America Is So Fucked...

[NYcarbineer]

I got a plan, stop the war on capitalism, from the book of duh.

Capitalism believes the average American worker is overpaid. That's why 50 cents an hour workers on the other side of the world now hold once-American jobs.

Capitalism has plenty of 50 cents an hour jobs available, if Americans want them.

The only major job market that still has jobs available for around 50 cents per hour is China. So this of course is a lie.

Which is why 'Capitalism' goes to China. Capitalism would be happy to pay Americans 50 cents an hour here for the same jobs;

it's 'Anti-capitalism' that stands as a barrier to that happening.

 

[Divine Wind]

There's not a rate in that table for 2007 that takes a third of anyone's income. Stop that.

Are you asserting that none of the total effective Federal tax rates listed on your table approximate or exceed 33%?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Again that is not true. Of course untrue posts are the norm for you.
Capitalism believes workers should get paid whatever the market dictates they should get paid. If that's $50/hr, great. If it's 50cents anhour, great.
Of course a worthless muldoon like you is probably worth about 2 cents an hour. Which is why people like you need unions.

You just unwittingly confirmed what I said.

You just unwittingly revealed you are a moron of top caliber who cannot understand a post.

All you have are insults. You should try facts instead. Be brave, they don't bite.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There's not a rate in that table for 2007 that takes a third of anyone's income. Stop that.

Are you asserting that none of the total effective Federal tax rates listed on your table approximate or exceed 33%?

Since the highest total effective federal tax rate for 2007 on that chart is 29.5%, and that's for the top 1%,

yes, I am.

 

[Mr.Nick]

So we are expected to accept Laffer as the supreme authority and all-knowing expert on what 'ideal' taxation is?

18.5% of what?

An 18.5% tax rate is what is meant, although I question that exact figure.

The Laffer Curve is a mathematical proof for what we should all recognize as being common sense: Governments need taxes to function. Tax too little and the government becomes ineffective. Tax too much and the citizenry loses the will to aspire to financial success.

After all, why work hard if someone is simply going to take all the fruits of your labor?

Here are the actual effective federal tax rates, up to 2007. It is fair to say they are even lower today:

Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates for All Households

They are LOW.

Taxes can be extremely misleading given all the loopholes over the years.

Do you really believe anyone in the history of this nation has actually paid 91% in taxes???

There would be no point in attempting to become wealthy.. Why make 100k when you can just make 10k as a day laborer???

In our present day the people ARE paying their taxes via their tax bracket - its just the corporations that get the loopholes and incentives.

Democrats are fucking the private sector middle class with their bullshit spending...

 

[whitehall]

America is still the greatest Country in the world despite the ignorant opinion of people who can't put a sentence together without using the "F" word.

 

[Divine Wind]

Since the highest total effective federal tax rate for 2007 on that chart is 29.5%, and that's for the top 1%,

yes, I am.

For 2007, that is correct. What would it be if the temporary Bush tax cuts were allowed to expire?

Secondly, even "29.5%" is closer to a third than a quarter. If you want to quibble over that, then I'll happily rephrase my post to say "Having Uncle Sam take over a quarter of my income isn't 'LOW'. "

 

[BoycottTheday]

Which is why 'Capitalism' goes to China.

They are fleeing YOU! and your screwy free trade pacs that sold the USA out!

Why would a capitalist sign a trade crap with foreign countries that screw the captialists home country?

Thats the problem, all these "free trade" agreements fuck the USA!

They wouldnt and shouldnt sign that chit, Home country should come first. To protect the home country is to protect , like Dr Savage writes, borders, language and culture.

Never underestimate the power of patriotism™.

Like liberals, Rhinos included, ALWAYS do!

 

[mudwhistle]

Why? Because of the debt crisis? Because of lack of job growth? Credit rating downgrade?

Yeah, all of the above, but the main reason is because your political in fighting. You guys are so concerned about the win you don't give a shit about trying to fix this mess. Thread after thread on this board is "It's Obama's fault".."It's the right's fault"..The hatred is so deep and so bitter - and you give the loons like Bachmann and whoever her left-wing equivalent is, the time of day - that it going to sink your country.

And don't blame your politicians - reading on this board you guys are jsut as bad as them - you voted for them and you support them.

Of all the political systems I see from day-to-day - British, Aust., NZ, US - other European countries - the US is by far the worst for vitriol and partisanship. THIS is what is going to kill the American Empire in the end, NOT a credit downgrade, GFC...They are the symptoms, the partisan hackery is the cause...

You might have a point there. People don't take kindly to being called terrorists, taliban, al qaida, hostage takers, til that shit stops there won't be any cooperations. Would you work WITH someone who called you those names?

Exactly. All during the negotiations the White House resorted to name-calling.

How the heck do you expect anyone to put up with the lambasting that they got from the people that were across the table from them.

I would have told them to get screwed, but the Republicans stayed there and put up with it. Who knows what kind of tricks Obama pulled in private.

 

[Too Tall]

Depends maybe on how the 2012 elections turn out. IF the GOP wins the WH and the Senate and keeps the House then maybe they'll really cut spending and the size of gov't. A lot. I know, they didn't do so well last time, but now they got the TPers holding their feet to the fire, so maybe things will be different.

I don't think we're past the point of no return yet. It's a big hole we're in and some are still digging, but at least the issue of gov't spending is in the national conscience now. The big test will be when attempts are made to reform (cut) the big entitlement programs. Gotta happen, and I would assume some tax hikes to accompany it otherwise there'd be no end of hollering from the Dems.

The real queston for me is can we do this in the next 5 years and avoid a bad depression. If the acrimonious gridlock continues into 2013, yeah we're fucked. We don't have a lot of time left to turn the aircraft carrier around and it's not gonna happen overnight.

If you think 50 or 60 million retirees on social security and medicare and another 10 million baby boomers are going to say put it to me, I'm ready to make some sacrifices, you've not being realistic. This is 1/3 of the adult populations. Any cuts in Medicare will throw more people on to Medicaid which will probably be cut. Education, Health and Welfare is mostly 50/50 cost sharing with state and local government. So any cut at the federal level will put the pressure on local government. My guess is that the voters are going say hell no, increase taxes on those that can most afford to pay.

The problem I have with raising taxes is that the additional revenue would be used to start new expensive government programs instead of reducing the deficit. That has ALWAYS been what politicians do.

 

[Too Tall]

Why? Because of the debt crisis? Because of lack of job growth? Credit rating downgrade?

Yeah, all of the above, but the main reason is because your political in fighting. You guys are so concerned about the win you don't give a shit about trying to fix this mess. Thread after thread on this board is "It's Obama's fault".."It's the right's fault"..The hatred is so deep and so bitter - and you give the loons like Bachmann and whoever her left-wing equivalent is, the time of day - that it going to sink your country.

And don't blame your politicians - reading on this board you guys are jsut as bad as them - you voted for them and you support them.

Of all the political systems I see from day-to-day - British, Aust., NZ, US - other European countries - the US is by far the worst for vitriol and partisanship. THIS is what is going to kill the American Empire in the end, NOT a credit downgrade, GFC...They are the symptoms, the partisan hackery is the cause...

It is the rights fault. They love to say Democrats were against Bush. Only, after 9/11, Bush was the most popular president in American history. He became the worst because of GOP policies.

The GOP has never given Obama a chance. Even before he was sworn in they announced they wanted him to fail. No other president has been accused of so many conspiracies. Even after it was Obama who took out Bin Laden, still, the right accuses him of pandering to Middle Eastern terrorists. They throw everything they can at him non stop "praying" that something will stick.

As if that wasn't bad enough, their odious policies were doing a fine job of wrecking this country even before Obama began running for president.

The people who attacked the US on 911 were radical Islamist terrorists, and that term was not allowed to be spoken by Obama or anyone in his Obama Administration for 2 1/2 years. Now, it is perfectly acceptable for all of them to call the tea party Americans TERRORISTS.

That explains a lot.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Yea constantly calling fellow Americans "Racists" and "Terrorists" is as low as things can go in Politics. That is how some prefer to treat their fellow Americans unfortunately. So i have to agree,America is so Fucked.

 

[Stashman]

Yea constantly calling fellow Americans "Racists" and "Terrorists" is as low as things can go in Politics. That is how some prefer to treat their fellow Americans unfortunately. So i have to agree,America is so Fucked.

I agree, also how they would say someone was not patriotic if they took a stand against the Iraqi war. Love for country is far different than love of government and it's policies, when those policies are not Constitutionally based.

 

[Flopper]

Why? Because of the debt crisis? Because of lack of job growth? Credit rating downgrade?

Yeah, all of the above, but the main reason is because your political in fighting. You guys are so concerned about the win you don't give a shit about trying to fix this mess. Thread after thread on this board is "It's Obama's fault".."It's the right's fault"..The hatred is so deep and so bitter - and you give the loons like Bachmann and whoever her left-wing equivalent is, the time of day - that it going to sink your country.

And don't blame your politicians - reading on this board you guys are jsut as bad as them - you voted for them and you support them.

Of all the political systems I see from day-to-day - British, Aust., NZ, US - other European countries - the US is by far the worst for vitriol and partisanship. THIS is what is going to kill the American Empire in the end, NOT a credit downgrade, GFC...They are the symptoms, the partisan hackery is the cause...

The Problem is the system. The every 2 year election cycle, combined with 24 Hour News coverage and a 2 Party system. means Our so called leaders are always thinking in terms of what will get them, or their party, Votes in 2 years, and in terms of what the right, or most prudent thing to do is. Even if they themselves are not up for election they are pressured to think of the party.

Things like reforming SS and MC, can simply never happen under this system. You will never get enough of these hacks willing to risk losing their next election, to make the tough, but needed reforms, to keep those things solvent.

Despite the Masses saying they want less spending. It will always be painful Politically to actually start making cuts, you will be pissing someone off,and our candy ass eye on the next election leaders will never do it.

Why look at the attacks that are leveled at anyone who dares even talk about reforming SS, and MC.

I am telling you, we are fucked, unless we find a way to remove the constant 24/7 Campaign mode mentality in DC.


Period.

If we can't we might as well just pack it in and get the hell out now, cause when this fucker comes down it is not going to be pretty. were all going to be shocked just how fast it comes apart. Wont take much with 310 million people just 1 short week with no deliveries to the grocery store away from fighting in the streets for meat.

Government runs on a year to year budget. Unlike businesses that have a have 5 or 10 yr plans, government program managers have no idea whether the next congress will expand or cut their allocation. Thus, they may make investments in infrastructure, employment, training, and contracts for a long term project only to find that next the congress wants to allocate money differently because of their political philosophy. A president comes into office and resends the presidential executive orders of the previous president and issues new orders changing the course of government for four years. The next president changes them back. The current debt crisis legislation can be totally replaced by the next congress sending the country in a new direction. This is all nothing new but what is new is the extremes in the political philosophies. Government has never been very efficient but having directions change radically every two or four years changes inefficiency to chaos.

 

[The Rabbi]

Why? Because of the debt crisis? Because of lack of job growth? Credit rating downgrade?

Yeah, all of the above, but the main reason is because your political in fighting. You guys are so concerned about the win you don't give a shit about trying to fix this mess. Thread after thread on this board is "It's Obama's fault".."It's the right's fault"..The hatred is so deep and so bitter - and you give the loons like Bachmann and whoever her left-wing equivalent is, the time of day - that it going to sink your country.

And don't blame your politicians - reading on this board you guys are jsut as bad as them - you voted for them and you support them.

Of all the political systems I see from day-to-day - British, Aust., NZ, US - other European countries - the US is by far the worst for vitriol and partisanship. THIS is what is going to kill the American Empire in the end, NOT a credit downgrade, GFC...They are the symptoms, the partisan hackery is the cause...

The Problem is the system. The every 2 year election cycle, combined with 24 Hour News coverage and a 2 Party system. means Our so called leaders are always thinking in terms of what will get them, or their party, Votes in 2 years, and in terms of what the right, or most prudent thing to do is. Even if they themselves are not up for election they are pressured to think of the party.

Things like reforming SS and MC, can simply never happen under this system. You will never get enough of these hacks willing to risk losing their next election, to make the tough, but needed reforms, to keep those things solvent.

Despite the Masses saying they want less spending. It will always be painful Politically to actually start making cuts, you will be pissing someone off,and our candy ass eye on the next election leaders will never do it.

Why look at the attacks that are leveled at anyone who dares even talk about reforming SS, and MC.

I am telling you, we are fucked, unless we find a way to remove the constant 24/7 Campaign mode mentality in DC.


Period.

If we can't we might as well just pack it in and get the hell out now, cause when this fucker comes down it is not going to be pretty. were all going to be shocked just how fast it comes apart. Wont take much with 310 million people just 1 short week with no deliveries to the grocery store away from fighting in the streets for meat.

Government runs on a year to year budget. Unlike businesses that have a have 5 or 10 yr plans, government program managers have no idea whether the next congress will expand or cut their allocation. Thus, they may make investments in infrastructure, employment, training, and contracts for a long term project only to find that next the congress wants to allocate money differently because of their political philosophy. A president comes into office and resends the presidential executive orders of the previous president and issues new orders changing the course of government for four years. The next president changes them back. The current debt crisis legislation can be totally replaced by the next congress sending the country in a new direction. This is all nothing new but what is new is the extremes in the political philosophies. Government has never been very efficient but having directions change radically every two or four years changes inefficiency to chaos.

Please describe something that has changed radically in 2-4 years.

 

[Flopper]

Why? Because of the debt crisis? Because of lack of job growth? Credit rating downgrade?

Yeah, all of the above, but the main reason is because your political in fighting. You guys are so concerned about the win you don't give a shit about trying to fix this mess. Thread after thread on this board is "It's Obama's fault".."It's the right's fault"..The hatred is so deep and so bitter - and you give the loons like Bachmann and whoever her left-wing equivalent is, the time of day - that it going to sink your country.

And don't blame your politicians - reading on this board you guys are jsut as bad as them - you voted for them and you support them.

Of all the political systems I see from day-to-day - British, Aust., NZ, US - other European countries - the US is by far the worst for vitriol and partisanship. THIS is what is going to kill the American Empire in the end, NOT a credit downgrade, GFC...They are the symptoms, the partisan hackery is the cause...

The reason it is so bad is that each side thinks they can gain full power and run the entire show. They have no need to build coalitions and do not want to. Maybe we would be much better off with three or four parties rather than the two we have currently.

The basis for all successful negotiations is the premise that each side would rather agree than disagree. That clearly is not the case in the current congress. I think the debt ceiling legislation bears witness to this.

 

[Flopper]

The Problem is the system. The every 2 year election cycle, combined with 24 Hour News coverage and a 2 Party system. means Our so called leaders are always thinking in terms of what will get them, or their party, Votes in 2 years, and in terms of what the right, or most prudent thing to do is. Even if they themselves are not up for election they are pressured to think of the party.

Things like reforming SS and MC, can simply never happen under this system. You will never get enough of these hacks willing to risk losing their next election, to make the tough, but needed reforms, to keep those things solvent.

Despite the Masses saying they want less spending. It will always be painful Politically to actually start making cuts, you will be pissing someone off,and our candy ass eye on the next election leaders will never do it.

Why look at the attacks that are leveled at anyone who dares even talk about reforming SS, and MC.

I am telling you, we are fucked, unless we find a way to remove the constant 24/7 Campaign mode mentality in DC.


Period.

If we can't we might as well just pack it in and get the hell out now, cause when this fucker comes down it is not going to be pretty. were all going to be shocked just how fast it comes apart. Wont take much with 310 million people just 1 short week with no deliveries to the grocery store away from fighting in the streets for meat.

Government runs on a year to year budget. Unlike businesses that have a have 5 or 10 yr plans, government program managers have no idea whether the next congress will expand or cut their allocation. Thus, they may make investments in infrastructure, employment, training, and contracts for a long term project only to find that next the congress wants to allocate money differently because of their political philosophy. A president comes into office and resends the presidential executive orders of the previous president and issues new orders changing the course of government for four years. The next president changes them back. The current debt crisis legislation can be totally replaced by the next congress sending the country in a new direction. This is all nothing new but what is new is the extremes in the political philosophies. Government has never been very efficient but having directions change radically every two or four years changes inefficiency to chaos.

Please describe something that has changed radically in 2-4 years.

Naming just a few; government stimulus, federal healthcare legislation, gays in the military, using the debt limit as bargaining chip, US troop withdrawal from Iraq.

 

[Flopper]

Depends maybe on how the 2012 elections turn out. IF the GOP wins the WH and the Senate and keeps the House then maybe they'll really cut spending and the size of gov't. A lot. I know, they didn't do so well last time, but now they got the TPers holding their feet to the fire, so maybe things will be different.

I don't think we're past the point of no return yet. It's a big hole we're in and some are still digging, but at least the issue of gov't spending is in the national conscience now. The big test will be when attempts are made to reform (cut) the big entitlement programs. Gotta happen, and I would assume some tax hikes to accompany it otherwise there'd be no end of hollering from the Dems.

The real queston for me is can we do this in the next 5 years and avoid a bad depression. If the acrimonious gridlock continues into 2013, yeah we're fucked. We don't have a lot of time left to turn the aircraft carrier around and it's not gonna happen overnight.

If you think 50 or 60 million retirees on social security and medicare and another 10 million baby boomers are going to say put it to me, I'm ready to make some sacrifices, you've not being realistic. This is 1/3 of the adult populations. Any cuts in Medicare will throw more people on to Medicaid which will probably be cut. Education, Health and Welfare is mostly 50/50 cost sharing with state and local government. So any cut at the federal level will put the pressure on local government. My guess is that the voters are going say hell no, increase taxes on those that can most afford to pay.

The problem I have with raising taxes is that the additional revenue would be used to start new expensive government programs instead of reducing the deficit. That has ALWAYS been what politicians do.

The last major tax increase was the Deficit Reduction Act of 1993, 18 years ago.

It created 36 percent and 39.6 income tax rates for individuals in the top 1.2% of the wage earners.
It created a 35 percent income tax rate for corporations.
The cap on Medicare taxes was repealed.
Transportation fuels taxes were raised by 4.3 cents per gallon.
The taxable portion of Social Security benefits was raised.
The phase-out of the personal exemption and limit on itemized deductions were permanently extended.
Expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit and added inflation adjustments
Zero Republicans in the House of Representative members voted for this bill.

The bill is often credited with having a positive effect on the economy for the following eight years. During the post-passage years the economy endured expansion and the country experienced one of the longest peacetime periods of prosperity, creating a surplus, (with the help of borrowing funds from the Social Security and Medicare accounts) by the end of President Clinton's term. The raising of taxes completed by the Budget Reconciliation act affected all of these areas of economic change and development in the nation. Federal Government Revenues increased 75%, GDP increased by 48%, and debt increase by 27% from 1993 to 2000.

Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dr Grump]

I got a plan, stop the war on capitalism, from the book of duh.

If only they could be trusted to do the right thing. They can't be thus the first GFC...

 

[Dr Grump]

Why? Because of the debt crisis? Because of lack of job growth? Credit rating downgrade?

Yeah, all of the above, but the main reason is because your political in fighting. You guys are so concerned about the win you don't give a shit about trying to fix this mess. Thread after thread on this board is "It's Obama's fault".."It's the right's fault"..The hatred is so deep and so bitter - and you give the loons like Bachmann and whoever her left-wing equivalent is, the time of day - that it going to sink your country.

And don't blame your politicians - reading on this board you guys are jsut as bad as them - you voted for them and you support them.

Of all the political systems I see from day-to-day - British, Aust., NZ, US - other European countries - the US is by far the worst for vitriol and partisanship. THIS is what is going to kill the American Empire in the end, NOT a credit downgrade, GFC...They are the symptoms, the partisan hackery is the cause...

Just because what you believe in, and know is right, appears 'partisan', is not a reason to abandon it.

Yeah, but if you are partisan you are blinded by idealogy, even at the expense of a good idea coming from the other side of the aisle. You guys needed to cut spending and get a tax increase - at least for the next couple of years.

it's like the freaking Greeks. Retire at 53 and don't pay taxes. We'd all love that, but now you're living in a country that is bankrupt. People have to suck up unpopular decisions for the benefit of everybody. But nobody is willing to do so, and thus the OP...