keys to the kingdom

[hobelim]

Not once, but 3 times in my life I have "lost all my worldly possessions" in one way or another. The first time occurred when I was only 15. The lesson that I learned was that possessions are replaceable but people are not. As long as you are with the people you love you will survive the loss of "worldly goods". So this is a lesson that I already have experienced and no, it never brought me any closer to "God" but it did teach me to value the time that I have with my nearest and dearest. They are real and so is the love we share. We don't need anything more than that to survive whatever life, or a serpent, throws at us.

Thanks for sharing that and I have had similar experiences with similar conclusions except that I also lost the people I loved. Discovering what's more important than worldly possessions is a positive thing to take from a negative experience and a sign of good mental health but what those experiences and awareness made me question is if that is what Jesus literally meant in those obvious parables about selling or giving away what you own to acquire something of greater value..

I also found that it did not bring me closer to God or give me an awareness of any riches in heaven.

I mean why would God want anyone to become deliberately destitute and what good are riches in heaven if you don't have a pot to piss in and can't help to provide for those people you love on earth?



My conclusion as described before is that the teaching conveyed is not to literally give away everything you own to be deserving of some vague promise of an afterlife, its about ridding your mind of the garbage that you have accumulated like wealth so that it can receive a greater knowledge and experience of conscious life in the here and now.

You can't add new wine to a cup that is already full of old wine without making a mess..

My belated condolences on the loss of your loved ones.

Hard to flush away experience. You are talking about perceptions and habits that have accumulated along with the experience. Certainly I have a bias against people who are inconsiderate drivers. They annoy me and and can even be the cause of road rage and accidents. Must I rid myself of this bias? Or is this on too trivial a level? What must be mentally "decluttered" in order to "receive a greater knowledge and experience of conscious life"?

Yes, you must rid yourself of this bias and no it is not trivial. There could be many reasonable explanations why some people might be driving poorly. they could be old or a new driver. They could have forgotten their glasses at home or they could be distracted by children or any other explanation that would never justify disturbing your peaceful state of mind by being annoyed or degenerating into anger. Would you want someone flipping off your grandmother, daughter or wife because bad drivers piss them off and they were in a hurry?

In some way in your mind there exists a disdain for people in general that becomes focused on bad drivers in particular. The problem is not anyone else's driving, the problem is it having a negative effect on you based on that preexisting disdain.

Could it be your boss, or your debts, or your lover, or the obstinate stupidity of some people in general at the root of the anger you feel justified on ventilating at bad drivers?

If so, wouldn't it behoove you be in better control of your feelings and more appropriately focus them at the right cause where that energy might have a positive effect or at least a better effect then becoming enraged??

Perhaps a better understanding about people in general would cause you to feel concern or empathy for them instead of anger whenever you have to deal with what you might be wrongly assuming are just stupid people in your way?

Wouldn't that be a better approach since you are bound to run into many people driving poorly every day than condemning yourself to feeling poorly every day?



.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Thanks for sharing that and I have had similar experiences with similar conclusions except that I also lost the people I loved. Discovering what's more important than worldly possessions is a positive thing to take from a negative experience and a sign of good mental health but what those experiences and awareness made me question is if that is what Jesus literally meant in those obvious parables about selling or giving away what you own to acquire something of greater value..

I also found that it did not bring me closer to God or give me an awareness of any riches in heaven.

I mean why would God want anyone to become deliberately destitute and what good are riches in heaven if you don't have a pot to piss in and can't help to provide for those people you love on earth?



My conclusion as described before is that the teaching conveyed is not to literally give away everything you own to be deserving of some vague promise of an afterlife, its about ridding your mind of the garbage that you have accumulated like wealth so that it can receive a greater knowledge and experience of conscious life in the here and now.

You can't add new wine to a cup that is already full of old wine without making a mess..

My belated condolences on the loss of your loved ones.

Hard to flush away experience. You are talking about perceptions and habits that have accumulated along with the experience. Certainly I have a bias against people who are inconsiderate drivers. They annoy me and and can even be the cause of road rage and accidents. Must I rid myself of this bias? Or is this on too trivial a level? What must be mentally "decluttered" in order to "receive a greater knowledge and experience of conscious life"?

Yes, you must rid yourself of this bias and no it is not trivial. There could be many reasonable explanations why some people might be driving poorly. they could be old or a new driver. They could have forgotten their glasses at home or they could be distracted by children or any other explanation that would never justify disturbing your peaceful state of mind by being annoyed or degenerating into anger. Would you want someone flipping off your grandmother, daughter or wife because bad drivers piss them off and they were in a hurry?

In some way in your mind there exists a disdain for people in general that becomes focused on bad drivers in particular. The problem is not anyone else's driving, the problem is it having a negative effect on you based on that preexisting disdain.

Could it be your boss, or your debts, or your lover, or the obstinate stupidity of some people in general at the root of the anger you feel justified on ventilating at bad drivers?

If so, wouldn't it behoove you be in better control of your feelings and more appropriately focus them at the right cause where that energy might have a positive effect or at least a better effect then becoming enraged??

Perhaps a better understanding about people in general would cause you to feel concern or empathy for them instead of anger whenever you have to deal with what you might be wrongly assuming are just stupid people in your way?

Wouldn't that be a better approach since you are bound to run into many people driving poorly every day than condemning yourself to feeling poorly every day?



.

They are not worth anything more than annoyance to me. It is the rage that they generate in others that I was pointing out. Yes, the majority of people are bad drivers and there is nothing that I can do about it. Until there are fully automated vehicles that can drive for them we stuck with the status quo.

I used that example because it is just one of the many stupid things that we all deal with on a daily basis. You waste your time with TW and his ilk knowing full well that nothing you post will ever change them. Still you do it as a means of venting your own negative emotions and disdain for them. This is how we cope as people. We find outlets that allow us to rebalance ourselves. It is foolhardy to deny that we become annoyed. What you are saying is that there is a better ways to cope. The question is what are those ways?

 

[hobelim]

They are not worth anything more than annoyance to me. It is the rage that they generate in others that I was pointing out. Yes, the majority of people are bad drivers and there is nothing that I can do about it. Until there are fully automated vehicles that can drive for them we stuck with the status quo.

like I said it is not trivial. You can't do anything about bad drivers but you can do something about what you are thinking that causes even a mild annoyance. If you tolerate having mild annoyances which has everything to do with you and nothing to do with bad drivers the odds increase that on any given day with one too many little annoyances you could explode in many unpredictable and unrelated ways that could risk injury to yourself and even the people you do love..

I used that example because it is just one of the many stupid things that we all deal with on a daily basis. You waste your time with TW and his ilk knowing full well that nothing you post will ever change them. Still you do it as a means of venting your own negative emotions and disdain for them.

I do not deny having disdain for the bull he and other people are trying to spread in the name of God, but towards him I feel pity. I am only here because I have something to offer on the subject. Getting into it with TW is simply a means of revealing what that is for him and others whether he or anyone else can accept it or not.

TW may be out of his mind but he is not malicious and probably is just a hapless victim of mind control, what the ancients called demonic possession. When you discover a victim of a scam, do you punish the victim or open their eyes?

Do you think he doesn't deserve a chance to recover by the offer of a hand out of the pit that he has fallen into?

This is how we cope as people. We find outlets that allow us to rebalance ourselves. It is foolhardy to deny that we become annoyed. What you are saying is that there is a better ways to cope. The question is what are those ways?

When a cop looks at people, he looks for the signs of a criminal. A doctor looks for the signs of illness. An atheist, stupidity.

When Jesus looked at people he was looking for a lost child of God.

Where you are coming from has everything to do with where you are going and where you end up, perceptually, psychologically and emotionally..

Change how you see things in general and the world will change, even if nothing else does.. Change how you see other people in particular, and annoyances will diminish and compassion and understanding will increase and your heart will be filled with love instead of disdain.

Try to see them as victims, not criminals, sick, not bad, deceived, not stupid.

 

[theword]

all righty then, thanks for telling everyone that you are a fool (as if it was a big secret) who sold everything he had only to pretend to be a saint of God who is the Christ without even knowing what the treasures of heaven are yet convinced he will have them.... just as soon as the world is destroyed.

What a dingbat!

The fat trimmed from the flesh and removed from the bone now burning on the fire is a soothing and fragrant offering to the Lord.

Dingbats don't understand how God created everything.

Can your pride handle how God created you?

Why must your God take the blame for "creating" you?

God, our Creator, is to blame for everything since He created everything.

 

[Derideo_Te]

They are not worth anything more than annoyance to me. It is the rage that they generate in others that I was pointing out. Yes, the majority of people are bad drivers and there is nothing that I can do about it. Until there are fully automated vehicles that can drive for them we stuck with the status quo.

like I said it is not trivial. You can't do anything about bad drivers but you can do something about what you are thinking that causes even a mild annoyance. If you tolerate having mild annoyances which has everything to do with you and nothing to do with bad drivers the odds increase that on any given day with one too many little annoyances you could explode in many unpredictable and unrelated ways that could risk injury to yourself and even the people you do love..

I used that example because it is just one of the many stupid things that we all deal with on a daily basis. You waste your time with TW and his ilk knowing full well that nothing you post will ever change them. Still you do it as a means of venting your own negative emotions and disdain for them.

I do not deny having disdain for the bull he and other people are trying to spread in the name of God, but towards him I feel pity. I am only here because I have something to offer on the subject. Getting into it with TW is simply a means of revealing what that is for him and others whether he or anyone else can accept it or not.

TW may be out of his mind but he is not malicious and probably is just a hapless victim of mind control, what the ancients called demonic possession. When you discover a victim of a scam, do you punish the victim or open their eyes?

Do you think he doesn't deserve a chance to recover by the offer of a hand out of the pit that he has fallen into?

This is how we cope as people. We find outlets that allow us to rebalance ourselves. It is foolhardy to deny that we become annoyed. What you are saying is that there is a better ways to cope. The question is what are those ways?

When a cop looks at people, he looks for the signs of a criminal. A doctor looks for the signs of illness. An atheist, stupidity.

When Jesus looked at people he was looking for a lost child of God.

Where you are coming from has everything to do with where you are going and where you end up, perceptually, psychologically and emotionally..

Change how you see things in general and the world will change, even if nothing else does.. Change how you see other people in particular, and annoyances will diminish and compassion and understanding will increase and your heart will be filled with love instead of disdain.

Try to see them as victims, not criminals, sick, not bad, deceived, not stupid.

Have you ever worked with alcoholics? I don't mean close family members. I mean the bums that live inside a bottle. They are perhaps the most manipulative types on the planet. They will agree with everything you say simply in order to meet their immediate needs. If you don't give them what they want (usually money) they try and lay a guilt trip on you. They are not "victims" in the same sense that someone was a victim of a hurricane or a tornado or an earthquake.

Real victims are people who are caught up in circumstances beyond their control. People like TW and his ilk might initially have been the "victims" of a religious scam but just like the alcoholic he is now a part of the scam instead. He will promise anything in order to get you to join his cult and he will guilt trip you when you don't. Religion can be an addictive substance just like drugs and alcohol and it makes people act in ways they would not if they were not addicted.

Please note that just as everyone who has a drink is not an alcoholic neither is everyone who embraces religion an addict. We are talking only about those who don't know the meaning of the terms moderation and self control. TW and his ilk fall into this category. As such they are not the victims but the scammers. They are the problem and you are just wasting your time if you believe that they are "victims" who can be "saved".

 

[hobelim]

Have you ever worked with alcoholics? I don't mean close family members. I mean the bums that live inside a bottle. They are perhaps the most manipulative types on the planet. They will agree with everything you say simply in order to meet their immediate needs. If you don't give them what they want (usually money) they try and lay a guilt trip on you. They are not "victims" in the same sense that someone was a victim of a hurricane or a tornado or an earthquake.

Real victims are people who are caught up in circumstances beyond their control. People like TW and his ilk might initially have been the "victims" of a religious scam but just like the alcoholic he is now a part of the scam instead. He will promise anything in order to get you to join his cult and he will guilt trip you when you don't. Religion can be an addictive substance just like drugs and alcohol and it makes people act in ways they would not if they were not addicted.

Please note that just as everyone who has a drink is not an alcoholic neither is everyone who embraces religion an addict. We are talking only about those who don't know the meaning of the terms moderation and self control. TW and his ilk fall into this category. As such they are not the victims but the scammers. They are the problem and you are just wasting your time if you believe that they are "victims" who can be "saved".

Excellent post and if you can discern the difference between a victim and a scammer then you must also be able to discern that some scammers are victims scamming unintentionally and further discernment is necessary to separate the wheat from the chaff..

That's why I give them the benefit of the doubt, at first. You must have noticed that I have already identified TW as a serpent. If he did take the chance given him to admit his errors and change his tune the signs of his liberation would be obvious and impossible to fake however manipulative and slippery he may be.

Such transformations are possible and the subject of resurrection and ascension. And even if he remains condemned to crawl on his belly and eat dust the for the rest of his days, in the process of contention with him the truth will come out and he will have to part with some if not all of those many possessions he claims.



Everyone knows that the donkey ears are there to stay if someone remains on Pleasure Island too long.

That's why it is perceived as a miracle tantamount to rising from the dead when someone escapes that fate, especially someone completely deceived by a 'true saint'.

 

[theword]

Have you ever worked with alcoholics? I don't mean close family members. I mean the bums that live inside a bottle. They are perhaps the most manipulative types on the planet. They will agree with everything you say simply in order to meet their immediate needs. If you don't give them what they want (usually money) they try and lay a guilt trip on you. They are not "victims" in the same sense that someone was a victim of a hurricane or a tornado or an earthquake.

Real victims are people who are caught up in circumstances beyond their control. People like TW and his ilk might initially have been the "victims" of a religious scam but just like the alcoholic he is now a part of the scam instead. He will promise anything in order to get you to join his cult and he will guilt trip you when you don't. Religion can be an addictive substance just like drugs and alcohol and it makes people act in ways they would not if they were not addicted.

Please note that just as everyone who has a drink is not an alcoholic neither is everyone who embraces religion an addict. We are talking only about those who don't know the meaning of the terms moderation and self control. TW and his ilk fall into this category. As such they are not the victims but the scammers. They are the problem and you are just wasting your time if you believe that they are "victims" who can be "saved".

Excellent post and if you can discern the difference between a victim and a scammer then you must also be able to discern that some scammers are victims scamming unintentionally and further discernment is necessary to separate the wheat from the chaff..

That's why I give them the benefit of the doubt, at first. You must have noticed that I have already identified TW as a serpent. If he did take the chance given him to admit his errors and change his tune the signs of his liberation would be obvious and impossible to fake however manipulative and slippery he may be.

Such transformations are possible and the subject of resurrection and ascension. And even if he remains condemned to crawl on his belly and eat dust the for the rest of his days, in the process of contention with him the truth will come out and he will have to part with some if not all of those many possessions he claims.



Everyone knows that the donkey ears are there to stay if someone remains on Pleasure Island too long.

That's why it is perceived as a miracle tantamount to rising from the dead when someone escapes that fate, especially someone completely deceived by a 'true saint'.

True saints speak for God so if you believe that someone can be deceived by a "true saint", you are a liar.

It's obvious you're one of those sinful Christians who have no idea who God is.

1 John 1:
6: If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth;

1 John 2:
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 John 3:
4: Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.

8: He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of

 

[hobelim]

True saints speak for God so if you believe that someone can be deceived by a "true saint", you are a liar.

1 John 1:
6: If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth;

1 John 2:
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 John 3:
4: Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (disobedience to the law)

6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.

8: He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of

You don't speak for God and you are not a true saint. You are not even a very good fake saint.

You just posted verses from scripture that speak on sin, lawlessness and disobedience to the commands of God.

....after you posted this a few days ago;

The saints were told that the Jews added their religious laws in Leviticus to control people and make money off of them. .

After the real Jesus said this,;

"He who sets aside the least of the laws demands and teaches others to do the same will have the lowest place in the kingdom of Heaven." Mat.5:17-20



To understand what Jesus meant by saying 'the lowest place' - see genesis 3:14.

Have a nice day.

 

[theword]

True saints speak for God so if you believe that someone can be deceived by a "true saint", you are a liar.

1 John 1:
6: If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth;

1 John 2:
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 John 3:
4: Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (disobedience to the law)

6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.

8: He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of

You don't speak for God and you are not a true saint. You are not even a very good fake saint.

You just posted verses from scripture that speak on sin, lawlessness and disobedience to the commands of God.

....after you posted this a few days ago;

The saints were told that the Jews added their religious laws in Leviticus to control people and make money off of them. .

After the real Jesus said this,;

"He who sets aside the least of the laws demands and teaches others to do the same will have the lowest place in the kingdom of Heaven." Mat.5:17-20



To understand what Jesus meant by saying 'the lowest place' - see genesis 3:14.

Have a nice day.

Christian liars have a great way of twisting the testimonies of a saint to make them appear more holy than the flesh of a saint. Too bad all flesh dies in this age along with all Christian sinners.

 

[sealybobo]

But see, you can't assume we already agree. The Bible was written by the Holy Spirit. About 40 men penned what God breathed. The proof of that is in what they penned.

What I wrote was not for you, and what you wrote demonstrates that the topic is beyond your grasp.

shut up, go to the back of the class and hear, if you have ears to hear.

If you can't do that find a herd of squealing pigs to join if you want to gibber incoherently about things of which you now nothing and you would feel right at home.

Otherwise I have no choice but to use you as an example for the benefit of those for whom this topic is not beyond their grasp.

It's over everyones head except yours and boss.

 

[RWNJ]

True saints speak for God so if you believe that someone can be deceived by a "true saint", you are a liar.

1 John 1:
6: If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth;

1 John 2:
4: He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 John 3:
4: Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. (disobedience to the law)

6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.

8: He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of

You don't speak for God and you are not a true saint. You are not even a very good fake saint.

You just posted verses from scripture that speak on sin, lawlessness and disobedience to the commands of God.

....after you posted this a few days ago;

The saints were told that the Jews added their religious laws in Leviticus to control people and make money off of them. .

After the real Jesus said this,;

"He who sets aside the least of the laws demands and teaches others to do the same will have the lowest place in the kingdom of Heaven." Mat.5:17-20



To understand what Jesus meant by saying 'the lowest place' - see genesis 3:14.

Have a nice day.

Christian liars have a great way of twisting the testimonies of a saint to make them appear more holy than the flesh of a saint. Too bad all flesh dies in this age along with all Christian sinners.

According to Scripture, all Christians are Saints.

 

[yiostheoy]

As someone who is always open to learning about new ideas and concepts I am willing to admit to being intrigued enough to want to find out more about this. Please proceed with the lesson either in this thread or another or even via PMs if you prefer.

I think the best way to begin is by discovering the hidden meaning of the words and subjects in scripture not necessarily directly connected to the literal meanings of the words used.

I will assume that we already agree that the Bible is a collection of stories written and edited by many different unknown authors separated by thousands of years of time reflecting the many different contemporary conditions and concerns all of which is supposed to have happened on earth in this same reality.

I will also assume that you are already studied in traditional literary techniques and forms of expression and have a background in the sciences and a sober knowledge of what is possible and impossible.


All of this will serve as a good foundation on which to build upon, reality being the constant constraint on any possible interpretation..

How to perceive God necessarily must come later.

After seeing what is right and wrong and where judgment lies according to the deeper implications of scripture, an indeterminate period of time must occur for cleansing the mind from all formerly held beliefs opinions and judgments that were found to be in error. Then more time must be spent learning to master the previously unknown abilities of a purified mind. If you do this everywhere you look, you will see God.

To avoid babbling or talking about something you are not interested in or already know, tell me if you have any specific questions?

Are there any particular subjects in scripture or miracles of Jesus that you would like to have resolved with reality?

Traditionally St. Peter hold the keys and he sits at the Pearly Gates letting some in and others not in.

 

[yiostheoy]

They are not worth anything more than annoyance to me. It is the rage that they generate in others that I was pointing out. Yes, the majority of people are bad drivers and there is nothing that I can do about it. Until there are fully automated vehicles that can drive for them we stuck with the status quo.

like I said it is not trivial. You can't do anything about bad drivers but you can do something about what you are thinking that causes even a mild annoyance. If you tolerate having mild annoyances which has everything to do with you and nothing to do with bad drivers the odds increase that on any given day with one too many little annoyances you could explode in many unpredictable and unrelated ways that could risk injury to yourself and even the people you do love..

I used that example because it is just one of the many stupid things that we all deal with on a daily basis. You waste your time with TW and his ilk knowing full well that nothing you post will ever change them. Still you do it as a means of venting your own negative emotions and disdain for them.

I do not deny having disdain for the bull he and other people are trying to spread in the name of God, but towards him I feel pity. I am only here because I have something to offer on the subject. Getting into it with TW is simply a means of revealing what that is for him and others whether he or anyone else can accept it or not.

TW may be out of his mind but he is not malicious and probably is just a hapless victim of mind control, what the ancients called demonic possession. When you discover a victim of a scam, do you punish the victim or open their eyes?

Do you think he doesn't deserve a chance to recover by the offer of a hand out of the pit that he has fallen into?

This is how we cope as people. We find outlets that allow us to rebalance ourselves. It is foolhardy to deny that we become annoyed. What you are saying is that there is a better ways to cope. The question is what are those ways?

When a cop looks at people, he looks for the signs of a criminal. A doctor looks for the signs of illness. An atheist, stupidity.

When Jesus looked at people he was looking for a lost child of God.

Where you are coming from has everything to do with where you are going and where you end up, perceptually, psychologically and emotionally..

Change how you see things in general and the world will change, even if nothing else does.. Change how you see other people in particular, and annoyances will diminish and compassion and understanding will increase and your heart will be filled with love instead of disdain.

Try to see them as victims, not criminals, sick, not bad, deceived, not stupid.

Have you ever worked with alcoholics? I don't mean close family members. I mean the bums that live inside a bottle. They are perhaps the most manipulative types on the planet. They will agree with everything you say simply in order to meet their immediate needs. If you don't give them what they want (usually money) they try and lay a guilt trip on you. They are not "victims" in the same sense that someone was a victim of a hurricane or a tornado or an earthquake.

Real victims are people who are caught up in circumstances beyond their control. People like TW and his ilk might initially have been the "victims" of a religious scam but just like the alcoholic he is now a part of the scam instead. He will promise anything in order to get you to join his cult and he will guilt trip you when you don't. Religion can be an addictive substance just like drugs and alcohol and it makes people act in ways they would not if they were not addicted.

Please note that just as everyone who has a drink is not an alcoholic neither is everyone who embraces religion an addict. We are talking only about those who don't know the meaning of the terms moderation and self control. TW and his ilk fall into this category. As such they are not the victims but the scammers. They are the problem and you are just wasting your time if you believe that they are "victims" who can be "saved".

Everyone should believe in something.

I believe I will have another drink!

 

[RWNJ]

As someone who is always open to learning about new ideas and concepts I am willing to admit to being intrigued enough to want to find out more about this. Please proceed with the lesson either in this thread or another or even via PMs if you prefer.

I think the best way to begin is by discovering the hidden meaning of the words and subjects in scripture not necessarily directly connected to the literal meanings of the words used.

I will assume that we already agree that the Bible is a collection of stories written and edited by many different unknown authors separated by thousands of years of time reflecting the many different contemporary conditions and concerns all of which is supposed to have happened on earth in this same reality.

I will also assume that you are already studied in traditional literary techniques and forms of expression and have a background in the sciences and a sober knowledge of what is possible and impossible.


All of this will serve as a good foundation on which to build upon, reality being the constant constraint on any possible interpretation..

How to perceive God necessarily must come later.

After seeing what is right and wrong and where judgment lies according to the deeper implications of scripture, an indeterminate period of time must occur for cleansing the mind from all formerly held beliefs opinions and judgments that were found to be in error. Then more time must be spent learning to master the previously unknown abilities of a purified mind. If you do this everywhere you look, you will see God.

To avoid babbling or talking about something you are not interested in or already know, tell me if you have any specific questions?

Are there any particular subjects in scripture or miracles of Jesus that you would like to have resolved with reality?

Traditionally St. Peter hold the keys and he sits at the Pearly Gates letting some in and others not in.

That is complete fiction. No one enters Heaven unless their name is written if the Book of Life. Peter has no say whatsoever.

 

[ding]

Thank you for starting this thread.

The basics are pretty well established. The origins of the "holy texts" and their subsequent editing to suit the agendas of the powers du jour have been well documented and don't need to be rehashed.

The essential problem with them is that (a) they purport to describe an omnipotent being who has some serious issues, and (b) provide directions on how to establish contact with said being via a dubious conduit, and (c) offer an incentive that any snake oil salesman would be proud to have thought of first.

What you inferred earlier (and above) is that there is something else there besides just the basics. What I am curious to know is what is it that you are seeing? What else is in there that isn't obvious to someone like myself..

What I see aside from the basics that is not obvious to you or anybody is a coded language used throughout the entire Bible from the first book in the OT to the last book of the NT which is implied by the knowledge of those same basics.

The entire OT and the entire NT are a collection of stories written either during times of oppression or immediately after complete destruction of the nation and exile of the population when people were executed or maimed daily by the thousands for trivial reasons and truth was not valued and there was no such thing as justice or freedom of speech.

true?

It is a simply a logical deduction that the things said by whatever character in scripture, including God, conveys hidden meaning. If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it.

Also what I understand is that scripture was deliberately written in this way to confound and curse the enemy, whichever one of the many, if ever they tried to usurp authority over those stories to conquer other nations and control their own populations, which it has done historically to every nation that ever tried to assert moral authority based on that Book that superstitious people could never comprehend without the keys to deciphering that coded language.



Again talk about that omnipotent being, that dubious conduit of communication. and carrot on the stick necessarily must come later after you become fluent in the language of the prophets and you achieve comprehension of those hidden subjects ..

When that light goes on in your head, you will perceive God and he will make everything known to you.


Now that I have pointed it out how much of what is hidden can you already see? lets start at the beginning, in the garden of Eden and the creation of man taken from the 'dust of the earth' and formed into 'a living being' after God breathed 'the breath of life' into his nostrils.

What is the dust of the earth? What is a living being? What is the breath of life? and what do all those 'trees whose fruit is pleasing to the eye and good to eat' represent in paradise?

what can you see hidden right there implied by those terms?

The origins of the "holy texts" and their subsequent editing to suit the agendas of the powers du jour have been well documented and don't need to be rehashed. ..

One thing I can add to this is that despite the fact that scripture has been edited to suit the purposes of many corrupt leaders and times the fact is also that what was hidden remains in its pure form within the very stories that were preserved because the literal reading of scripture appealed to the superstitious nature of uneducated and violent people that were and are sworn enemies of the Jewish people and the treasure of knowledge and the power true knowledge brings that would eventually lead to the undoing of anyone's false claim to moral authority based on superstition (a very large brood and diverse species of serpent) has flown safely though the centuries way above their heads and will continue to remain above their grasp until the appointed time of restoration.

Start from the beginning of the Bible and decipher the code to reveal the "truth". Don't skip any verses. I call your bullshit.

 

[BreezeWood]

Didn't you realize that God had the Jews and Romans change the scriptures to deceive anyone who read them except a sinless saint?

no, it was not the Almighty ....

..............

theword was last seen: Jun 5, 2015

saint brad predicted his own demise ... maybe he finally got something right.

 

[hobelim]

Thank you for starting this thread.

The basics are pretty well established. The origins of the "holy texts" and their subsequent editing to suit the agendas of the powers du jour have been well documented and don't need to be rehashed.

The essential problem with them is that (a) they purport to describe an omnipotent being who has some serious issues, and (b) provide directions on how to establish contact with said being via a dubious conduit, and (c) offer an incentive that any snake oil salesman would be proud to have thought of first.

What you inferred earlier (and above) is that there is something else there besides just the basics. What I am curious to know is what is it that you are seeing? What else is in there that isn't obvious to someone like myself..

What I see aside from the basics that is not obvious to you or anybody is a coded language used throughout the entire Bible from the first book in the OT to the last book of the NT which is implied by the knowledge of those same basics.

The entire OT and the entire NT are a collection of stories written either during times of oppression or immediately after complete destruction of the nation and exile of the population when people were executed or maimed daily by the thousands for trivial reasons and truth was not valued and there was no such thing as justice or freedom of speech.

true?

It is a simply a logical deduction that the things said by whatever character in scripture, including God, conveys hidden meaning. If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it.

Also what I understand is that scripture was deliberately written in this way to confound and curse the enemy, whichever one of the many, if ever they tried to usurp authority over those stories to conquer other nations and control their own populations, which it has done historically to every nation that ever tried to assert moral authority based on that Book that superstitious people could never comprehend without the keys to deciphering that coded language.



Again talk about that omnipotent being, that dubious conduit of communication. and carrot on the stick necessarily must come later after you become fluent in the language of the prophets and you achieve comprehension of those hidden subjects ..

When that light goes on in your head, you will perceive God and he will make everything known to you.


Now that I have pointed it out how much of what is hidden can you already see? lets start at the beginning, in the garden of Eden and the creation of man taken from the 'dust of the earth' and formed into 'a living being' after God breathed 'the breath of life' into his nostrils.

What is the dust of the earth? What is a living being? What is the breath of life? and what do all those 'trees whose fruit is pleasing to the eye and good to eat' represent in paradise?

what can you see hidden right there implied by those terms?

The origins of the "holy texts" and their subsequent editing to suit the agendas of the powers du jour have been well documented and don't need to be rehashed. ..

One thing I can add to this is that despite the fact that scripture has been edited to suit the purposes of many corrupt leaders and times the fact is also that what was hidden remains in its pure form within the very stories that were preserved because the literal reading of scripture appealed to the superstitious nature of uneducated and violent people that were and are sworn enemies of the Jewish people and the treasure of knowledge and the power true knowledge brings that would eventually lead to the undoing of anyone's false claim to moral authority based on superstition (a very large brood and diverse species of serpent) has flown safely though the centuries way above their heads and will continue to remain above their grasp until the appointed time of restoration.

Start from the beginning of the Bible and decipher the code to reveal the "truth". Don't skip any verses. I call your bullshit.

You are making yourself look like a very desperate man digging this up at this time. lol. Thats a shame. I do understand though. Time is running out and all that.

Again, Who was it that said, "Give me a child for ten years and I'll give you a Catholic for life"?

Whoever it was you see him as a champion of the faith. I see him as a demonic serial killer of children.

Lets face it. There is no way to reconcile these two points of view.

So you go ahead and do your best to mislead others and perjure yourself in the name of God till kingdom come.

I'll continue to diminish your pool of potential victims.

I have no interest in trying to dissuade you from the deliberate choice that you have made or go over and over the same subjects with you ad nauseam in your current state of discomfit.

I'm not sadistic.

 

[Taz]

But see, you can't assume we already agree. The Bible was written by the Holy Spirit. About 40 men penned what God breathed. The proof of that is in what they penned.

Ask 40 people here to pen something. (make sure you include word as one of the 40) When they are done, try to put what they wrote into coherent chapters that compliment each other's work. Then ask them to predict the future and make their prophecy a cohesive part of what the others wrote.
Let them know that if any of their prediction prove to be false, the person who predicted the falsehood dies. ( be sure to include word's prediction of his own death, cause....)

Have the 40 add science that hasn't been discovered yet.
Then let see the mess they come up with.

As for science, there is Nachmanides, who used Genesis to teach us about dimensions. Seculars like Hawking still haven't caught up to him yet, but relying on their own understanding, modern science has finally figured out that there are more than the 4 dimensions already given to them in

Ephesians 3: 17,18
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

What is next for our learned humans to discover, is that dimensions can be stretched, rolled up, burnt up, bent, shaken and torn. Just like the Holy Spirit described to the Bible authors.
Modern science hasn't evolved that far along yet. We just recently found out 6 other dimensions exist. And maybe an infinite amount of them exist. And why not. Our Father is a creator.

So my question is:
Without collaborating with each other, how did Isaiah, David, Paul, Peter know different attributes of dimensions without the help of The Holy Spirit on whom they all leaned? How did one know they could be shaken and another know they can be rolled up? It took 20 centuries for the nonleaners to realize they exist at all, let alone how they function!
Could 40 of us here at USMB accomplish what the 40 who wrote the Bible did with the same accuracy?

If only 1 person wrote the Bible, it would be much easier to refute, but 40, including eyewitnesses, historians, prophets, physicians, accountants, priests, shepherds, astronomers, kings, and fishermen coming together to produce sound doctrine is much harder to dispute.

As for editing what these men wrote, it just has not happened. What has been edited that we can point to the Dead Sea Scrolls and say, "See, this book has been changed from the original". Not one.

If you want a good foundation, let's start from the ground up.
Did the Big Bang occur when God uttered, "Let there be light"? We know that nothing + nothing does not = something, so what was the catalyst that created the light?
God is the personification of light, and he takes things to the nth degree. There are scientists, after observing laser beams, that believe that light can make decisions.
Can it?

"Did the Big Bang occur when God uttered, "Let there be light"? We know that nothing + nothing does not = something, so what was the catalyst that created the light?"

Actually, after the BB, the universe was dark for around 400 million years before light appeared. And it was gravity that made it happen by pulling the hydrogen atoms together, not the god of the bible.

"There are scientists, after observing laser beams, that believe that light can make decisions." That's interesting, you got a link?

"As for editing what these men wrote, it just has not happened. What has been edited that we can point to the Dead Sea Scrolls and say, "See, this book has been changed from the original". Not one."

The chapter about aliens has been left out, among others...

"Without collaborating with each other, how did Isaiah, David, Paul, Peter know different attributes of dimensions without the help of The Holy Spirit on whom they all leaned?"

Science has determined that the NT chapters are dated to a minimum of several generations after the facts. So likely written together.

 

[ding]

Thank you for starting this thread.

The basics are pretty well established. The origins of the "holy texts" and their subsequent editing to suit the agendas of the powers du jour have been well documented and don't need to be rehashed.

The essential problem with them is that (a) they purport to describe an omnipotent being who has some serious issues, and (b) provide directions on how to establish contact with said being via a dubious conduit, and (c) offer an incentive that any snake oil salesman would be proud to have thought of first.

What you inferred earlier (and above) is that there is something else there besides just the basics. What I am curious to know is what is it that you are seeing? What else is in there that isn't obvious to someone like myself..

What I see aside from the basics that is not obvious to you or anybody is a coded language used throughout the entire Bible from the first book in the OT to the last book of the NT which is implied by the knowledge of those same basics.

The entire OT and the entire NT are a collection of stories written either during times of oppression or immediately after complete destruction of the nation and exile of the population when people were executed or maimed daily by the thousands for trivial reasons and truth was not valued and there was no such thing as justice or freedom of speech.

true?

It is a simply a logical deduction that the things said by whatever character in scripture, including God, conveys hidden meaning. If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it.

Also what I understand is that scripture was deliberately written in this way to confound and curse the enemy, whichever one of the many, if ever they tried to usurp authority over those stories to conquer other nations and control their own populations, which it has done historically to every nation that ever tried to assert moral authority based on that Book that superstitious people could never comprehend without the keys to deciphering that coded language.



Again talk about that omnipotent being, that dubious conduit of communication. and carrot on the stick necessarily must come later after you become fluent in the language of the prophets and you achieve comprehension of those hidden subjects ..

When that light goes on in your head, you will perceive God and he will make everything known to you.


Now that I have pointed it out how much of what is hidden can you already see? lets start at the beginning, in the garden of Eden and the creation of man taken from the 'dust of the earth' and formed into 'a living being' after God breathed 'the breath of life' into his nostrils.

What is the dust of the earth? What is a living being? What is the breath of life? and what do all those 'trees whose fruit is pleasing to the eye and good to eat' represent in paradise?

what can you see hidden right there implied by those terms?

The origins of the "holy texts" and their subsequent editing to suit the agendas of the powers du jour have been well documented and don't need to be rehashed. ..

One thing I can add to this is that despite the fact that scripture has been edited to suit the purposes of many corrupt leaders and times the fact is also that what was hidden remains in its pure form within the very stories that were preserved because the literal reading of scripture appealed to the superstitious nature of uneducated and violent people that were and are sworn enemies of the Jewish people and the treasure of knowledge and the power true knowledge brings that would eventually lead to the undoing of anyone's false claim to moral authority based on superstition (a very large brood and diverse species of serpent) has flown safely though the centuries way above their heads and will continue to remain above their grasp until the appointed time of restoration.

Start from the beginning of the Bible and decipher the code to reveal the "truth". Don't skip any verses. I call your bullshit.

You are making yourself look like a very desperate man digging this up at this time. lol. Thats a shame. I do understand though. Time is running out and all that.

Again, Who was it that said, "Give me a child for ten years and I'll give you a Catholic for life"?

Whoever it was you see him as a champion of the faith. I see him as a demonic serial killer of children.

Lets face it. There is no way to reconcile these two points of view.

So you go ahead and do your best to mislead others and perjure yourself in the name of God till kingdom come.

I'll continue to diminish your pool of potential victims.

I have no interest in trying to dissuade you from the deliberate choice that you have made or go over and over the same subjects with you ad nauseam in your current state of discomfit.

I'm not sadistic.

 

[ding]

Thank you for starting this thread.

The basics are pretty well established. The origins of the "holy texts" and their subsequent editing to suit the agendas of the powers du jour have been well documented and don't need to be rehashed.

The essential problem with them is that (a) they purport to describe an omnipotent being who has some serious issues, and (b) provide directions on how to establish contact with said being via a dubious conduit, and (c) offer an incentive that any snake oil salesman would be proud to have thought of first.

What you inferred earlier (and above) is that there is something else there besides just the basics. What I am curious to know is what is it that you are seeing? What else is in there that isn't obvious to someone like myself..

What I see aside from the basics that is not obvious to you or anybody is a coded language used throughout the entire Bible from the first book in the OT to the last book of the NT which is implied by the knowledge of those same basics.

The entire OT and the entire NT are a collection of stories written either during times of oppression or immediately after complete destruction of the nation and exile of the population when people were executed or maimed daily by the thousands for trivial reasons and truth was not valued and there was no such thing as justice or freedom of speech.

true?

It is a simply a logical deduction that the things said by whatever character in scripture, including God, conveys hidden meaning. If you look and look and keep on looking you will find it.

Also what I understand is that scripture was deliberately written in this way to confound and curse the enemy, whichever one of the many, if ever they tried to usurp authority over those stories to conquer other nations and control their own populations, which it has done historically to every nation that ever tried to assert moral authority based on that Book that superstitious people could never comprehend without the keys to deciphering that coded language.



Again talk about that omnipotent being, that dubious conduit of communication. and carrot on the stick necessarily must come later after you become fluent in the language of the prophets and you achieve comprehension of those hidden subjects ..

When that light goes on in your head, you will perceive God and he will make everything known to you.


Now that I have pointed it out how much of what is hidden can you already see? lets start at the beginning, in the garden of Eden and the creation of man taken from the 'dust of the earth' and formed into 'a living being' after God breathed 'the breath of life' into his nostrils.

What is the dust of the earth? What is a living being? What is the breath of life? and what do all those 'trees whose fruit is pleasing to the eye and good to eat' represent in paradise?

what can you see hidden right there implied by those terms?

The origins of the "holy texts" and their subsequent editing to suit the agendas of the powers du jour have been well documented and don't need to be rehashed. ..

One thing I can add to this is that despite the fact that scripture has been edited to suit the purposes of many corrupt leaders and times the fact is also that what was hidden remains in its pure form within the very stories that were preserved because the literal reading of scripture appealed to the superstitious nature of uneducated and violent people that were and are sworn enemies of the Jewish people and the treasure of knowledge and the power true knowledge brings that would eventually lead to the undoing of anyone's false claim to moral authority based on superstition (a very large brood and diverse species of serpent) has flown safely though the centuries way above their heads and will continue to remain above their grasp until the appointed time of restoration.

Start from the beginning of the Bible and decipher the code to reveal the "truth". Don't skip any verses. I call your bullshit.

You are making yourself look like a very desperate man digging this up at this time. lol. Thats a shame. I do understand though. Time is running out and all that.

Again, Who was it that said, "Give me a child for ten years and I'll give you a Catholic for life"?

Whoever it was you see him as a champion of the faith. I see him as a demonic serial killer of children.

Lets face it. There is no way to reconcile these two points of view.

So you go ahead and do your best to mislead others and perjure yourself in the name of God till kingdom come.

I'll continue to diminish your pool of potential victims.

I have no interest in trying to dissuade you from the deliberate choice that you have made or go over and over the same subjects with you ad nauseam in your current state of discomfit.

I'm not sadistic.

Start from the beginning of the Bible and decipher the code to reveal the "truth". Don't skip any verses. I call your bullshit.