and they said it could never happen to them

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by DKSuddeth, Feb 11, 2004.

  1. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/486354.cms

    Now, Nasdaq live from Bangalore
    CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA


    WASHINGTON: Reporting on the outsourcing issue may never be the same again. The news agency Reuters has announced that it will be hiring six reporters in Bangalore.


    No news here – except the reporters sitting in Bangalore will be covering American companies and financial markets.


    The announcement has caused a stir in the news world. It's one thing to have India answer Britrail phone calls and troubleshoot for Dell, but what happens when journalists who report on the subject feel their own jobs are threatened?


    "And here I'd been telling people so lightheartedly, 'Well, at least they can't outsource my job.' Stupid me," says Aliza Earnshaw, a reporter with the Portland Business Journal, who thinks moving to India may now be an option.


    International media organisations such as Reuters and Associated Press routinely transfer employees across the world. Bureaux are often a mix of local and trans-national employees.
     
  2. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    Yes. This will certainly heighten the liberal media bias and hasten the ETA of the world communist revolution.

    "It's wrong to employ brown people when white people want more money.":clap:
     
  3. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    RWA, just what is your job that is so safe from outsourcing? You obviously are for slave wages and labor so what is it?
     
  4. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    It's not safe. I am/was a java programmer. No job is safe. The only safe job is equity partner. I'd suggest you form a corporation and profit yourself from all the various cheap resources the world has to offer.
     
  5. Moi
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    Moi Active Member

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    Not that this question was directed toward me, but I must insert myself here. Your implication is that someone who isn't mouthing off every second about jobs being lost overseas is somehow "for slave wages and labor" is so infuriating. And I, for one of a number of others, am sick of hearing you complain about the economy and US corporations all because you are working at a job that you feel is either beneath you or not paying you enough. If you feel so damn strongly about it, quit your job for a higher paying one. Relocate to a more profitable location. Work in a different field. Engage yourself in education or training to find another job.

    Just stop blaming the corporations who, just as you are free to go elsewhere for work, are just as free to go elsewhere for employees or the rest of the citizenry of the united states who believe in capitalism and free trade.
     
  6. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    I've NEVER implied that. You've jumped to that conclusion yourself. I have simply stated time and again MY disgust with it. When RWA, or others, banner wave for the corporations over the people then I have issue because america is the people, NOT the corporations. have you forgotten that or have you been brainwashed to believe otherwise?

    one, I don't care if you're sick of hearing me complain or not.
    two, the economy does suck. face it, its reality.
    three, out of all the discussions that we've had on this board, You of all people, should know what its like to be working 'beneath' your level and I would expect a better response than the one that I got.

    where? where the hell are they? open your damn eyes and see that your beloved corporations are moving them to cheaper places, NOT because they are better over there, simply because they are cheaper. I've displayed a handful of articles showing how corporations would rather deal with setbacks and shifting deadlines to keep cheap labor than they would to pay someone a higher wage in this country to get it done right the first time.

    you cannot be that stupid. you know alot of my situation with my personal life. knowing that, you tell me how the hell i'm supposed to better educate myself, as if I wasn't high tech enough as it is, with the measly ass wages that most tech companies are now paying?

    tell you what, you apply for a tech job with an indian company, or russian or chinese. how many times would you have to hear that they don't hire americans before you got fed up with it?

    Something that you, and a number of others on this board, seem to forget is that these corporations have no obstacle finding cheap labour around the world, but YOU would have a hard time finding work around the world. can you jump on a plane to india for an interview? That answer would be no.


    Finally, whats happening in this 'global economy' isn't free trade and our economy isn't dependent upon the stock market as some of you feel it is. Its based on you, me, your neighbor, and my neighbor and whether we are working or not.

    you don't want to hear me bitch about the economy any more? fine, don't read my damn posts. move on with your little life in ignorance.
     
  7. Moi
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    Moi Active Member

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    You know, DK, the only reply to your post can be that you are a complete fraud. You make such global comments about the economy but what you are really interested in is your own material possessions. Your situation regarding the economy and employment is one of your own making. You chose not to pursue higher education and get a degree, yet you now lament your fate. You chose to live where you do and now claim that the job prospects are too slim. You chose to work for the wages you get yet complain that you can't make a living. Yada Yada Yada

    Quite the contrary to your statement that you didn't imply that those of us who aren't protesting overseas job loss are for slave labor, you clearly wrote it: “You obviously are for slave wages and labor so what is it?” Ring a friggen bell??? You said it, I didn’t imagine it.

    You can sit there and argue about the economy all you want, but whether the economy was good, bad or indifferent there are numerous causes as to its status and everyone in this country is responsible for it. Corporations, like any citizen in this country, are free to follow the path of least resistance. Have you ever quit a job for one with better wages, benefits, work hours? Or perhaps quit one so that you could get another which afforded you more responsibility and the advantages of learning or advancement? Would you leave the job you have now if your dream job opened up and you were first in line for it? Gee, let's guess...you would do what was better for you?

    If you are so all fired set on getting corporations to employ more americans and stopping them from going overseas for labor, I suggest that you educate yourself on what causes them to do so. Ludicrously high wages, income and employment taxes, health insurance costs, lawsuits, business insurance, fraud, etc. are all reasons for corporations to have much higher cost of doing business here in the US. The fact that these things are out of control and out of proportion are directly related to corporations going overseas. Why don't you try advocating for laws to alleviate some of that burden rather than attacking those who are employing people who need jobs regardless of where they live.

    No one on this board is suggesting that slave labor is a preferable system. However, again, instead of trying to fix the system, you just bellyache about how poor you are and how difficult you have it. The wages that Nike, Levi's, etc. pay overseas may not be the equivalent of what they'd pay here, but the people who receive them are happy to do so. Are you so selfish that you honestly believe that people don't deserve to work just because they weren't born here and/or live here? Why does a corporation owe the US anything? There are no walls at our border. Just as immigrants come here for money, corporations should be free to leave because of money. And the people that benefit from the corporations shouldn’t be judged on your standards of "slave" wages/labor. To them, they are working and earning a living- not everyone needs the same standard of living as we expect here in the US.

    Furthermore, I’m not blind to the economy but I think you are. If you'd actually look at the underlying facts of the economic indicators rather than judging the overall economy by your current needs, you'd see that they indicate that we are in a correction after almost a decade. The economy during the 1990’s could not be sustained. Much of this is due to the fraud perpetrated by large corporations, much of it also has to do with the ridiculously high burden placed on corporations as stated above, much of it also has to do with the strike it rich mentality of the tech boom. People no longer expect and are willing to accept sustained, true monetary preservation- which is what the economy has historically provided- they wanted to get rich quick. There is no economy which can sustain “growth” of 1000 times earnings. The economy we have now is just fine in the sense that the growth we are seeing is sustainable and rational. There isn’t a false foundation and expectations are beginning to reset themselves to sustainable levels.

    And, no, I don't believe the economy sucks. Far from it. This economy supports billions of people. Perhaps you don’t have all the material possessions you want, but you have what you need. You are still alive, have the freedom to choose your job, where you live and what you do all day and have the benefit of medical care. In this country even with our economy, you will not starve.

    And, yes, I do understand being unemployed. I do understand not having everything I always wanted. What I don’t understand, and never will, is the need for people to blame others for, or look to others for a solution to, their problems. You believe that because your situation is not what you want, that somehow everyone should be on your complaint bandwagon and blame the government or corporations. Sorry. You bear the primary responsibility for your fate. The federal government and corporations didn’t tell you not to get an education that would lead to the economic path you want; they didn’t cause your wife’s illness; and, they didn’t force you to live where you do.
     
  8. jimnyc
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    :clap:
     
  9. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    so now i'm the only one?

    so I created the H1B and L1 visa that changed the IT service sector? I had no idea I was so damn powerful :rolleyes:

    I chose nothing of the sort. If one is limited because of finances is that their fault? I don't make enough to send myself to school but I make too much to get any assistance, does that ring a bell? The only thing I lament is not raising my voice earlier.

    If I were the only one affected by this I would say you're right, however, since the IT unemployment rate here in the dallas area is around 12% right now I'd say you're not only wrong, but your stupidly wrong. If you'd have the sense to look at the entire country as a whole for the IT field you'd see that there are about 3 cities whose unemployment rate in the IT sector is less than 10%. That many hundreds of thousands made bad choices? Hardly, thats simply a copout bullshit explanation you give when you have no damn answer to the question.

    No, you didn't imagine it. What you DID imagine is that I said it to everyone in that blanket statement, when in fact, it was a statement delivered to RWA as an individual. If, however, you choose to believe in the same corporatist ideologies that he does, then yes, its intended for you as well. If you aren't protesting the IT job losses to offshoring it could simply mean that your field, like manufacturing years ago, has not been affected yet so you see no reason to bitch. Relax, your time is coming.



    If everyone is responsible for it then why aren't YOU trying to help fix it?

    I can honestly say that I have not done this WITHOUT providing the company I was with an opportunity to match the pay, training, and responsibilities that the other company was offering. A position that has landed me in hot water with the wife more than once.



    On some of these points I agree with you. CEO's making hundreds of millions whether a company fails or succeeds is part of that 'ludicrously high wage' as well. The fresh out of MCSD school programmer has no business making over 100k and although I bitch about that as well, my voice alone carries little weight. I don't believe employers should pay for health insurance costs, I also believe that if they didn't then health insurance would be cheaper by the insurance companies not expecting that windfall and having to compete with individuals for business. Lawsuits are another matter, yes there are some frivolous lawsuits in the courts and thats what we need to address but we should not allow corporations to slide along with no liability whatsoever and thats exactly what your current pro-business republican party is legislating on a weekly basis. I used to write Pete Sessions on a weekly basis about the things I think could make the burden on corps and workers easier but I guess that fell on deaf ears to a congressman who was working for corporate welfare and who is nothing more than a leadership loyalist. Thats why Sessions has lost my vote and I'll be checking Martin Frost this upcoming election.

    First off, the people in India, Pakistan, Russia, and China are not my concern, as they are not yours as you have mentioned many times. My concern is the american people and myself. I have consistently accepted less than the average salary for a position because I KNEW that not having certifications would prevent me from doing so. Does that mean I don't work any harder or smarter? NO, it does not, but I didn't bust my ass learning everything I could in IT for the last 13 years, ON MY OWN, to be denied the opportunity because the pro-business conservatives feel I'm a burden to the corporations. Capitalism is supposed to be based on the supply and demand scenario, right? Salaries in the IT field got so high because they were in demand. Theres NO fairness by the government allowing corporations to go global without demanding that other countries allow the same in free trade and employment. As I said earlier, try and apply for a job in India, see what they say and you tell me then if its fair trade or not. Second, I'm not basing 'slave wages' on another countries cost of living, I'm basing it on the cost of living in America. If a corporation wants to go to India for 4 people to do my job at the same price, fine, but I would EXPECT my government to ensure that that company is not rewarded for delisting an american worker. That is why Bush will not be re-elected, because of jobs.


    Material possessions? I don't give a fuck about material possessions, moi, I would just like to be able to visit a doctor from time to time without worrying about being able to feed my wife and kids if I do. At this current time, I can't do that. Hell, I don't even have a home of my own. Were it not for the generosity of a friend, My family would be living with my In laws. Would you like to tell me how that means I have everything I need? My wifes medications alone take 25% of my salary. How can you justify corporate tax breaks, corporate bonuse incentives, and legislation that removes liability from a corporation for any wrongdoing that may occur when we have people that can't feed their families on their own?

    au contraire, again, I'm responsible for corporations relocating work to India? (or any other country you choose). As long as people like you continue to support worthless trends to dictate success then the longer we will be in a perpetual slide to division and strife. I may not have a college degree in my hand, does that mean I am not as intelligent or capable? No, hardly. My wifes Illness? Nobody caused it, its an autoimmune disorder called Systemic Lupus. Nobody caused it and it wasn't a result of any choices she or I made. Does that mean that we should toss the sick and infirm out with the bathwater? You seem to think we should by your callous attitude towards people and their choices but don't care to deliberate whether its the result of choices or not. As for where I live, look at the IT employment stats again, hell, look at any stat for any job sector. See if you can figure out the trend and why its happening. When you do, get back to me. Otherwise, stop being part of the problem and become part of the solution.

    Jim, WTF are you clapping for? I didn't see a damn thing in her post worth clapping for other than MAYBE changing the unfairness in how corporations are handled by regulations. Its too bad she couldn't apply that to all parties involved instead of just 'business'.
     
  10. eric
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    The whinning is really getting sickening !

    If half the energy was used being creative instead of whinning all the time there would be no need for it !!

    Really if you think you are going to legislate away the problem you are dead wrong.
     

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