Govt: "Run it like a business"??? WHY???

[Remodeling Maidiac]

And you claimed that 90% of your conservative values remained despite your stupid selfish flip.

YOU ARE A JOKE AND A FRAUD

Cant have an honest debate? Show me where I'm wrong. You are probably right there along with others crying about :

- SEAL THE BORDER
- FIX THE POTHOLES IN THE ROADS
- KEEP DANGEROUS CRIMINALS IN JAIL
- FIX THE TRAFFIC PROBLEMS
- WHY ISN"T THE WATER RUNNING
- CATCH THE THUGS ON OUR STREETS

I can go on. But our society has a high demand for govt, a high consumption of it's services. I'm saying are we willing to pay for it? If not, are we ready to all chip in to help ourselves?

BTW, honest debate is part of that 90% conservative side.

Lets try this....How do democrats meet your policy goals?

I answered your proposal in my post right next to yours.

They waste our tax dollars on busy work while ignoring budget concerns

 

[kwc57]

wow this is a confused mess. I agree with you that a government should not be run like a business but it should also not be treated as a vehicle for wealth distribution. The government should lower taxes and it should cut spending and it should get rid of people and cut salaries. The government is a parasite on the economy it takes money out of the economy and adds nothing of value. The prices that you list as going up are going up because of government meddling. Also you seem to be confusing local government services with federal services and they are completely different.

And thats all fine, IF, you are willing to accept the McDonalds level of govt service rather than the Outback version. If we cut salaries, downsize, etc, we'll have less qualified employees, less services, less capability to "do something" about problems. You'll get:

- Worse roads, less maintenance.
- Less qualified cops, with less experience (more crime, more rudeness, more corruption, longer response time)
- Same as above with firemen (longer response time, less experienced and training)
- An even WORSE situation at the DMV, longer lines, dumber employees
- Worse public schools, less experienced teachers
- Worse public works service: Clean roads, trash service, sewer flow, etc, etc

Your idea is fine, if you are willing to accept far less government service. Each of us will have to contribute more to our own well being in the community. Ready to do so?

I'm perfectly fine with that, because the gubmints job isn't to provide luxury services from cradle to grave. Me presonally, my son can't get finacial assistance for school becuase my wife and I make too much. I'm actually fine with paying for my son's education and don't expect the government to. What chaps my hide is a state program we have where my taxes pay tuition for students whose parents make less than $50K combined per year. The student has to take a hand full of classes in jr high and high school and maintain a 2.5 GPA in order to qualify. My son took AP classes and had a 4.0 GPA and gets a very small merit scholarship as a result. Why am I paying 99% of my son's education bill and my taxes are paying for everyone else's kids too? Or better yet, why aren't they paying their child's education expenses themselves? I'm fine with a McDonald/small government over an Outback/big government. It costs me less in the long run.

 

[asaratis]

Until the fringe benefits of being an elected politician are removed, we will continue to have graft and corruption guiding the votes of our lawmakers rather than adherence to what is right for the nation.

Campaigns spend millions of dollars to elect some professional politician to a job that pays just over a hundred thousand a year. What the contributors get back is awarded to them in the form of tax breaks, stimulus money, laws that are favorable to their cause...it's just politics.

Both sides do it.

 

[bucs90]

Cant have an honest debate? Show me where I'm wrong. You are probably right there along with others crying about :

- SEAL THE BORDER
- FIX THE POTHOLES IN THE ROADS
- KEEP DANGEROUS CRIMINALS IN JAIL
- FIX THE TRAFFIC PROBLEMS
- WHY ISN"T THE WATER RUNNING
- CATCH THE THUGS ON OUR STREETS

I can go on. But our society has a high demand for govt, a high consumption of it's services. I'm saying are we willing to pay for it? If not, are we ready to all chip in to help ourselves?

BTW, honest debate is part of that 90% conservative side.

Lets try this....How do democrats meet your policy goals?

I answered your proposal in my post right next to yours.

They waste our tax dollars on busy work while ignoring budget concerns

In other words, he's bitching about the fact that Kansas City paves it's roads BEFORE there are big problems (like we have in SC) and people are dropping hundreds of $$$ annually to fix their suspension/alignment. If KC "took care" of their roads like SC does, Murked U would be among those saying "Somebody needs to do something about these damn roads around here!!!!".

Well, in KC, "somebody" is doing something, and they're doing it BEFORE the problem arises.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You are so dim. You keep crying about roads and potholes. I live in KC and these dumbass repave perfectly good roads EVERY YEAR.

Get a fucking clue and grasp the concept that it's a local budgetary issue. My tax dollars are wasted every year here in KC on stupid busy work for govt employees but you don't see me whining about it like a little bitch on here

I live in South Carolina. Our roads are about like driving on Mars. You should be so thankful that your local govt is PREVENTING a roadway problem. I have to put $500 or so in work on my truck every damn year to fix the suspension/alignment from the horrible roads here.

Imagine that....a govt being PROACTIVE rather than reactive.

No surprise, you missed the point.

LOCAL ISSUES that have NOTHING to do with politics on a national level.

Are you really so dumb as to think that your voting for Obama will change your local problems? Wake up for Christ's sake

 

[courseofhistory]

A catch-phrase I hear a lot is how government should be run "like a business". WHY????? I doubt many people would actually LIKE govt when it is "run like a business". Here is why:

When a business is struggling, they do a combination of things. Reducing pay for workers is one. Downsizing is another. The beloved private sector has surely shown us that, through emotionless layoffs and outsourcing. But hey, "its just business".

But they also do something else. Raise prices. As we've seen in gas, food, power, water, clothing...really anything we need, the price has gone up. But again, hey, its just business.

So if a government was run like a business, what would it look like? Well, a few thing:

1) Less government workers and programs. Downsizing and outsourcing (by saying let the private sector do it). If we look at supply/demand models that the biz world does, "demand" for government has skyrocketed in our society. People call 911 for damn near ANYTHING these days. Any problem at all, people of all parties say "Someone needs to DO SOMETHING!!". That someone, to most, means the government. THey demand the president, governor, sheriff, mayor, chief, or someone to do something. Keep us safe. Keep us healthy, fix the traffic problems, pave the roads, keep the illegals and terrorists out, keep the air and water clean, etc, etc, etc.

But do they wanna pay for it? REMEMBER: Supply and demand. If they aren't willing to pay for it....be ready to consume far less government, and STOP asking the govt to do as much. A realistic analysis by a fair minded person will inevitably acknowledge our society does have a high demand for government in practical terms if not ideological.

2) "Raise prices". The government...er, business....provides a serivce. Which as I've stated above, is a service that is in high demand right now in society. Well, the government's "price" is the tax rate. If the govt is in debt, they must "run it like a business" by downsizing, outsourcing, and raising prices. Sure, some say lower prices/taxes will bring in more customers and revenue. And that is often true. BUT if so, why have prices for food, water, power, gas, clothing spiked lately???

Seems if raising prices works for the private businesses who produce food, water, power, clothes, gas..................why would a government NOT run it like a business and raise their prices (taxes/fees) also?

So, can someone explain to me why, if the government is run like a business, would they not also raise their prices exactly the same way that JIF Peanut Butter, Exxon Oil, the local water and power companies, Cheerios cereal, Regal Cinemas, and any scores of numbers of other private sector companies have done??????????

(**To head it off early, I know the response of "But we can choose to buy a product, we dont choose to pay taxes" is coming. Answer: You choose which city to pay taxes in. And really....do any of us realistically have a choice but to buy power, water, food and gas? No, we dont. Those are staples of survival. That argument is voided.)

So....are we really ready for government to be run like a business? If you were a victim of a horrible crime, and the local police couldn't solve it because they cut costs and lost all their experienced detectives.......would you accept the neighboring city's PD saying "Sorry, we cant loan you one of our experienced detectives, you dont pay taxes here, our taxpayers dont pay to help you. Sorry, but it's just business."

Food for thought.

Hey! Quit ruining the Republican meme. You're right and the government couldn't be run like a business without a lot of things grinding to a halt. It'd be public sector gridlock and chaos for the general public. But many think they want the US goverment to be run like a business so let them see the dire results if they elect Romney.

...

On a high level, running government like a business is a good principle. Government should be as efficient, accountable, and transparent as possible because taxpayer monies are at stake. However, the statement “government should be operated like a business” is a gross oversimplification, and it shows just how little politicians understand about how businesses actually work. On the contrary, inherent differences between government and business prevent government from operating like a business.

...

There are many differences between businesses and government that make it nearly impossible for the government to operate like a business, and significant reasons include the following:

(1) Government is a monopoly; businesses operate in a market.

Because businesses face more competitive pressure than government, they have an incentive to innovate their products, improve their services, drive down prices, become more efficient, etc. Government doesn’t experience this kind of competitive pressure because it is the sole provider of its services, so it does not have an incentive to do those things. Government can afford to deliver sub-par service because it prohibits other firms from entering the market.

(2) The knowledge and incentives are different.

Individuals remain rationally ignorant about the waste in government because their share is small, and their time is better spent in other ways. On the other hand, business executives have a stronger incentive to be be informed of the waste in their organizations.

(3) They make decisions differently.

Leaders made decisions differently in businesses and in government. Decisions are made by consensus in a representational democracy like the United States. In a business, the power to make decisions tends to be more centralized. Decisions are made by a select number of individuals, by polling all of the employees.

Participants also make decisions differently. In a market, individuals always get to decide what they pay for, whereas in a democracy, they have to go along with whatever the majority wants.

(4) Taxes and retail prices are different.

People are free to decide to patronize businesses voluntarily, but they are required by law to pay money to government. If a person thinks that a price of a good or service is too high, then she will choose not to pay. If a person thinks that taxes are too high, it doesn't matter; she is forced to keep paying them or get thrown in prison.

Furthermore, there is a limit to how much a person will pay for a product. The act of raising prices is not malicious. Companies incur costs that they have to cover, and they have customers whose willingnesses to pay is largely dependent on price. If a company raises its price too high, then individuals will stop voluntarily buying its product or service. This means that the company will not be able to cover its costs, and then it will go out of business.

...

Link

 

[JakeStarkey]

businesses are run to produce profit

governments are run to produce service

remembering these facts, let's start the discussion again

 

[bucs90]

You are so dim. You keep crying about roads and potholes. I live in KC and these dumbass repave perfectly good roads EVERY YEAR.

Get a fucking clue and grasp the concept that it's a local budgetary issue. My tax dollars are wasted every year here in KC on stupid busy work for govt employees but you don't see me whining about it like a little bitch on here

I live in South Carolina. Our roads are about like driving on Mars. You should be so thankful that your local govt is PREVENTING a roadway problem. I have to put $500 or so in work on my truck every damn year to fix the suspension/alignment from the horrible roads here.

Imagine that....a govt being PROACTIVE rather than reactive.

No surprise, you missed the point.

LOCAL ISSUES that have NOTHING to do with politics on a national level.

Are you really so dumb as to think that your voting for Obama will change your local problems? Wake up for Christ's sake

You must have missed where I layed out just how much the Feds help the states. Surely you dont think the Feds have NOTHING to do with roadway maintenance in our nation?

No, I'm not so dumb to think that. What I do know is a lot of cops and firemen kept food on the table from 2009-2011 from the stimulus. And now, in SC, the Tea Party darlings like Gov Nikki Haley, and local mayors, are slashing funds for cops and firemen even if they are brining in a surplus in revenue, just to "send a message". When the right starts attacking cops and firemen, Im done with them.

 

[bucs90]

businesses are run to produce profit

governments are run to produce service

remembering these facts, let's start the discussion again

Thats a damn good point.

If a government was "run like a business" then the point of the govt would be to take in as much revenue as possible for providing as little back as possible. Maximize profit margin. Thats just business.

Raise taxes, cut services. Thats runnin' it like a business!

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Dude I have lived in my new home for four years now. It's on a side street that gets very little traffic. There is NO EXCUSE for repaving it 3 times since I moved in. The fucking street is so smooth it has kids on skateboards on it constantly.

You just don't seem to get it. They have x amount of dollars in the bank. Rather than lowering our local taxes they take the excess funds every year and blow it on busy work for govt employees.

I just don't think you're smart enough to understand shit and the dems dumb down something to your level and you fall for it.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I live in South Carolina. Our roads are about like driving on Mars. You should be so thankful that your local govt is PREVENTING a roadway problem. I have to put $500 or so in work on my truck every damn year to fix the suspension/alignment from the horrible roads here.

Imagine that....a govt being PROACTIVE rather than reactive.

No surprise, you missed the point.

LOCAL ISSUES that have NOTHING to do with politics on a national level.

Are you really so dumb as to think that your voting for Obama will change your local problems? Wake up for Christ's sake

You must have missed where I layed out just how much the Feds help the states. Surely you dont think the Feds have NOTHING to do with roadway maintenance in our nation?

No, I'm not so dumb to think that. What I do know is a lot of cops and firemen kept food on the table from 2009-2011 from the stimulus. And now, in SC, the Tea Party darlings like Gov Nikki Haley, and local mayors, are slashing funds for cops and firemen even if they are brining in a surplus in revenue, just to "send a message". When the right starts attacking cops and firemen, Im done with them.

Every state gets funds from the fed. Apparently those accountable for in your state are wasting it. If it was a national issue I would be seeing the same problems you are. But I'm not and you're still to dumb to get it

 

[JakeStarkey]

This means you taxpayers are not running the government, the government is running you.

Quit crying and get to work.

Dude I have lived in my new home for four years now. It's on a side street that gets very little traffic. There is NO EXCUSE for repaving it 3 times since I moved in. The fucking street is so smooth it has kids on skateboards on it constantly.

You just don't seem to get it. They have x amount of dollars in the bank. Rather than lowering our local taxes they take the excess funds every year and blow it on busy work for govt employees.

I just don't think you're smart enough to understand shit and the dems dumb down something to your level and you fall for it.

 

[California Girl]

wow this is a confused mess. I agree with you that a government should not be run like a business but it should also not be treated as a vehicle for wealth distribution. The government should lower taxes and it should cut spending and it should get rid of people and cut salaries. The government is a parasite on the economy it takes money out of the economy and adds nothing of value. The prices that you list as going up are going up because of government meddling. Also you seem to be confusing local government services with federal services and they are completely different.

And thats all fine, IF, you are willing to accept the McDonalds level of govt service rather than the Outback version. If we cut salaries, downsize, etc, we'll have less qualified employees, less services, less capability to "do something" about problems. You'll get:

- Worse roads, less maintenance.
- Less qualified cops, with less experience (more crime, more rudeness, more corruption, longer response time)
- Same as above with firemen (longer response time, less experienced and training)
- An even WORSE situation at the DMV, longer lines, dumber employees
- Worse public schools, less experienced teachers
- Worse public works service: Clean roads, trash service, sewer flow, etc, etc

Your idea is fine, if you are willing to accept far less government service. Each of us will have to contribute more to our own well being in the community. Ready to do so?

Oh, for heaven's sake.... your newly found left wing lunatic status is laughable. Firstly, one has to understand the difference between state and federal... until you are capable of recognizing the difference, there is no point discussing it.

 

[bucs90]

Dude I have lived in my new home for four years now. It's on a side street that gets very little traffic. There is NO EXCUSE for repaving it 3 times since I moved in. The fucking street is so smooth it has kids on skateboards on it constantly.

You just don't seem to get it. They have x amount of dollars in the bank. Rather than lowering our local taxes they take the excess funds every year and blow it on busy work for govt employees.

I just don't think you're smart enough to understand shit and the dems dumb down something to your level and you fall for it.

"Those darn teenagers on their dad gum skateboards!!!!"

I'm smart enough to know that if your side street came under a crime wave you'd demand something be done. By someone. If there was a wild fire in woods near your home, you'd demand someone do something to stop it. If a storm blew a huge oak over the street, you'd be calling 911 to get "somebody out here to move it".

Would it be nice if KC gave that excess fund back in a rebate check? Yes, it would. Do you know that there is about a 99.9% KC is getting those paving funds from THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT? Yep. Most states and cities get most of their money for roads from the Feds, through grants that are given in exchange for local cops enforcing speed and seat belt laws on federal highways and interstates. KC has to spend that money, on roads, or they dont get it next year. If they dont get it next year, they may not have it when a problem does occur.

You dont seem to have experience working inside a government. And that said, I absolutely acknowledge that there is too much red tape, like KC having to spend that money on roads and not being able to send it back, or rebate it.

But a taxpayer bitching that his roads are too smooth is just........well, hard to put into words.

 

[LibertyForAll]

businesses are run to produce profit

governments are run to produce service

remembering these facts, let's start the discussion again

Please show me where in the constitution it says that the governments purpose it to provide services.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

And you claimed that 90% of your conservative values remained despite your stupid selfish flip.

YOU ARE A JOKE AND A FRAUD

you left out ...

 

[bucs90]

No surprise, you missed the point.

LOCAL ISSUES that have NOTHING to do with politics on a national level.

Are you really so dumb as to think that your voting for Obama will change your local problems? Wake up for Christ's sake

You must have missed where I layed out just how much the Feds help the states. Surely you dont think the Feds have NOTHING to do with roadway maintenance in our nation?

No, I'm not so dumb to think that. What I do know is a lot of cops and firemen kept food on the table from 2009-2011 from the stimulus. And now, in SC, the Tea Party darlings like Gov Nikki Haley, and local mayors, are slashing funds for cops and firemen even if they are brining in a surplus in revenue, just to "send a message". When the right starts attacking cops and firemen, Im done with them.

Every state gets funds from the fed. Apparently those accountable for in your state are wasting it. If it was a national issue I would be seeing the same problems you are. But I'm not and you're still to dumb to get it

Yes, we do. And SC has the rebellious side, especially in politics, and hasn't played nice with the Feds in the past decades regarding highway enforcement of seat belt and traffic laws. We are about 50 years behind in road maintenance. Part of that is the incredibly high cost of the big bridges on the coast that we have to maintain. The inland roads suffer as a result. And, we are a very low tax state, so unlike KC, we rely almost solely on Fed funds for road issues rather than chipping in state/local money once in a while. A perfect example is the local US17 project right now, 20 years overdue, delayed because of needing the new Ravenel Bridge. Had the state played nice in the 80's, this work would've been done 15 years ago.

 

[RDD_1210]

wow this is a confused mess. I agree with you that a government should not be run like a business but it should also not be treated as a vehicle for wealth distribution. The government should lower taxes and it should cut spending and it should get rid of people and cut salaries. The government is a parasite on the economy it takes money out of the economy and adds nothing of value. The prices that you list as going up are going up because of government meddling. Also you seem to be confusing local government services with federal services and they are completely different.

And thats all fine, IF, you are willing to accept the McDonalds level of govt service rather than the Outback version. If we cut salaries, downsize, etc, we'll have less qualified employees, less services, less capability to "do something" about problems. You'll get:

- Worse roads, less maintenance.
- Less qualified cops, with less experience (more crime, more rudeness, more corruption, longer response time)
- Same as above with firemen (longer response time, less experienced and training)
- An even WORSE situation at the DMV, longer lines, dumber employees
- Worse public schools, less experienced teachers
- Worse public works service: Clean roads, trash service, sewer flow, etc, etc

Your idea is fine, if you are willing to accept far less government service. Each of us will have to contribute more to our own well being in the community. Ready to do so?

Oh, for heaven's sake.... your newly found left wing lunatic status is laughable. Firstly, one has to understand the difference between state and federal... until you are capable of recognizing the difference, there is no point discussing it.

Explain it to him oh-wise-one.

But you won't because you can't. Right?

 

[RDD_1210]

businesses are run to produce profit

governments are run to produce service

remembering these facts, let's start the discussion again

Please show me where in the constitution it says that the governments purpose it to provide services.

LOL. Here we go again.

Where in the constitution does it say we need military bases all over the world, nuclear weapons , etc...

 

[bucs90]

businesses are run to produce profit

governments are run to produce service

remembering these facts, let's start the discussion again

Please show me where in the constitution it says that the governments purpose it to provide services.

Then according to you, we should have no cops or firemen, and only a military that has marshall law to protect us? Does the Constitution allow for a local police department or fire department? Or only a military?