Can pristine longevity, alone, make a player the GOAT of his sport?

[Papageorgio]

So the big show by LeBron on what team he'd play for was not ego driven? You serious or are you an apologist for James? LeBron wanted to trade all his team mates away last year for AD, that is the guy you want for a team mate? LeBron was such a good team mate that Irving asked to be traded.

Then there is this. lebron sits away from the team - Bing images

I'll take Jordan, you can have LeBron.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

So the big show by LeBron

Huh ??

What show?

Did you know that every player who is the best in his sport, has a right to reveal/announce his career moves to fans, by whatever means that pleases him?

Wow.

This is really, really peculiar of you, to have a problem with the way Lebron's announcement occurred ---but you likely have no problem with how he was approached by Walt Disney execs to do that broadcast.

He was reluctant and declined at first, but his KLUTCH SPORTS team eventually talked him into doing it. Lebron had one stipulation tho; profits from advertising $$$ had to go to charity. Why? Because that's how Lebron is. And I am not an apologist, for telling the truth, so I feel bad for your decision-making efficiency ---if you feel that telling the, truth, should somehow be frowned upon.

It's also very peculiar that you have a problem with Lebron's G-rated announcement but you have no problem with this:

LeBron wanted to trade all his team mates away last year for AD

uh, no. The city of L.A. did that. Jeannie Buss did that. Rob Pelinka & Magic Johnson did that. Magic & Rob told you, 3 years ago, that this was their plan. Are you blaming Lebron for the Lakers owner promising the city of L.A. that right now is the time, to make sure the Lakers are still playing when next June arrives?.... June 2020 or June 2021. And not tomorrow, as in June 2023 or 2024 when those young players get done maturing and growing into whatever they're going to become 4-5 years from now.

LeBron was such a good team mate that Irving asked to be traded.

lol

You do realize that you are using Kyrie in a way that invalidates your argument, right now? Since Kyrie came out/apologized to Lebron then admitted he was wrong, for how he blamed Lebron? He said the selfishness of the Celtics youngsters/inability to sacrifice for the team...made him realize how lucky he was to play with Lebron.

Then there is this. lebron sits away from the team - Bing images

ROFL @ you comparing a few frozen moments in time over 17 years ... whereas every game every day every team flight, for 14yrs, we know Jordan separated himself from his teammates ---who had to just *grin and bear it* when watching him live in an unfair, elevated bubble behind the scenes of the CHI Bulls franchise.

I'll take Jordan...

Promise?

 

[Papageorgio]

Jordan over James any day. As far as his big show in Cleveland, reluctant or not, as you claim, his ego was involved. Now, I don't care how you announce what team you signed with, but tell me which other star has used a special show, about himself to announce where he was going? It's called ego. It is all about King James. You got him.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT because he did the most women.

Oh, okay. "Doing women" is a sport, now?

Wilt Chamberlain also played pro basketball. He is arguably the GOAT even without considering all the women he did.

Wilt Chamberlain - Wikipedia

It is a toss between Wilt and Jordan...

Wilt single game record will never be passed...

Football is harder to have a GOAT and Baseball because of the different positions that can change a game but in Baseball it had to be Babe Ruth because no one could pitch or hit like he did...

 

[22lcidw]

Didn't Baseball have a player named Mario Mendoza that lasted near two decades or so and had a lifetime batting average of .200/.220 or around it? Anyone who has approached it in a season they named it the Mendoza line.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

... I don't care how you announce what team you signed with, but tell me which other star has used a special show, about himself to announce where he was going?

Your posts before this, already showed that you care a whole lot ---and you seem to comprehend that it makes no sense for you to delude to Lebron's announcement that way. At the same time you refuse to address the unchartered, colossal ego and greed and selfishness about Jordan.

Give me a holler, if you ever decide to be fair here.

 

[Papageorgio]

... I don't care how you announce what team you signed with, but tell me which other star has used a special show, about himself to announce where he was going?

Give me a holler, if you ever decide to be fair here.

And you do the same.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

... I don't care how you announce what team you signed with, but tell me which other star has used a special show, about himself to announce where he was going?

Give me a holler, if you ever decide to be fair here.

And you do the same.

Any one visiting this thread, can see, you went off-topic but I did not lambast you and I had no problem addressing each of your inaccuracies about Lebron. And they also can see how...

you refused to address realities/factual characteristics about Jordan which made him the most-selfish and the greediest teammate and most self-centered icon in the history of American sports.

 

[Papageorgio]

All is your opinion and most would disagree. You hate Jordan, I got.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

lol

... they also can see how... you refused to address realities/factual characteristics about Jordan which made him the most-selfish and the greediest teammate..

 

[Papageorgio]

Jordan 6-0 in the finals, six MVPs.

Jordan runs to the finals going through three 50 win teams or two 60 win teams in five of his six runs, James 0.

Scoring titles Jordan 10, James 0

Defensive Player of the Year Jordan 1, James 0.
First team All Defensive Team, Jordan 7, James 3.

Scoring titles, Jordan 10, James 0.

Shooting under 40% in the NBA Finals Jordan 0, James 2. (2007, 2012)

Playoff game winners/ties with 25 seconds or less left, Jordan 10-19 53%,
James 8-23 35%.

Finals game winners/ties with 25 seconds or less, Jordan 4-8 50%, James 0-6.

James played in the recruiting era, imagine if Jordan had done the same.

Eye test, Jordan.

 

[Manonthestreet]

There’s more to being the greatest than just longevity.

True. That's why I said longevity at an elite level, since you are correct that championships should not matter.

Longevity is what stands out because none of the consensus Top10 greatest NBA players of all time, played at an elite level for seventeen (17) straight seasons. Except for Lebron.

For me the eye test is what it’s about. Not one player I’ve witnessed impacted a game like Michael Jordan... Jordan was more prolific and unstoppable than LeBron...

I used to feel this same way.

Yes until I had to finally accept it that Jordan was very stoppable ---from 1985-'90 and in 1995 and from 2000-'02. Plus Jordan never lead his NBA teams to eight (8) straight NBA Finals.

And In terms of playing time/wear and tear on the body with respect to longevity... Lebron going to eight straight NBA Finals means, from 2011-'18, Lebron played 16 months more of basketball, than 90% of all players during that time span. Most notably players who didn't go to the playoffs (from 2011-'18) or never got past 1st round of playoffs during that time. And Lebron did all of that without needing to take 1.5yrs off twice like Jordan did in 1993 and 1998.

Maybe it just means there are less great players in the League now, maybe its a sign of how low NBA basketball has sunk

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

Eye test, Jordan.

You forgot a few things that our eyes saw

Better teammate... Lebron

Had to retire for 1.5yrs in '93, to get reenergized... Jordan

Better jump shooter... Lebron

Better 3pt shooter... Lebron

Better shot-blocker... Lebron

Better at physically fighting his own teammates... Jordan

Better passer... Lebron

Smarter player... Lebron

Took seven (7) years to finally make it to an NBA Finals... Jordan

Better rebounder... Lebron

Better floor general... Lebron

Had to retire, again, for 1.5yrs in '98 to get reenergized... Jordan

Barely avg 20pts per game in his 16th season... Jordan

Did avg 25/7/7 in his 16th seasons... Lebron

Better assists man... Lebron

Only the 2nd player in NBA history, to lead his teams to eight (8) straight NBA Finals... not Jordan

 

[Papageorgio]

Eye test, Jordan.

You forgot a few things that our eyes saw

Better teammate... Lebron

Had to retire for 1.5yrs in '93, to get reenergized... Jordan

Better jump shooter... Lebron

Better 3pt shooter... Lebron

Better shot-blocker... Lebron

Better at physically fighting his own teammates... Jordan

Better passer... Lebron

Smarter player... Lebron

Took seven (7) years to finally make it to an NBA Finals... Jordan

Better rebounder... Lebron

Better floor general... Lebron

Had to retire, again, for 1.5yrs in '98 to get reenergized... Jordan

Barely avg 20pts per game in his 16th season... Jordan

Did avg 25/7/7 in his 16th seasons... Lebron

Better assists man... Lebron

Only the 2nd player in NBA history, to lead his teams to eight (8) straight NBA Finals... not Jordan

So you are saying Bill Russell is the greatest of all time? Went 9-1 in NBA Finals.

Since Jordan played only 15 season, I would expect better stats from James.

James plays forward, so he should be a better rebounder.

Jordan had more steals.

Thanks anyway, you also included subjective BS which you were pissed at me at. Seems you are a hater. Let me know when your hate goes away.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

anyway... .

Nope. I never said Bill Russell was better than Lebron nor Jordan. And since Jordan had far more rest than Lebron, within retiring two (2) times/taking nearly 4yrs off, then Michael should have far superior numbers than Lebron and all other players ever.

And Jordan plays guard so he should be more unselfish and a better floor general and a better assist man and a better passer and a better 3pt shooter than Lebron ---but Jordan is none of those things.

Moreover, in staying on topic, with respect to pristine being the way to define legend's longevity; Jordan's longevity was pristine for nearly 49,000 minutes from 1984-2003, whereas Lebron's longevity is pristine for a little over 54,000 minutes ---and counting!

So since I did not include anything subjective, then thanks, for showing that whenever you can't transcend the, facts, then you start with personal attacks and being dishonest about what I clearly posted.

 

[Papageorgio]

anyway... .

Nope. I never said Bill Russell was better than Lebron nor Jordan. And since Jordan had far more rest than Lebron, within retiring two (2) times/taking nearly 4yrs off, then Michael should have far superior numbers than Lebron and all other players ever.

And Jordan plays guard so he should be more unselfish and a better floor general and a better assist man and a better passer and a better 3pt shooter than Lebron ---but Jordan is none of those things.

Moreover, in staying on topic, with respect to pristine being the way to define legend's longevity; Jordan's longevity was pristine for nearly 49,000 minutes from 1984-2003, whereas Lebron's longevity is pristine for a little over 54,000 minutes ---and counting!

So since I did not include anything subjective, then thanks, for showing that whenever you can't transcend the, facts, then you start with personal attacks and being dishonest about what I clearly posted.

More of your opinion, longevity doesn’t mean your the greatest. I’ll take Jordan over James. I’d be more confident in a win with the ball in Jordan’s hands than James. That is my opinion and you have said nothing to change it.

 

[DGS49]

Wilt was the most dominant basketball player, ever. No question about it. The only reason why he didn't score 50 points per game and 20 rebounds is because his coaches requested that he make room for others. And when he went to the Lakers, he VOLUNTARILY took a back seat to Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, for the good of the team.

Jordan was the most skilled player of his era. His combination of quickness, explosive jumping ability and shooting eye put him far above all the other great players of his era. And his record for team success is incredible. He took an average group of teammates and turned them into not only a championship team, but a dominant team. Scotty Pippin? Gimme a break. No more than a good player.

Lebron has a recent track record of team success that has never been equaled. He has twice taken mediocre teams to the NBA finals, and looks poised to do it again this year. And he does an excellent job of bringing out the best in his teammates. And it cannot be denied that the caliber of players in the NBA right now is the best ever, so his dominance at this time (and for such a long time) is significant.

I don't see any rational basis for choosing one of these players over another...and how can you leave Kareem out of this discussion? Bill Russell? George Mikan? Ten other guys.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

Wilt was the most dominant basketball player, ever. No question about it. The only reason why he didn't score 50 points per game and 20 rebounds is because his coaches requested that he make room for others. And when he went to the Lakers, he VOLUNTARILY took a back seat to Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, for the good of the team.

Jordan was the most skilled player of his era. His combination of quickness, explosive jumping ability and shooting eye put him far above all the other great players of his era. And his record for team success is incredible. He took an average group of teammates and turned them into not only a championship team, but a dominant team. Scotty Pippin? Gimme a break. No more than a good player.

Lebron has a recent track record of team success that has never been equaled. He has twice taken mediocre teams to the NBA finals, and looks poised to do it again this year. And he does an excellent job of bringing out the best in his teammates. And it cannot be denied that the caliber of players in the NBA right now is the best ever, so his dominance at this time (and for such a long time) is significant.

I don't see any rational basis for choosing one of these players over another...and how can you leave Kareem out of this discussion? Bill Russell? George Mikan? Ten other guys.

Cool.


Thanks for contributing.

 

[Papageorgio]

Russell was dominant 8 straight championships, 9-1 in finals in 13 years of play plus three collegiate years. Averaged a double double over his career.

For longevity, who could top Jabbar. Four years of collegiate play and three NCAA championships, his Freshman year he could not play Varsity. College Basketball Hall of Famer was a two-time Player of the Year, three-time First Team All-American, three-time national champion.

Twenty years in the NBA and 18 of those years his team made the playoffs. 10 Finals appearances He made the Allstar game 19 of those 20 years. Six time MVP, Six NBA Championships, 6 time first all defensive team, 5 time second all defensive team. Most points all time, First all time in blocked shots. Two time finals MVP.

24 years of basketball for Jabbar, just think if he could have come straight out of high school what his totals would be.

Jordan, Jabbar, James, Chamberlain, take your pick and you won't be far off the mark.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

... Jabbar. ...

Twenty years in the NBA and 18 of those years his team made the playoffs. 10 Finals appearances He made the Allstar game 19 of those 20 years...

...hmmmm...