Zone1 Bible passages that are difficult to understand God

[Meriweather]

Are there Bible passages where you find it difficult to understand God...How could God have done that, how could God have said that? If so, maybe we can look at these more closely and have a respectful discussion of why they bother us so much.

 

[JoeB131]

I've tried that with you, and it became kind of fruitless.

But let's start with my personal favorites.

Judges 11. - Jephthah makes a foolish Oath, and has to slaughter his daughter as a burnt offering to God.

2 Kings 2 - Children mock a bald prophet, and God sics a couple of she bears on them, mauling 42 of them.

Exodus 12 - God kills the first born child of every family in Egypt.

These things don't "bother" me in the context that the people writing the Old Testament saw "God" as every force of nature they didn't understand. But they are difficult to reconcile with the supposed God of Christianity that loves everyone.

 

[Chillicothe]

"....maybe we can look at these more closely and have a respectful discussion of why they bother us so much.

OK, lemme start out with my belief that "the Bible" is a collection of folk wisdom/tales/experiences, and so on.
Some say it is the "Word-of-God".

I say it is more akin to Zodiac signs...to your horoscope.
Meaning, it is broad enough, long enough, vague enough, that one can read into it any darn thing they want.

Does that mean there is no good stuff in 'the Bible'?
Oh hell, no.
There is.

Some parts of the Bible's collection of old tales and advisories can serve as useful guides for a human society to work. Who cannot agree that societies are more effective when folks don't steal from each other, don't kill each other, don't screw their neighbor's spouse?

But then, there is also some nutsocrazo stuff that most 'Gods' today......don't want tagged onto their 'brand', e.g. stoning to death folks for non-marital sex; smashing your enemy's infants heads against walls. And so on.
And those advisories about stealing the enemy's women are the vestiges of the old-timey times when the various passages of bible were written (Over thousands of years; it wasn't a one week sit-down with a word-processor).

So the Bible is like your Horoscope. Use with caution. Don't believe everything you read.

 

[Votto]

I've tried that with you, and it became kind of fruitless.

But let's start with my personal favorites.

Judges 11. - Jephthah makes a foolish Oath, and has to slaughter his daughter as a burnt offering to God.

2 Kings 2 - Children mock a bald prophet, and God sics a couple of she bears on them, mauling 42 of them.

Exodus 12 - God kills the first born child of every family in Egypt.

These things don't "bother" me in the context that the people writing the Old Testament saw "God" as every force of nature they didn't understand. But they are difficult to reconcile with the supposed God of Christianity that loves everyone.

Judges 11. No where did God tell him to make such a foolish oath. Notice the Bible says it is a foolish oath. Further, God does not tell him to carry out the oath. Guess what, he was an idiot. As such, he wins a cookie.

2 Kings 2. People die every day, even people who seem to be good people. This is the bane of religious theology. How do we come to terms with a loving God overseeing a world of death and suffering? However, for those not of faith, it is far worse. How do you explain everything else? What I will say, however, is that in this world, if certain people die the world becomes a better place for the rest. That is the sad part that only God has the wisdom to understand. And guess what, death was the only way out of this life anyway.

Exodus 12. The Egyptians killed the first born of Israel before this. Ever heard of an eye for an eye? That was what was being followed here. What would a Soros appointed DA do after the Egyptians slaughtered all those babies? They would be out on the streets the next day. Is that better or worse in your opinion?

 

[TNHarley]

"Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

 

[Votto]

OK, lemme start out with my belief that "the Bible" is a collection of folk wisdom/tales/experiences, and so on.
Some say it is the "Word-of-God".

I say it is more akin to Zodiac signs...to your horoscope.
Meaning, it is broad enough, long enough, vague enough, that one can read into it any darn thing they want.

Does that mean there is no good stuff in 'the Bible'?
Oh hell, no.
There is.

Some parts of the Bible's collection of old tales and advisories can serve as useful guides for a human society to work. Who cannot agree that societies are more effective when folks don't steal from each other, don't kill each other, don't screw their neighbor's spouse?

But then, there is also some nutsocrazo stuff that most 'Gods' today......don't want tagged onto their 'brand', e.g. stoning to death folks for non-marital sex; smashing your enemy's infants heads against walls. And so on.
And those advisories about stealing the enemy's women are the vestiges of the old-timey times when the various passages of bible were written (Over thousands of years; it wasn't a one week sit-down with a word-processor).

So the Bible is like your Horoscope. Use with caution. Don't believe everything you read.

You need to show a little respect for the Bible. Any idea how rare it is for a written manuscript to even be written, let alone survive the onslaught of time? Not many exist. For example, the Bible was the only historical text that told us about the Philistines existing. They simply read in the Bible where they should have been and dug and found them. This is why there is a scientific field of Biblical Archeology. The Bible has enough veracity to use it to find digs.

Secondly, no other religion has an account of creation as accurate as the one found in Genesis, not even close. For example, a purple cow did not have sex with a green Rhino as they pooped out the sun and moon, etc. The Bible follows the proper order of creation and in a sane manner. Again, this was written by goat herders, and as such, is amazing.

And lastly, the morality of an eye for an eye is a way to try and deal out justice and maintain civility. But Left wingers like yourself would rather let the unruly run free and destroy a civil society. Personally, I think a justice system that employes capital punishment and corporal punishment superior to locking people up where they learn to become worse human beings and then let them back into society again, all to the tune of trillions of taxpayer dollars.

 

[Votto]

"Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

I took care of that yesterday.

Thanks for asking.



Interestingly, your avatar is a man who murdered Lincoln.

Care to elaborate on that?

 

[Votto]

I was watching Schindler's List the other day, and I remember seeing a scene in the movie where Russians entered a concentration camp that exterminated Jews and just began hanging people who ran it.

I sat there thinking, could I do that? Looking around, what is there even to say or do, other than what they did.

The world was truly better without them.

 

[Meriweather]

I've tried that with you, and it became kind of fruitless.

But let's start with my personal favorites.

Judges 11. - Jephthah makes a foolish Oath, and has to slaughter his daughter as a burnt offering to God.

2 Kings 2 - Children mock a bald prophet, and God sics a couple of she bears on them, mauling 42 of them.

Exodus 12 - God kills the first born child of every family in Egypt.

These things don't "bother" me in the context that the people writing the Old Testament saw "God" as every force of nature they didn't understand. But they are difficult to reconcile with the supposed God of Christianity that loves everyone.

Good morning, Joe. Good to see you!

Let's recall what you learned from these stories.

Judges: People should not make improper oaths, or carry them out, which some traditions maintain did not happen.

2 Kings 2 - The word for 'children' was also the word used for males--Absalom, for example, or young men going into battle. The story is about right worship versus false worship in the city.

Exodus: Where is your outrage over all the Hebrew males the Egyptian killed? Already went over that the number of Egyptian males killed on that first Passover, was well short of the number of male Hebrew babies that were killed. Why not argue God should have matched the same number of male Hebrew babies killed?

 

[TNHarley]

Interestingly, your avatar is a man who murdered Lincoln.

Care to elaborate on that?

He was a great American Patriot. What else needs to be said?
Sic Semper Tyrannis

 

[Meriweather]

"Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

This was a tribe that had been harassing the Israelites, stalking the old, women, and children. They were also a tribe of what we might call "Influencers" today, and the problem is that the Amalekites would draw the Israelites from the way God had chosen them to follow.

 

[TNHarley]

This was a tribe that had been harassing the Israelites, stalking the old, women, and children. They were also a tribe of what we might call "Influencers" today, and the problem is that the Amalekites would draw the Israelites from the way God had chosen them to follow.

I know the story. Doesnt make it ok.
He even wanted the animals dead FFS. IDK how you people can worship something like that.
If that was a human, he would be the most hated man on earth. But god rules by the sword and casts fear into everyones hearts, so you people worship him anyway. Blows my mind.

 

[JoeB131]

Judges 11. No where did God tell him to make such a foolish oath. Notice the Bible says it is a foolish oath. Further, God does not tell him to carry out the oath. Guess what, he was an idiot. As such, he wins a cookie.

Except- God did give him the victory he asked for over the Ammonites. (Which no doubt involved a lot more slaughter.) Keep in mind, God knew how this was going to turn out. He knew Jephthah would win and he knew his daughter would be the first living thing he met. So Jephthah didn't think this through, but God sure did.

2 Kings 2. People die every day, even people who seem to be good people. This is the bane of religious theology. How do we come to terms with a loving God overseeing a world of death and suffering? However, for those not of faith, it is far worse. How do you explain everything else? What I will say, however, is that in this world, if certain people die the world becomes a better place for the rest. That is the sad part that only God has the wisdom to understand. And guess what, death was the only way out of this life anyway.

That wasn't the point of the story. The point was that these children made fun of a bald prophet, and he cursed them, and God sent two she-bears to maul 42 of them (A very specific number) faster than you can say, "Hair Club For Men".

Exodus 12. The Egyptians killed the first born of Israel before this. Ever heard of an eye for an eye? That was what was being followed here. What would a Soros appointed DA do after the Egyptians slaughtered all those babies? They would be out on the streets the next day. Is that better or worse in your opinion?

Actually, the Egyptians only killed babies born on a certain time period- supposedly - at the order of the Pharoah. 40 years later, the children who died certainly weren't responsible for that.

 

[JoeB131]

Good morning, Joe. Good to see you!

Let's recall what you learned from these stories.

Judges: People should not make improper oaths, or carry them out, which some traditions maintain did not happen.

Or more likely, they were pasting over a story of a human sacrifice from a period when human sacrifice was quite common. Kind of like how they edit old films to get rid of all the racially offensive stuff, but some of it has to be left in.

The Greeks did this, too, rewriting myths about Iphangenia and Pelops to hide that their old gods like some human sacrifice until they decided they were above that sort of thing.

2 Kings 2 - The word for 'children' was also the word used for males--Absalom, for example, or young men going into battle. The story is about right worship versus false worship in the city.

Not seeing how that makes it okay if they were teens. They made fun of a bald person. My idiot brother makes fun of my bald head every thanksgiving.

Exodus: Where is your outrage over all the Hebrew males the Egyptian killed? Already went over that the number of Egyptian males killed on that first Passover, was well short of the number of male Hebrew babies that were killed. Why not argue God should have matched the same number of male Hebrew babies killed?

Not really.

The Hebrews were a small minority in Egypt (there's actually no evidence that they ever lived in Egypt at all, but let's leave that to the side.) EVERY first born child died in the Tenth Plague (on top of all the people who died as a result of the first nine).

 

[Meriweather]

I know the story. Doesnt make it ok.
He even wanted the animals dead FFS. IDK how you people can worship something like that.
If that was a human, he would be the most hated man on earth. But god rules by the sword and casts fear into everyones hearts, so you people worship him anyway. Blows my mind.

Have you considered the entire story? The Amalekites were preying on men who were weakened either by injury or age. They were preying on women and children. They were killing children, including their own, sacrificing them to idols.

Think about his. God has always met us where we are. At that time, you were of a people who were predators and who killed their own children. God was calling for this way of life to be completely abolished to the point it would influence no others.

Basically, you are saying God should have simply allowed all people to act as the Amalekites, being predators, raping women, killing children.
This not only tells us about the Amalekites, it tells us what God knew of the Israelites--easily influenced.

 

[Meriweather]

The Hebrews were a small minority in Egypt (there's actually no evidence that they ever lived in Egypt at all, but let's leave that to the side.) EVERY first born child died in the Tenth Plague (on top of all the people who died as a result of the first nine).

And that's what puzzles me. If every first born died, wasn't Pharaoh (being Pharaoh) the first born? Or did he have an older brother who had already died. Reminds me I've often wanted to research this question.

 

[TNHarley]

Have you considered the entire story? The Amalekites were preying on men who were weakened either by injury or age. They were preying on women and children. They were killing children, including their own, sacrificing them to idols.

Think about his. God has always met us where we are. At that time, you were of a people who were predators and who killed their own children. God was calling for this way of life to be completely abolished to the point it would influence no others.

Basically, you are saying God should have simply allowed all people to act as the Amalekites, being predators, raping women, killing children.
This not only tells us about the Amalekites, it tells us what God knew of the Israelites--easily influenced.

Yes I have. And it doesnt justify murdering innocent people, especially infants, ON PURPOSE. Especially animals.
My gawd, woman. WTF
God is no better than they were.

 

[Votto]

He was a great American Patriot. What else needs to be said?
Sic Semper Tyrannis

So, you agree that some people need to die, that the world would be a better place without them.

Your only beef is, your wisdom is superior to God's on such matters.

 

[TNHarley]

So, you agree that some people need to die, that the world would be a better place without them.

Your only beef is, your wisdom is superior to God's on such matters.

Lincoln wasnt an infant. Or an innocent woman or child. Or a fuckin animal.

 

[Votto]

Yes I have. And it doesnt justify murdering innocent people, especially infants, ON PURPOSE. Especially animals.
My gawd, woman. WTF
God is no better than they were.

God only cast judgement on the wicked.

For example, the men of Sodom in Genesis would gang rape anyone who entered, and did God only knows what else.

The people of Caanan would sacrifice their infants and children to the gods for personal gain, and again, just a little we know about them as well.

However, when the Israelites turned to the Canaanite gods and acted the same way, God passed the same judgement upon them.

God's judgement has never been on the innocent, even though the innocent get caught in the crossfire as they do in any war. It is far different than say, Hamas, targeting women and children for slaughter.