keys to the kingdom

[BreezeWood]

And for those who have how can they possible ever be healed and avoid more knowledge of evil by being conned again and again without reaching out, taking and eating of the tree of life?

ones own Spirit is the enabling barrier - to reaching the knowledge of evil and so / to destroying it.

 

[theword]

Seek the tree of life and eat of its fruit first and you will always know the difference between knowledge that is good and knowledge that is evil.

Forgive me for interjecting, but you seem to be conflating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the fruit of the tree of life. They are separate trees.

Thank you and forgive me if I was not clear. Yes, they are two trees. The fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is confusion, the tree of life, understanding.

If you seek understanding you will know the difference between good fruit and evil fruit without having to experience the confusion of the knowledge of good and evil without understanding any of it.

No sinner can seek understanding and receive it. It must be given by our Creator who created saints and prophets as His servants to be the only ones who will receive "faith" in this age and used by God to reveal Himself through "Christ".

"Christ" is the thoughts of God without deception, the opposite of thoughts with deception ("Lucifer" and the "beast"). Once a servant of God is born again in the flesh, which is the point he becomes a saint, he begins receiving these thoughts without deception by God putting words from his own native language to help understand the invisible thoughts coming into his mind.

What is happening is that the false information that comes out of God 's planned "Lucifer", which is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that hides the tree of Life (Christ) is removed from the flesh of the saints. This reveals their true created existence, which is all God's creation without the false "Lucifer", the thoughts that caused the world delusion. This world delusion will be destroyed at the end of this age so that God's people will never be deceived again in the next age.

 

[MaryL]

We all want learn the hidden meaning of the scripture. But I wonder, why does God have to hide things in riddles? If things are so OBVIIOUS, why hide them ? I never understood why Jesus used parables instead of just saying what he meant. And The Bible contradicted itself so many times, as a child I just thought of Christianity like I did the Tooth Fairy or Santa . And I am not seeing any reason to believe ANY religion any more NOW.

 

[Derideo_Te]

We all want learn the hidden meaning of the scripture. But I wonder, why does God have to hide things in riddles? If things are so OBVIIOUS, why hide them ? I never understood why Jesus used parables instead of just saying what he meant. And The Bible contradicted itself so many times, as a child I just thought of Christianity like I did the Tooth Fairy or Santa . And I am not see any reason to believe ANY religion is any more real NOW.

Excellent point. If the words are taken on face value they reveal a very unflattering image. So perhaps the need to find "hidden meanings" is because the face value meaning is too unpalatable for anyone to swallow.

 

[hobelim]

[
Agreed that anything can be twisted but isn't that the very essence of the conundrum you are trying to overcome? Unless there is a way to establish that there can only be a single interpretation and all of them are consistent the message is going to either be garbled or subject to whatever fancy one chooses. Obviously you are serious and so you have found this consistency. What is needed now is to establish the criteria that determines which is the single correct interpretation and that all others are wrong.

excellent! You are right about the essence of the conundrum that so far I have overcome. And I may have mentioned somewhere else the criteria I use by which the only possibly correct interpretation, the truth, presents itself.

In any given sentence there are a finite number of words that convey a finite number of possible individual and combined meanings. Using reality as one constraint eliminates many irrational interpretations from consideration out of hand. What you mentioned, relevance to every culture and language of every period of time, is another constraint. Another constraint is if it easy enough for bronze age children to understand and if the interpretation resolves those many mentioned contradictions obvious in many so called orthodox beliefs.

Eventually, in this way, only one interpretation that could possibly qualify as the truth remains. If all the pieces fit, all mysteries are revealed, every contradiction is resolved, minds are opened, the crippled and paralyzed stand up and walk, the blind see, the sick are healed, the weak become strong, the dead come out of their graves, prisoners are released from their dungeons, darkness vanishes and peace descends upon the land.

This is something that cannot be faked, and so it would have to be the truth.

 

[hobelim]

We all want learn the hidden meaning of the scripture. But I wonder, why does God have to hide things in riddles? If things are so OBVIIOUS, why hide them ? I never understood why Jesus used parables instead of just saying what he meant. And The Bible contradicted itself so many times, as a child I just thought of Christianity like I did the Tooth Fairy or Santa . And I am not seeing any reason to believe ANY religion any more NOW.

Hey, I am not a believer of any established religion either. But to answer your question of why all the parables and secrecy about what God said or what Jesus meant, just think of the times when those stories were written. There was no such thing as freedom of speech and people were maimed and killed on a daily basis for trivial reasons. One could not go about and openly preach rebellion against the romans without dying a horrible death in short order but you could go around and openly preach abstinence from the flesh of swine or render unto Caesar the things of Caesar or any number of other things without them ever getting an inkling about what was actually being taught, at least until they couldn't ignore that something must be going on, but by then it was too late.

Try to find the door the angels pulled Lot through, the door those struck with blindness could not find. Many unheard things are being said openly to this day and have been for as long as I can remember.

 

[hobelim]

Yes, let's go in this direction since it seems like it might be useful.

John 3:14, Numbers 21:4-9 and 2 Kings 18:4-6.

The easiest way to put it is that what Jesus said in John 3:14 is about the story in numbers 21:4-9, which is clarified by what is recorded in 2 Kings 18:4-6.

Follow me. The story Jesus referred to is a story about the people complaining about a plague of serpents sent as a punishment that killed anyone bitten and God responding to their complaints by telling Moses to make a bronze statue of a serpent of all things for them to look at to be healed.

This is referred to as the time of testing in the wilderness.

The very first question that arose in my mind after reading this story is why would the very same God who gave the law which forbids idolatry tell Moses to give them a statue to look at for healing unless either it was a test or it was Gods way of telling them fuck you or both.

The second question was how could someone who died when bitten look at anything at all and recover unless the death and the healing was not physical in nature.

2 Kings 18:4-6 is a story about Hezekiah, coincidentally the subject of the prophecy of the young maiden with child, who 'did what was right in Gods eyes' and destroyed the statue of the serpent Moses made.

The very first thought that arose in my mind after reading this story is that if destroying the statue of the serpent was right in Gods eyes then it was always wrong to turn to it for healing.



My conclusion is that Jesus made this comparison to the serpent being lifted up because he knew that his figurative teaching presented a test on how any given person would interpret and react to it, and that he also knew that as a consequence of their failure to comprehend, made obvious by his disciples as recorded in scripture, worship involving his name would degenerate into idolatry.

And why would the same Jesus who taught that his words give life tell his disciples to 'eat this' unless, like in the story of the serpent in the wilderness, it was also a test or Jesus' way of saying fuck you or both?

Also what else did Jesus have in mind when he told his disciples to pray to be spared the test if not that he hoped that they would just comprehend the right way to interpret and respond to his words without having to wonder?

 

[theword]

Yes, let's go in this direction since it seems like it might be useful.

John 3:14, Numbers 21:4-9 and 2 Kings 18:4-6.

The easiest way to put it is that what Jesus said in John 3:14 is about the story in numbers 21:4-9, which is clarified by what is recorded in 2 Kings 18:4-6.

Follow me. The story Jesus referred to is a story about the people complaining about a plague of serpents sent as a punishment that killed anyone bitten and God responding to their complaints by telling Moses to make a bronze statue of a serpent of all things for them to look at to be healed.

This is referred to as the time of testing in the wilderness.

The very first question that arose in my mind after reading this story is why would the very same God who gave the law which forbids idolatry tell Moses to give them a statue to look at for healing unless either it was a test or it was Gods way of telling them fuck you or both.

The second question was how could someone who died when bitten look at anything at all and recover unless the death and the healing was not physical in nature.

2 Kings 18:4-6 is a story about Hezekiah, coincidentally the subject of the prophecy of the young maiden with child, who 'did what was right in Gods eyes' and destroyed the statue of the serpent Moses made.

The very first thought that arose in my mind after reading this story is that if destroying the statue of the serpent was right in Gods eyes then it was always wrong to turn to it for healing.



My conclusion is that Jesus made this comparison to the serpent being lifted up because he knew that his figurative teaching presented a test on how any given person would interpret and react to it, and that he also knew that as a consequence of their failure to comprehend, made obvious by his disciples as recorded in scripture, worship involving his name would degenerate into idolatry.

And why would the same Jesus who taught that his words give life tell his disciples to 'eat this' unless, like in the story of the serpent in the wilderness, it was also a test or Jesus' way of saying fuck you or both?

Also what else did Jesus have in mind when he told his disciples to pray to be spared the test if not that he hoped that they would just comprehend the right way to interpret and respond to his words without having to wonder?

If you believe in the scriptures instead of the spoken word of God being delivered by a true saint, you will be deceived of the Truth. Didn't you realize that God had the Jews and Romans change the scriptures to deceive anyone who read them except a sinless saint?

The saints were told that the Jews added their religious laws in Leviticus to control people and make money off of them. We saints were also told that Christianity, the kingdom that comes out of the fourth kingdom (Roman Empire), would carry the "beast", which is God's plan to deceive man from the Truth but at the same time, teach men how to build things until we have the latest technology in place (microscopes, telescopes, computers, robots, and internet) to help us understand His invisible Kingdom called "Christ".

Now this age can end because we understand God's invisible kingdom and learned that He planned on destroying this world to end this first age. We'll never remember this age so it makes no difference what we learned. Besides, what we learned in this age came from Lucifer and the beast. Only the saints learned who we are as "Christ", which was needed so when we awaken in our new flesh in Paradise, we'll know who we are right away. We'll be used to speak the new language into existence and all the knowledge of God that goes with it.

Once we have a new language in place, the rest of God's created men, made both male and female, will be reborn into Paradise starting with the first man (a new Adam and Eve). We saints will teach them the new language that contains knowledge without deception (Christ).

 

[hobelim]

If you believe in the scriptures instead of the spoken word of God being delivered by a true saint, you will be deceived of the Truth.

Nonsense. Anyone claiming that scripture is not the word of God and that only they are a true saint, even the Christ himself, and that only they speak for God, and that the law of God as recorded in Leviticus should be set aside is a liar, even the very definition of the serpent.

Now this age can end because we understand God's invisible kingdom and learned that He planned on destroying this world to end this first age.

again more bullshit from a liar.


When scripture speaks of the destruction of the world when the stars will fall from the sky, the mountains will crumble to the sea, the valleys being lifted up, etc.. it is not a prophecy about cosmic catastrophe but a prophecy about social upheaval and change when conmen like yourself will be removed from the high and lofty places they have made for themselves...through the same type of deceit that murders the minds of anyone foolish enough to be swindled by your laughable and pretentious claim of being a true saint.

 

[theword]

If you believe in the scriptures instead of the spoken word of God being delivered by a true saint, you will be deceived of the Truth.

Nonsense. Anyone claiming that scripture is not the word of God and that only they are a true saint, even the Christ himself, and that only they speak for God, and that the law of God as recorded in Leviticus should be set aside is a liar, even the very definition of the serpent.

Now this age can end because we understand God's invisible kingdom and learned that He planned on destroying this world to end this first age.

again more bullshit from a liar.


When scripture speaks of the destruction of the world when the stars will fall from the sky, the mountains will crumble to the sea, the valleys being lifted up, etc.. it is not a prophecy about cosmic catastrophe but a prophecy about social upheaval and change when conmen like yourself will be removed from the high and lofty places they have made for themselves...through the same type of deceit that murders the minds of anyone foolish enough to be swindled by your laughable and pretentious claim of being a true saint.

The blind will remain blind until this world is destroyed. Then the blind will be free to see for the first time.

 

[hobelim]

If you believe in the scriptures instead of the spoken word of God being delivered by a true saint, you will be deceived of the Truth.

Nonsense. Anyone claiming that scripture is not the word of God and that only they are a true saint, even the Christ himself, and that only they speak for God, and that the law of God as recorded in Leviticus should be set aside is a liar, even the very definition of the serpent.

Now this age can end because we understand God's invisible kingdom and learned that He planned on destroying this world to end this first age.

again more bullshit from a liar.


When scripture speaks of the destruction of the world when the stars will fall from the sky, the mountains will crumble to the sea, the valleys being lifted up, etc.. it is not a prophecy about cosmic catastrophe but a prophecy about social upheaval and change when conmen like yourself will be removed from the high and lofty places they have made for themselves...through the same type of deceit that murders the minds of anyone foolish enough to be swindled by your laughable and pretentious claim of being a true saint.

The blind will remain blind until this world is destroyed. Then the blind will be free to see for the first time.

So, the blind have to wait until the world is destroyed before they will see for the first time? Very convenient, for you but not for the blind....


How is it that Jesus was able to give sight to the blind and you cannot?

 

[theword]

Nonsense. Anyone claiming that scripture is not the word of God and that only they are a true saint, even the Christ himself, and that only they speak for God, and that the law of God as recorded in Leviticus should be set aside is a liar, even the very definition of the serpent.






again more bullshit from a liar.


When scripture speaks of the destruction of the world when the stars will fall from the sky, the mountains will crumble to the sea, the valleys being lifted up, etc.. it is not a prophecy about cosmic catastrophe but a prophecy about social upheaval and change when conmen like yourself will be removed from the high and lofty places they have made for themselves...through the same type of deceit that murders the minds of anyone foolish enough to be swindled by your laughable and pretentious claim of being a true saint.

The blind will remain blind until this world is destroyed. Then the blind will be free to see for the first time.

So, the blind have to wait until the world is destroyed before they will see for the first time? Very convenient, for you but not for the blind....


How is it that Jesus was able to give sight to the blind and you cannot?

Like I told you before, if you believe in the scriptures, you will surely be deceived of the Truth who was the Creator of good and evil, also.

 

[hobelim]

The blind will remain blind until this world is destroyed. Then the blind will be free to see for the first time.

So, the blind have to wait until the world is destroyed before they will see for the first time? Very convenient, for you but not for the blind....


How is it that Jesus was able to give sight to the blind and you cannot?

Like I told you before, if you believe in the scriptures, you will surely be deceived of the Truth who was the Creator of good and evil, also.

my that's very scary.

where did you get all your information about the end of the world, Christ, God, good, evil and sin if not by reading scripture?

have you been surely been deceived of the Truth?

Do you think that God is responsible for the evil in the world perpetuated by people like you who make up their own bullshit stories about scripture?


That's what you expect people to believe?

and then what?

Can I bring you some tea, your majesty?

BTW, Where is that foal of a she ass that you are supposed to be riding?

 

[theword]

So, the blind have to wait until the world is destroyed before they will see for the first time? Very convenient, for you but not for the blind....


How is it that Jesus was able to give sight to the blind and you cannot?

Like I told you before, if you believe in the scriptures, you will surely be deceived of the Truth who was the Creator of good and evil, also.

my that's very scary.

where did you get all your information about the end of the world, Christ, God, good, evil and sin if not by reading scripture?

have you been surely been deceived of the Truth?

Do you think that God is responsible for the evil in the world perpetuated by people like you who make up their own bullshit stories about scripture?


That's what you expect people to believe?

and then what?

Can I bring you some tea, your majesty?

BTW, Where is that foal of a she ass that you are supposed to be riding?

Genesis 3
24: He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

The symbolic cherubim and flaming sword is difficult for a sinner to understand. To a saint, everything is understood.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Like I told you before, if you believe in the scriptures, you will surely be deceived of the Truth who was the Creator of good and evil, also.

my that's very scary.

where did you get all your information about the end of the world, Christ, God, good, evil and sin if not by reading scripture?

have you been surely been deceived of the Truth?

Do you think that God is responsible for the evil in the world perpetuated by people like you who make up their own bullshit stories about scripture?


That's what you expect people to believe?

and then what?

Can I bring you some tea, your majesty?

BTW, Where is that foal of a she ass that you are supposed to be riding?

Genesis 3
24: He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

The symbolic cherubim and flaming sword is difficult for a sinner to understand. To a saint, everything is understood.

It seems to me the small flock 144,000 which are the saints chosen from mankind are the ones that will rule with Christ as kings over the large crowd that is to many to number. Which are the meek that inherit the earth.

 

[hobelim]

Genesis 3
24: He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

The symbolic cherubim and flaming sword is difficult for a sinner to understand. To a saint, everything is understood.

I thought you just said that if a person believes scripture they will be deceived of the Truth.

Doesn't that mean if someone listens to your bullshit interpretation of scripture they will be deceived? What is the point of trying to convince rational people about something as irrational as your preposterous claim of being the Christ based on you saying stupid things??

Have you been believing scripture?



By the way, to better understand what that sword actually is that guards the way to the tree of life you should probably read Jeremiah 25:15;


"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."



"He who leads into captivity, shall go into captivity; he who lifts the sword to kill is bound by the sword to be killed."

This is the truth, the very truth;

You died in the very day you first reached out your hand to lift the sword to murder others by teaching them to set aside the laws of God and have since descended into the netherworld where you remain to this day rotting slowly while tormented day and night by the nightmares of cosmic catastrophe caused by your irrational departure from reality.

If you ever hope to recover, you can begin by admitting that you are just as or more confused than anyone who ever fell for your false witness, a fraud because you claim to see.

 

[theword]

my that's very scary.

where did you get all your information about the end of the world, Christ, God, good, evil and sin if not by reading scripture?

have you been surely been deceived of the Truth?

Do you think that God is responsible for the evil in the world perpetuated by people like you who make up their own bullshit stories about scripture?


That's what you expect people to believe?

and then what?

Can I bring you some tea, your majesty?

BTW, Where is that foal of a she ass that you are supposed to be riding?

Genesis 3
24: He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

The symbolic cherubim and flaming sword is difficult for a sinner to understand. To a saint, everything is understood.

It seems to me the small flock 144,000 which are the saints chosen from mankind are the ones that will rule with Christ as kings over the large crowd that is to many to number. Which are the meek that inherit the earth.

144,000 and 7,000 are only symbolic terms that our Creator uses in the prophecies. It makes no difference to us saints how many of us there are.

We won't remember this age after our flesh dies so we won't have anything to compare with. Although, we saints will wake up in our new servant bodies for God to use to speak the new language into existence that will contain new information for all God's people to share with each other.

We'll all understand who our Creator is and won't question the life He gives us to experience. No one will feel oppressed by a government or religion that divided all God's people during this age.

Life in our earthly Paradise will be peaceful but in our individual dreams and visions, God will give us unique experiences that can't be imagined in our world today. However, by watching all the various movies that God created for us to watch during this age, we can understand the variety of life we'll experience for eternity in our new flesh.

 

[hobelim]

our creator uses in the prophecies. It makes no difference to us saints how many of us there are.

we won't remember...our flesh dies....we won't have anything.... we saints....in our new servant bodies ....

we'll all understand...the life he gives us....


Life in our earthly .....but in our individual .....god will give us ....can't be imagined in our world

however, by watching all the various movies that god created for us to watch during this age, we can understand the variety of life we'll experience for eternity in our new flesh.

how many of you are there?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Genesis 3
24: He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

The symbolic cherubim and flaming sword is difficult for a sinner to understand. To a saint, everything is understood.

I thought you just said that if a person believes scripture they will be deceived of the Truth.

Doesn't that mean if someone listens to your bullshit interpretation of scripture they will be deceived? What is the point of trying to convince rational people about something as irrational as your preposterous claim of being the Christ based on you saying stupid things??

Have you been believing scripture?



By the way, to better understand what that sword actually is that guards the way to the tree of life you should probably read Jeremiah 25:15;


"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."



"He who leads into captivity, shall go into captivity; he who lifts the sword to kill is bound by the sword to be killed."

This is the truth, the very truth;

You died in the very day you first reached out your hand to lift the sword to murder others by teaching them to set aside the laws of God and have since descended into the netherworld where you remain to this day rotting slowly while tormented day and night by the nightmares of cosmic catastrophe caused by your irrational departure from reality.

If you ever hope to recover, you can begin by admitting that you are just as or more confused than anyone who ever fell for your false witness, a fraud because you claim to see.

But both of you claim to know the "Truth" and that the other is wrong. By my recollection there was a challenge in the OT between the false prophets and the one true prophet. How do we go about arranging a similar contest today?

 

[hobelim]

But both of you claim to know the "Truth" and that the other is wrong. By my recollection there was a challenge in the OT between the false prophets and the one true prophet. How do we go about arranging a similar contest today?

LOL... Great idea, but what do you think has already been happening?

What did you have in mind? casting out demons, fire from the sky, or the resurrection of the dead?

Do you really need further proof that 'the word' has already been proven a false prophet?



say it ain't so....