Kerry: ‘Israel Can Either Be Jewish or Democratic — It Cannot Be Both’

Kerry: ‘Israel Can Either Be Jewish or Democratic — It Cannot Be Both’

Kerry is such a political hack....just like Obama.

Anti-Semitic admin......who knew?
In fact, Israel is both Jewish and democratic, which means Kerry can either be quiet or be an Idiot.

But if Israel annexes the West Bank, then it will incorporate 2.5 million more Arabs.
No, the Palestinians will continue to be citizens of the Palestinian Authority, not Israeli citizens. A sovereign Palestinian state is simply not viable because there is no political entity among them that can credibly offer peace to Israel, so they can enjoy most of the rights of a sovereign state, but not quite all of them. The idiot Kerry and his idiot boss say there must be one state or two states, but that is not true. There can be one state, Israel, and an autonomously ruled Palestinian territory under Israeli sovereignty, which is the status quo and which remains the only viable arrangement for the foreseeable future.

Of course, if Israel formally annexes all of Judea and Samaria, there would be political and diplomatic problems, but whether it is all annexed or only parts of it are annexed, the present arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians is how it is going to be for the foreseeable future.

So a continued Apartheid state.
Not at all. Israel has offered to recognize a Palestinian state if it could credibly offer peace to Israel, but the Palestinian leadership continues to refuse, so the status quo continues because the Palestinians are unwilling to take on the responsibilities of statehood.
 
Arab Israeli's have more freedoms and rights in Israel, then they would in any of the other Middle East countries where there aren't any representational forms of government. But all that does beg the question: do they have true equality? I would say no. There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.
Arab Israelis are completely equal to Jewish Israelis under the law, but in all countries that are issues of discrimination between the majority and minorities. In the US, African Americans, Hispanic Americans, women, etc. all have equal rights under the law and all complain of discrimination. The same is true in Israeli.

The Adalah database of 50 discriminatory laws in Israel -

See more at: The Adalah database of 50 discriminatory laws in Israel
And if you had read it and researched their claims, you would have learned it is all bullshit.
 
Arab Israeli's have more freedoms and rights in Israel, then they would in any of the other Middle East countries where there aren't any representational forms of government. But all that does beg the question: do they have true equality? I would say no. There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.
Arab Israelis are completely equal to Jewish Israelis under the law, but in all countries that are issues of discrimination between the majority and minorities. In the US, African Americans, Hispanic Americans, women, etc. all have equal rights under the law and all complain of discrimination. The same is true in Israeli.

The Adalah database of 50 discriminatory laws in Israel -

See more at: The Adalah database of 50 discriminatory laws in Israel
And if you had read it and researched their claims, you would have learned it is all bullshit.

Just fact.
 
Arab Israeli's have more freedoms and rights in Israel, then they would in any of the other Middle East countries where there aren't any representational forms of government. But all that does beg the question: do they have true equality? I would say no. There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.
Arab Israelis are completely equal to Jewish Israelis under the law, but in all countries that are issues of discrimination between the majority and minorities. In the US, African Americans, Hispanic Americans, women, etc. all have equal rights under the law and all complain of discrimination. The same is true in Israeli.

The Adalah database of 50 discriminatory laws in Israel -

See more at: The Adalah database of 50 discriminatory laws in Israel
And if you had read it and researched their claims, you would have learned it is all bullshit.

Just fact.
lol A word you seem incapable of understanding.
 
There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.

There are no Israeli laws that I am aware of which specifically favor Jews, as a function of the law itself. (There is discrimination without a doubt). If you would wish to discuss this further, please don't refer me to the Adalah site and their "50 laws". I'm already very familiar with that site and not impressed. If you would like to discuss a specific law, which you feel is designed to discriminate against Arabs or Muslims/Christians, please provide the text of the law.

And depending on how one defines a "democracy" and a "religious state", I don't see how the two are incompatible. Thoughts on why you would think that is?
 
Saying Israel can be either Jewish or a democracy, but not both is the equivalent to saying Scotland can be Scottish or a democracy, but can't be both.
 
If there is freedom of religion in Israel, there shouldn't be any issues for Muslims to live there.


It doesn't work the other way around too well.
 
John Kerry Rebukes Israel and Calls Settlements a Threat to Peace (Video)



Israel is a small country of 8 million people, only 6 million of them Jews, and its annual gross domestic product, at around $300 billion, is similar to that of Denmark and Ireland (both less populous countries, so Israel is poorer than they per capita). Nobody much really cares in world affairs if Denmark gets in a snit about something, though to be fair the Danes haven’t really gotten in many snits in recent centuries.

I suppose center-right Danish PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen is capable of making noise about issues he cares about, but I haven’t ever even once seen him on American television.

One difference between Denmark and Israel is that the US Israel lobbies have extorted from the American people something on the order of $124 billion in aid for Israel, and President Barack Obama just authorized another $38 bn for Tel Aviv over the next ten years. Israel thus has an enormous military arsenal and a stockpile of several hundred nuclear warheads. The figures do not count all the indirect ways the US aids the Israeli economy. Although the Israel lobbies maintain that the US gets security help from Israel in the Middle East in return, actually Israel has sat out the Gulf War, the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, the recent struggle against Daesh/ ISIL in Syria and Iraq, etc., etc. It is only fair to say that the US would not have wanted Israeli participation, because its reputation is so poisonous in the region that such participation would do more harm than good. But nevertheless, if Israel couldn’t help in any of these crises, it isn’t actually very useful. Worse, Israel’s often creepy policies against the stateless Palestinians cause security problems for the United States.

Israeli Ministers Throw Trump-Like Tantrums After U.N. Security Council Slam


Well your post has no fucking credibility what so ever when it claimed that Israel purposely stayed out of the gulf wars..



We fucking told them to stay the hell out of it.



.
 
John Kerry Rebukes Israel and Calls Settlements a Threat to Peace (Video)



Israel is a small country of 8 million people, only 6 million of them Jews, and its annual gross domestic product, at around $300 billion, is similar to that of Denmark and Ireland (both less populous countries, so Israel is poorer than they per capita). Nobody much really cares in world affairs if Denmark gets in a snit about something, though to be fair the Danes haven’t really gotten in many snits in recent centuries.

I suppose center-right Danish PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen is capable of making noise about issues he cares about, but I haven’t ever even once seen him on American television.

One difference between Denmark and Israel is that the US Israel lobbies have extorted from the American people something on the order of $124 billion in aid for Israel, and President Barack Obama just authorized another $38 bn for Tel Aviv over the next ten years. Israel thus has an enormous military arsenal and a stockpile of several hundred nuclear warheads. The figures do not count all the indirect ways the US aids the Israeli economy. Although the Israel lobbies maintain that the US gets security help from Israel in the Middle East in return, actually Israel has sat out the Gulf War, the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, the recent struggle against Daesh/ ISIL in Syria and Iraq, etc., etc. It is only fair to say that the US would not have wanted Israeli participation, because its reputation is so poisonous in the region that such participation would do more harm than good. But nevertheless, if Israel couldn’t help in any of these crises, it isn’t actually very useful. Worse, Israel’s often creepy policies against the stateless Palestinians cause security problems for the United States.

Israeli Ministers Throw Trump-Like Tantrums After U.N. Security Council Slam


Well your post has no fucking credibility what so ever when it claimed that Israel purposely stayed out of the gulf wars..



We fucking told them to stay the hell out of it.



.

Exactly.

No one wanted Israel to participate in any of the Gulf Wars because it would have made it a Jew/Muslim Holy War.

The previous poster is an utter jackass to imply that Israel pussed out in military support of the USA.

Snowflakes dont like facts.
 
John Kerry Rebukes Israel and Calls Settlements a Threat to Peace (Video)



Israel is a small country of 8 million people, only 6 million of them Jews, and its annual gross domestic product, at around $300 billion, is similar to that of Denmark and Ireland (both less populous countries, so Israel is poorer than they per capita). Nobody much really cares in world affairs if Denmark gets in a snit about something, though to be fair the Danes haven’t really gotten in many snits in recent centuries.

I suppose center-right Danish PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen is capable of making noise about issues he cares about, but I haven’t ever even once seen him on American television.

One difference between Denmark and Israel is that the US Israel lobbies have extorted from the American people something on the order of $124 billion in aid for Israel, and President Barack Obama just authorized another $38 bn for Tel Aviv over the next ten years. Israel thus has an enormous military arsenal and a stockpile of several hundred nuclear warheads. The figures do not count all the indirect ways the US aids the Israeli economy. Although the Israel lobbies maintain that the US gets security help from Israel in the Middle East in return, actually Israel has sat out the Gulf War, the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, the recent struggle against Daesh/ ISIL in Syria and Iraq, etc., etc. It is only fair to say that the US would not have wanted Israeli participation, because its reputation is so poisonous in the region that such participation would do more harm than good. But nevertheless, if Israel couldn’t help in any of these crises, it isn’t actually very useful. Worse, Israel’s often creepy policies against the stateless Palestinians cause security problems for the United States.

Israeli Ministers Throw Trump-Like Tantrums After U.N. Security Council Slam


Well your post has no fucking credibility what so ever when it claimed that Israel purposely stayed out of the gulf wars..



We fucking told them to stay the hell out of it.



.

Exactly.

No one wanted Israel to participate in any of the Gulf Wars because it would have made it a Jew/Muslim Holy War.

The previous poster is an utter jackass to imply that Israel pussed out in military support of the USA.

Snowflakes dont like facts.


Yeah and want to deny what we seen, Iraq was launching scuds at them and we told Israel don't retaliate, we will take care of them...


I always thought that was pretty good restraint by them.



.
 
There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.

There are no Israeli laws that I am aware of which specifically favor Jews, as a function of the law itself. (There is discrimination without a doubt). If you would wish to discuss this further, please don't refer me to the Adalah site and their "50 laws". I'm already very familiar with that site and not impressed. If you would like to discuss a specific law, which you feel is designed to discriminate against Arabs or Muslims/Christians, please provide the text of the law.

I'm not familiar with the Adalah site. I was thinking of the absentee landowner laws that make it easy for palestinian property to be confiscated, and laws which make it easy for Jews to reclaim property, but more difficult for Palestinians. Laws which allow Jews to more easily bring in Jewish spouses but not Palestinians.

And depending on how one defines a "democracy" and a "religious state", I don't see how the two are incompatible. Thoughts on why you would think that is?

A democracy needs to have equality and equal representation for all it's people. Laws need to treat people equally. If there is preferential treatment of a certain religious group - through which the state is defined, is it truly a democracy? Right now the ambiguous status of the Palestinians - the "Occupied Territories" all work against Israel being truely democratic.

I can not think of a single successful state that is both religious in nature and democratic. I'm not sure it's possible and one reason is that every major religion feels it's own followers are somehow elevated. Religious states have always ended up discriminating.
 
There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.

There are no Israeli laws that I am aware of which specifically favor Jews, as a function of the law itself. (There is discrimination without a doubt). If you would wish to discuss this further, please don't refer me to the Adalah site and their "50 laws". I'm already very familiar with that site and not impressed. If you would like to discuss a specific law, which you feel is designed to discriminate against Arabs or Muslims/Christians, please provide the text of the law.

I'm not familiar with the Adalah site. I was thinking of the absentee landowner laws that make it easy for palestinian property to be confiscated, and laws which make it easy for Jews to reclaim property, but more difficult for Palestinians. Laws which allow Jews to more easily bring in Jewish spouses but not Palestinians.

And depending on how one defines a "democracy" and a "religious state", I don't see how the two are incompatible. Thoughts on why you would think that is?

A democracy needs to have equality and equal representation for all it's people. Laws need to treat people equally. If there is preferential treatment of a certain religious group - through which the state is defined, is it truly a democracy? Right now the ambiguous status of the Palestinians - the "Occupied Territories" all work against Israel being truely democratic.

I can not think of a single successful state that is both religious in nature and democratic. I'm not sure it's possible and one reason is that every major religion feels it's own followers are somehow elevated. Religious states have always ended up discriminating.


Wouldn't the Asian countries count like Japan? Or is that more spiritual?.. Idk I never followed that stuff.


.
 
There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.

There are no Israeli laws that I am aware of which specifically favor Jews, as a function of the law itself. (There is discrimination without a doubt). If you would wish to discuss this further, please don't refer me to the Adalah site and their "50 laws". I'm already very familiar with that site and not impressed. If you would like to discuss a specific law, which you feel is designed to discriminate against Arabs or Muslims/Christians, please provide the text of the law.

I'm not familiar with the Adalah site. I was thinking of the absentee landowner laws that make it easy for palestinian property to be confiscated, and laws which make it easy for Jews to reclaim property, but more difficult for Palestinians. Laws which allow Jews to more easily bring in Jewish spouses but not Palestinians.

And depending on how one defines a "democracy" and a "religious state", I don't see how the two are incompatible. Thoughts on why you would think that is?

A democracy needs to have equality and equal representation for all it's people. Laws need to treat people equally. If there is preferential treatment of a certain religious group - through which the state is defined, is it truly a democracy? Right now the ambiguous status of the Palestinians - the "Occupied Territories" all work against Israel being truely democratic.

I can not think of a single successful state that is both religious in nature and democratic. I'm not sure it's possible and one reason is that every major religion feels it's own followers are somehow elevated. Religious states have always ended up discriminating.


Wouldn't the Asian countries count like Japan? Or is that more spiritual?.. Idk I never followed that stuff.


.

I don't know...I thought Japan was fairly secular and religion was regarded as extremely private.
 
There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.

There are no Israeli laws that I am aware of which specifically favor Jews, as a function of the law itself. (There is discrimination without a doubt). If you would wish to discuss this further, please don't refer me to the Adalah site and their "50 laws". I'm already very familiar with that site and not impressed. If you would like to discuss a specific law, which you feel is designed to discriminate against Arabs or Muslims/Christians, please provide the text of the law.

I'm not familiar with the Adalah site. I was thinking of the absentee landowner laws that make it easy for palestinian property to be confiscated, and laws which make it easy for Jews to reclaim property, but more difficult for Palestinians. Laws which allow Jews to more easily bring in Jewish spouses but not Palestinians.

And depending on how one defines a "democracy" and a "religious state", I don't see how the two are incompatible. Thoughts on why you would think that is?

A democracy needs to have equality and equal representation for all it's people. Laws need to treat people equally. If there is preferential treatment of a certain religious group - through which the state is defined, is it truly a democracy? Right now the ambiguous status of the Palestinians - the "Occupied Territories" all work against Israel being truely democratic.

I can not think of a single successful state that is both religious in nature and democratic. I'm not sure it's possible and one reason is that every major religion feels it's own followers are somehow elevated. Religious states have always ended up discriminating.

America was very successful, and as little as 50 years ago quite religious.
 
There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.

There are no Israeli laws that I am aware of which specifically favor Jews, as a function of the law itself. (There is discrimination without a doubt). If you would wish to discuss this further, please don't refer me to the Adalah site and their "50 laws". I'm already very familiar with that site and not impressed. If you would like to discuss a specific law, which you feel is designed to discriminate against Arabs or Muslims/Christians, please provide the text of the law.

I'm not familiar with the Adalah site. I was thinking of the absentee landowner laws that make it easy for palestinian property to be confiscated, and laws which make it easy for Jews to reclaim property, but more difficult for Palestinians. Laws which allow Jews to more easily bring in Jewish spouses but not Palestinians.

And depending on how one defines a "democracy" and a "religious state", I don't see how the two are incompatible. Thoughts on why you would think that is?

A democracy needs to have equality and equal representation for all it's people. Laws need to treat people equally. If there is preferential treatment of a certain religious group - through which the state is defined, is it truly a democracy? Right now the ambiguous status of the Palestinians - the "Occupied Territories" all work against Israel being truely democratic.

I can not think of a single successful state that is both religious in nature and democratic. I'm not sure it's possible and one reason is that every major religion feels it's own followers are somehow elevated. Religious states have always ended up discriminating.


Wouldn't the Asian countries count like Japan? Or is that more spiritual?.. Idk I never followed that stuff.


.

I don't know...I thought Japan was fairly secular and religion was regarded as extremely private.


Now that you mention it, I worked for a Japanese company for 10 years became real good friends with a few coworkers, been to their homes, been to Japan for two months and yeah nothing was ever said.


.
 
More Zionist propaganda.


Really?

'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.



How about this:

If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel -

True?


Leaves you with only two choices: admit it's correct and there was no 'propaganda' in the video....

....or lie.

The video was absolute propaganda. It's a false dichotomy and a propagandistic meme. No one is asking the Israelis to lay down their arms. The world is asking that the Israelis stop the oppression of millions of people. If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them, why would Israel disappear?


So you support Israel's right to exist and acknowledge the Jewish People's claims to the Holy Land based on their sacred Torah?

Please be succinct and clear in your response. Thank you. :)
 
More Zionist propaganda.


Really?

'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.



How about this:

If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel -

True?


Leaves you with only two choices: admit it's correct and there was no 'propaganda' in the video....

....or lie.

The video was absolute propaganda. It's a false dichotomy and a propagandistic meme. No one is asking the Israelis to lay down their arms. The world is asking that the Israelis stop the oppression of millions of people. If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them, why would Israel disappear?

1. I asked this:
'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.

You didn't, so I'll conclude that you can't because it is totally true.

2. "If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them,..."
Actually, I spent a few weeks in Israel this summer...and a great deal of time at Christian Holy Sites
None of what you claim is true.

3. "...the land that was stolen from them."
Now...watch as I rip one who is one a new one:
No land was stolen from the Arabs:
"Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858,
there were no official deeds to attest to a man's legal title to a parcel
of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title— and
usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine's farmers was a
precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families,
clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes...


When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four
factors should be borne in mind:

(1) Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to
absentee owners.
(Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for
example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern
portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the
richest banker in Syria, Sursuk "the Greek".)


(2) Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously
because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason,
regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of
the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): "The Arab charge that
the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land
cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange
groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it
was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier
sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the re-
sources or training needed to develop the land." (1937)


(3) While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve
unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise
as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for
rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the
Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the
standard of living of all the inhabitants.


(4) The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which
improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated
by Arab farmers.


(According to the
Turkish census of 1875, by that time Jews already constituted a
majority of the population of Jerusalem and by 1905 comprised
two-thirds of its citizens. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1910
gives the population figure as 60,000, of whom 40,000 were Jews.)"
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf


King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:


 "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.
 8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.

"According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine.
 9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay." 32 Crist, Raymond E. "Land for the Fellahin, VIII: Land Tenure and Land Use in the Near East".American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 18, No. 4 (Jul., 1959). 415


"The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity." Kretzmer, David. The Legal Status of the Arabs in Israel. Boulder: Westview Press, 1990. 50.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession


What is clear is that you are a lying windbag, and no more than a mere garden variety Antisemite.

That's true, isn't it.


Posting Zionist propaganda does not make it a fact, here are the facts from source documents:

Jews owned less than 6% of the land in 1943. Per the UN commissioned Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry for the Survey of Palestine.

View attachment 104208


A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

And from the Partition resolution itself. UN A/364 The Arabs still owned 85% of the land:

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. The provisions of the land transfer regulations of 1940, which gave effect to the 1939 White Paper policy, have severely restricted the Jewish efforts to acquire new land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947


But the Torah states God made a convenent with the Jewish People. It is their land according to God. Or should only Muslim religious beliefs be respected?

Please be succinct and clear in your response. Thank you.
 
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No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.
 
No, I certainly do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish theocracy. And I do not believe that people that people that practice Judaism have the right to expel native non-Jews from their lands.


The question was not qualified. Does the Jewish State of Israel have the right to exist? You clearly state no.

So do you agree since Israel does not have a right to exist that Hamas is correct and "The Jews should be driven into the sea?" Obviously there can be no two State solution in your view, but do you support the genocide of the Jewish people as well?
 

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