Mother Mary is here to stay

[zaangalewa]

... That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil.

He decided to deny god (or to deny the loving truth, what's the same in case of pagans) - and he exists. So he thinks god exists not for him. And he replaced god with social darwinism so "to win" is his proud wisdom and "to lose" his hell. The result: He wins himselve to death with empty phrases.

By the way. I call often Islamists or terrorists "godless people". "Godless" means not automatically "atheist". It's really difficult to find the right words in this context. Some people ignore the most important rules god gave us - and sometimes it looks like they hate all and every life, which we should love.

Nevertheless you are right. Evil is the absence of god - but the people have the right to leave god; he forces no one to be in his near. And perhaps there's somewhere a point of no return. But what do we know about such people? I fear who oversteps this point of no return is not existing any longer - was never existing - and never will be again. I don't know whether this is true or not - but in this case never a hell would exist - (except hell is the ¿not existing? place of this lost souls). Hell would be normally always only a purgatory - a cleaning fire which will end when we are "clean".

 

[SweetSue92]

The "mushroom galvanized mystic"
James the brother of Jesus a "shadowy character". Honey it was 2000 years ago+, they're all shadowy from this far away.
Matthew--why is his relationship "considered" legend? By who? Bart Ehrman? lol

you got something against bart? There are lots of very, clearly NON SHADOWY characters of 2000 years ago. All kinds of things are known about your fave character PONTIUS PILATE and his and rome's friend
Caiphas. Even Josephus Flavius has a known history. Matthew ? ----
the "tax collector"? for whom or what was he collecting taxes? Seems like
a free-agent to me who was persona non-grata wherever he went

Shake a stick at the average Internet Anti-Christian Warrior, hit a Bart Ehrman acolyte. My goodness it's so predictable and BORING

"anti-Christian warrior" ??? Bart Ehrman acolyte?? sheeeeesh----
you is paranoid. Bart is a scholar of the bible as reliable as any other

Bart Ehrman made a career out of copyist errors and other ridiculous nonsense.

not really-----he made a career----you just do not like him. I neither like nor dislike him

Bart found a few copyist errors and could not hold on to his faith. Honest to Pete.

 

[keepitreal]

973 By pronouncing her "fiat" at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body.

974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son's Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.

975 "We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ" (Paul VI, CPG § 15

The devil is a liar!

 

[SweetSue92]

Hello.

I am not a Roman Catholic nor Muslim and respect Catholics and Muslims as people, but I have such a hard time with the teachings.... I simply disagree with Catholic's and Muslim's teachings about Mary because the Bible does not support the “ Catholislamic “ teachings involving Mary.

I believe that it is important to realize, that at his death BEFORE Jesus The Anointed died, He said, " WOMAN look at your Son. " Here - - Mary’s younger son, thereafter - took MARY, His mother, alone, away in private - ALONE.

The Greek word is a word meaning SEPARATE, ALONE private.... this word private is the same Greek word used in the verse that says that " no scripture is of any private interpretation "

You will notice that When Jesus mentions Mary's LITERAL Son - in John 19:26- _ The Roman Catholic and Islamics do not take Jesus words as a literal meaning.

The Greek word “ THY " son “ is the word G4675 - σου? - sou / soo = Meaning Of thee, thy: - thine (own), thou, thy. ... This Greek word is used nearly 500 times in the New Testament and it always means Your Own or thy own.

I have noticed that Roman Catholic and Islamics honor Mary because of the great things they imagine about her, considering and demanding that because she was sinless, perfect, holy and pure and SPECIAL - “ Full of grace “ She was the chosen one . But The Prophecy and plan of God was to bring Jesus through the Line Of the sinful, repentant sinner " King David " . It did not specify an importance regarding if the virgin was perfect or sinless or the most holiest and pure-minded woman who ever existed. Or a woman who was living a life with the purpose of being a virgin As the Quran declares here in - Quran 66:12 “And (God sets forth the example for those who Believe) of Mary, the daughter of Heli, who guarded her chastity, so We blew into it through Our Angel (i.e., Gabriel), and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures and was of the devoutly obedient.” (Quran 66:12)

But The Bible does not lay importance on anything regarding that Mary had planned or plotted out her virginity or guarded her chastity. NEVER.
The Bible does not say that Mary had lived a long lifetime or a short life and lived with an important goal and made the personal decision of abstaining and refusing sexual relations or marriage.

We don't even know how old Mary was. - - Mat_1:23 and Luk_1:27 simply say that she was a virgin. - That's it....

The Biblically designed point was to be a descendant of King David, not to be born from a sinless, perfect nun-like, single and never to be planning to be, a sexually active woman. But Mary was planning, plotting wanting sex and Joseph was planning marriage and sex too. And Joseph was instructed to not be afraid to get married and have sex because the child conceived in His new { to be } wife was from the Holy Spirit . And Joseph did not know Mary sexually UNTIL after they were married and Mary had borne Her firstborn son.

Joseph and Mary were plotting, planning and preparing to get married and Joseph was fearful / afraid to take Mary as a wife because she was already pregnant.
Joseph and Mary were not planning to abstain from sex . The Angel knew that they had a marriage plan and told Joseph directly - to not continue to be fearful -- and afraid, about the pregnancy. Obviously, they were worried about their sexual relationship and marriage and sexual future because Mary's sexuality and pregnancy was a very important matter in the relationship because Joseph thought she was already pregnant with someone else’s baby and had lied about the sexual activity. He was afraid, and upset and He was planning on putting her away and terminating the marriage. Because the factual plan in The Bible, was for Mary to be His normal wife sexually.
Have the Roman Catholic and Islamic Mosque - simply added these false things and untruths directly upon the Biblical narrative and have they completely changed the message of God’s word. ? ?

We see Mary's genealogy in Luke 3:24..

REMEMBER - The Original Luke 3:24 simply begins to just simply list and lay out a simple list of names - one right after another after another and so on. The genealogy is ending in verse 23 by simply only naming the name Heli. Then ending verse 23 to 24 - It looks exactly as the following … … . Heli, Matthat, Levi, Melchi, Janna, Joseph, Mattathias, Amos, Naum, Esli, Nagge, Maath, Mattathias, Semei, Joseph, Juda, Joanna, Rhesa, Zorobabel, Salathiel, Neri, Melchi, Addi, Cosam, Elmodam, Er, Jose, Eliezer, Jorim, Matthat, Levi, Simeon, Juda, Joseph, Jonan, Eliakim, Melea, Menan, Mattatha, Nathan, David, Jesse, Obed, Booz, Salmon, Naasson, Aminadab, Aram, Esrom, Phares, Juda, Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Thara, Nachor, Saruch, Ragau, Phalec, Heber, Sala, Cainan, ArphaX ad, Sem, Noe, Lamech, Mathusala, Enoch, Jared, Maleleel, Cainan, Enos, Seth, Adam, God ._
_
This was why Mary was chosen - The bible makes is clear that it was very crucial for the virgin to be from the seed of David. Her personal planning, plotting and goals of being a virgin or living a lifetime of chastity and staying / remaining a virgin has nothing to do with anything. And we know that She had never planned to be a virgin, She was getting married and Her husband was terminating the wedding because He could no longer have sex with her because she was cheating on Him.
The angel knew that Mary was very afraid, worried and fearful - in Luke 1:30 - the angel told Mary to not be afraid and worried.

Roman Catholic and Muslims honor Mary because of the great things they imagine about her, considering and demanding that because she was sinless, perfect, holy and pure and SPECIAL - “ Full of grace “ She was the chosen one . But The Prophecy and plan of God was to bring Jesus through the Line Of King David. It did not matter who the virgin was, out of the thousands of virgins throughout the land . ... The point was to be a descendant of King David, not to be born from a sinless, perfect woman who had lived a lifetime of virginity and or who plotted, planned and dedicated her life to being a virgin... I never hear Catholic and Islamic doctrine focusing on the Biblical teaching, it is all - only centered around the twisting of the original manuscripts. And Mary is portrayed as a young woman who was planning a marriage, not some older woman who had lived her life as a concentrated woman of God having abstained from sexual activity. As a young woman looking for a husband to marry and have a marriage and sexual relations with a husband .

This was Mary's plan in her mind, her goals and interests and desires was to get married and have sexual relations with a man - NOT to be virgin ! or a nun, like. woman and never have sex or commit a sex act in her life. She was hunting, pursuing, seeking and pursuing, following sexual plan for a relationship with a male. In the eyes of the Roman Catholic and Islamic fantasy of the Mary of Catholic and Islamicism,

How is this a holy woman who was sinless, pure and special; or any different from any other woman who was seeking a marriage, sex and a husband ? ?
I read Gods word and I just can’t see how that the Mary of Catholic and Islam exists. And if Muslims are not interested in the Seed Of king David and Roman Catholics are also not interested - it seems that they make changes of the importance and point of everything in the Bible and modify it to their own personal interests. what do You think ?

Please help me to understand ? IF I am wrong, I ask You to please show me in God’s word.

So the Church does not rely solely on Scripture. It relies upon Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium which are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others.

Here is what the Church teaches about Mary.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church

PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER THREE
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARTICLE 9
"I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"

Paragraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church

963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503

I. MARY'S MOTHERHOOD WITH REGARD TO THE CHURCH

Wholly united with her Son . . .

964 Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death";504 it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:



Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: "Woman, behold your son."505
965 After her Son's Ascension, Mary "aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers."506 In her association with the apostles and several women, "we also see Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation."507

. . . also in her Assumption

966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:



In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.509
. . . she is our Mother in the order of grace

967 By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity. Thus she is a "preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus)510 of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512

970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

* II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN

971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517

III. MARY - ESCHATOLOGICAL ICON OF THE CHURCH

972 After speaking of the Church, her origin, mission, and destiny, we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary. In her we contemplate what the Church already is in her mystery on her own "pilgrimage of faith," and what she will be in the homeland at the end of her journey. There, "in the glory of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity," "in the communion of all the saints,"518 the Church is awaited by the one she venerates as Mother of her Lord and as her own mother.



In the meantime the Mother of Jesus, in the glory which she possesses in body and soul in heaven, is the image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise she shines forth on earth until the day of the Lord shall come, a sign of certain hope and comfort to the pilgrim People of God.519
IN BRIEF

973 By pronouncing her "fiat" at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body.

974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son's Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.

975 "We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ" (Paul VI, CPG § 15).

I'm sorry I missed this.

It is frankly heresy. "Tradition" and "Magisterium" or whatever aside--heresy. Mary died a natural bodily death just like the rest of us.

Heresy.

 

[keepitreal]

"anti-Christian warrior" ??? Bart Ehrman acolyte?? sheeeeesh----
you is paranoid. Bart is a scholar of the bible as reliable as any other

Bart Denton Ehrmann? ... He said he lost the belief in god because of the theodicy problem - but the theodicy problem of Leibnitz is known from Christians since a very long time of history. Lacantius (~250 - 320) was one of the first Christians who spoke about it. His argument is known under "Epicurus said", but indeed it was Lacantius who said so. Epicurus was not able to work with the idea of only one universal god and expressions like omnipotent, ominbenevolent or omniscient.

I fear the problem of this man was he learned that the bible is god when he was an Evangelical Christian - but later he found out that the bible is not god. That's why he is an atheist now.

The shortest form of the basic problem is: "Why exists evil?" - but nearly no one loses his belief in god because of the existance of the evil. Normally we could say if someone is losing the belief in god, because of the evil world: Satan will laugh! I believe for example in god although I lost family members in concentration camps of the Nazis. I udnrtadn everxyonew whi loses his belief in god who is in a similiar situation and I respect this. But o theoerh side,. Is not exacfyrl thsi what the Nazois treid to do? To murder god together with his his people and to burn him down together with his people in Auschwitz, in the alley of the birchs, while no bird was ablento sing there?

God made evil.

Evil is not extant so that is just one more thing you are wrong about.

So your "creator" didn't make everything in the universe? Then how did evil come about?

That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil.

That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil

Evil does not exist?!

The devil is a liar!

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying
"Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;
" but of the tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL,
you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it
you shall surely die."

Genesis 2:16-17

 

[zaangalewa]

973 By pronouncing her "fiat" at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body.

974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son's Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.

975 "We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ" (Paul VI, CPG § 15

The devil is a liar!

And what exactly is the lie? (Besides that "to deny god" or "to deny the truth" is not the same as "to lie". When for example someone flees from Nazis and you saw him running direction West and Nazis will ask you in which direction he did run, then it's good to be a perfect liar in the moment when you have to say "He ran direction East" - otherwise you will become very soon a martyr.)

 

[zaangalewa]

Bart Denton Ehrmann? ... He said he lost the belief in god because of the theodicy problem - but the theodicy problem of Leibnitz is known from Christians since a very long time of history. Lacantius (~250 - 320) was one of the first Christians who spoke about it. His argument is known under "Epicurus said", but indeed it was Lacantius who said so. Epicurus was not able to work with the idea of only one universal god and expressions like omnipotent, ominbenevolent or omniscient.

I fear the problem of this man was he learned that the bible is god when he was an Evangelical Christian - but later he found out that the bible is not god. That's why he is an atheist now.

The shortest form of the basic problem is: "Why exists evil?" - but nearly no one loses his belief in god because of the existance of the evil. Normally we could say if someone is losing the belief in god, because of the evil world: Satan will laugh! I believe for example in god although I lost family members in concentration camps of the Nazis. I udnrtadn everxyonew whi loses his belief in god who is in a similiar situation and I respect this. But o theoerh side,. Is not exacfyrl thsi what the Nazois treid to do? To murder god together with his his people and to burn him down together with his people in Auschwitz, in the alley of the birchs, while no bird was ablento sing there?

God made evil.

Evil is not extant so that is just one more thing you are wrong about.

So your "creator" didn't make everything in the universe? Then how did evil come about?

That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil.

That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil

Evil does not exist?!

The devil is a liar!

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying
"Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;
" but of the tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL,
you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it
you shall surely die."

Genesis 2:16-17

Dear friend - I fear you do not think very much about what such a story means in the reality for us all. It's exactly our problem to know good and evil, that's why we had to leave the paradise and this world here all around us doesn't care about good and evil - if we don't care. And if we do not start to learn much more, then we will think always only good is what's good for us personally and evil is what's not good for us personally. Sometimes it would be much more better to see that nothing is evil. All this good and evil nonsense is a burden for us - and on the other side we are not able to take away this burden, because our world would end in horror, murder and death otherwise. But we are a might of the love of god. That's why we have to communicate with everyone to find out what's the best of all possible ways for us all together between good and evil. Otherwise we all will drive mad.

 

[irosie91]

you got something against bart? There are lots of very, clearly NON SHADOWY characters of 2000 years ago. All kinds of things are known about your fave character PONTIUS PILATE and his and rome's friend
Caiphas. Even Josephus Flavius has a known history. Matthew ? ----
the "tax collector"? for whom or what was he collecting taxes? Seems like
a free-agent to me who was persona non-grata wherever he went

Shake a stick at the average Internet Anti-Christian Warrior, hit a Bart Ehrman acolyte. My goodness it's so predictable and BORING

"anti-Christian warrior" ??? Bart Ehrman acolyte?? sheeeeesh----
you is paranoid. Bart is a scholar of the bible as reliable as any other

Bart Ehrman made a career out of copyist errors and other ridiculous nonsense.

not really-----he made a career----you just do not like him. I neither like nor dislike him

Bart found a few copyist errors and could not hold on to his faith. Honest to Pete.

is that why YOU are avoiding the very simple issues I cited? and CANNOT
come up with anything but a snide remark. I cannot say that I actually read his stuff------just glanced at it. ------if you have a REAL issue why not
cite it. He seems to do a good job with definition of words which is what
actually interested me. I have so far never encountered a self proclaimed
Christian scholar of the NT who had ANY IDEA about a reasonable putative
vocabulary of Jesus or his followers

 

[zaangalewa]

... Mary died a natural bodily death just like the rest of us.

Heresy.

And what exactly is the name of your church?

 

[SweetSue92]

Shake a stick at the average Internet Anti-Christian Warrior, hit a Bart Ehrman acolyte. My goodness it's so predictable and BORING

"anti-Christian warrior" ??? Bart Ehrman acolyte?? sheeeeesh----
you is paranoid. Bart is a scholar of the bible as reliable as any other

Bart Ehrman made a career out of copyist errors and other ridiculous nonsense.

not really-----he made a career----you just do not like him. I neither like nor dislike him

Bart found a few copyist errors and could not hold on to his faith. Honest to Pete.

is that why YOU are avoiding the very simple issues I cited? and CANNOT
come up with anything but a snide remark. I cannot say that I actually read his stuff------just glanced at it. ------if you have a REAL issue why not
cite it. He seems to do a good job with definition of words which is what
actually interested me. I have so far never encountered a self proclaimed
Christian scholar of the NT who had ANY IDEA about a reasonable putative
vocabulary of Jesus or his followers

I asked you for particulars and you have apparently nothing, or did I miss your responses? On why James the brother of Jesus is non-credible? Why Matthew is foggy or whatever? I mean you realize a tax collector would not be as notable as a Roman prefect right? Hello?

And yes, this is exactly what happened to Bart Ehrman. First he bought lock stock and barrel into infallibility as a seminarian SO HARD that a few copyist errors blew a complete hole through the middle of his faith. This is not a stable scholar here. Most of his scholarship of "Refutation" is built on copy errors. That is his case that the Bible is full of error.

I personally have seen this time and again in people who go from

FAITH......................................................................................................................................................LOST MY FAITH

They seem somewhat unstable, either logically, emotionally, intellectually, or something. They're very extreme.

 

[SweetSue92]

... Mary died a natural bodily death just like the rest of us.

Heresy.

And what exactly is the name of your church?

I'm Protestant and of a denomination that is very Scriptural. Do not give personal details on the internet, no way.

 

[zaangalewa]

... Mary died a natural bodily death just like the rest of us.

Heresy.

And what exactly is the name of your church?

I'm Protestant

My wife is a Protestant too and she never had any problem with the mother of god.

and of a denomination that is very Scriptural.

No idea what this means.

Do not give personal details on the internet, no way.

What means "scriptural" for you? He said: "What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops."

 

[keepitreal]

973 By pronouncing her "fiat" at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body.

974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son's Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.

975 "We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ" (Paul VI, CPG § 15

The devil is a liar!

And what exactly is the lie? (Besides that "to deny god" or "to deny the truth" is not the same as "to lie". When for example someone flees from Nazis and you saw him running direction West and Nazis will ask you in which direction he did run, then it's good to be a perfect liar in the moment when you have to say "He ran direction East" - otherwise you will become very soon a martyr.)

And what exactly is the lie? (Besides that "to deny god" or "to deny the truth" is not the same as "to lie".

The devil is a liar!

Let God be True but, every man a liar!

Mary has not ascended into heaven
No one will enter heaven with their flesh body
Mary is not the mother of God
Mary was a virgin...she didn't die a virgin
The 3 wise men didn't bow down and worship her,
let alone, bring her any gifts
Mary is not the new Eve, let alone, mother of the church
let alone, carrying on in a maternal role, in heaven...
ON BEHALF OF MEMBERS OF CHRIST!

Only Jesus can go to God on our behalf

Thinking your His and being His,
are two different things.

 

[ding]

973 By pronouncing her "fiat" at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body.

974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son's Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.

975 "We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ" (Paul VI, CPG § 15

The devil is a liar!

Yes, those are our beliefs. The same beliefs the early Christians held.

I don’t see how that proves your point.

Yes, Satan is a liar. I don’t see how that proves your point either.

 

[keepitreal]

God made evil.

Evil is not extant so that is just one more thing you are wrong about.

So your "creator" didn't make everything in the universe? Then how did evil come about?

That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil.

That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil

Evil does not exist?!

The devil is a liar!

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying
"Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;
" but of the tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL,
you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it
you shall surely die."

Genesis 2:16-17

Dear friend - I fear you do not think very much about what such a story means in the reality for us all. It's exactly our problem to know good and evil, that's why we had to leave the paradise and this world here all around us doesn't care about good and evil - if we don't care. And if we do not start to learn much more, then we will think always only good is what's good for us personally and evil is what's not good for us personally. Sometimes it would be much more better to see that nothing is evil. All this good and evil nonsense is a burden for us - and on the other side we are not able to take away this burden, because our world would end in horror, murder and death otherwise. But we are a might of the love of god. That's why we have to communicate with everyone to find out what's the best of all possible ways for us all together between good and evil. Otherwise we all will drive mad.

I WATCHED A MAN SMASH A PIGEON TO DEATH
WITH A METAL SIGN HE PULLED OUT OF THE GROUND
AND TOSS IT 5 STEPS FROM ME....

HE WAS WEARING A SHIRT THAT SAID....
GODS PLAN

I REBUKED SATAN, WAS SCREAMING, CRYING,
SWEARING, DEMANDING HE REMOVE HIS SHIRT,
THAT WAS NOT PART OF GODS PLAN,
HE IS A CHILD OF SATAN...EVIL

EVIL EXISTS...DEMONS EXIST

IF THAT WERE TRUE, IF EVIL DIDN'T EXIST
THAT MAKES GOD A LIAR...HE IS NOT, YOU ARE

AND, YOUR FATHER, WHO IS THE FATHER OF LIES

 

[ding]

Evil is not extant so that is just one more thing you are wrong about.

So your "creator" didn't make everything in the universe? Then how did evil come about?

That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil.

That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil

Evil does not exist?!

The devil is a liar!

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying
"Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;
" but of the tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL,
you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it
you shall surely die."

Genesis 2:16-17

Dear friend - I fear you do not think very much about what such a story means in the reality for us all. It's exactly our problem to know good and evil, that's why we had to leave the paradise and this world here all around us doesn't care about good and evil - if we don't care. And if we do not start to learn much more, then we will think always only good is what's good for us personally and evil is what's not good for us personally. Sometimes it would be much more better to see that nothing is evil. All this good and evil nonsense is a burden for us - and on the other side we are not able to take away this burden, because our world would end in horror, murder and death otherwise. But we are a might of the love of god. That's why we have to communicate with everyone to find out what's the best of all possible ways for us all together between good and evil. Otherwise we all will drive mad.

I WATCHED A MAN SMASH A PIGEON TO DEATH
WITH A METAL SIGN HE PULLED OUT OF THE GROUND
AND TOSS IT 5 STEPS FROM ME....

HE WAS WEARING A SHIRT THAT SAID....
GODS PLAN

I REBUKED SATAN, WAS SCREAMING, CRYING,
SWEARING, DEMANDING HE REMOVE HIS SHIRT,
THAT WAS NOT PART OF GODS PLAN,
HE IS A CHILD OF SATAN...EVIL

EVIL EXISTS...DEMONS EXIST

IF THAT WERE TRUE, IF EVIL DIDN'T EXIST
THAT MAKES GOD A LIAR...HE IS NOT, YOU ARE

AND, YOUR FATHER, WHO IS THE FATHER OF LIES

After every step in creation God would say and it was good. Everything God created is good. Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good.

 

[ding]

Hello.

I am not a Roman Catholic nor Muslim and respect Catholics and Muslims as people, but I have such a hard time with the teachings.... I simply disagree with Catholic's and Muslim's teachings about Mary because the Bible does not support the “ Catholislamic “ teachings involving Mary.

I believe that it is important to realize, that at his death BEFORE Jesus The Anointed died, He said, " WOMAN look at your Son. " Here - - Mary’s younger son, thereafter - took MARY, His mother, alone, away in private - ALONE.

The Greek word is a word meaning SEPARATE, ALONE private.... this word private is the same Greek word used in the verse that says that " no scripture is of any private interpretation "

You will notice that When Jesus mentions Mary's LITERAL Son - in John 19:26- _ The Roman Catholic and Islamics do not take Jesus words as a literal meaning.

The Greek word “ THY " son “ is the word G4675 - σου? - sou / soo = Meaning Of thee, thy: - thine (own), thou, thy. ... This Greek word is used nearly 500 times in the New Testament and it always means Your Own or thy own.

I have noticed that Roman Catholic and Islamics honor Mary because of the great things they imagine about her, considering and demanding that because she was sinless, perfect, holy and pure and SPECIAL - “ Full of grace “ She was the chosen one . But The Prophecy and plan of God was to bring Jesus through the Line Of the sinful, repentant sinner " King David " . It did not specify an importance regarding if the virgin was perfect or sinless or the most holiest and pure-minded woman who ever existed. Or a woman who was living a life with the purpose of being a virgin As the Quran declares here in - Quran 66:12 “And (God sets forth the example for those who Believe) of Mary, the daughter of Heli, who guarded her chastity, so We blew into it through Our Angel (i.e., Gabriel), and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures and was of the devoutly obedient.” (Quran 66:12)

But The Bible does not lay importance on anything regarding that Mary had planned or plotted out her virginity or guarded her chastity. NEVER.
The Bible does not say that Mary had lived a long lifetime or a short life and lived with an important goal and made the personal decision of abstaining and refusing sexual relations or marriage.

We don't even know how old Mary was. - - Mat_1:23 and Luk_1:27 simply say that she was a virgin. - That's it....

The Biblically designed point was to be a descendant of King David, not to be born from a sinless, perfect nun-like, single and never to be planning to be, a sexually active woman. But Mary was planning, plotting wanting sex and Joseph was planning marriage and sex too. And Joseph was instructed to not be afraid to get married and have sex because the child conceived in His new { to be } wife was from the Holy Spirit . And Joseph did not know Mary sexually UNTIL after they were married and Mary had borne Her firstborn son.

Joseph and Mary were plotting, planning and preparing to get married and Joseph was fearful / afraid to take Mary as a wife because she was already pregnant.
Joseph and Mary were not planning to abstain from sex . The Angel knew that they had a marriage plan and told Joseph directly - to not continue to be fearful -- and afraid, about the pregnancy. Obviously, they were worried about their sexual relationship and marriage and sexual future because Mary's sexuality and pregnancy was a very important matter in the relationship because Joseph thought she was already pregnant with someone else’s baby and had lied about the sexual activity. He was afraid, and upset and He was planning on putting her away and terminating the marriage. Because the factual plan in The Bible, was for Mary to be His normal wife sexually.
Have the Roman Catholic and Islamic Mosque - simply added these false things and untruths directly upon the Biblical narrative and have they completely changed the message of God’s word. ? ?

We see Mary's genealogy in Luke 3:24..

REMEMBER - The Original Luke 3:24 simply begins to just simply list and lay out a simple list of names - one right after another after another and so on. The genealogy is ending in verse 23 by simply only naming the name Heli. Then ending verse 23 to 24 - It looks exactly as the following … … . Heli, Matthat, Levi, Melchi, Janna, Joseph, Mattathias, Amos, Naum, Esli, Nagge, Maath, Mattathias, Semei, Joseph, Juda, Joanna, Rhesa, Zorobabel, Salathiel, Neri, Melchi, Addi, Cosam, Elmodam, Er, Jose, Eliezer, Jorim, Matthat, Levi, Simeon, Juda, Joseph, Jonan, Eliakim, Melea, Menan, Mattatha, Nathan, David, Jesse, Obed, Booz, Salmon, Naasson, Aminadab, Aram, Esrom, Phares, Juda, Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Thara, Nachor, Saruch, Ragau, Phalec, Heber, Sala, Cainan, ArphaX ad, Sem, Noe, Lamech, Mathusala, Enoch, Jared, Maleleel, Cainan, Enos, Seth, Adam, God ._
_
This was why Mary was chosen - The bible makes is clear that it was very crucial for the virgin to be from the seed of David. Her personal planning, plotting and goals of being a virgin or living a lifetime of chastity and staying / remaining a virgin has nothing to do with anything. And we know that She had never planned to be a virgin, She was getting married and Her husband was terminating the wedding because He could no longer have sex with her because she was cheating on Him.
The angel knew that Mary was very afraid, worried and fearful - in Luke 1:30 - the angel told Mary to not be afraid and worried.

Roman Catholic and Muslims honor Mary because of the great things they imagine about her, considering and demanding that because she was sinless, perfect, holy and pure and SPECIAL - “ Full of grace “ She was the chosen one . But The Prophecy and plan of God was to bring Jesus through the Line Of King David. It did not matter who the virgin was, out of the thousands of virgins throughout the land . ... The point was to be a descendant of King David, not to be born from a sinless, perfect woman who had lived a lifetime of virginity and or who plotted, planned and dedicated her life to being a virgin... I never hear Catholic and Islamic doctrine focusing on the Biblical teaching, it is all - only centered around the twisting of the original manuscripts. And Mary is portrayed as a young woman who was planning a marriage, not some older woman who had lived her life as a concentrated woman of God having abstained from sexual activity. As a young woman looking for a husband to marry and have a marriage and sexual relations with a husband .

This was Mary's plan in her mind, her goals and interests and desires was to get married and have sexual relations with a man - NOT to be virgin ! or a nun, like. woman and never have sex or commit a sex act in her life. She was hunting, pursuing, seeking and pursuing, following sexual plan for a relationship with a male. In the eyes of the Roman Catholic and Islamic fantasy of the Mary of Catholic and Islamicism,

How is this a holy woman who was sinless, pure and special; or any different from any other woman who was seeking a marriage, sex and a husband ? ?
I read Gods word and I just can’t see how that the Mary of Catholic and Islam exists. And if Muslims are not interested in the Seed Of king David and Roman Catholics are also not interested - it seems that they make changes of the importance and point of everything in the Bible and modify it to their own personal interests. what do You think ?

Please help me to understand ? IF I am wrong, I ask You to please show me in God’s word.

So the Church does not rely solely on Scripture. It relies upon Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium which are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others.

Here is what the Church teaches about Mary.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church

PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER THREE
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARTICLE 9
"I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"

Paragraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church

963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503

I. MARY'S MOTHERHOOD WITH REGARD TO THE CHURCH

Wholly united with her Son . . .

964 Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death";504 it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:



Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: "Woman, behold your son."505
965 After her Son's Ascension, Mary "aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers."506 In her association with the apostles and several women, "we also see Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation."507

. . . also in her Assumption

966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:



In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.509
. . . she is our Mother in the order of grace

967 By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity. Thus she is a "preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus)510 of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512

970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

* II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN

971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517

III. MARY - ESCHATOLOGICAL ICON OF THE CHURCH

972 After speaking of the Church, her origin, mission, and destiny, we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary. In her we contemplate what the Church already is in her mystery on her own "pilgrimage of faith," and what she will be in the homeland at the end of her journey. There, "in the glory of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity," "in the communion of all the saints,"518 the Church is awaited by the one she venerates as Mother of her Lord and as her own mother.



In the meantime the Mother of Jesus, in the glory which she possesses in body and soul in heaven, is the image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise she shines forth on earth until the day of the Lord shall come, a sign of certain hope and comfort to the pilgrim People of God.519
IN BRIEF

973 By pronouncing her "fiat" at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body.

974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son's Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.

975 "We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ" (Paul VI, CPG § 15).

I'm sorry I missed this.

It is frankly heresy. "Tradition" and "Magisterium" or whatever aside--heresy. Mary died a natural bodily death just like the rest of us.

Heresy.

If you believe Jesus is Lord, do you believe our Lord can be contained in an impure vessel?

And if you believe it is not possible for our Lord to be contained in an impure vessel, do you believe it is possible for that vessel to ever become impure after it housed our Lord?

 

[ding]

Bart Denton Ehrmann? ... He said he lost the belief in god because of the theodicy problem - but the theodicy problem of Leibnitz is known from Christians since a very long time of history. Lacantius (~250 - 320) was one of the first Christians who spoke about it. His argument is known under "Epicurus said", but indeed it was Lacantius who said so. Epicurus was not able to work with the idea of only one universal god and expressions like omnipotent, ominbenevolent or omniscient.

I fear the problem of this man was he learned that the bible is god when he was an Evangelical Christian - but later he found out that the bible is not god. That's why he is an atheist now.

The shortest form of the basic problem is: "Why exists evil?" - but nearly no one loses his belief in god because of the existance of the evil. Normally we could say if someone is losing the belief in god, because of the evil world: Satan will laugh! I believe for example in god although I lost family members in concentration camps of the Nazis. I udnrtadn everxyonew whi loses his belief in god who is in a similiar situation and I respect this. But o theoerh side,. Is not exacfyrl thsi what the Nazois treid to do? To murder god together with his his people and to burn him down together with his people in Auschwitz, in the alley of the birchs, while no bird was ablento sing there?

God made evil.

Evil is not extant so that is just one more thing you are wrong about.

So your "creator" didn't make everything in the universe? Then how did evil come about?

That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil.

That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil

Evil does not exist?!

The devil is a liar!

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying
"Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;
" but of the tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL,
you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it
you shall surely die."

Genesis 2:16-17

Evil, like darkness and cold are not extant. They do not exist in and of themselves. They only exist as the absence of something else. Darkness is the absence of light. Cold is the absence of heat. And evil is the absence of good.

 

[Taz]

God made evil.

Evil is not extant so that is just one more thing you are wrong about.

So your "creator" didn't make everything in the universe? Then how did evil come about?

That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil.

God made evil, and made it possible for evil to exist and thrive.

Wrong. Evil is not extant. It only exists as the absence of something else. It’s like darkness and cold. They are not extant either.

God invented cold, darkness and evil. Suck it up, princess.

 

[ding]

Evil is not extant so that is just one more thing you are wrong about.

So your "creator" didn't make everything in the universe? Then how did evil come about?

That wasn’t my argument. My argument is that evil does not exist. Evil is the absence of good. Therefore God did not create evil.

God made evil, and made it possible for evil to exist and thrive.

Wrong. Evil is not extant. It only exists as the absence of something else. It’s like darkness and cold. They are not extant either.

God invented cold, darkness and evil. Suck it up, princess.

Clearly you do not comprehend what it means that evil, darkness and cold only exist as the absence of something else.