Joe B's take on the Midterms

[GMCGeneral]

Uh, no, guy. There is nothing about Zombie Jesus in the Constitution.

If the people decide it wants the government to provide Cradle to Grave benefits, then that's what we'll get. The people have already decided that. Even conservatives are perfectly fine with social security, Medicare, unemployment benefits, veteran benefits and other middle class entitlements.

Then it is the people who are morons. They have zero clue as to what big government will do. Just look at your failed utopia of the USSR which you want the US to be like.

 

[Indeependent]

Uh, no, guy. There is nothing about Zombie Jesus in the Constitution.

If the people decide it wants the government to provide Cradle to Grave benefits, then that's what we'll get. The people have already decided that. Even conservatives are perfectly fine with social security, Medicare, unemployment benefits, veteran benefits and other middle class entitlements.

Central Control is always appealing until it becomes the Kings and the Peasants and neither one of us is going to be one of the Kings.

 

[Indeependent]

9) Youth Came through for the Democrats - This is a very good sign for the future. Youth turnout was at a record high for a midterm. Not just because the the Democrats stand for things that young people care about (Student Debt, Reproductive choice), but because they have grown up in a generation where homophobia, transphobia and racism are kind of unacceptable. The Kids are all right.

You are lost when you think today's youth even wants to know what goes on outside of, hopefully, getting a paycheck.

 

[JoeB131]

Then it is the people who are morons. They have zero clue as to what big government will do. Just look at your failed utopia of the USSR which you want the US to be like.

The USSR fell because 200 million non-Russians didn't want to be lorded over by 140 million Russians. It's amazing they held it together as long as they did, it was the world's last empire.

Central Control is always appealing until it becomes the Kings and the Peasants and neither one of us is going to be one of the Kings.

Frankly, as long as I am getting my benefits, I don't want the headache of being King. Our relationship to government should always be, does the government's actions benefit us. Providing services, maintaining the economy, etc.

You are lost when you think today's youth even wants to know what goes on outside of, hopefully, getting a paycheck.

Actually, they looked at it pragmatically. The Republicans want the banks to keep screwing them on student loans and force them to be parents before they are ready. And they said, "no thanks"

 

[Indeependent]

The USSR fell because 200 million non-Russians didn't want to be lorded over by 140 million Russians. It's amazing they held it together as long as they did, it was the world's last empire.



Frankly, as long as I am getting my benefits, I don't want the headache of being King. Our relationship to government should always be, does the government's actions benefit us. Providing services, maintaining the economy, etc.



Actually, they looked at it pragmatically. The Republicans want the banks to keep screwing them on student loans and force them to be parents before they are ready. And they said, "no thanks"

It's much better when Democrats give my tax money to students.
Not that accomplished much with your life.

 

[JoeB131]

It's much better when Democrats give my tax money to students.
Not that accomplished much with your life.

I'm perfectly happy with my accomplishments in life. I'm at the top of my field, my business is going well, I have a great lady in my life, and I live in a nice home.

 

[Indeependent]

I'm perfectly happy with my accomplishments in life. I'm at the top of my field, my business is going well, I have a great lady in my life, and I live in a nice home.

Best resume writer in the US...what an accomplishment.
I can't imagine what your woman looks like.

 

[JoeB131]

Best resume writer in the US...what an accomplishment.
I can't imagine what your woman looks like.

Well, given your racist attitudes towards Asians, she'd probably horrify you.

 

[Indeependent]

Well, given your racist attitudes towards Asians, she'd probably horrify you.

I hate to break it to you but you're no Indiana Jones, you're more like Burl Ives without the beard.
I will presume your entire life posted here is a fantasy.

 

[JoeB131]

I hate to break it to you but you're no Indiana Jones, you're more like Burl Ives without the beard.
I will presume your entire life posted here is a fantasy.

Anything that makes you feel better, buddy.

 

[Indeependent]

Anything that makes you feel better, buddy.

Looking at you makes me feel like Superman.

 

[martybegan]

No, it was an outright human rights issue.

If the Kleins had refused service because the couple in question were interracial, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

No, it isn't. It's a free exercise issue.

 

[JoeB131]

No, it isn't. It's a free exercise issue.

Nope, it's really not.

Free exercise is not an excuse to violate other laws. Otherwise, I want to be able to cut out the hearts of my enemies with an obsidian knife to show my fealty to the Great Plumed Serpent God.

Of course, such an interpretation of free exercise is absurd. No one would go along with that.

It's equally absurd to refuse someone service if they are gay, even if your interpretation of the bible says so. (An interpretation more and more churches are distancing themselves from.)

For a very long time, it was illegal to marry someone of another race in this country, because religious practice held that God was against race mixing. If an interracial couple came into Klein's store, would he have the right to refuse them service?

 

[martybegan]

Nope, it's really not.

Free exercise is not an excuse to violate other laws. Otherwise, I want to be able to cut out the hearts of my enemies with an obsidian knife to show my fealty to the Great Plumed Serpent God.

Of course, such an interpretation of free exercise is absurd. No one would go along with that.

It's equally absurd to refuse someone service if they are gay, even if your interpretation of the bible says so. (An interpretation more and more churches are distancing themselves from.)

For a very long time, it was illegal to marry someone of another race in this country, because religious practice held that God was against race mixing. If an interracial couple came into Klein's store, would he have the right to refuse them service?

Murder isn't the same as someone's butthurt defining whether you can be a baker or not.

They are not denying point of sale services to anyone, they just don't want to provide a contracted service for a specific event.

Race and sexuality are not the same, despite progressive attempts to equalize them.

 

[JoeB131]

Murder isn't the same as someone's butthurt defining whether you can be a baker or not.

The point is, they are both laws that would apply if NO religious motive was involved.

Of course, it's absurd to allow murder for religious reasons (Despite a long history of religious murder!) It's equally absurd to allow discrimination that would otherwise be illegal if no religion was involved.

They are not denying point of sale services to anyone, they just don't want to provide a contracted service for a specific event.

Because of their bigotry. If they are providing the SAME service for other events and customers, then they really don't have a leg to stand on.

Again, if they were denying service to an interracial couple for religious reasons, we would not be having this conversation.

Race and sexuality are not the same, despite progressive attempts to equalize them.

I would argue that they are, as no one chooses their race or sexuality. Religion, on the other hand, is a choice. You God-botherers CHOOSE to believe in your Bronze Age Superstitions no matter how much science you are exposed to.

 

[martybegan]

The point is, they are both laws that would apply if NO religious motive was involved.

Of course, it's absurd to allow murder for religious reasons (Despite a long history of religious murder!) It's equally absurd to allow discrimination that would otherwise be illegal if no religion was involved.



Because of their bigotry. If they are providing the SAME service for other events and customers, then they really don't have a leg to stand on.

Again, if they were denying service to an interracial couple for religious reasons, we would not be having this conversation.




I would argue that they are, as no one chooses their race or sexuality. Religion, on the other hand, is a choice. You God-botherers CHOOSE to believe in your Bronze Age Superstitions no matter how much science you are exposed to.

They have free exercise to stand on, which isn't limited to the clergy.

Would you force clergy to perform Same Sex Marriages because they do traditional marriages?

So bisexuality doesn't exist?

 

[JoeB131]

They have free exercise to stand on, which isn't limited to the clergy.

Well, no, they don't, because we don't allow religion to be an excuse for breaking other laws.

You are kind of talking in circles, but let's agree that we wouldn't allow an atheist baker to discriminate against gay people because he hates them queers!

Nor would we allow a religious baker to come up with some bizarre interpretation of the bible like race mixing is against God's plan (which actually was the default position of many churches before 1969, but I digress.)

So by that logic, a baker's religious opinion is not enough to rationalize breaking the law in providing a non-religious product.

Would you force clergy to perform Same Sex Marriages because they do traditional marriages?

I'd force clergy to fucking apologize to the rest of us for lying about imaginary sky pixies, but that's just me.

Obviously, though the Clergy can only perform services within their faith. There's no real religious significance to a wedding cake. Heck, it's not even a "Christian" thing, it's something that came down from paganism, where the Romans would make cakes in the shape of genitalia to encourage fertility.

So bisexuality doesn't exist?

Sure it does... but it's not a choice, it's an orientation.

 

[martybegan]

Well, no, they don't, because we don't allow religion to be an excuse for breaking other laws.

You are kind of talking in circles, but let's agree that we wouldn't allow an atheist baker to discriminate against gay people because he hates them queers!

Nor would we allow a religious baker to come up with some bizarre interpretation of the bible like race mixing is against God's plan (which actually was the default position of many churches before 1969, but I digress.)

So by that logic, a baker's religious opinion is not enough to rationalize breaking the law in providing a non-religious product.



I'd force clergy to fucking apologize to the rest of us for lying about imaginary sky pixies, but that's just me.

Obviously, though the Clergy can only perform services within their faith. There's no real religious significance to a wedding cake. Heck, it's not even a "Christian" thing, it's something that came down from paganism, where the Romans would make cakes in the shape of genitalia to encourage fertility.



Sure it does... but it's not a choice, it's an orientation.

Laws that violate free exercise are unconstitutional, so you running to fuh fuh fuh the law fuh fuh fuh doesn't work.

Most major religions find homosexuality sinful, since we have free exercise we don't force people to associate with something they find sinful if they don't want to. PA laws were made to fight systemic discrimination as a symptom of the attempt to eliminate blacks from economic and political power. They weren't made to fuck over a businessperson over butthurt.

Anti-religious asshole bigot being an asshole, what a fucking surprise.

Free exercise isn't limited to the clergy, or in a church/mosque/temple or whatever.

It doesn't matter what significance you see, it's the significance the person being forced to do something they don't want to do sees.

 

[JoeB131]

Laws that violate free exercise are unconstitutional, so you running to fuh fuh fuh the law fuh fuh fuh doesn't work.

Except, again, tell it to the people who want to smoke pot or peyote as part of their rituals. Oh, wait, no, you can't. That's still illegal.

Most major religions find homosexuality sinful, since we have free exercise we don't force people to associate with something they find sinful if they don't want to. PA laws were made to fight systemic discrimination as a symptom of the attempt to eliminate blacks from economic and political power. They weren't made to fuck over a businessperson over butthurt.

So why stop at wedding cakes? By your logic, businesses should be able to fire gay people at will, refuse them housing, etc. And why stop with gays? Once you say it's okay to discriminate based on your bronze age superstitions, you open the doors to a lot of stuff.

Or simple solution. YOu are free to exercise your bigoted religion... your business is not.

Anti-religious asshole bigot being an asshole, what a fucking surprise.

Not at all. In fact, we SHOULD apply the consumer protection laws to religions just like any other business. Make them prove their god can get you into heaven, if that's what they are going to claim.

Free exercise isn't limited to the clergy, or in a church/mosque/temple or whatever.

It doesn't matter what significance you see, it's the significance the person being forced to do something they don't want to do sees.

And if they want to stay in business, they get with the program.

 

[martybegan]

Except, again, tell it to the people who want to smoke pot or peyote as part of their rituals. Oh, wait, no, you can't. That's still illegal.



So why stop at wedding cakes? By your logic, businesses should be able to fire gay people at will, refuse them housing, etc. And why stop with gays? Once you say it's okay to discriminate based on your bronze age superstitions, you open the doors to a lot of stuff.

Or simple solution. YOu are free to exercise your bigoted religion... your business is not.



Not at all. In fact, we SHOULD apply the consumer protection laws to religions just like any other business. Make them prove their god can get you into heaven, if that's what they are going to claim.



And if they want to stay in business, they get with the program.

They should be able to.

Argumentum ad absurdum. Life is about drawing lines, except for progressives who want to win 100% of everything.


If your business isn't allowed free exercise, you aren't allowed free exercise. Of course it has to be balanced with compelling needs, and sorry, someone being butthurt over a cake isn't compelling compared to shutting down someone's livelihood.

Again, free exercise. you don't like it change the constitution.


Nope. Sorry your petty hatreds and old man crankiness doesn't override others rights.