Can pristine longevity, alone, make a player the GOAT of his sport?

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

Soccer Tennis and basketball might share one thing, on the pro level. And that being how those sports' greatest, most-commanding active players, are old farts. lol

Soccer currently has two (2) such players IMHO then the ATP likely has at least three, and the NBA has ... Lebron

This season makes seventeen (17) consecutive seasons that Lebron has played at an elite/All-NBA or All-Star level.

Did Michael Jordan accomplish that? Kobe? Wilt? Russell? Kareem? I think Lebron might be alone in this category. Should that make him the GOAT?

 

[JoeMoma]

Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT because he did the most women.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT because he did the most women.

Oh, okay. "Doing women" is a sport, now?

 

[JoeMoma]

Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT because he did the most women.

Oh, okay. "Doing women" is a sport, now?

Wilt Chamberlain also played pro basketball. He is arguably the GOAT even without considering all the women he did.

Wilt Chamberlain - Wikipedia

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Soccer is for children on cold weekend mornings. And I speak from experience.

 

[Rocko]

Soccer Tennis and basketball might share one thing, on the pro level. And that being how those sports' greatest, most-commanding active players, are old farts. lol

Soccer currently has two (2) such players IMHO then the ATP likely has at least three, and the NBA has ... Lebron

This season makes seventeen (17) consecutive seasons that Lebron has played at an elite/All-NBA or All-Star level.

Did Michael Jordan accomplish that? Kobe? Wilt? Russell? Kareem? I think Lebron might be alone in this category. Should that make him the GOAT?

There’s more to being the greatest than just longevity. You can’t really compare numbers because the game is played at a different pace. Even though everyone does, I don’t think you should make it about championships, because it’s a team sport. For me the eye test is what it’s about. Not one player I’ve witnessed impacted a game like Michael Jordan. LeBron has been most unselfish, I give him that, but Jordan was more prolific and unstoppable than LeBron, and more skilled as well overall, despite LeBron having better vision.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

There’s more to being the greatest than just longevity.

True. That's why I said longevity at an elite level, since you are correct that championships should not matter.

Longevity is what stands out because none of the consensus Top10 greatest NBA players of all time, played at an elite level for seventeen (17) straight seasons. Except for Lebron.

For me the eye test is what it’s about. Not one player I’ve witnessed impacted a game like Michael Jordan... Jordan was more prolific and unstoppable than LeBron...

I used to feel this same way.

Yes until I had to finally accept it that Jordan was very stoppable ---from 1985-'90 and in 1995 and from 2000-'02. Plus Jordan never lead his NBA teams to eight (8) straight NBA Finals.

And In terms of playing time/wear and tear on the body with respect to longevity... Lebron going to eight straight NBA Finals means, from 2011-'18, Lebron played 16 months more of basketball, than 90% of all players during that time span. Most notably players who didn't go to the playoffs (from 2011-'18) or never got past 1st round of playoffs during that time. And Lebron did all of that without needing to take 1.5yrs off twice like Jordan did in 1993 and 1998.

 

[Rocko]

There’s more to being the greatest than just longevity.

True. That's why I said longevity at an elite level, since you are correct that championships should not matter.

Longevity is what stands out because none of the consensus Top10 greatest NBA players of all time, played at an elite level for seventeen (17) straight seasons. Except for Lebron.

For me the eye test is what it’s about. Not one player I’ve witnessed impacted a game like Michael Jordan... Jordan was more prolific and unstoppable than LeBron...

I used to feel this same way.

Yes until I had to finally accept it that Jordan was very stoppable ---from 1985-'90 and in 1995 and from 2000-'02. Plus Jordan never lead his NBA teams to eight (8) straight NBA Finals.

And In terms of playing time/wear and tear on the body with respect to longevity... Lebron going to eight straight NBA Finals means, from 2011-'18, Lebron played 16 months more of basketball, than 90% of all players during that time span. Most notably players who didn't go to the playoffs (from 2011-'18) or never got past 1st round of playoffs during that time. And Lebron did all of that without needing to take 1.5yrs off twice like Jordan did in 1993 and 1998.

you’re agreeing with me that championships don’t matter, but then at the same you’re using the argument that LeBron made 8 straight eastern conference championships. It’s a team sport, all of that is irrelevant. Had LeBron not created super teams he wouldn’t have gone to the finals 8 straight times. Yes, LeBron was elite for a longer period of time, however when Jordan was elite his level of greatness was superior to Lebron’s.

 

[Rocko]

Either way it’s subjective

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

you’re agreeing with me that championships don’t matter, but then at the same you’re using the argument that LeBron made 8 straight eastern conference championships. It’s a team sport, all of that is irrelevant.

No. Not irrelevant as within terms of longevity in playing 16months, more, than all players who did not play into June for 8 straight years. And considering him playing at an elite level is what mattered, I didn't mention winning any titles.

Had LeBron not created super teams he wouldn’t have gone to the finals 8 straight times.

Larry Bird had a superteam so did Showtime Lakers and Jordan had a super team for his 2nd 3peat, so...I don't see how that is relevant.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT because he did the most women.

Other than that whole AIDS thing.....

 

[JoeMoma]

Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT because he did the most women.

Other than that whole AIDS thing.....

'cept he didn't have aids.

https://www.quora.com/Did-Wilt-Chamberlain-ever-get-aids

 

[Oddball]

Let's ask Gordie Howe.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT because he did the most women.

Other than that whole AIDS thing.....

'cept he didn't have aids.

https://www.quora.com/Did-Wilt-Chamberlain-ever-get-aids

Oh thats right...
That was the not so Magic Johnson.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

Gordie Howe.

...hmmm...

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

Gordie easily wins if it's only about longevity which is not, pristine, since Gordie's last 10+years of his career ... history says, he was sort of mediocre as a player. Including 1977-'80 he was usually an overall liability on the ice, so he was a situational player.

 

[Papageorgio]

I think Jordan was a better player than James. Jordan played and elevated the players around him, James not as much.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

...Jordan played and elevated the players around him, James not as much.

I think facts and history show differently. They show that Jordan was the absolute, worst, at elevating his teammates play/making his teammates better.

Jordan was a ballhog every game. Jordan wanted all of the credit so he often physically beat up his own, teammates, to make sure that they never felt too confident and too esteemed. Yes, as proven by how Pippen is really the only player who got better as Jordan's teammate ---every other teammate had to play as a shell of themselves or just dedicate to playing conservatively, in order to not get in the way of Jordan's greed and relentlessly-selfish nature. That's why it took Jordan eight (8) seasons to make it to his first NBA Finals; too selfish and greedy.

Jordan didn't even sit with his teammates on the airplane flights, he had his own private area. plus .... Did you know about what Jordan did to, Craig Hodges, during the trip to the WH to meet Bush41 after the Bulls won the 1992 chip?

...

Whereas Lebron is so, so selfless, to whereas every season you can see where he tried to make his teammates better. Especially when he tried, too hard, and his teammates never could deliver for him from 2006-'10 ...
Plus the 2016 NBA Finals consisted of Kyrie having more FGA than Lebron, and that is a window into Lebron's selflessness.

To keep his teammates confident and to make each teammate feel that they are, special, Lebron creates a unique exclusive handshake with each one. He does it everywhere he goes too, CLE MIA and in L.A. ... Jordan used to avoid his teammates so to keep them submissive and afraid of him.

 

[Papageorgio]

...Jordan played and elevated the players around him, James not as much.

I think facts and history show differently. They show that Jordan was the absolute, worst, at elevating his teammates play/making his teammates better.

Jordan was a ballhog every game. Jordan wanted all of the credit so he often physically beat up his own, teammates, to make sure that they never felt too confident and too esteemed. Yes, as proven by how Pippen is really the only player who got better as Jordan's teammate ---every other teammate had to play as a shell of themselves or just dedicate to playing conservatively, in order to not get in the way of Jordan's greed and relentlessly-selfish nature. That's why it took Jordan eight (8) seasons to make it to his first NBA Finals; too selfish and greedy.

Jordan didn't even sit with his teammates on the airplane flights, he had his own private area. plus .... Did you know about what Jordan did to, Craig Hodges, during the trip to the WH to meet Bush41 after the Bulls won the 1992 chip?

...

Whereas Lebron is so, so selfless, to whereas every season you can see where he tried to make his teammates better. Especially when he tried, too hard, and his teammates never could deliver for him from 2006-'10 ...
Plus the 2016 NBA Finals consisted of Kyrie having more FGA than Lebron, and that is a window into Lebron's selflessness.

To keep his teammates confident and to make each teammate feel that they are, special, Lebron creates a unique exclusive handshake with each one. He does it everywhere he goes too, CLE MIA and in L.A. ... Jordan used to avoid his teammates so to keep them submissive and afraid of him.

James’ ego destroyed last years Laker team. His ego hurt the Cavs both times he signed. I don’t give a damn about unique handshakes, that doesn’t win you games. Wilt was the second best player I ever saw.

 

[Ethos Logos Pathos]

James’ ego destroyed last years Laker team. His ego hurt the Cavs both times he signed. I don’t give a damn about unique handshakes, that doesn’t win you games. Wilt was the second best player I ever saw.

James' ego did not exist in, CLE, as proven by him returning to CLE after Dan Gilbert's racist, life-changing letter. I DONT KNOW any self-respecting person who would go back to work for such an employer. Plus James' ego did not exist in the 2016 NBA Finals, when he let Kyrie lead the scoring onslaught during crunchtime of games 6 & 7.

And James' ego could not possibly have destroyed last year's team. James' groin injury and Magic's inability to pull off the AD trade, is what destroyed last year's team. The Lakers were a 5th-6th seed before Lebron got injured ---and missed the most games of his career.

And you are correct, handshakes don't win you games ---but handshakes sure can create the self-confidence that a leader needs to instill within the 'lesser' players needed to help win games. Lebron is the best, at that. Whereas Jordan was the best at fighting/belittling his teammates and making them feel too scared to ever relax as his teammate.