Kerry: ‘Israel Can Either Be Jewish or Democratic — It Cannot Be Both’

[ColonelAngus]

No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.

What is your solution?

 

[WelfareQueen]

No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.

What is your solution?

Clearly he does not support a two State solution if he does not feel Israel has the right to exist as a Nation. I am waiting to see if he also supports the genocide of the Jewish people like Hamas and the overwhelming majority of the Palestinian people.

 

[ColonelAngus]

No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.

What is your solution?

Clearly he does not support a two State solution if he does not feel Israel has the right to exist as a Nation. I am waiting to see if he also supports the genocide of the Jewish people like Hamas and the overwhelming majority of the Palestinians people.

That is where the Palestiniams lose me. I often hear of them wanting to exterminate the Jews, but I do not hear that from Jews about the Palestinians.

If you are against genocide, you are likely on the correct side.

 

[montelatici]

More Zionist propaganda.

Really?

'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.



How about this:

If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel -

True?


Leaves you with only two choices: admit it's correct and there was no 'propaganda' in the video....

....or lie.

The video was absolute propaganda. It's a false dichotomy and a propagandistic meme. No one is asking the Israelis to lay down their arms. The world is asking that the Israelis stop the oppression of millions of people. If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them, why would Israel disappear?

1. I asked this:
'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.

You didn't, so I'll conclude that you can't because it is totally true.

2. "If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them,..."
Actually, I spent a few weeks in Israel this summer...and a great deal of time at Christian Holy Sites
None of what you claim is true.

3. "...the land that was stolen from them."
Now...watch as I rip one who is one a new one:
No land was stolen from the Arabs:
"Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858,
there were no official deeds to attest to a man's legal title to a parcel
of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title— and
usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine's farmers was a
precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families,
clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes...


When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four
factors should be borne in mind:

(1) Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to
absentee owners. (Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for
example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern
portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the
richest banker in Syria, Sursuk "the Greek".)


(2) Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously
because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason,
regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of
the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): "The Arab charge that
the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land
cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange
groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it
was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier
sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the re-
sources or training needed to develop the land." (1937)


(3) While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve
unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise
as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for
rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the
Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the
standard of living of all the inhabitants.


(4) The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which
improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated
by Arab farmers.


(According to the
Turkish census of 1875, by that time Jews already constituted a
majority of the population of Jerusalem and by 1905 comprised
two-thirds of its citizens. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1910
gives the population figure as 60,000, of whom 40,000 were Jews.)"
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf


King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:


 "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.
 8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.

"According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine.
 9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay." 32 Crist, Raymond E. "Land for the Fellahin, VIII: Land Tenure and Land Use in the Near East".American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 18, No. 4 (Jul., 1959). 415

•
"The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity." Kretzmer, David. The Legal Status of the Arabs in Israel. Boulder: Westview Press, 1990. 50.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession


What is clear is that you are a lying windbag, and no more than a mere garden variety Antisemite.

That's true, isn't it.

Posting Zionist propaganda does not make it a fact, here are the facts from source documents:

Jews owned less than 6% of the land in 1943. Per the UN commissioned Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry for the Survey of Palestine.

View attachment 104208


A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

And from the Partition resolution itself. UN A/364 The Arabs still owned 85% of the land:

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. The provisions of the land transfer regulations of 1940, which gave effect to the 1939 White Paper policy, have severely restricted the Jewish efforts to acquire new land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

But the Torah states God made a convent with the Jewish People. It is their land according to God. Or should only Muslim religious beliefs be respected?

Please be succinct and clear in your response. Thank you.

No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.

The question was not qualified. Does the Jewish State of Israel have the right to exist? You clearly state no.

So do you agree since Israel does not have a right to exist that Hamas is correct and "The Jews should be driven into the sea?" Obviously there can be no two State solution in your view, but do you support the genocide of the Jewish people as well?

No, I believe that the whole of Palestine should be a secular state where the native Muslims and Christians should have rights equal to the Jews who migrated there from Europe and other lands during and after the Mandate.

 

[ColonelAngus]

Really?

'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.



How about this:

If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel -

True?


Leaves you with only two choices: admit it's correct and there was no 'propaganda' in the video....

....or lie.

The video was absolute propaganda. It's a false dichotomy and a propagandistic meme. No one is asking the Israelis to lay down their arms. The world is asking that the Israelis stop the oppression of millions of people. If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them, why would Israel disappear?

1. I asked this:
'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.

You didn't, so I'll conclude that you can't because it is totally true.

2. "If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them,..."
Actually, I spent a few weeks in Israel this summer...and a great deal of time at Christian Holy Sites
None of what you claim is true.

3. "...the land that was stolen from them."
Now...watch as I rip one who is one a new one:
No land was stolen from the Arabs:
"Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858,
there were no official deeds to attest to a man's legal title to a parcel
of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title— and
usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine's farmers was a
precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families,
clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes...


When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four
factors should be borne in mind:

(1) Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to
absentee owners. (Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for
example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern
portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the
richest banker in Syria, Sursuk "the Greek".)


(2) Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously
because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason,
regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of
the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): "The Arab charge that
the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land
cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange
groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it
was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier
sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the re-
sources or training needed to develop the land." (1937)


(3) While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve
unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise
as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for
rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the
Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the
standard of living of all the inhabitants.


(4) The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which
improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated
by Arab farmers.


(According to the
Turkish census of 1875, by that time Jews already constituted a
majority of the population of Jerusalem and by 1905 comprised
two-thirds of its citizens. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1910
gives the population figure as 60,000, of whom 40,000 were Jews.)"
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf


King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:


 "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.
 8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.

"According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine.
 9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay." 32 Crist, Raymond E. "Land for the Fellahin, VIII: Land Tenure and Land Use in the Near East".American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 18, No. 4 (Jul., 1959). 415

•
"The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity." Kretzmer, David. The Legal Status of the Arabs in Israel. Boulder: Westview Press, 1990. 50.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession


What is clear is that you are a lying windbag, and no more than a mere garden variety Antisemite.

That's true, isn't it.

Posting Zionist propaganda does not make it a fact, here are the facts from source documents:

Jews owned less than 6% of the land in 1943. Per the UN commissioned Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry for the Survey of Palestine.

View attachment 104208


A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

And from the Partition resolution itself. UN A/364 The Arabs still owned 85% of the land:

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. The provisions of the land transfer regulations of 1940, which gave effect to the 1939 White Paper policy, have severely restricted the Jewish efforts to acquire new land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

But the Torah states God made a convent with the Jewish People. It is their land according to God. Or should only Muslim religious beliefs be respected?

Please be succinct and clear in your response. Thank you.

No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.

The question was not qualified. Does the Jewish State of Israel have the right to exist? You clearly state no.

So do you agree since Israel does not have a right to exist that Hamas is correct and "The Jews should be driven into the sea?" Obviously there can be no two State solution in your view, but do you support the genocide of the Jewish people as well?

No, I believe that the whole of Palestine should be a secular state where the native Muslims and Christians should have rights equal to the Jews who migrated there from Europe and other lands during and after the Mandate.

Wasn't this offered to Arafat and he turned it down?

 

[WelfareQueen]

Really?

'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.



How about this:

If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel -

True?


Leaves you with only two choices: admit it's correct and there was no 'propaganda' in the video....

....or lie.

The video was absolute propaganda. It's a false dichotomy and a propagandistic meme. No one is asking the Israelis to lay down their arms. The world is asking that the Israelis stop the oppression of millions of people. If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them, why would Israel disappear?

1. I asked this:
'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.

You didn't, so I'll conclude that you can't because it is totally true.

2. "If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them,..."
Actually, I spent a few weeks in Israel this summer...and a great deal of time at Christian Holy Sites
None of what you claim is true.

3. "...the land that was stolen from them."
Now...watch as I rip one who is one a new one:
No land was stolen from the Arabs:
"Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858,
there were no official deeds to attest to a man's legal title to a parcel
of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title— and
usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine's farmers was a
precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families,
clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes...


When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four
factors should be borne in mind:

(1) Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to
absentee owners. (Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for
example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern
portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the
richest banker in Syria, Sursuk "the Greek".)


(2) Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously
because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason,
regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of
the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): "The Arab charge that
the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land
cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange
groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it
was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier
sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the re-
sources or training needed to develop the land." (1937)


(3) While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve
unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise
as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for
rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the
Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the
standard of living of all the inhabitants.


(4) The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which
improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated
by Arab farmers.


(According to the
Turkish census of 1875, by that time Jews already constituted a
majority of the population of Jerusalem and by 1905 comprised
two-thirds of its citizens. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1910
gives the population figure as 60,000, of whom 40,000 were Jews.)"
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf


King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:


 "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.
 8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.

"According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine.
 9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay." 32 Crist, Raymond E. "Land for the Fellahin, VIII: Land Tenure and Land Use in the Near East".American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 18, No. 4 (Jul., 1959). 415

•
"The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity." Kretzmer, David. The Legal Status of the Arabs in Israel. Boulder: Westview Press, 1990. 50.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession


What is clear is that you are a lying windbag, and no more than a mere garden variety Antisemite.

That's true, isn't it.

Posting Zionist propaganda does not make it a fact, here are the facts from source documents:

Jews owned less than 6% of the land in 1943. Per the UN commissioned Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry for the Survey of Palestine.

View attachment 104208


A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

And from the Partition resolution itself. UN A/364 The Arabs still owned 85% of the land:

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. The provisions of the land transfer regulations of 1940, which gave effect to the 1939 White Paper policy, have severely restricted the Jewish efforts to acquire new land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

But the Torah states God made a convent with the Jewish People. It is their land according to God. Or should only Muslim religious beliefs be respected?

Please be succinct and clear in your response. Thank you.

No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.

The question was not qualified. Does the Jewish State of Israel have the right to exist? You clearly state no.

So do you agree since Israel does not have a right to exist that Hamas is correct and "The Jews should be driven into the sea?" Obviously there can be no two State solution in your view, but do you support the genocide of the Jewish people as well?

No, I believe that the whole of Palestine should be a secular state where the native Muslims and Christians should have rights equal to the Jews who migrated there from Europe and other lands during and after the Mandate.

So you believe in one secular State. Okay. But the Arabs have clearly stated they will never accept a non-Muslim secular state.

Is their any Arab Nation on Earth that is secular? Any precedent you can point to?

 

[montelatici]

The video was absolute propaganda. It's a false dichotomy and a propagandistic meme. No one is asking the Israelis to lay down their arms. The world is asking that the Israelis stop the oppression of millions of people. If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them, why would Israel disappear?

1. I asked this:
'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.

You didn't, so I'll conclude that you can't because it is totally true.

2. "If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them,..."
Actually, I spent a few weeks in Israel this summer...and a great deal of time at Christian Holy Sites
None of what you claim is true.

3. "...the land that was stolen from them."
Now...watch as I rip one who is one a new one:
No land was stolen from the Arabs:
"Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858,
there were no official deeds to attest to a man's legal title to a parcel
of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title— and
usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine's farmers was a
precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families,
clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes...


When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four
factors should be borne in mind:

(1) Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to
absentee owners. (Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for
example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern
portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the
richest banker in Syria, Sursuk "the Greek".)


(2) Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously
because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason,
regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of
the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): "The Arab charge that
the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land
cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange
groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it
was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier
sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the re-
sources or training needed to develop the land." (1937)


(3) While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve
unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise
as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for
rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the
Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the
standard of living of all the inhabitants.


(4) The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which
improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated
by Arab farmers.


(According to the
Turkish census of 1875, by that time Jews already constituted a
majority of the population of Jerusalem and by 1905 comprised
two-thirds of its citizens. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1910
gives the population figure as 60,000, of whom 40,000 were Jews.)"
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf


King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:


 "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.
 8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.

"According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine.
 9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay." 32 Crist, Raymond E. "Land for the Fellahin, VIII: Land Tenure and Land Use in the Near East".American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 18, No. 4 (Jul., 1959). 415

•
"The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity." Kretzmer, David. The Legal Status of the Arabs in Israel. Boulder: Westview Press, 1990. 50.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession


What is clear is that you are a lying windbag, and no more than a mere garden variety Antisemite.

That's true, isn't it.

Posting Zionist propaganda does not make it a fact, here are the facts from source documents:

Jews owned less than 6% of the land in 1943. Per the UN commissioned Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry for the Survey of Palestine.

View attachment 104208


A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

And from the Partition resolution itself. UN A/364 The Arabs still owned 85% of the land:

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. The provisions of the land transfer regulations of 1940, which gave effect to the 1939 White Paper policy, have severely restricted the Jewish efforts to acquire new land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

But the Torah states God made a convent with the Jewish People. It is their land according to God. Or should only Muslim religious beliefs be respected?

Please be succinct and clear in your response. Thank you.

No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.

The question was not qualified. Does the Jewish State of Israel have the right to exist? You clearly state no.

So do you agree since Israel does not have a right to exist that Hamas is correct and "The Jews should be driven into the sea?" Obviously there can be no two State solution in your view, but do you support the genocide of the Jewish people as well?

No, I believe that the whole of Palestine should be a secular state where the native Muslims and Christians should have rights equal to the Jews who migrated there from Europe and other lands during and after the Mandate.

So you believe in one secular State. Okay. But the Arabs have clearly stated they will never accept a non-Muslim secular state.

Is their any Arab Nation on Earth that is secular? Any precedent you can point to?

Of course there are. Lebanon, Morocco, Tunisia etc. The Palestinians have always stated that it would be a secular state. The Christian Palestinians would not have had it otherwise.

 

[WelfareQueen]

1. I asked this:
'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.

You didn't, so I'll conclude that you can't because it is totally true.

2. "If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them,..."
Actually, I spent a few weeks in Israel this summer...and a great deal of time at Christian Holy Sites
None of what you claim is true.

3. "...the land that was stolen from them."
Now...watch as I rip one who is one a new one:
No land was stolen from the Arabs:
"Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858,
there were no official deeds to attest to a man's legal title to a parcel
of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title— and
usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine's farmers was a
precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families,
clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes...


When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four
factors should be borne in mind:

(1) Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to
absentee owners. (Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for
example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern
portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the
richest banker in Syria, Sursuk "the Greek".)


(2) Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously
because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason,
regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of
the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): "The Arab charge that
the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land
cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange
groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it
was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier
sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the re-
sources or training needed to develop the land." (1937)


(3) While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve
unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise
as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for
rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the
Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the
standard of living of all the inhabitants.


(4) The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which
improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated
by Arab farmers.


(According to the
Turkish census of 1875, by that time Jews already constituted a
majority of the population of Jerusalem and by 1905 comprised
two-thirds of its citizens. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1910
gives the population figure as 60,000, of whom 40,000 were Jews.)"
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf


King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:


 "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.
 8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.

"According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine.
 9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay." 32 Crist, Raymond E. "Land for the Fellahin, VIII: Land Tenure and Land Use in the Near East".American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 18, No. 4 (Jul., 1959). 415

•
"The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity." Kretzmer, David. The Legal Status of the Arabs in Israel. Boulder: Westview Press, 1990. 50.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession


What is clear is that you are a lying windbag, and no more than a mere garden variety Antisemite.

That's true, isn't it.

Posting Zionist propaganda does not make it a fact, here are the facts from source documents:

Jews owned less than 6% of the land in 1943. Per the UN commissioned Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry for the Survey of Palestine.

View attachment 104208


A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

And from the Partition resolution itself. UN A/364 The Arabs still owned 85% of the land:

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. The provisions of the land transfer regulations of 1940, which gave effect to the 1939 White Paper policy, have severely restricted the Jewish efforts to acquire new land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

But the Torah states God made a convent with the Jewish People. It is their land according to God. Or should only Muslim religious beliefs be respected?

Please be succinct and clear in your response. Thank you.

No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.

The question was not qualified. Does the Jewish State of Israel have the right to exist? You clearly state no.

So do you agree since Israel does not have a right to exist that Hamas is correct and "The Jews should be driven into the sea?" Obviously there can be no two State solution in your view, but do you support the genocide of the Jewish people as well?

No, I believe that the whole of Palestine should be a secular state where the native Muslims and Christians should have rights equal to the Jews who migrated there from Europe and other lands during and after the Mandate.

So you believe in one secular State. Okay. But the Arabs have clearly stated they will never accept a non-Muslim secular state.

Is their any Arab Nation on Earth that is secular? Any precedent you can point to?

Of course there are. Lebanon, Morocco, Tunisia etc. The Palestinians have always stated that it would be a secular state. The Christian Palestinians would not have had it otherwise.

Lebanon....Morrocco.....Tunisa.....secular....? Okay......yeah.....the Palestinians will not insist on universal Islam and Sharia Law?

Maybe the Jews could get that in writing......

 

[ColonelAngus]

1. I asked this:
'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.

You didn't, so I'll conclude that you can't because it is totally true.

2. "If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them,..."
Actually, I spent a few weeks in Israel this summer...and a great deal of time at Christian Holy Sites
None of what you claim is true.

3. "...the land that was stolen from them."
Now...watch as I rip one who is one a new one:
No land was stolen from the Arabs:
"Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858,
there were no official deeds to attest to a man's legal title to a parcel
of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title— and
usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine's farmers was a
precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families,
clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes...


When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four
factors should be borne in mind:

(1) Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to
absentee owners. (Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for
example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern
portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the
richest banker in Syria, Sursuk "the Greek".)


(2) Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously
because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason,
regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of
the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): "The Arab charge that
the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land
cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange
groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it
was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier
sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the re-
sources or training needed to develop the land." (1937)


(3) While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve
unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise
as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for
rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the
Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the
standard of living of all the inhabitants.


(4) The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which
improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated
by Arab farmers.


(According to the
Turkish census of 1875, by that time Jews already constituted a
majority of the population of Jerusalem and by 1905 comprised
two-thirds of its citizens. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1910
gives the population figure as 60,000, of whom 40,000 were Jews.)"
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf


King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:


 "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.
 8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.

"According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine.
 9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay." 32 Crist, Raymond E. "Land for the Fellahin, VIII: Land Tenure and Land Use in the Near East".American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 18, No. 4 (Jul., 1959). 415

•
"The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity." Kretzmer, David. The Legal Status of the Arabs in Israel. Boulder: Westview Press, 1990. 50.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession


What is clear is that you are a lying windbag, and no more than a mere garden variety Antisemite.

That's true, isn't it.

Posting Zionist propaganda does not make it a fact, here are the facts from source documents:

Jews owned less than 6% of the land in 1943. Per the UN commissioned Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry for the Survey of Palestine.

View attachment 104208


A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

And from the Partition resolution itself. UN A/364 The Arabs still owned 85% of the land:

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. The provisions of the land transfer regulations of 1940, which gave effect to the 1939 White Paper policy, have severely restricted the Jewish efforts to acquire new land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

But the Torah states God made a convent with the Jewish People. It is their land according to God. Or should only Muslim religious beliefs be respected?

Please be succinct and clear in your response. Thank you.

No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.

The question was not qualified. Does the Jewish State of Israel have the right to exist? You clearly state no.

So do you agree since Israel does not have a right to exist that Hamas is correct and "The Jews should be driven into the sea?" Obviously there can be no two State solution in your view, but do you support the genocide of the Jewish people as well?

No, I believe that the whole of Palestine should be a secular state where the native Muslims and Christians should have rights equal to the Jews who migrated there from Europe and other lands during and after the Mandate.

So you believe in one secular State. Okay. But the Arabs have clearly stated they will never accept a non-Muslim secular state.

Is their any Arab Nation on Earth that is secular? Any precedent you can point to?

Of course there are. Lebanon, Morocco, Tunisia etc. The Palestinians have always stated that it would be a secular state. The Christian Palestinians would not have had it otherwise.

Why did Arafat turn down the deal in 2000?

 

[Shusha]

I'm not familiar with the Adalah site. I was thinking of the absentee landowner laws that make it easy for palestinian property to be confiscated, and laws which make it easy for Jews to reclaim property, but more difficult for Palestinians. Laws which allow Jews to more easily bring in Jewish spouses but not Palestinians.

Ah, well, the more I look into laws about land ownership, the more I realize how very complicated it is. I'm not convinced there are laws which make it easy for Arab land to be confiscated which are related specifically to the owner being Arab. Its WAY more complex than that.

As for the family reunification and immigration, you would have to admit this is a very very difficult situation, with people (enemies) within Israel stabbing innocents and running them over with cars and amassing weapons to be used against Jewish Israelis. What do you do in that sort of situation? We all know that the morally correct answer is to not judge people based on their ethnicity. But ... we also have to address reality. Just how DO you distinguish between those who would move to Israel and be wonderful additions to the cultural fabric there and those whose cultural ideology would do Israel and her people harm? And how do we do this in the middle of a conflict?!

A democracy needs to have equality and equal representation for all it's people. Laws need to treat people equally.

We agree.

If there is preferential treatment of a certain religious group - through which the state is defined, is it truly a democracy?

I think its important to differentiate between the Jewish people as an national/ethnic/cultural group and as a religious group.

Is it not possible to have a religious state where there is actually no preferential treatment of a certain religious group? What kind of preferential treatment would you mean here? Why is it not possible to have a state where everyone's religion is treated equally? [/quote]

Right now the ambiguous status of the Palestinians - the "Occupied Territories" all work against Israel being truely democratic.

Possibly. But much of this is a result of conflict, NOT of discrimination. Checkpoints, as an example, are a direct result of conflict and violence. They are not a feature of discrimination. The Gaza blockade is a direct result of conflict and violence. Not discrimination.

The status of Palestinians outside Israel bears no reflection on Israel.

I can not think of a single successful state that is both religious in nature and democratic. I'm not sure it's possible and one reason is that every major religion feels it's own followers are somehow elevated. Religious states have always ended up discriminating.

All states have discrimination to some extent or another. Those which do not usually do not because they are homogeneous. I also disagree with you that every major religion feels its followers are somehow elevated.

 

[rylah]

Really?

'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.



How about this:

If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel -

True?


Leaves you with only two choices: admit it's correct and there was no 'propaganda' in the video....

....or lie.

The video was absolute propaganda. It's a false dichotomy and a propagandistic meme. No one is asking the Israelis to lay down their arms. The world is asking that the Israelis stop the oppression of millions of people. If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them, why would Israel disappear?

1. I asked this:
'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.

You didn't, so I'll conclude that you can't because it is totally true.

2. "If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them,..."
Actually, I spent a few weeks in Israel this summer...and a great deal of time at Christian Holy Sites
None of what you claim is true.

3. "...the land that was stolen from them."
Now...watch as I rip one who is one a new one:
No land was stolen from the Arabs:
"Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858,
there were no official deeds to attest to a man's legal title to a parcel
of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title— and
usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine's farmers was a
precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families,
clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes...


When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four
factors should be borne in mind:

(1) Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to
absentee owners. (Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for
example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern
portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the
richest banker in Syria, Sursuk "the Greek".)


(2) Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously
because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason,
regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of
the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): "The Arab charge that
the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land
cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange
groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it
was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier
sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the re-
sources or training needed to develop the land." (1937)


(3) While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve
unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise
as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for
rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the
Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the
standard of living of all the inhabitants.


(4) The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which
improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated
by Arab farmers.


(According to the
Turkish census of 1875, by that time Jews already constituted a
majority of the population of Jerusalem and by 1905 comprised
two-thirds of its citizens. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1910
gives the population figure as 60,000, of whom 40,000 were Jews.)"
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf


King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:


 "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.
 8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.

"According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine.
 9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay." 32 Crist, Raymond E. "Land for the Fellahin, VIII: Land Tenure and Land Use in the Near East".American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 18, No. 4 (Jul., 1959). 415

•
"The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity." Kretzmer, David. The Legal Status of the Arabs in Israel. Boulder: Westview Press, 1990. 50.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession


What is clear is that you are a lying windbag, and no more than a mere garden variety Antisemite.

That's true, isn't it.

Posting Zionist propaganda does not make it a fact, here are the facts from source documents:

Jews owned less than 6% of the land in 1943. Per the UN commissioned Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry for the Survey of Palestine.

View attachment 104208


A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

And from the Partition resolution itself. UN A/364 The Arabs still owned 85% of the land:

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. The provisions of the land transfer regulations of 1940, which gave effect to the 1939 White Paper policy, have severely restricted the Jewish efforts to acquire new land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

But the Torah states God made a convent with the Jewish People. It is their land according to God. Or should only Muslim religious beliefs be respected?

Please be succinct and clear in your response. Thank you.

No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.

The question was not qualified. Does the Jewish State of Israel have the right to exist? You clearly state no.

So do you agree since Israel does not have a right to exist that Hamas is correct and "The Jews should be driven into the sea?" Obviously there can be no two State solution in your view, but do you support the genocide of the Jewish people as well?

No, I believe that the whole of Palestine should be a secular state where the native Muslims and Christians should have rights equal to the Jews who migrated there from Europe and other lands during and after the Mandate.

This is what Monte actually believes:

"Yes, Jerusalem should be 100% Christian. We have the power, why should we allow non-believers to have any authority in Jerusalem? Why do we need to be fair or accommodating? Throw out the troublemakers. Deus Vult."

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right - Arafat grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory...

Kerry’s Speech Reference to 1947 UN Partition Resolution Omits Decades of Palestinian Rejectionism
December 29, 2016 – In his keynote Mideast speech Wednesday, Secretary of State John Kerry said that both Israelis and Palestinians had “incorporated into” their respective “foundational documents” a 1947 U.N. General Assembly resolution that divided the territory between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River into a Jewish state and an Arab one.

While perhaps technically accurate, the bald assertion provides far from the full picture of the two sides’ response to UNGA resolution 181, also known as the Partition Plan, nearly seven decades ago. While Jewish leaders accepted the measure, Arab and Palestinian leaders angrily rejected it. “Representatives of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Yemen, four of the six Arab member states, announced that they would not be bound by the Assembly’s decision and walked determinedly out of the Assembly Hall at Flushing Meadow,” the New York Times reported the following day. “The Egyptian and Lebanese delegates were silent but walked out, too.”

Immediately after the State of Israel was declared the following spring, five Arab armies attacked it in what head of the Arab League described as “a war of annihilation.” The effort failed, but at the cost of the lives of some 4,000 Israeli soldiers and 2,000 civilians, amounting to one percent of the then population. In Wednesday’s speech, Kerry did refer to the fact that the Palestinians and the Arab world did not recognize the newly-declared state of Israel, and that the fledgling state “had to fight for its life.” (“Palestinians also suffered terribly in the 1948 war,” he added.)

But Kerry did not explicitly say that the Palestinians – backed by the Arab world – had also at that point rejected the UNGA resolution, thereby effectively denying themselves statehood from the outset. “Both Israel and the PLO referenced resolution 181 in their respective declarations of independence,” he said. Later in the address, Kerry added that “resolution 181 is incorporated into the foundational documents of both the Israelis and Palestinians.”

Israel in its May 14, 1948 “Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel” did indeed invoke resolution 181: “We … by virtue of our natural and historic right and on the strength of the resolution of the United Nations General Assembly, hereby declare the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel.”

MORE

See also:

Rev. Graham: For Obama Administration 'Not to Stand With Israel is Shameful'
December 28, 2016 | Commenting on the Obama administration's decision not to veto a United Nations resolution demanding that Israel stop building Jewish settlements on land it captured in the 1967 war, Pastor Franklin Graham said he was "disappointed" that the U.S. government showed such "contempt" for Israel, and added that for the United States "not to stand with Israel is shameful."

In a Dec. 26 post on Facebook, Rev. Graham wrote, "Israel is America's closest ally in the Middle East and the only true democracy in that region of the world." "I'm disappointed that the current administration in Washington seems to have such contempt for this nation and its elected leaders," said Rev. Graham. "For the U.S. not to stand with Israel is shameful," he said. On Friday, Dec. 23, the United Nations passed a resolution demanding that Israel stop building settlements on land it captured during the 1967 war. The resolution passed because the United States, usually a defender of Israel at the U.N., did not step in as a "permanent member" and veto the measure. Many critics have called this a betrayal of Israel.

Senator Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) said in a statement, “President Obama is personally responsible for this anti-Israel resolution. His diplomats secretly coordinated the vote, yet he doesn’t even have the courage of his own convictions to vote for it." "This cowardly, disgraceful action cements President Obama’s richly deserved legacy as the most anti-Israel president in American history,” said Sen. Cotton. Even Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), a strong supporter of President Obama, said, “Whatever one’s views are on settlements, anyone who cares about the future of Israel and peace in the region knows that the U.N., with its onesidedness, is exactly the wrong forum to bring about peace." President-elect Donald Trump tweeted, "As to the U.N., things will be different after Jan. 20th."

In the six-day war of 1967, Israel was attacked by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon. This attack was also supported by Algeria, Kuwait, Libya, Morocco, Pakistan, the PLO, Sudan and Tunisia. Despite the overwhelming number of troops and weaponry deployed against Israel, the Jewish state won the war and captured territory previously held by the Arabs, including the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.

Rev. Graham: For Obama Administration 'Not to Stand With Israel is Shameful'

Related:

Dershowitz on Obama: 'He Hurt America So Badly'
December 27, 2016 -- Harvard Law Professor Emeritus Alan Dershowitz says that although he and many other liberal Democrats supported President Obama's domestic policies, Obama “will go down in history as one of the worst foreign policy presidents ever.”

“He will go down in history, President Obama, as one of the worst foreign policy presidents ever,” Dershowitz said during a Monday interview on Fox & Friends. “What he did to Syria, and what he was partly responsible for happening in Aleppo, creating a vacuum for Russia. … “Look, I supported his domestic policy. I liked him on Supreme Court appointments. But he created a terrible conflict for people, many like me liberal Democrats who support his domestic policy, but think he was an appalling--appalling--president when it comes to foreign policy. He hurt America so badly."

Dershowitz was particularly upset with Obama for abstaining from a vote on a recent United Nations Security Council resolution condemning Israel for constructing settlements on land it has occupied since the 1967 Six-Day War. In doing so, Dershowitz said, Obama “stabbed” the longtime U.S. ally “in the back”. Obama “called me into the Oval Office before the election and he said to me: ‘Alan, I want your support. And I have to tell you, I will always have Israel’s back.’ “I didn’t realize what he meant is that he would have its back to stab them in the back. And he just stabbed them in the back," Dershowitz said.

Dershowitz also accused Obama of pulling a “bait and switch” by telling the American public “that ‘this is all about the settlements deep in the West Bank’. “And yet he allowed his representatives to the UN to abstain (which is really [a vote] for) a resolution that says Jews can’t pray at the Western Wall, Jewish students can’t go to Hebrew University, Jewish and Arab patients can’t go to Hadassah Hospital, Jews can’t live in the Jewish quarter where they’ve lived for thousands of years,” he said. “And he’s gonna say: ‘Whoops, I didn’t mean that.’ Well, read the resolution. You’re a lawyer. You went to Harvard Law School!” Dershowitz exclaimed.

“And this will make peace much more difficult to achieve because the Palestinians will now say: ‘We can get a state through the UN, we can get a state through the BDS movement,’ this will encourage that, ‘we can get a state through the International Criminal Court,’ this will encourage that, ‘we don’t have to negotiate, we don’t have to make painful compromises.' “That’s not the way policy should be made, to get even in the lame duck period when there are no checks and balances, and you don’t have to worry about the next election. It’s the most undemocratic thing a president can do – to tie the hands of his successor during the lame duck period,” he continued. “The president has deliberately tied the hands of his successor. It’s going to make it much harder for President Trump to bring back peace.”

Dershowitz on Obama: 'He Hurt America So Badly'

 

[Lipush]

Arab Israeli's have more freedoms and rights in Israel, then they would in any of the other Middle East countries where there aren't any representational forms of government. But all that does beg the question: do they have true equality? I would say no. There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.

Then please, give us examples of what you mean. From what I see here, there is alot of mumbo jumbo from Anti Israelis but little is it covered by actual facts or examples.

 

[Lipush]

Arab Israeli's have more freedoms and rights in Israel, then they would in any of the other Middle East countries where there aren't any representational forms of government. But all that does beg the question: do they have true equality? I would say no. There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.

Arab Israelis are completely equal to Jewish Israelis under the law, but in all countries that are issues of discrimination between the majority and minorities. In the US, African Americans, Hispanic Americans, women, etc. all have equal rights under the law and all complain of discrimination. The same is true in Israeli.

The Adalah database of 50 discriminatory laws in Israel -

See more at: The Adalah database of 50 discriminatory laws in Israel

I looked at that list. And the amount of inaccuracies is sky high.

Here is a tiny example:

"There is a law against organizations denying Israel as a Jewish state".

That is only HALF true. The law goes againt Israel's basic values. Which means, it goes againt those denying Israel is both Jewish *and* democratic state.

Like Arab organizations who deny Israel being Jewiah won't be accepted, the movement of 'Kach', who was dipped with racism against Arabs, was declaired illegal.

So Adalah is telling half truth regarding that. But again.. Not surprising.

 

[Lipush]

There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.

There are no Israeli laws that I am aware of which specifically favor Jews, as a function of the law itself. (There is discrimination without a doubt). If you would wish to discuss this further, please don't refer me to the Adalah site and their "50 laws". I'm already very familiar with that site and not impressed. If you would like to discuss a specific law, which you feel is designed to discriminate against Arabs or Muslims/Christians, please provide the text of the law.

I'm not familiar with the Adalah site. I was thinking of the absentee landowner laws that make it easy for palestinian property to be confiscated, and laws which make it easy for Jews to reclaim property, but more difficult for Palestinians. Laws which allow Jews to more easily bring in Jewish spouses but not Palestinians.

And depending on how one defines a "democracy" and a "religious state", I don't see how the two are incompatible. Thoughts on why you would think that is?

A democracy needs to have equality and equal representation for all it's people. Laws need to treat people equally. If there is preferential treatment of a certain religious group - through which the state is defined, is it truly a democracy? Right now the ambiguous status of the Palestinians - the "Occupied Territories" all work against Israel being truely democratic.

I can not think of a single successful state that is both religious in nature and democratic. I'm not sure it's possible and one reason is that every major religion feels it's own followers are somehow elevated. Religious states have always ended up discriminating.

Oh, fair enough.

But Israel is not a religious state. Thoae who think that have no idea what they're talking about.

 

[Lipush]

Really?

'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.



How about this:

If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel -

True?


Leaves you with only two choices: admit it's correct and there was no 'propaganda' in the video....

....or lie.

The video was absolute propaganda. It's a false dichotomy and a propagandistic meme. No one is asking the Israelis to lay down their arms. The world is asking that the Israelis stop the oppression of millions of people. If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them, why would Israel disappear?

1. I asked this:
'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.

You didn't, so I'll conclude that you can't because it is totally true.

2. "If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them,..."
Actually, I spent a few weeks in Israel this summer...and a great deal of time at Christian Holy Sites
None of what you claim is true.

3. "...the land that was stolen from them."
Now...watch as I rip one who is one a new one:
No land was stolen from the Arabs:
"Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858,
there were no official deeds to attest to a man's legal title to a parcel
of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title— and
usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine's farmers was a
precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families,
clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes...


When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four
factors should be borne in mind:

(1) Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to
absentee owners. (Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for
example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern
portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the
richest banker in Syria, Sursuk "the Greek".)


(2) Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously
because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason,
regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of
the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): "The Arab charge that
the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land
cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange
groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it
was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier
sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the re-
sources or training needed to develop the land." (1937)


(3) While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve
unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise
as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for
rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the
Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the
standard of living of all the inhabitants.


(4) The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which
improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated
by Arab farmers.


(According to the
Turkish census of 1875, by that time Jews already constituted a
majority of the population of Jerusalem and by 1905 comprised
two-thirds of its citizens. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1910
gives the population figure as 60,000, of whom 40,000 were Jews.)"
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf


King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:


 "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.
 8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.

"According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine.
 9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay." 32 Crist, Raymond E. "Land for the Fellahin, VIII: Land Tenure and Land Use in the Near East".American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 18, No. 4 (Jul., 1959). 415

•
"The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity." Kretzmer, David. The Legal Status of the Arabs in Israel. Boulder: Westview Press, 1990. 50.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession


What is clear is that you are a lying windbag, and no more than a mere garden variety Antisemite.

That's true, isn't it.

Posting Zionist propaganda does not make it a fact, here are the facts from source documents:

Jews owned less than 6% of the land in 1943. Per the UN commissioned Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry for the Survey of Palestine.

View attachment 104208


A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

And from the Partition resolution itself. UN A/364 The Arabs still owned 85% of the land:

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. The provisions of the land transfer regulations of 1940, which gave effect to the 1939 White Paper policy, have severely restricted the Jewish efforts to acquire new land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

But the Torah states God made a convent with the Jewish People. It is their land according to God. Or should only Muslim religious beliefs be respected?

Please be succinct and clear in your response. Thank you.

No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.

The question was not qualified. Does the Jewish State of Israel have the right to exist? You clearly state no.

So do you agree since Israel does not have a right to exist that Hamas is correct and "The Jews should be driven into the sea?" Obviously there can be no two State solution in your view, but do you support the genocide of the Jewish people as well?

No, I believe that the whole of Palestine should be a secular state where the native Muslims and Christians should have rights equal to the Jews who migrated there from Europe and other lands during and after the Mandate.

What about the Jews who were there BEFORE the British Mandate?

 

[easyt65]

VIDEO: John Kerry sticks his tongue out dozens of times during anti-Israel speech - The American Mirror

"Somebody get John Kerry a glass of water!

During the Secretary of State’s browbeating Israel speech this morning, he stuck his tongue out, often bizarrely, dozens times during the roughly 73-minute address."


'Water' hell - the dude is 'MENTAL'!

 

[dannyboys]

Who wouldn't LOVE to play poker against Kerry?
The Stolen Valor POS coward traitor 'tells' everytime he's about to tell a lie.

 

[saveliberty]

Miley Cyrus does that, twerking may be next.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Further proof Kerry is a window licking libturd