Is the Bible clear?

That may or may not have been jesus depending on specific denominational belief. So, i'll ask again, who would jesus kill? Try to stay within the NT since we know full well what kind of bloodthirsty monster the god of the OT is.


by the way... Rome and Egypt sure did get a major pass, eh?


Revelation fairly well lays that out Shogun.

Sections of Chapter 9

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.

18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed--by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents, having heads; and with them they do harm.

20 But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.

21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.
 
So Sunni, I want to ask an honest question.
Do Muslims believe that just because you accept the Quran, you get eternal life?

To become a Muslim, you Must say the "Shahada" which means "testify" in arabic

"Lā ilaha illa al-Lāh, Muhammadun rasūlu l-Lāh", which means in english:

“There is no god but God, Muhammad is the Messenger of God"

This is the first of the 5 Pillars of Islam.


Accepting the Quran does not get you into heaven in Islam.

In fact, Heaven is Not gauranteed for any Muslim.

God is the ultimate decider of who enters in and who is barred from eternal life.

Ok thank you for clarifying, because you said that people chose eternal life by accepting the Quran. So I got a little confused but I am ok now.
 
That may or may not have been jesus depending on specific denominational belief. So, i'll ask again, who would jesus kill? Try to stay within the NT since we know full well what kind of bloodthirsty monster the god of the OT is.


by the way... Rome and Egypt sure did get a major pass, eh?

Yeah Egypt got off real easy, God only had their armies swallowed up in the Red Sea, killed every one of their firstborn, smote them with plagues of lice, locusts, hail, frogs and fire.
Rome got off real nice too by getting their entire empire wiped out and their major city sacked.

well, so sayeth the MYTH. The fact remains that both Egypt AND Rome remained despite the canonization of jewish myth. If you believe all that I have an excellent story for you about George Washington and a cherry tree.

Have you ever read the vision of George Washington?
 
This "my religion is better than yours" argument does nothing but stir up contention and is not of God. We should be kinder in our speech to those of other faiths. Of course we are going to disagree on doctrines but that doesn't mean we should be pronouncing judgments. That is God's job.

Who are you addressing this post to? Who is saying his/her religion is better than yours? Isn't it entirely possible that we conceive of God differently, but that doesn't mean that God is any of our conceptions.

In that post I was addressing the christians arguing with Sunni Man.
And of course there are different conceptions of God, otherwise we wouldn't have all these different religions with different tenets.
The truth about God can only be revealed intimately through prayer, or far less likely through an actual meeting of God. Each person has to find out for themselves what is real and what is error.
 
That may or may not have been jesus depending on specific denominational belief. So, i'll ask again, who would jesus kill? Try to stay within the NT since we know full well what kind of bloodthirsty monster the god of the OT is.


by the way... Rome and Egypt sure did get a major pass, eh?


Revelation fairly well lays that out Shogun.

Sections of Chapter 9

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.

18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed--by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents, having heads; and with them they do harm.

20 But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.

21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.



Revelations really has nothing to do with jesus. If I eat an ounce of mushrooms I could probably scrawl something down similar to the nostrodaumus of the bible did.

So, one more time.. During the course of his life WHO DID JESUS KILL?
 
Yeah Egypt got off real easy, God only had their armies swallowed up in the Red Sea, killed every one of their firstborn, smote them with plagues of lice, locusts, hail, frogs and fire.
Rome got off real nice too by getting their entire empire wiped out and their major city sacked.

well, so sayeth the MYTH. The fact remains that both Egypt AND Rome remained despite the canonization of jewish myth. If you believe all that I have an excellent story for you about George Washington and a cherry tree.

Have you ever read the vision of George Washington?

cant say that i have.
 
I believe they are the same person. And I don't believe Jehovah of the OT was a bloodthirsty monster. I think he was just cleaning house in situations where he knew that people were beyond redemption and had rejected him as a society.
When Jehovah came down as Jesus, I think part of his mission was to help people realize that he was not a blood thirsty monster because everything he did was out of love and honor.

you know what they say about opinions and assholes. I would imagine that Egypt's first born and canaan, a people that didn't do ANYTHING to jews, would have disagreed with you. Hell, if only bald men everywhere had a few bears handy, eh?

Again, according to the NT who would jesus have killed?

Well if you insist, Jesus would kill people who offend "little ones" or children. Luke chapter 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones
 
I believe they are the same person. And I don't believe Jehovah of the OT was a bloodthirsty monster. I think he was just cleaning house in situations where he knew that people were beyond redemption and had rejected him as a society.
When Jehovah came down as Jesus, I think part of his mission was to help people realize that he was not a blood thirsty monster because everything he did was out of love and honor.

you know what they say about opinions and assholes. I would imagine that Egypt's first born and canaan, a people that didn't do ANYTHING to jews, would have disagreed with you. Hell, if only bald men everywhere had a few bears handy, eh?

Again, according to the NT who would jesus have killed?

Well if you insist, Jesus would kill people who offend "little ones" or children. Luke chapter 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones
I have always wondered if this was a reference to child molesters?
 
I believe they are the same person. And I don't believe Jehovah of the OT was a bloodthirsty monster. I think he was just cleaning house in situations where he knew that people were beyond redemption and had rejected him as a society.
When Jehovah came down as Jesus, I think part of his mission was to help people realize that he was not a blood thirsty monster because everything he did was out of love and honor.

you know what they say about opinions and assholes. I would imagine that Egypt's first born and canaan, a people that didn't do ANYTHING to jews, would have disagreed with you. Hell, if only bald men everywhere had a few bears handy, eh?

Again, according to the NT who would jesus have killed?

Well if you insist, Jesus would kill people who offend "little ones" or children. Luke chapter 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones


Do you imagine that every kid that ever happened upon jesus was from a family or life situation that jesus would have approved of? Which book sees jesus actively hunting down those who offend little ones? And, not to leap back into the OT but I wonder what those kids who became she bear dinner would think about that.. You DO beleive the god of the ot and jesus are one and the same, after all. hell, i'd say the first born of egypt might have a bone to pick with that lack of consistency too. Kids of Canaan? Hell, ANY kid who found themselves facing jews in the OT for that matter.
 
That may or may not have been jesus depending on specific denominational belief. So, i'll ask again, who would jesus kill? Try to stay within the NT since we know full well what kind of bloodthirsty monster the god of the OT is.


by the way... Rome and Egypt sure did get a major pass, eh?


Revelation fairly well lays that out Shogun.

Sections of Chapter 9

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.

18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed--by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents, having heads; and with them they do harm.

20 But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.

21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.



Revelations really has nothing to do with jesus. If I eat an ounce of mushrooms I could probably scrawl something down similar to the nostrodaumus of the bible did.

So, one more time.. During the course of his life WHO DID JESUS KILL?
Revelations has everything to do with Jesus as Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

To answer the question:
No one when He came and walked in the flesh here on earth.
 
you know what they say about opinions and assholes. I would imagine that Egypt's first born and canaan, a people that didn't do ANYTHING to jews, would have disagreed with you. Hell, if only bald men everywhere had a few bears handy, eh?

Again, according to the NT who would jesus have killed?

Well if you insist, Jesus would kill people who offend "little ones" or children. Luke chapter 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones


Do you imagine that every kid that ever happened upon jesus was from a family or life situation that jesus would have approved of? Which book sees jesus actively hunting down those who offend little ones? And, not to leap back into the OT but I wonder what those kids who became she bear dinner would think about that.. You DO beleive the god of the ot and jesus are one and the same, after all. hell, i'd say the first born of egypt might have a bone to pick with that lack of consistency too. Kids of Canaan? Hell, ANY kid who found themselves facing jews in the OT for that matter.

Sometimes innocent people die. God saves those kids into eternal life in my belief. There is more to it than this life alone. There is much we don't see or understand but innocent people who die do not die in vain. I believe in many cases such as the firstborn of Egypt, it wasn't meant to punish the children but the parents. If God destroyed a city or put a plague on someone, I bet he had a reason for it.

Did Jesus actually kill anyone in the Bible, I don't know, but if he did, I wouldn't have a problem with it because his reasoning is better than ours. the last book of John says,"There are many things which Jesus did, the which if they should be written everyone, I suppose even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.

In the Book of Mormon, after Jesus was crucified, he decimated many Meso-American cities in the Book of 3rd Nephi in 33 A.D.:eek:
1 And it came to pass that there was a voice heard among all the inhabitants of the earth, upon all the face of this land, crying:
2 Wo, wo, wo unto this people; wo unto the inhabitants of the whole earth except they shall repent; for the devil laugheth, and his angels rejoice, because of the slain of the fair sons and daughters of my people; and it is because of their iniquity and abominations that they are fallen!
3 Behold, that great city Zarahemla have I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof.
4 And behold, that great city Moroni have I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned.
5 And behold, that great city Moronihah have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them.
6 And behold, the city of Gilgal have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth;
7 Yea, and the city of Onihah and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Mocum and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Jerusalem and the inhabitants thereof; and waters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come up any more unto me against them.
8 And behold, the city of Gadiandi, and the city of Gadiomnah, and the city of Jacob, and the city of Gimgimno, all these have I caused to be sunk, and made hills and valleys in the places thereof; and the inhabitants thereof have I buried up in the depths of the earth, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up any more unto me against them.
9 And behold, that great city Jacobugath, which was inhabited by the people of king Jacob, have I caused to be burned with fire because of their sins and their awickedness, which was above all the wickedness of the whole earth, because of their secret murders and combinations; for it was they that did destroy the peace of my people and the government of the land; therefore I did cause them to be burned, to destroy them from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up unto me any more against them.
10 And behold, the city of Laman, and the city of Josh, and the city of Gad, and the city of Kishkumen, have I caused to be burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof, because of their wickedness in casting out the prophets, and stoning those whom I did send to declare unto them concerning their wickedness and their abominations.
11 And because they did cast them all out, that there were none righteous among them, I did send down fire and destroy them, that their wickedness and abominations might be hid from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints whom I sent among them might not cry unto me from the ground against them.
12 And many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land, and upon this people, because of their wickedness and their abominations. :eusa_angel:
 
I think God probably would have had the same reasoning for destroying cities like Sodom and Gomorrah, "Because there was none righteous in them."

That is hardly a judgment that man can make. I don't think we are at the point yet where any single city is without any righteous people. but the time is coming.
 
I think God probably would have had the same reasoning for destroying cities like Sodom and Gomorrah, "Because there was none righteous in them."

That is hardly a judgment that man can make. I don't think we are at the point yet where any single city is without any righteous people. but the time is coming.

San Francisco is getting close!!
 
I think God probably would have had the same reasoning for destroying cities like Sodom and Gomorrah, "Because there was none righteous in them."

That is hardly a judgment that man can make. I don't think we are at the point yet where any single city is without any righteous people. but the time is coming.

San Francisco is getting close!!

Very true seeing as I am ostracized every time I speak my opinion.
 
I think God probably would have had the same reasoning for destroying cities like Sodom and Gomorrah, "Because there was none righteous in them."

That is hardly a judgment that man can make. I don't think we are at the point yet where any single city is without any righteous people. but the time is coming.

San Francisco is getting close!!

What did you think about the Meso-American destructions?
 
cant say that i have.


Originally published by Wesley Bradshaw in the National Tribune, Vol. 4, No. 12, December 12, 1880.


The last time I ever saw Anthony Sherman was on July 4, 1859, in Independence Square. He was then 99 years old, and becoming very feeble. But though so old, his dimming eyes rekindled as he gazed upon Independence Hall, which he came to visit once more.

“Let us go into the hall,” he said. “I want to tell you an incident of Washington’s life – one which no one alive knows of except myself, and if you live, you will before long, see it verified.”[1]



George Washington’s darkest period was at Valley Forge during the Revolutionary War in the winter of 1777. Often, he retreated to the thicket to pray in secret for aid for his poor soldiers and comfort from God.

One afternoon, Washington remained in his quarters alone all afternoon. He finally emerged, looking somewhat pale. Later, he related to Anthony Sherman what had transpired in his lodgings.

Uninvited Guest

While sitting at his table, preparing a dispatch, George Washington looked up to see a singularly beautiful female. He was astonished because he had given orders not to be disturbed. Four times, he inquired of her presence and received no answer. Presently he heard a voice, “Son of the Republic, look and learn.”

He then beheld a white vapor which gradually disappeared. Before him lay the world. Between Europe and America was a rolling and tossing Atlantic and between America and Asia was a billowing Pacific.

First Peril – Revolutionary War

“Son of the Republic,” said the same mysterious voice, “Look and learn.” Then he noticed a dark, shadowy being like an angel, floating between Europe and America. Dipping water out of the ocean in the hollow of each hand, the angel sprinkled some upon America with his right hand and some on Europe with his left. Immediately, a cloud rose from the two continents and joined in mid-ocean, remaining stationary at first, and then slowly moving westward, until it enveloped America in its murky folds. At intervals, there were flashes of lightning and Washington heard the smothered groans and cries of the American people.

The angel once again dipped water from the ocean, sprinkling it as before. A dark cloud was drawn back to the ocean and sank from view.

A third time Washington heard the mysterious voice saying, “Son of the Republic, look and learn.” Then he looked down to see villages and towns and cities springing up across the entire continent of North America.

Second Great Peril – The Civil War

Again, he heard the mysterious voice say, “Son of the Republic, the end of the century cometh, look and learn.”

This time a dark angel turned his face southward. From Africa, Washington saw an ill-omened spectre approaching our land, flitting over every town and city. The inhabitants began to war against each other. Then a bright angel with a crown of light had the word “Union” traced across it. The angel held an American flag, which he placed between the divided nation, and said, “Remember ye are brethren.” Instantly, the people cast their weapons aside and became friends again.

Third Peril – End-Time War

Again, Washington heard the mysterious voice say, “Son of the Republic, look and learn.” This time, a dark angel placed a trumpet to his mouth and blew three blasts. Taking water from the ocean, he sprinkled it on Europe, Asia, and Africa. Then a fearful scene occurred. Thick, black clouds arose from these three countries and joined into one. A dark red light moved throughout the mass, revealing a horde of armed men who marched and sailed to America, enveloped in a thick cloud. The vast armies devastated America, burning villages, towns and cities. Washington heard cannons thunder, swords clash and the shouts and cries of millions in mortal combat.

Heaven Invades Earth

Again, Washington heard the mysterious voice say, “Son of the Republic, look and learn.” The dark shadowy angel blew a long and fearful blast on his trumpet. Instantly, a light like a thousand suns radiated from above and pierced and broke into fragments the dark cloud covering America. The angel whose head still shone the word “Union” came down from heaven with an American flag in one hand and a sword in another. It was accompanied by legions of white spirits, who joined the inhabitants of America, weary from the battle, but took courage once again.

Again came the mysterious voice saying, “Son of the Republic, look and learn.” For the last time, the shadowy dark angel dipped water from the ocean and sprinkled America. “Instantly, the dark cloud rolled back, together with the armies it had brought, leaving the inhabitants of the land victorious.”

Once more, villages, towns and cities sprung up across North America, while the bright angel, placing the flag into the midst, cried out, “While the stars remain, and the heavens send down dew upon the earth, so long shall the Union last.” Taking from his brown the crown which said “Union,” he placed it on the flag, while the people knelt down, saying “Amen.”

Interpretation

As this scene faded, the mysterious visitor said, “Son of the Republic, what you have seen is thus interpreted. Three great perils will co me upon the Republic. The most fearful is the third.” At this, Washington told Anthony Sherman, “The help against the third peril comes in the shape of Divine assistance, passing which, the whole world united shall not prevail against her. Let every child of the Republic learn to live for his God, his land and Union.”

“With these words the vision vanished, and I started from my seat and felt that I had seen a vision wherein had been shown me the birth, progress, and destiny of the United States.”

“Such, my friends,” concluded Anthony Sherman, “were the words I heard from Washington’s own lips, and America will do well to profit by them.”

Source google/http://www.liberty1.org/gwvision.htm
 

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