Joe B's take on the Midterms

[JoeB131]

They should be able to.

Argumentum ad absurdum. Life is about drawing lines, except for progressives who want to win 100% of everything.

You are right, it is about drawing lines. Letting someone sacrifice people to Queztacoatl or Satan- ridiculous.

Letting someone smoke pot because they are a Rastafarian? Meh, they aren't really hurting anyone, so why not?

So being a homophobic bigot and using religion as an excuse when society has moved beyond that bullshit, probably falls somewhere in between.

If your business isn't allowed free exercise, you aren't allowed free exercise. Of course it has to be balanced with compelling needs, and sorry, someone being butthurt over a cake isn't compelling compared to shutting down someone's livelihood.

Not at all.

First and foremost, why should this "Right" merely apply to business owners? Why not the wage slaves... then we could have THIS kind of fun at the checkout line.

Stamping out homophobia is a compelling need. Just like stamping out racism is a compelling need. You squeal about the last little bit of bigotry you can still hold on to, hiding it under a bible, when most of the churches are distancing themselves from it.

Shit, even the MORMONS started supporting the Marriage Equality Bill! THE MORMONS! What is the world coming to.

 

[martybegan]

You are right, it is about drawing lines. Letting someone sacrifice people to Queztacoatl or Satan- ridiculous.

Letting someone smoke pot because they are a Rastafarian? Meh, they aren't really hurting anyone, so why not?

So being a homophobic bigot and using religion as an excuse when society has moved beyond that bullshit, probably falls somewhere in between.




Not at all.

First and foremost, why should this "Right" merely apply to business owners? Why not the wage slaves... then we could have THIS kind of fun at the checkout line.


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Stamping out homophobia is a compelling need. Just like stamping out racism is a compelling need. You squeal about the last little bit of bigotry you can still hold on to, hiding it under a bible, when most of the churches are distancing themselves from it.

Shit, even the MORMONS started supporting the Marriage Equality Bill! THE MORMONS! What is the world coming to.

Forcing someone to choose between a business and one specific thing they don't want to participate in is ridiculous, unless you are a mean old anti-religious fucktard. i.e. you.


Again, point of sale, not a contracted service and the people in question have already said they don't deny point of sale non custom items to anyone.

You get off on fucking people over you don't like, and that's pathetic.

 

[JoeB131]

Forcing someone to choose between a business and one specific thing they don't want to participate in is ridiculous, unless you are a mean old anti-religious fucktard. i.e. you.

But we do that all the time. If you don't like washing your hands after you take a shit, you are in violation of sanitary codes. If you don't like black people, you still have to serve them when they come into your store.

You also danced around why doesn't your notion of religious freedom apply to the wage slaves? Can Muslim Taxi drivers refuse to take fake service animals into their cabs?

Again, point of sale, not a contracted service and the people in question have already said they don't deny point of sale non custom items to anyone

Distinction without a difference.

You get off on fucking people over you don't like, and that's pathetic.

Oh, I totally enjoy it, but in this case, it's justified.

 

[martybegan]

But we do that all the time. If you don't like washing your hands after you take a shit, you are in violation of sanitary codes. If you don't like black people, you still have to serve them when they come into your store.

You also danced around why doesn't your notion of religious freedom apply to the wage slaves? Can Muslim Taxi drivers refuse to take fake service animals into their cabs?



Distinction without a difference.



Oh, I totally enjoy it, but in this case, it's justified.

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Sanitary codes aren't over butthurt.

If the taxi does curb pickups, no, if it does contracted pickups, yes.

You don't get to decide how people practice their religion, and in this country neither does the government unless there is an overwhelming compelling reason. butthurt ain't a compelling overwhelming reason.

 

[JoeB131]

Sanitary codes aren't over butthurt.

If the taxi does curb pickups, no, if it does contracted pickups, yes.

You don't get to decide how people practice their religion, and in this country neither does the government unless there is an overwhelming compelling reason. butthurt ain't a compelling overwhelming reason.

Ending discrimination is a compelling reason.

 

[martybegan]

Ending discrimination is a compelling reason.

For government or systemic discrimination yes, but not for something like this that has to take into account a person's right to free exercise.

 

[JoeB131]

For government or systemic discrimination yes, but not for something like this that has to take into account a person's right to free exercise.

And they are totally free to grovel in front of their imaginary sky friend in their homes and churches.

But the minute they put out a shingle and offer products and services, the anti-discrimination laws apply.

 

[martybegan]

And they are totally free to grovel in front of their imaginary sky friend in their homes and churches.

But the minute they put out a shingle and offer products and services, the anti-discrimination laws apply.

Free exercise isn't limited to Church or Home.

Commerce regulations allowed in State and the Federal Constitution do not override free exercise unless there is a damn good reason, and then are to be mitigated only using the least intrusive measures possible, like putting a sign on your window or a disclaimer on your website.

 

[JoeB131]

Free exercise isn't limited to Church or Home.

Commerce regulations allowed in State and the Federal Constitution do not override free exercise unless there is a damn good reason, and then are to be mitigated only using the least intrusive measures possible, like putting a sign on your window or a disclaimer on your website.

tell you what, when your business gets off it's foundation and walks to a church, then I will respect it's "freedom to practice".

You keep avoiding the question, what if I as an employee decide that doing my job is against my religion?

What if get up and say, "I'm not going to do business with that Mormon because he is a filthy heretic cultist!"

Seem to me that by the logic you just laid out, I should have every right to.

 

[martybegan]

tell you what, when your business gets off it's foundation and walks to a church, then I will respect it's "freedom to practice".

You keep avoiding the question, what if I as an employee decide that doing my job is against my religion?

What if get up and say, "I'm not going to do business with that Mormon because he is a filthy heretic cultist!"

Seem to me that by the logic you just laid out, I should have every right to.

Again, the 1st amendment doesn't cover just churches and clergy. Free exercise is an individual right.

employees are different than owners of a business.

In Utah you would be screwed. and it depends on the business.

 

[JoeB131]

Again, the 1st amendment doesn't cover just churches and clergy. Free exercise is an individual right.

employees are different than owners of a business.

How are they different? It seems to me that if you think that religious freedom is an absolute right to disobey other rules and laws you don't like, that should apply to employees and well as businesses.

In Utah you would be screwed. and it depends on the business.

Um, okay, that wasn't relevant. Should I have the right to refuse Mormons because I think they are heretic cultists?

 

[martybegan]

How are they different? It seems to me that if you think that religious freedom is an absolute right to disobey other rules and laws you don't like, that should apply to employees and well as businesses.


Um, okay, that wasn't relevant. Should I have the right to refuse Mormons because I think they are heretic cultists?

Level of investment for one, personal ownership involving rights you just don't give up because you try to sell something for another. Employment at will is just that.

Go ahead and try it, you bigoted fuck.

 

[JoeB131]

Level of investment for one, personal ownership involving rights you just don't give up because you try to sell something for another. Employment at will is just that.

BUt that's not your claim. Your claim is that the FREE EXCERCISE of religion should be an absolute right.

So it should also be for the little people... or not.

Go ahead and try it, you bigoted fuck.

Oh, no, I'd never openly do it... heh, heh, heh.

 

[martybegan]

BUt that's not your claim. Your claim is that the FREE EXCERCISE of religion should be an absolute right.

So it should also be for the little people... or not.


Oh, no, I'd never openly do it... heh, heh, heh.

No I Stated free exercise it has to be considered, and any action against it has to have a compelling reason and be mitigated in the most minimal way.

My position is butthurt doesn't override free exercise.

 

[JoeB131]

No I Stated free exercise it has to be considered, and any action against it has to have a compelling reason and be mitigated in the most minimal way.

Yup, so my belief that Mormons are a heretical cult sent by Satan himself should totally be taken into account when I refuse to serve them. See what happens when you start letting religious crazy make policy?

 

[martybegan]

Yup, so my belief that Mormons are a heretical cult sent by Satan himself should totally be taken into account when I refuse to serve them. See what happens when you start letting religious crazy make policy?

Again, you are probably talking an actual PA, not a contracted service. The people in question already have said they don't deny PA transactions for any reason, just they don't want to do custom contracted work like this.

The Baker also doesn't do Halloween cakes due to his beliefs.

Oh, plenty of non religious types can make crazy policy, like bail reform and puberty blockers for 11 year olds.

 

[JoeB131]

Again, you are probably talking an actual PA, not a contracted service. The people in question already have said they don't deny PA transactions for any reason, just they don't want to do custom contracted work like this.

Then they should find something else to do for a living.

he Baker also doesn't do Halloween cakes due to his beliefs.

Okay. That makes sense, since NO ONE gets a Halloween Cake. (Not that anyone has cakes for Halloween) But if you are going to bake cakes for the straights and not for the gays, then that is discrimination.

Oh, plenty of non religious types can make crazy policy, like bail reform and puberty blockers for 11 year olds.

Bail reform is awesome. Why are we penalizing innocent people for being poor? The ONLY People who should be locked before trial are those who are demonstrably dangerous or a flight risk. They shouldn't be locked up because they couldn't afford bail.

Do you know how few minors get puberty blockers?

The NYT’s Big Piece on Puberty Blockers Mucked Up the Most Important Point About Them

They can have side effects. But here’s what else to consider.

slate.com

None of this context was mentioned by the Times. Something that was mentioned, but downplayed, is how few kids are actually being treated with puberty blockers in the U.S. There are over 25 million youth between the ages of 12 and 17 in this country. The best estimate of how many children are on puberty blockers, according to a recent Reuters investigation, is roughly 5,000. The percentage of U.S. children from 13 to 17 on puberty blockers for gender dysphoria, therefore, calculates to .02 percent. The Times estimates that 300,000 U.S. youth identify as trans. Five thousand is less than 2 percent of those trans-identifying youth. A much, much higher percentage of youth have been on a diet.

 

[martybegan]

Then they should find something else to do for a living.



Okay. That makes sense, since NO ONE gets a Halloween Cake. (Not that anyone has cakes for Halloween) But if you are going to bake cakes for the straights and not for the gays, then that is discrimination.


Bail reform is awesome. Why are we penalizing innocent people for being poor? The ONLY People who should be locked before trial are those who are demonstrably dangerous or a flight risk. They shouldn't be locked up because they couldn't afford bail.

Do you know how few minors get puberty blockers?

The NYT’s Big Piece on Puberty Blockers Mucked Up the Most Important Point About Them

They can have side effects. But here’s what else to consider.

slate.com

None of this context was mentioned by the Times. Something that was mentioned, but downplayed, is how few kids are actually being treated with puberty blockers in the U.S. There are over 25 million youth between the ages of 12 and 17 in this country. The best estimate of how many children are on puberty blockers, according to a recent Reuters investigation, is roughly 5,000. The percentage of U.S. children from 13 to 17 on puberty blockers for gender dysphoria, therefore, calculates to .02 percent. The Times estimates that 300,000 U.S. youth identify as trans. Five thousand is less than 2 percent of those trans-identifying youth. A much, much higher percentage of youth have been on a diet.

Then find another baker. Sorry again you can't force him to give up his entire business over one transaction he wants to decline. That's the all or nothing mentality everyone hates about SJW whiny bitches like you.

They go back out and keep doing criminal activities. Bail reform is another one of those idiot ideas from idiots like you.

Unless they have pre-mature puberty, there shouldn't be even ONE.

 

[JoeB131]

Then find another baker. Sorry again you can't force him to give up his entire business over one transaction he wants to decline. That's the all or nothing mentality everyone hates about SJW whiny bitches like you.

Sure you can. You make a fucking example out of him so all the other bakers don't get stupid.

They go back out and keep doing criminal activities. Bail reform is another one of those idiot ideas from idiots like you.

If someone is a danger to the community, then lock him up after you've proven he's dangerous.

Hey, innocent until proven guilty. We shouldn't be locking ANYONE up without a verdict.

Unless they have pre-mature puberty, there shouldn't be even ONE.

Medical professionals think otherwise. So let's admit that of the 5000 youth puberty blockers, many of which are for premature puberty (which isn't a life-threatening condition, either!) are a very small fraction and nothing to get worked up about. I trust doctors to know what is best for their patients, and parents to know what is best for their children. The rest of you "libertarians" need to mind your own fucking business.

 

[martybegan]

Sure you can. You make a fucking example out of him so all the other bakers don't get stupid.



If someone is a danger to the community, then lock him up after you've proven he's dangerous.

Hey, innocent until proven guilty. We shouldn't be locking ANYONE up without a verdict.


Medical professionals think otherwise. So let's admit that of the 5000 youth puberty blockers, many of which are for premature puberty (which isn't a life-threatening condition, either!) are a very small fraction and nothing to get worked up about. I trust doctors to know what is best for their patients, and parents to know what is best for their children. The rest of you "libertarians" need to mind your own fucking business.

Or you can respect the rights of others, something you are incapable of doing.

They need incentive not to commit more crimes when out waiting trial. Bail is that incentive. I live in NYC and the place is festering as it was back in the 80's.

Medical professionals used to bleed people to balance humors and recommended toasted cigarettes.


Lol, you trust people with this, but can't trust your fellow citizens with firearms.


What a fucking joke you are.