DARE say COBRA is a solution because it is FAR TOO expensive for an EMPLOYED person let alone a person who is UNEMPLOYED!!!
Yes, more indications of a broken system, things that should be fixed first, instead of providing more opportunities for abuse.
I experienced this too, I was working for a self-insured company, and when diagnosed with a terminal condition, i was terminated for insurance reasons. they told me right up front that was why they terminated me.
It worked out ok for me as i started getting better, alternative care in Mexico.
cheaper too
I agree.
Something that I don't know if has been pointed out in the overall debate or not is that if you are joining a group plan (i.e. you leave one company with an employee group plan and join another) you already can not be denied coverage based on a pre-existing condition.
Well GEE what happens when your HC is EMPLOYER based and you become TOO ILL TO WORK!!!??? I'll tell you what happens YOU LOSE YOUR COVERAGE!!! Do you GET IT!!!??? Do you UNDERSTAND why ONLY being able to afford EMPLOYER BASED health insurance is the PROBLEM!!!??? And don't you even DARE say COBRA is a solution because it is FAR TOO expensive for an EMPLOYED person let alone a person who is UNEMPLOYED!!!
COBRA.
There I said it.
Well GEE what happens when your HC is EMPLOYER based and you become TOO ILL TO WORK!!!??? I'll tell you what happens YOU LOSE YOUR COVERAGE!!! Do you GET IT!!!??? Do you UNDERSTAND why ONLY being able to afford EMPLOYER BASED health insurance is the PROBLEM!!!??? And don't you even DARE say COBRA is a solution because it is FAR TOO expensive for an EMPLOYED person let alone a person who is UNEMPLOYED!!!
Yes, more indications of a broken system, things that should be fixed first, instead of providing more opportunities for abuse.
I experienced this too, I was working for a self-insured company, and when diagnosed with a terminal condition, i was terminated for insurance reasons. they told me right up front that was why they terminated me.
It worked out ok for me as i started getting better, alternative care in Mexico.
cheaper too
Wow your former employer really opened themselves to some SERIOUS liability by admiting that's why they let you go. Here in Idaho they don't have to give you ANY REASON WHAT-SO-EVER!! "Right to Work" don't ya know.
The Obama already has passed a law making COBRA more affordable.
You might want to look into the ADA as well.
Until then, learn something.
Yes, more indications of a broken system, things that should be fixed first, instead of providing more opportunities for abuse.
I experienced this too, I was working for a self-insured company, and when diagnosed with a terminal condition, i was terminated for insurance reasons. they told me right up front that was why they terminated me.
It worked out ok for me as i started getting better, alternative care in Mexico.
cheaper too
Wow your former employer really opened themselves to some SERIOUS liability by admiting that's why they let you go. Here in Idaho they don't have to give you ANY REASON WHAT-SO-EVER!! "Right to Work" don't ya know.
same here in arizona. I was working for them in ca and they transferred me to az. I wanted to come home, so i took the transfer. 3 months later......well you know the rest.
and just to see you go off, I will say it too...........cobra!
Pure nonsense....You cannot wait until your house is on fire to buy homeowner's insurance.No one denied coverage for pre-exisiting conditions. Period. Should have been implemented a century ago.
Nobody has a right to a risk pool to get others to pay their bills.
Then what?
What do you do to actually IMPROVE the current system?
And how soon do you plan or expect to do so?
Wow your former employer really opened themselves to some SERIOUS liability by admiting that's why they let you go. Here in Idaho they don't have to give you ANY REASON WHAT-SO-EVER!! "Right to Work" don't ya know.
same here in arizona. I was working for them in ca and they transferred me to az. I wanted to come home, so i took the transfer. 3 months later......well you know the rest.
and just to see you go off, I will say it too...........cobra!
Glad to hear you are doing better.
Like what?Then what?
What do you do to actually IMPROVE the current system?
And how soon do you plan or expect to do so?
What 'system?'
Health care as provided in this country is not a "system."
And it shouldn't be.
And doing absolutely NOTHING is vastly preferable to the liberal Democrat proposal to create such a "system."
If the delivery of health care in this country does leave too many people inadequately covered, then I am perfectly game to consider RATIONAL alternatives to the mess that Reid, Pelousy and the President somehow cobbled together -- in order to address those who lack reasonable health care coverage.
That is a much smaller set of folks in large group known as the American People than the liberal Democrats seek to "cover."
You don't fix something (especially something that isn't even broken) by smashing it to pieces and then creating a massive bureaucracy that will not and cannot accomplish at least as much as was being done BEFORE the fiddling began.
The Obama already has passed a law making COBRA more affordable.
You might want to look into the ADA as well.
Until then, learn something.
Do you have ANY idea what COBRA costs?
Then what?
What do you do to actually IMPROVE the current system?
And how soon do you plan or expect to do so?
What 'system?'
Health care as provided in this country is not a "system."
And it shouldn't be.
And doing absolutely NOTHING is vastly preferable to the liberal Democrat proposal to create such a "system."
If the delivery of health care in this country does leave too many people inadequately covered, then I am perfectly game to consider RATIONAL alternatives to the mess that Reid, Pelousy and the President somehow cobbled together -- in order to address those who lack reasonable health care coverage.
That is a much smaller set of folks in large group known as the American People than the liberal Democrats seek to "cover."
You don't fix something (especially something that isn't even broken) by smashing it to pieces and then creating a massive bureaucracy that will not and cannot accomplish at least as much as was being done BEFORE the fiddling began.
