Is the Bible clear?

[Sky Dancer]

Anyone interested in my visions?

LOL I thought not.

 

[RodISHI]

Anyone interested in my visions?

LOL I thought not.

Did anyone say that they were not?

 

[Truthspeaker]

This vision is very similar to the vision of Nephi in roughly 585 BC.
32 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me again, saying: Look! And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the everlasting God was judged of the world; and I saw and bear record.
33 And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world.
34 And after he was slain I saw the multitudes of the earth, that they were gathered together to fight against the apostles of the Lamb; for thus were the twelve called by the angel of the Lord.
35 And the multitude of the earth was gathered together; and I beheld that they were in a large and spacious building, like unto the building which my father saw. And the angel of the Lord spake unto me again, saying: Behold the world and the wisdom thereof; yea, behold the house of Israel hath gathered together to fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
36 And it came to pass that I saw and bear record, that the great and spacious building was the apride of the world; and it fell, and the fall thereof was exceedingly great. And the angel of the Lord spake unto me again, saying: Thus shall be the destruction of all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, that shall fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

In chapter 12 it continues much like what Washington saw:

1 And it came to pass that the angel said unto me: Look, and behold thy seed, and also the seed of thy brethren. And I looked and beheld the land of promise; and I beheld multitudes of people, yea, even as it were in number as many as the sand of the sea.
2 And it came to pass that I beheld multitudes gathered together to battle, one against the other; and I beheld wars, and rumors of wars, and great slaughters with the sword among my people.
3 And it came to pass that I beheld many generations pass away, after the manner of wars and contentions in the land; and I beheld many cities, yea, even that I did not number them.
4 And it came to pass that I saw a mist of bdarkness on the face of the land of promise; and I saw lightnings, and I heard thunderings, and earthquakes, and all manner of tumultuous noises; and I saw the earth and the rocks, that they rent; and I saw mountains tumbling into pieces; and I saw the plains of the earth, that they were broken up; and I saw many cities that they were sunk; and I saw many that they were burned with fire; and I saw many that did tumble to the earth, because of the quaking thereof.
5 And it came to pass after I saw these things, I saw the vapor of darkness, that it passed from off the face of the earth; and behold, I saw multitudes who had not fallen because of the great and terrible judgments of the Lord.
6 And I saw the heavens open, and the Lamb of God descending out of heaven; and he came down and showed himself unto them.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Anyone interested in my visions?

LOL I thought not.

Of course i would like to know about your visions

 

[Shogun]

Well if you insist, Jesus would kill people who offend "little ones" or children. Luke chapter 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones

Do you imagine that every kid that ever happened upon jesus was from a family or life situation that jesus would have approved of? Which book sees jesus actively hunting down those who offend little ones? And, not to leap back into the OT but I wonder what those kids who became she bear dinner would think about that.. You DO beleive the god of the ot and jesus are one and the same, after all. hell, i'd say the first born of egypt might have a bone to pick with that lack of consistency too. Kids of Canaan? Hell, ANY kid who found themselves facing jews in the OT for that matter.

Sometimes innocent people die. God saves those kids into eternal life in my belief. There is more to it than this life alone. There is much we don't see or understand but innocent people who die do not die in vain. I believe in many cases such as the firstborn of Egypt, it wasn't meant to punish the children but the parents. If God destroyed a city or put a plague on someone, I bet he had a reason for it.

It's awfully easy to say that sometimes innocent people die when you are not the dying innocent. You think that message would have sold on 9/12/01? It's awfully fun to ponder hypotheticals when other people are the ones paying the price. It's an integral flaw of the jewish mythology associated with the bible; the first lesson being Canaan. Why the hell should goyim be interested in a god whose sole concern is jews and only jews? Hell, it wasn't until jesus could be canonized that dirty goyim fell into the picture! Not to mention, that they give christianity the same regard that christians give MORMONISM. Again, it's easy to get all philosophical about OT death and the monster, cthulu-like god that is represented. But, it's another thing entirely to gel that with the compassion and "turn the other cheak"iness that is supposed to be the example of jebus in the NT. On numerous times he could have "defended" himself and his people but, instead, chose to live by example. Which, brings me back to point: Are you going to start telling people that you are sure god had a good reason to kill the kids from 9/11? Why is it that your answer changes accoridng to perspective?

 

[RodISHI]

Just for a bit of info on the subject concerning OT and NT reading concerning murder, "thou shalt not kill".

The Word/Jesus/Yahushua/Lord of Lord King of Kings is a spirit. With that said the battle is within the concept of spirit not flesh. Simple as Believers really we are to fight the spirits and principalities not the flesh. Any religion attempting to justify war/killing based on what they percieve God/OMNI truly wants is in error if they think He/She the creator of all things wants murder and mayhem of any kind.

When the OT tells of the battles it is speaking in terms of prophecy and spirit also. Has the same been manifested in the flesh? Yes it has. Archelogical history is out there for people to find.

Babylon=Confusion yet it is also a physical place with a physical history.

Jesus said pray that it be in earth as it is in heaven. "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."

How much more simple can you get than that?

Heaven has no shadows, no evil, no resentment, it is very orderly, the wars were fought in heaven and evil was tossed out. Why is that so hard for Christians, Muslims and Jews to understand?

If Israel equals "God prevails" why would those of the world want the state of Israel destroyed? The answer is simple it is because they are of the world and there is no light in them.

If the physical location of Israel is of God then it appears what Shogun is trying to say that they should act like it. If I am in error correct that Shogun.

What is a Jew as defined by the NT? It is one who lives by faith. And there are those who call themselves Jews which are not truly Jews as defined by the Bible.

 

[Avatar4321]

You believe you had a vision or spiritual experience of the Holy Spirit and Satan. I accept that as your belief. What do you think of the visions that Native Americans have? Are they authentic? Are only Bible inspired visions genuine?

What about psychotics who kill and they claim that Jesus or God commanded them to do so? How would a lay person be able to tell the difference between psychotic features with religious expression and genuine spiritual experiences?

Do you continue to see demons? Where do you see them? What do they look like?

What exactly is a bible inspired vision?

A vision is a vision. If God gives a man a vision, he will be uplifted and edified by it. What the heck does the Bible have to do with it?

 

[AllieBaba]

But personal interpretations do differ!

However, to make a personal interpretation, you need to know the context of the passage, the times, and you need to have some knowledge of the original language in which it was written. For the unknowledgeable to think they can "interpret" a passage of bible accurately when they don't have any understanding of things like, say, robes, the geography and political climate of the time, the law, and customs of the people is ignorant. The bible isn't a Stephen King novel, and even laymen can't understand it without exhaustive research, and nobody can fully understand it without the spirit. Ultimately, there is only one interpretation, and it has nothing to do with anyone's personal "feelings" or their limited understanding of English.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Learn Hebrew.

Study the OT with a Rabbi.

THEN you can understand the NT.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Do you imagine that every kid that ever happened upon jesus was from a family or life situation that jesus would have approved of? Which book sees jesus actively hunting down those who offend little ones? And, not to leap back into the OT but I wonder what those kids who became she bear dinner would think about that.. You DO beleive the god of the ot and jesus are one and the same, after all. hell, i'd say the first born of egypt might have a bone to pick with that lack of consistency too. Kids of Canaan? Hell, ANY kid who found themselves facing jews in the OT for that matter.

Sometimes innocent people die. God saves those kids into eternal life in my belief. There is more to it than this life alone. There is much we don't see or understand but innocent people who die do not die in vain. I believe in many cases such as the firstborn of Egypt, it wasn't meant to punish the children but the parents. If God destroyed a city or put a plague on someone, I bet he had a reason for it.

It's awfully easy to say that sometimes innocent people die when you are not the dying innocent. You think that message would have sold on 9/12/01? It's awfully fun to ponder hypotheticals when other people are the ones paying the price. It's an integral flaw of the jewish mythology associated with the bible; the first lesson being Canaan. Why the hell should goyim be interested in a god whose sole concern is jews and only jews? Hell, it wasn't until jesus could be canonized that dirty goyim fell into the picture! Not to mention, that they give christianity the same regard that christians give MORMONISM. Again, it's easy to get all philosophical about OT death and the monster, cthulu-like god that is represented. But, it's another thing entirely to gel that with the compassion and "turn the other cheak"iness that is supposed to be the example of jebus in the NT. On numerous times he could have "defended" himself and his people but, instead, chose to live by example. Which, brings me back to point: Are you going to start telling people that you are sure god had a good reason to kill the kids from 9/11? Why is it that your answer changes accoridng to perspective?

Of course my answer depends on perspective. Every perception depends on perspective. I come from the perspective of having one of my friends murdered and my Grandfather dying needlessly young. I eyewitness thousands of innocent kids massacred by AIDS in Swaziland. My perspective helps me form an opinion I can make sense out of. It makes sense to me because I am 100% percent sure what happens to us after we die.
Again God has given a lot of reasons why he does things and some reasons he hasn't given yet. But I trust he knows what he is doing.

 

[Truthspeaker]

But personal interpretations do differ!

However, to make a personal interpretation, you need to know the context of the passage, the times, and you need to have some knowledge of the original language in which it was written. For the unknowledgeable to think they can "interpret" a passage of bible accurately when they don't have any understanding of things like, say, robes, the geography and political climate of the time, the law, and customs of the people is ignorant. The bible isn't a Stephen King novel, and even laymen can't understand it without exhaustive research, and nobody can fully understand it without the spirit. Ultimately, there is only one interpretation, and it has nothing to do with anyone's personal "feelings" or their limited understanding of English.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know you douchebag Truth(non)Speaker, I'd like to have you answer me a question......

If you are so close to HaShem (God to you), and, you tell everyone that you are always seeking, as well as respectful.......

How come you never capitalize His Name, or when referring to Him?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Here we go again

sorry professor, I didn't know I was being graded

 

[ABikerSailor]

Listen dude.....you're not only judged by your thoughts and words, but also by your actions.

I just kinda find it a bit hypocritical for you to claim to be so pious and respectful when you don't really pay much attention to detail.

I mean.....if I meet an officer and I'm in uniform, I salute. Regardless. Same thing when I type God's Names or when referring to Him or Jesus.

It's just a matter of respect. But.....you're a civilian......I guess you don't understand.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I do understand the concept. But when we are typing so fast and just trying to get the point across. I don't see the need to capitalize the name. I think the purpose of capitalization in cannon is in order to differentiate between the name of JEHOVAH and pagan gods referred to in the Bible. I also know that they capitalize God simply because they want you to know they are speaking of JEHOVAH to avoid the too frequent use of his name out of respect. Because God is written in the scripture so often it would be awkward and disrespectful to always use JEHOVAH every time.
I do understand your point but I think you are being a little overzealous.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I do understand the concept. But when we are typing so fast and just trying to get the point across. I don't see the need to capitalize the name. I think the purpose of capitalization in cannon is in order to differentiate between the name of JEHOVAH and pagan gods referred to in the Bible. I also know that they capitalize God simply because they want you to know they are speaking of JEHOVAH to avoid the too frequent use of his name out of respect. Because God is written in the scripture so often it would be awkward and disrespectful to always use JEHOVAH every time.
I do understand your point but I think you are being a little overzealous.

Really?

Well, I type at 70 - 120 wpm, and I still manage to capitalize things.

And, exactly WHERE are the verses that refer to pagan gods in the NT?

And......you DO realize that J-------h is actually a mistranslation of the name Adonai, right?

You REALLY should check with a Rabbi before you start throwing HaShem's names around so casually dude.

I saw someone at a study group led by a Torah scholar. They used that name (the J one), and the teacher backed away from the stage quickly. He then told us that is a really bad thing to call God.

Like I said, it helps to know the originator of the names you use.

 

[AllieBaba]

Learn Hebrew.

Study the OT with a Rabbi.

THEN you can understand the NT.

No shit? Isn't that pretty much what I just said? It's not about personal interpretation but an understanding of the language, the times, the geography etc. so on and so forth?

Quit stealing my lines, you boob.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Well just because some people get freaked out at the name doesn't mean that He is freaked out. He doesn't mind if we use his name once in a while. And yes I know that Adonai means in english Lord or LORD. I do know that stuff. But Jews don't have a monopoly on the market of His name. I have a different religious view than they do and so I do not feel compelled to obey their rules on the subject.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Didn't steal your lines Allie.

I used my own words.

Not my fault if we both come across the same concepts.

 

[AllieBaba]

Sometimes innocent people die. God saves those kids into eternal life in my belief. There is more to it than this life alone. There is much we don't see or understand but innocent people who die do not die in vain. I believe in many cases such as the firstborn of Egypt, it wasn't meant to punish the children but the parents. If God destroyed a city or put a plague on someone, I bet he had a reason for it.

It's awfully easy to say that sometimes innocent people die when you are not the dying innocent. You think that message would have sold on 9/12/01? It's awfully fun to ponder hypotheticals when other people are the ones paying the price. It's an integral flaw of the jewish mythology associated with the bible; the first lesson being Canaan. Why the hell should goyim be interested in a god whose sole concern is jews and only jews? Hell, it wasn't until jesus could be canonized that dirty goyim fell into the picture! Not to mention, that they give christianity the same regard that christians give MORMONISM. Again, it's easy to get all philosophical about OT death and the monster, cthulu-like god that is represented. But, it's another thing entirely to gel that with the compassion and "turn the other cheak"iness that is supposed to be the example of jebus in the NT. On numerous times he could have "defended" himself and his people but, instead, chose to live by example. Which, brings me back to point: Are you going to start telling people that you are sure god had a good reason to kill the kids from 9/11? Why is it that your answer changes accoridng to perspective?

Of course my answer depends on perspective. Every perception depends on perspective. I come from the perspective of having one of my friends murdered and my Grandfather dying needlessly young. I eyewitness thousands of innocent kids massacred by AIDS in Swaziland. My perspective helps me form an opinion I can make sense out of. It makes sense to me because I am 100% percent sure what happens to us after we die.
Again God has given a lot of reasons why he does things and some reasons he hasn't given yet. But I trust he knows what he is doing.

Being sure doesn't make you right. People were sure it was the right thing to kill Jews. People were sure little men lived inside us and dictated our health. People were sure that milk turned sour due to evil spirits.

Only fools are sure of anything, to quote Robyn Williams in Fern Gully.

Question..."Are you sure?"
Answer: "I'm sure."