Zone1 Bible passages that are difficult to understand God

[Votto]

Lincoln wasnt an infant. Or an innocent woman or child. Or a fuckin animal.

What if you knew a child would grow up to be Lincoln and make the decisions he would make?

If you were God, would you have struck down Lincoln as an infant?

 

[TNHarley]

It is far different than say, Hamas, targeting women and children for slaughter.

No, God specifically said to kill them. It is not different. It is the exact same.

 

[TNHarley]

What if you knew a child would grow up to be Lincoln and make the decisions he would make?

If you were God, would you have struck down Lincoln as an infant?

So God knew those children would do the same thing?
Ok then. So, logically, he knew their parents were going to be like that when they were born. So why did he let it manifest? Is god a sadist?

 

[Votto]

No, God specifically said to kill them. It is not different. It is the exact same.

But the reason they were there was to exterminate an wicked culture. The goal was never to eradicate the innocent.

Again, if God knew they would all grow up to be just as wicked, why would this not be justified?

The problem for me is, why does God not strike down all the wicked before they are able to cause such harm to society, like a Hitler? Why does he show mercy to the wicked?

Then again, if he didn't, would any of us be here?

Dunno.

 

[Votto]

So God knew those children would do the same thing?
Ok then. So, logically, he knew their parents were going to be like that when they were born. So why did he let it manifest? Is god a sadist?

If God showed zero mercy to the sinner humanity would have ceased to be long ago.

However, if he does not judge the wicked, then society would destroy itself, like it almost did before the Great Flood.

 

[Votto]

God has only targeted one righteous man for suffering and death as we read in Isaiah 53.

He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

For the Jew, they think God is targeting a mortal man in prophesy, but from a Christian view, God was targeting his own flesh and blood in his son for our sins as a sacrifice for us all.

 

[TNHarley]

If God showed zero mercy to the sinner humanity would have ceased to be long ago.

However, if he does not judge the wicked, then society would destroy itself, like it almost did before the Great Flood.

Ignore my point. Thats fine.

 

[Votto]

Ignore my point. Thats fine.

I did not ignore it.

God has appointed a time of mercy for sinful man, but there is a limit.

There is a limit in terms of the magnitude of wickedness they area allowed to engage in, and there is a limit in terms of time as to how long he will let it go on.

I don't pretend to understand all of his decisions on such matters because I don't. However, I believe all of his efforts reside in trying to eradicate sin best he can and not man without destroying their free will.

When Christ came, it ushered in a new era of trying to preserve the sinner while sparing their life.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes I have. And it doesnt justify murdering innocent people, especially infants, ON PURPOSE. Especially animals.
My gawd, woman. WTF
God is no better than they were.

So...it was okay for the Amalekites to raid and kill babies, but not those whom they preyed upon to do the same? Keep in mind, this was back in the day of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Why so willing to give a pass to the Amalekites who had been doing this to the Israelites for decades, but when the Israelites retaliate, all of a sudden a cease fire is called for?

 

[TNHarley]

I did not ignore it.

God has appointed a time of mercy for sinful man, but there is a limit.

There is a limit in terms of the magnitude of wickedness they area allowed to engage in, and there is a limit in terms of time as to how long he will let it go on.

I don't pretend to understand all of his decisions on such matters because I don't. However, I believe all of his efforts reside in trying to eradicate sin best he can and not man without destroying their free will.

When Christ came, it ushered in a new era of trying to preserve the sinner while sparing their life.

So he let the wickedness manifest, just to kill them and infants in the end?

 

[TNHarley]

So...it was okay for the Amalekites to raid and kill babies, but not those whom they preyed upon to do the same? Keep in mind, this was back in the day of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Why so willing to give a pass to the Amalekites who had been doing this to the Israelites for decades, but when the Israelites retaliate, all of a sudden a cease fire is called for?

Im not giving them a pass. The discussion is about god murdering infants, innocent people and animals.

 

[Meriweather]

So God knew those children would do the same thing?
Ok then. So, logically, he knew their parents were going to be like that when they were born. So why did he let it manifest? Is god a sadist?

Look at the entire story. The people, even the ones God chose to redirect the world, are imperfect. If the world and its people were progressing as planned, would God have needed to choose a group of people He insisted be kept apart from the rest of the people?

The world was a fierce place to live, and to turn this around meant winning the fight against a predator people who were sacrificing children to idols. What kind of world would you want, and what would you do to help shape it into something better?

 

[Meriweather]

Im not giving them a pass. The discussion is about god murdering infants, innocent people and animals.

The discussion is about reshaping an unholy, corrupt world into the best it could be. Mankind was killing its own children and that was shrugged off, but let God do it and suddenly people pay attention. What does that tell us? Could it be that in our own hearts we know killing children and babies is very wrong? If so...what are we doing about babies/children being killed today? Seems to me, many are back to shrugging their shoulders.

 

[TNHarley]

Look at the entire story. The people, even the ones God chose to redirect the world, are imperfect. If the world and its people were progressing as planned, would God have needed to choose a group of people He insisted be kept apart from the rest of the people?

The world was a fierce place to live, and to turn this around meant winning the fight against a predator people who were sacrificing children to idols. What kind of world would you want, and what would you do to help shape it into something better?

So the great creators answer to bad people was to act worse than them? lol

 

[TNHarley]

The discussion is about reshaping an unholy, corrupt world into the best it could be. Mankind was killing its own children and that was shrugged off, but let God do it and suddenly people pay attention. What does that tell us? Could it be that in our own hearts we know killing children and babies is very wrong? If so...what are we doing about babies/children being killed today? Seems to me, many are back to shrugging their shoulders.

Yeah, his plan worked, huh? The great creator failed. AGAIN.

 

[Meriweather]

So the great creators answer to bad people was to act worse than them? lol

No. Judgment/consequences should not be dismissed.

In today's world, some are certain that judgment and consequences are unfair to those who commit crimes. What say you about judgment and consequences.

Are you aware when the Israelites marched into the Promised Land, there were some areas God did not allow them to touch. In others, they had to first offer terms of peace.

 

[Meriweather]

Yeah, his plan worked, huh? The great creator failed. AGAIN.

God is still working with us. Go is still calling to all. It's not as if there has not be progress...

 

[TNHarley]

No. Judgment/consequences should not be dismissed.

In today's world, some are certain that judgment and consequences are unfair to those who commit crimes. What say you about judgment and consequences.

Are you aware when the Israelites marched into the Promised Land, there were some areas God did not allow them to touch. In others, they had to first offer terms of peace.

consequences for INFANTS? Good grief

 

[TNHarley]

God is still working with us. Go is still calling to all. It's not as if there has not be progress...

mmm ok lolz

 

[Votto]

So he let the wickedness manifest, just to kill them and infants in the end?

Abraham had the same problem in Genesis 18

16 When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. 17 Then the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.[a] 19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”
20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”
22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[b] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[c] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”
27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”
“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”
29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”
He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”
30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”
He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”
31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”
He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”
32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”
He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”
33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

Moses even had the same problem in Exodus

11 Then Moses pleaded with [a]the Lord his God, and said: “Lord, why does Your wrath burn hot against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, ‘He brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth’? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and relent from this harm to Your people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self, and said to them, ‘I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.’ ” 14 So the Lord relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.

Although God relented from destroying them in this example in the short term, he made them walk around in the wilderness till they all died off in the long term, and then entered the Promised land.

Both holy men struggled with God to try and save lives. In fact, the world Israel means to struggle with God.

However, in both examples God was struggling with man to eradicate the sin and not the people.