America Is So Fucked...

[Divine Wind]

The Laffer curve posits that there is an ideal level of taxation, which IIRC is about 18.5%. We are well above that rate now.

Do you have a reference for the 18.5% figure? This paper indicates 30%: http://mfi.uchicago.edu/publication...slippery-slope-the-laffer-curve-revisited.pdf

However, regardless of the optimal taxation rate, it becomes irrelevant if tax loopholes allow people to avoid paying their taxes. Specifically corporate taxes such as pointed out last year when a GE made $39 Billion dollars and a Texas housewife working minimum wage paid more in taxes to our government.

Besides adjusting our taxes and spending, we need tax reform.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Tax increases simply enable more spending, not less. There is not a case in this country where tax increases resulted in a balanced budget. Ask Pres George HW Bush.

Agreed in general. However, while many people love to use the Laffer Curve to justify lower taxes, they often forget that the Laffer Curve has two sides.

The Laffer curve posits that there is an ideal level of taxation, which IIRC is about 18.5%. We are well above that rate now.

So we are expected to accept Laffer as the supreme authority and all-knowing expert on what 'ideal' taxation is?

18.5% of what?

 

[NYcarbineer]

What's funny is that for all their criticism of Obama, the Right has no economic plan whatsoever that has any hope, let alone evidence, of being able to do this economy any better.

 

[BoycottTheday]

I got a plan, stop the war on capitalism, from the book of duh.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why? Because of the debt crisis? Because of lack of job growth? Credit rating downgrade?

Yeah, all of the above, but the main reason is because your political in fighting. You guys are so concerned about the win you don't give a shit about trying to fix this mess. Thread after thread on this board is "It's Obama's fault".."It's the right's fault"..The hatred is so deep and so bitter - and you give the loons like Bachmann and whoever her left-wing equivalent is, the time of day - that it going to sink your country.

And don't blame your politicians - reading on this board you guys are jsut as bad as them - you voted for them and you support them.

Of all the political systems I see from day-to-day - British, Aust., NZ, US - other European countries - the US is by far the worst for vitriol and partisanship. THIS is what is going to kill the American Empire in the end, NOT a credit downgrade, GFC...They are the symptoms, the partisan hackery is the cause...

Just because what you believe in, and know is right, appears 'partisan', is not a reason to abandon it.

 

[Divine Wind]

So we are expected to accept Laffer as the supreme authority and all-knowing expert on what 'ideal' taxation is?

18.5% of what?

An 18.5% tax rate is what is meant, although I question that exact figure.

The Laffer Curve is a mathematical proof for what we should all recognize as being common sense: Governments need taxes to function. Tax too little and the government becomes ineffective. Tax too much and the citizenry loses the will to aspire to financial success.

After all, why work hard if someone is simply going to take all the fruits of your labor?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I got a plan, stop the war on capitalism, from the book of duh.

Capitalism believes the average American worker is overpaid. That's why 50 cents an hour workers on the other side of the world now hold once-American jobs.

Capitalism has plenty of 50 cents an hour jobs available, if Americans want them.

 

[Stashman]

Why? Because of the debt crisis? Because of lack of job growth? Credit rating downgrade?

Yeah, all of the above, but the main reason is because your political in fighting. You guys are so concerned about the win you don't give a shit about trying to fix this mess. Thread after thread on this board is "It's Obama's fault".."It's the right's fault"..The hatred is so deep and so bitter - and you give the loons like Bachmann and whoever her left-wing equivalent is, the time of day - that it going to sink your country.

And don't blame your politicians - reading on this board you guys are jsut as bad as them - you voted for them and you support them.

Of all the political systems I see from day-to-day - British, Aust., NZ, US - other European countries - the US is by far the worst for vitriol and partisanship. THIS is what is going to kill the American Empire in the end, NOT a credit downgrade, GFC...They are the symptoms, the partisan hackery is the cause...

Just because what you believe in, and know is right, appears 'partisan', is not a reason to abandon it.

Until our elected officials return to the concepts and principles written in our Constitution than personal choice of left or right will not and does not matter. We are fighting over the exact same issues today that we were 40 yrs. ago. Your choices don't matter and your votes don't matter. The only politician that I see calling for a return to Constitutional government is Ron Paul.

 

[mudwhistle]

What's funny is that for all their criticism of Obama, the Right has no economic plan whatsoever that has any hope, let alone evidence, of being able to do this economy any better.

If you take the word of the White House, sure that's what you want to assume.

Course the White House is full of shit....but what else is new.

 

[The Rabbi]

The Laffer curve posits that there is an ideal level of taxation, which IIRC is about 18.5%. We are well above that rate now.

Do you have a reference for the 18.5% figure? This paper indicates 30%: http://mfi.uchicago.edu/publication...slippery-slope-the-laffer-curve-revisited.pdf

However, regardless of the optimal taxation rate, it becomes irrelevant if tax loopholes allow people to avoid paying their taxes. Specifically corporate taxes such as pointed out last year when a GE made $39 Billion dollars and a Texas housewife working minimum wage paid more in taxes to our government.

Besides adjusting our taxes and spending, we need tax reform.

We need tax reform, is correct. A flat tax, as tried in many Eastern European countrires, would be a "tax cut" just in terms of the time and money spent in compliance.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So we are expected to accept Laffer as the supreme authority and all-knowing expert on what 'ideal' taxation is?

18.5% of what?

An 18.5% tax rate is what is meant, although I question that exact figure.

The Laffer Curve is a mathematical proof for what we should all recognize as being common sense: Governments need taxes to function. Tax too little and the government becomes ineffective. Tax too much and the citizenry loses the will to aspire to financial success.

After all, why work hard if someone is simply going to take all the fruits of your labor?

Here are the actual effective federal tax rates, up to 2007. It is fair to say they are even lower today:

Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates for All Households

They are LOW.

 

[The Rabbi]

I got a plan, stop the war on capitalism, from the book of duh.

Capitalism believes the average American worker is overpaid. That's why 50 cents an hour workers on the other side of the world now hold once-American jobs.

Capitalism has plenty of 50 cents an hour jobs available, if Americans want them.

Again that is not true. Of course untrue posts are the norm for you.
Capitalism believes workers should get paid whatever the market dictates they should get paid. If that's $50/hr, great. If it's 50cents anhour, great.
Of course a worthless muldoon like you is probably worth about 2 cents an hour. Which is why people like you need unions.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What's funny is that for all their criticism of Obama, the Right has no economic plan whatsoever that has any hope, let alone evidence, of being able to do this economy any better.

If you take the word of the White House, sure that's what you want to assume.

Course the White House is full of shit....but what else is new.

Show me a conservative plan that balances the budget (which conservatives profess to want) and leads to significant job growth, in the short, medium, and long term (which conservatives profess to want)

and show me, in detail, with evidence, how and why it accomplishes that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I got a plan, stop the war on capitalism, from the book of duh.

Capitalism believes the average American worker is overpaid. That's why 50 cents an hour workers on the other side of the world now hold once-American jobs.

Capitalism has plenty of 50 cents an hour jobs available, if Americans want them.

Again that is not true. Of course untrue posts are the norm for you.
Capitalism believes workers should get paid whatever the market dictates they should get paid. If that's $50/hr, great. If it's 50cents anhour, great.
Of course a worthless muldoon like you is probably worth about 2 cents an hour. Which is why people like you need unions.

You just unwittingly confirmed what I said.

 

[mudwhistle]

I got a plan, stop the war on capitalism, from the book of duh.

Capitalism believes the average American worker is overpaid. That's why 50 cents an hour workers on the other side of the world now hold once-American jobs.

Capitalism has plenty of 50 cents an hour jobs available, if Americans want them.

The only major job market that still has jobs available for around 50 cents per hour is China. So this of course is a lie.

 

[BoycottTheday]

What you find funny isnt a joke, not one more penny you will get from me.

You socialist have run out of other peoples money

And id drather get a new wheelchair than give you the money i need for it

if you dont mind.

 

[The Rabbi]

Capitalism believes the average American worker is overpaid. That's why 50 cents an hour workers on the other side of the world now hold once-American jobs.

Capitalism has plenty of 50 cents an hour jobs available, if Americans want them.

Again that is not true. Of course untrue posts are the norm for you.
Capitalism believes workers should get paid whatever the market dictates they should get paid. If that's $50/hr, great. If it's 50cents anhour, great.
Of course a worthless muldoon like you is probably worth about 2 cents an hour. Which is why people like you need unions.

You just unwittingly confirmed what I said.

You just unwittingly revealed you are a moron of top caliber who cannot understand a post.

 

[Divine Wind]

Here are the actual effective federal tax rates, up to 2007. It is fair to say they are even lower today:

Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates for All Households

They are LOW.

Having Uncle Sam take a third of my income isn't "LOW". It's simply lower than previous rates.

Something to consider besides the actual tax rate is how our tax dollars are being spent. "We, the People" want the best bang for our buck. Although some people here won't admit it, many do accept that taxes are necessary to pay for roads, bridges, our national defense, embassies around the world and other necessities for our nation to function in a global economy. What "We, the People" don't like seeing is waste. Things like "a bridge to nowhere", exotic weaponry that even the Pentagon doesn't want and spending other pork-barrel spending which serves no other purpose except to help a politician become reelected in their own district.

 

[WillowTree]

Why? Because of the debt crisis? Because of lack of job growth? Credit rating downgrade?

Yeah, all of the above, but the main reason is because your political in fighting. You guys are so concerned about the win you don't give a shit about trying to fix this mess. Thread after thread on this board is "It's Obama's fault".."It's the right's fault"..The hatred is so deep and so bitter - and you give the loons like Bachmann and whoever her left-wing equivalent is, the time of day - that it going to sink your country.

And don't blame your politicians - reading on this board you guys are jsut as bad as them - you voted for them and you support them.

Of all the political systems I see from day-to-day - British, Aust., NZ, US - other European countries - the US is by far the worst for vitriol and partisanship. THIS is what is going to kill the American Empire in the end, NOT a credit downgrade, GFC...They are the symptoms, the partisan hackery is the cause...

You might have a point there. People don't take kindly to being called terrorists, taliban, al qaida, hostage takers, til that shit stops there won't be any cooperations. Would you work WITH someone who called you those names?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Here are the actual effective federal tax rates, up to 2007. It is fair to say they are even lower today:

Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates for All Households

They are LOW.

Having Uncle Sam take a third of my income isn't "LOW". It's simply lower than previous rates.

Something to consider besides the actual tax rate is how our tax dollars are being spent. "We, the People" want the best bang for our buck. Although some people here won't admit it, many do accept that taxes are necessary to pay for roads, bridges, our national defense, embassies around the world and other necessities for our nation to function in a global economy. What "We, the People" don't like seeing is waste. Things like "a bridge to nowhere", exotic weaponry that even the Pentagon doesn't want and spending other pork-barrel spending which serves no other purpose except to help a politician become reelected in their own district.

There's not a rate in that table for 2007 that takes a third of anyone's income. Stop that.