Before Racing To National Healthcare: Listen

[Harry Dresden]

Guess what, everyone stands in line to get health care. I had to wait 6 weeks to get an injection in my back to relieve extreme pain and I have Kaiser.

Trying to scare people about the availablity of healthcare with a single payer system isn't working anymore. I've met and talked to quite a few people from Canada and Europe (Britain and Sweden) who report no wait times for emergency care.

Was that 6 weeks for emergency care?
I call bullshit.

I had extreme pain shooting dowm my leg (sciatica). It was completly dibilitating. I would wake from a dead sleep in so much pain that it brought me to tears. After four weeks of taking endocet I was becoming addicted yet I had to wait for my back injection. I would call it an emergency, but I had to wait.

a Chiropractor would have taken a good deal of your pain away with one treatment.....3-4 total and your done....4 years into my "mail-delivery" career the same thing happened to me....was limping badly...pain was 8 on a scale of 10....and not getting any better....went to a regular doc. at least 6-7 times that month....had Kaiser at time.....they were stumped and nothing they gave me was working....lady i knew kept telling me go see a Chiro.....reluctantly i went,but was desperate...after my first exam he said i have sciatica,and he can help....this was monday,by friday i was a new man....fucking Kaiser Docs were stumped,they NEVER heard of Sciatica?....Doctors from the Inquisition at Kaiser....back adjustments ,was as simple as that....been going to this same guy now for 26 years.......

 

[alan1]

a Chiropractor would have taken a good deal of your pain away with one treatment.....3-4 total and your done....4 years into my "mail-delivery" career the same thing happened to me....was limping badly...pain was 8 on a scale of 10....and not getting any better....went to a regular doc. at least 6-7 times that month....had Kaiser at time.....they were stumped and nothing they gave me was working....lady i knew kept telling me go see a Chiro.....reluctantly i went,but was desperate...after my first exam he said i have sciatica,and he can help....this was monday,by friday i was a new man....fucking Kaiser Docs were stumped,they NEVER heard of Sciatica?....Doctors from the Inquisition at Kaiser....back adjustments ,was as simple as that....been going to this same guy now for 26 years.......

Sorry, just can't help myself.
3-4 treatments and your done? Then why the fuck are you still seeing him after 26 years? Are the treatments 8-9 years apart?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Was that 6 weeks for emergency care?
I call bullshit.

I had extreme pain shooting dowm my leg (sciatica). It was completly dibilitating. I would wake from a dead sleep in so much pain that it brought me to tears. After four weeks of taking endocet I was becoming addicted yet I had to wait for my back injection. I would call it an emergency, but I had to wait.

Haha, sciatica.
A far cry from an emergency like a compound fracture or a bleeding eyeball. The fact that you want compare a sciatica to an actual emergency medical need is ridiculous.

it isnt when you cant fucking walk.....and if you walked for a living....ITS A FUCKING EMERGENCY...

 

[Harry Dresden]

The facts are clear. 50-60 MILLION americans have NO health care liver, kidney transplants 60 years old or anything.

and how many of those are NOT americans?.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

There are ways to get around the question of assets BEFORE someone is placed in a nursing home. Real simple ways, like transferring wealth to trusts or selling real property to family members beforehand. If an elderly person is all alone anyway and has a serious illness, I doubt s/he would care whether the government takes the assets or not. I sure wouldn't. I can't spend it immobilized or dead.

you have to transfer those things LONG before they are getting bad,not when it happens.....we tried ......

 

[alan1]

I had extreme pain shooting dowm my leg (sciatica). It was completly dibilitating. I would wake from a dead sleep in so much pain that it brought me to tears. After four weeks of taking endocet I was becoming addicted yet I had to wait for my back injection. I would call it an emergency, but I had to wait.

Haha, sciatica.
A far cry from an emergency like a compound fracture or a bleeding eyeball. The fact that you want compare a sciatica to an actual emergency medical need is ridiculous.

it isnt when you cant fucking walk.....and if you walked for a living....ITS A FUCKING EMERGENCY...

No, it isn't.
Posting in caps doesn't change that.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Tell that to returning Iraqi vets and their families.

you mean the ones Obama suggested should pay for their own Ins.?

As is the customary misinterpretation by pubbies, that wasn't what it was all about. The intent (which never got off the ground, by the way) was so that the veterans didn't have to wait forever for the VA to get through its own red tape. But the whole thing got twisted by the Foxhounds who, of course, take everything they say as gospel.

you believe that BS if you want Maggie,as Commander in Chief ....HE SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAVE MENTIONED SOMETHING LIKE THAT... you might as well sign up for Bobo's class ......Bobo 101....hurry its filling fast.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Here is the problem. In the US, we pay twice as much for healthcare as most countries with universal healthcare. We are not receiving value for our money. At the same time, these countries with universal healthcare are not paying enough, and therefore they suffer by not receiving adequate and timely care.

The answer lies somewhere between their system and ours, where costs should play a factor in healthcare, but it should not be the determining factor. People in countries such as Canada and most of Europe, are not going to receive better care without paying more. We, on the other hand, should be able to find a way to reduce costs somewhat, while still maintaining excellent care.

the things said about the US system,i can agree with much of that....

 

[Harry Dresden]

What facts?....more than half of those millions you whine about are ILLEGAL ALIENS....if we got rid of them our medical costs would plummet.....and we'd go back to having good, reasonably priced, top-of-the-line American health care...

8-20 mill anyway.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Haha, sciatica.
A far cry from an emergency like a compound fracture or a bleeding eyeball. The fact that you want compare a sciatica to an actual emergency medical need is ridiculous.

it isnt when you cant fucking walk.....and if you walked for a living....ITS A FUCKING EMERGENCY...

No, it isn't.
Posting in caps doesn't change that.

MM...are you talking about waiting in an emergency room or just going to see a doctor?......my answers are about going to see a DOC., in his office,and how long it takes, NOT waiting in an emergency room.....obviously a bleeding eye or a broken bone is more serious....

 

[Cecilie1200]

Pool WHO's resources ???????????

Yours.

Yeah, Heaven Forbid you should be asked to contribute to the health and welfare of the citizens of your country. Since you got yours, fuck no.

Damned right, Heaven forbid I should be FORCED to contribute to you. I got mine, go get your own, and get over the idea that you and other, greedy strangers like you have any right to take away from the people I actually care about.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Giving it away? Hey we will be paying taxes to pay for it. Nothing going to be given away. The difference is that there will not be a middle man (insurance companies) taking a cut for doing nothing. All the money will go to medical expenses instead of fat cat corporate CEOs.

Why is it that right wingers love to get screwed by big buisness?

"All the money will go to medical expenses" rather than "middle men taking a cut for doing nothing"? Which government are YOU talking about? And what color is the sky on your planet?

Why is it that left wingers love to get screwed by big government?

Where does it go now? Why do insurance premiums continue to rise on average of 7% annually to the point they are prohibitive just for basics and then with a huge deductible at the outset? Do you people EVER actually look into facts?

Yes, we do. We're looking at the fact that the government has never in its entire existence lowered the cost of anything it was involved in. And the fact that it's not exactly famous for its streamlined efficiency and customer service. AND the fact that once you start a government program, it's damned hard to get rid of if you decide it's a bad idea down the road.

 

[Annie]

"All the money will go to medical expenses" rather than "middle men taking a cut for doing nothing"? Which government are YOU talking about? And what color is the sky on your planet?

Why is it that left wingers love to get screwed by big government?

Where does it go now? Why do insurance premiums continue to rise on average of 7% annually to the point they are prohibitive just for basics and then with a huge deductible at the outset? Do you people EVER actually look into facts?

Yes, we do. We're looking at the fact that the government has never in its entire existence lowered the cost of anything it was involved in. And the fact that it's not exactly famous for its streamlined efficiency and customer service. AND the fact that once you start a government program, it's damned hard to get rid of if you decide it's a bad idea down the road.

Just curious, why would an intelligent person spend 6-10 years beyond college to specialize in medicine when the outcome is beyond the known?

 

[Seraega]

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

Idiot leftist

#1 - Not all people pay income taxes.... this is an undisputed FACT
#2 - FICA goes to something SPECIFIC, does it not?
#3 - Property tax is not assessed by the federal government... but nice try
#4 - If you don't OWN property you don't PAY property tax
#5 - Any use of taxation for individual care of adults would have it that some are paying more for the same care, than others. I do not see anyone calling for the same AMOUNT of tax to be taken from every person to pay for the same PRODUCT or SERIES of PRODUCTS
#6 - By the nature of what is proposed, those who sit and earn nothing would be sapping off of the rest of the taxpaying citizenry

And once again.. as an adult in a country based on freedom and liberty... NOBODY FUCKING OWES YOU A GODDAMN THING TOWARDS YOUR PERSONAL CARE OR WELL BEING

Oh... and BTW... we have a little thing called a constitution in this republic that keeps us from inherently suffering the tyranny of pure democracy and the whim of the masses... and that is one thing the little extreme lefties such as yourself cannot seem to understand

Please get out your constitution and read about the general welfare clause, the taxing and spending clause... read Alexander Hamilton in the federalist papers, US vs. Butler....

You guys are raving lunatics that have no eduation to back up your meme of "OMG OMG We have a constitution! You're shitting on the constitution!!!!!!111!!!"

Promoting the general welfare and providing for it are 2 different things... and the General Welfare is indeed much different as what was intended to what you are trying to shovel now... Founding fathers never intended for individuals to have their every need taken care of my the government.. try having some education about the Constitution and the intent of the founding fathers

I do have some education on the matter. See how I cited some documents - THE constitution itself, the federalist papers (HINT - this provides insight into the intent of the founding fathers) and a supreme court case that greatly expanded the power of the government and applied to this issue.

You on the other hand spout off some nonsense that probably came straight out of your ass and offer up no new evidence other than your lies that the constitution somehow forbids government spending on health care. It expressly allows the government to levy taxes and allocate spending for the public good. There is no shortage of evidence that there is a great amount of public good in ensuring universal healthcare. Look at the H1N1 "swine" flu. Had it been a bigger problem than it was, or perhaps will be should it return in the fall we as an entire nation would all be better off if we knew that people wouldn't avoid the doctor because they are unable to pay. It'd be much easier to contain if everyone had equal access to antivirals. That is a public good. That is a perfectly valid argument in favor of universal healthcare. You'll excuse me if I don't hold my breath waiting for you to come up with a valid argument against it.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Please get out your constitution and read about the general welfare clause, the taxing and spending clause... read Alexander Hamilton in the federalist papers, US vs. Butler....

You guys are raving lunatics that have no eduation to back up your meme of "OMG OMG We have a constitution! You're shitting on the constitution!!!!!!111!!!"

Promoting the general welfare and providing for it are 2 different things... and the General Welfare is indeed much different as what was intended to what you are trying to shovel now... Founding fathers never intended for individuals to have their every need taken care of my the government.. try having some education about the Constitution and the intent of the founding fathers

I do have some education on the matter. See how I cited some documents - THE constitution itself, the federalist papers (HINT - this provides insight into the intent of the founding fathers) and a supreme court case that greatly expanded the power of the government and applied to this issue.

You on the other hand spout off some nonsense that probably came straight out of your ass and offer up no new evidence other than your lies that the constitution somehow forbids government spending on health care. It expressly allows the government to levy taxes and allocate spending for the public good. There is no shortage of evidence that there is a great amount of public good in ensuring universal healthcare. Look at the H1N1 "swine" flu. Had it been a bigger problem than it was, or perhaps will be should it return in the fall we as an entire nation would all be better off if we knew that people wouldn't avoid the doctor because they are unable to pay. It'd be much easier to contain if everyone had equal access to antivirals. That is a public good. That is a perfectly valid argument in favor of universal healthcare. You'll excuse me if I don't hold my breath waiting for you to come up with a valid argument against it.

ROFL... the US Constitution prohibited the increase in power which you cite as a decision of the Supreme Court... and while you erroneously believe that the Judiciary has the 'right' or the means to interpret the constitution anyway they 'feel' they need to, and in so doing TOSS IT OUT THE WINDOW... you're dead ass wrong.

The Judiciary does NOT have such power and the progressives who feel otherwise are, as a result, PART OF THE PROBLEM!

As is noted by another, above; the phrase: '...promote the general welfare' does NOT provide that the RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL CAN BE SET ASIDE TO ACCOMMODATE THE NEEDS OF THE COLLECTIVE. WHERE IN THE US CONSTITUTION, OR ANY OTHER INSTRUMENT IN THE FOUNDING CHARTER DOES SUCH AN ARGUMENT REST?

Promoting the general welfare is a rhetorical instrument which assigns the US government the power to lobby on behalf of the united states... NOT to confiscate the product of one man's labor to subsidize the existance of another man... and THAT is all we're talking about here. There is NO GREATER point, NO EXPANSION OF THE CONCEPT, NO HIGHER MORAL IMPERATIVE...

YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO THE PRODUCT OF ANOTHER INDIVIDUALS LABOR... PERIOD.

NONE, NADA, ZIP... ZERO!

And while there are many necessary functions of critical infrastrauture which require the means of the government to assess taxes, which PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE... NONE OF THOSE FUNCTIONS SERVE THE INTERESTS OF ONE MAN OVER THE NEXT... and that is precisely what social entitlements do... and that is why such are UNCONSTITUTIONAL and this without regard for the absurd rationalizations which argue to the contrary.

Now CITE THE ELEMENTS OF THE US CONSTITUTION AND THE OTHER INSTRUMENTS OF THE US FOUNDING CHARTER; WHEREIN THE NEEDS OF THE COLLECTIVE ARE RIGHTFULLY DESIGNATED TO EXIST BEYOND RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL AND ARE TO BE DRAWN FROM THEIR MEANS...

Either cite the SPECIFIC TEXT or STFU!

Either

 

[Nik]

Damned right, Heaven forbid I should be FORCED to contribute to you. I got mine, go get your own, and get over the idea that you and other, greedy strangers like you have any right to take away from the people I actually care about.

Ok. Then please stop using the roads, bridges, tunnels, or subsidized public transport. If you get mugged, well you'll just have to deal. House catches on fire? Poor you. After all, none of us want to contribute to your well being either.

 

[Bfgrn]

Faces of government healthcare:

Faces of Government Healthcare

Here you go pea brain...

Conservatives for Patients Rights is a front group organized in 2009 by Richard Scott to fight U.S. president Barack Obama's proposals for health reform. According to the Politico news site, Scott has raised $20 million to fight health care reform.

Maggie Mahar at the Century Foundation's Health Beat blog reports that Scott previously started the for-profit hospital chain in 1987 that later became the $23 billion Columbia/HCA. He was ousted from this post in 1997 after an FBI investigation of Columbia/HCA that led to 14 felony convictions and $1.7 billion in criminal and civil fines for Medicare fraud.

Richard Scott is the founder of Conservatives for Patients Rights, a group organized in 2009 to fight U.S. president Barack Obama's proposals for health reform.

According to the Politico news site, Scott has raised $20 million to fight health care reform

Maggie Mahar at the Century Foundation's Health Beat blog has written about Scott in her book, Money-Driven Medicine: The Real Reason Healthcare Costs So Much. She reports that Scott previously started the for-profit hospital chain in 1987 that later became the $23 billion Columbia/HCA. He was ousted from this post in 1997 after:

the FBI swooped down on HCA hospitals in five states. Within weeks, three executives were indicted on charges of Medicare fraud, and the board had ousted Scott.

The investigation revealed that the hospital chain had been bilking Medicare while simultaneously handing over kickbacks and perks to physicians who steered patients to its hospitals. ... The company did not fight the charges. In 2000, HCA (which by then had expunged “Columbia” from its name) pleaded guilty to no fewer than 14 felonies. Over the next two years, it would pay a total of $1.7 billion in criminal and civil fines.
Source Watch

 

[Annie]

Faces of government healthcare:

Faces of Government Healthcare

Here you go pea brain...

...

Fucktard.

 

[Bfgrn]

Faces of government healthcare:

Faces of Government Healthcare

Here you go pea brain...

...

Fucktard.

Is that word in the pea brain dictionary?

 

[HUGGY]

Funny... a benefit of employment.... for the likes of the Military, Bush, Clinton, Cheney, Carter, etc

Not exactly the same of just giving it away

But nice try

Giving it away? Hey we will be paying taxes to pay for it. Nothing going to be given away. The difference is that there will not be a middle man (insurance companies) taking a cut for doing nothing. All the money will go to medical expenses instead of fat cat corporate CEOs.

Why is it that right wingers love to get screwed by big buisness?

Which means those that pay taxes will be providing it for everyone, whether they pay taxes or not...

Sorry... but you are not OWED a damn thing for your personal care, health, and well being from anyone else on this fucking earth

You're an adult... earn it and pay for it yourself

The government does not exist to be your insurance company.. what next? Government single payer auto insurance?

This is why left wingers just don't get it...

No...you don't get it. The people voted with the expectation of getting health care for all. Like police for all...fire department for all...education for all. The me first screw everybody else party lost. Cry all you want. When health care passes you don't have to go to the doctor under that umbrella. Just keep paying the insurance vultures until they deny you coverage. Before you fall back onto the national coverage be sure to come back here and beg forgiveness for being such a thoughtless selfish little neo con.