Ahmadinejad smacks down Obama

[ScreamingEagle]

Gee...are people going to follow their own leader, or the leader of a foreign country who previously overthrew their government and installed a dictator.

Hmmm....

If we make it a case of Obama v. Ahmadinejad, Ahamdinejad wins. Obama is popular, but the United States is hated, and for good reason there. If it remains a case of Ahmadinejad v. the Iranian people, well then Ahmadinejad has a chance of losing.

You do realize that there are many many people in Iran who have mixed feelings about this matter, yes? And that by involving ourselves into the debate, we may make them side with Ahmadinejad?

Hatred for the US lies mainly with Ahmadinejad's age group (yes, they have good reasons like the Iraq-Iran war)....but it is the young people who are protesting...they want their voices to be heard and have more freedom....not necessarily to overthrow the Ayatollah.

Incorrect. In a poll in early June only 30% of so of Iranians had a favorable view of the United States. Thats more than just the old people.

Link pls? In any case, it is the young who are leading the revolution...their hatred does not lie so deep as does with the older generation and change is much more possible with them.

For the leader of the free world to voice his opinion about freedom and to support the growing cause of freedom in Iran would do nothing to hurt our relations with Iran and everything to do with our own goals.

I'm not talking about Iran-US relations being hurt. I'm talking about the protestors succeeding or not.

I don't think they are going to succeed for quite awhile yet in any case.

I believe the president should be frank and honest about our beliefs in freedom. Too bad if the current leaders of Iran don't like it....they don't like a lot of things...but the next generation in Iran is going to have to be dealt with.....don't dismiss that factor so blithely. I don't think the old leaders can successfully frame the debate between Ahmanedinejad and the US anymore.

Again...its NOT about what the current leaders like or dislikes, its about the populace.

It certainly is....but they have no real leader yet...Obama missed an historical opportunity...

..

 

[DiveCon]

the title of this thread is incorrect
no way can the nutjob in Iran "smackdown" anyone

 

[Harry Dresden]

This thread seems to be all over the place, but Obama has a huge target on his chest and everything he says is going to be criticized by you right wing neo-cons. My biggest irritation is you righties trying to shoot down our president. Bush was a fucking goon and did nothing for our country in any real way except to allow shit-stains like Carl Rove run the White House. Have some respect. The Democrats at least let Bush dig himself into a hole before they jumped all over him.
There is nothing Obama can say that will apease the right...all of you neo-cons should head right over to Iran and fix the problem yourselves because you always have the answers. Well, you have the answers until its nut cutting time and you cower like little bitches. Let this thing play out. The end result I think will suprise even the most conservative Obama haters.

here we have another hemorrhoid .....disagree with me and you MUST be a NEO-con........Fuck off asswipe....when you get a few posts under your fat ass then you can call someone a name here....untill then you dont know jack about anyone on this board and what kind of politics they have.....

 

[DiveCon]

This thread seems to be all over the place, but Obama has a huge target on his chest and everything he says is going to be criticized by you right wing neo-cons. My biggest irritation is you righties trying to shoot down our president. Bush was a fucking goon and did nothing for our country in any real way except to allow shit-stains like Carl Rove run the White House. Have some respect. The Democrats at least let Bush dig himself into a hole before they jumped all over him.
There is nothing Obama can say that will apease the right...all of you neo-cons should head right over to Iran and fix the problem yourselves because you always have the answers. Well, you have the answers until its nut cutting time and you cower like little bitches. Let this thing play out. The end result I think will suprise even the most conservative Obama haters.

here we have another hemorrhoid .....disagree with me and you MUST be a NEO-con........Fuck off asswipe....when you get a few posts under your fat ass then you can call someone a name here....untill then you dont know jack about anyone on this board and what kind of politics they have.....

more than likely, they don't even know what a real neocon is

 

[elvis]

So you're siding with Achmedinejad?

Fuck off, idiot.

 

[Yurt]

You need to learn to speak more clearly. Whose comments are you talking about? And again, who gave concrete examples? Of What?

you need to learn to read and follow conversations more astutely. we were directly talking about the issue, you're confused, but thats ok, its you....

I can do so fine. However I can't pierce the fog of incomprehensible nonsense that is your chosen form of communication. If you want to try to make it more clear, go for it. But using "he" when we are talking about multiple males with no indication as to which male you are talking about is your fault, not mine.

the post links are clear, you are just being a moron again

seriously, all that effort to bitch and whine and it would have taken you less than 1/2 to actually figure out what we were discussing. you're a hack, nothing more

 

[Nik]

Hatred for the US lies mainly with Ahmadinejad's age group (yes, they have good reasons like the Iraq-Iran war)....but it is the young people who are protesting...they want their voices to be heard and have more freedom....not necessarily to overthrow the Ayatollah.

Incorrect. In a poll in early June only 30% of so of Iranians had a favorable view of the United States. Thats more than just the old people.

Link pls? In any case, it is the young who are leading the revolution...their hatred does not lie so deep as does with the older generation and change is much more possible with them.

Opinion Briefing: U.S. Image in Middle East/North Africa

Oh, and the younger generation are in charge of the protests, but the protestors need to get mainstream support. Otherwise, they lose.

I'm not talking about Iran-US relations being hurt. I'm talking about the protestors succeeding or not.

I don't think they are going to succeed for quite awhile yet in any case.

No, they won't. But giving an excuse for the regime to murder protesters is the LAST thing we should be doing.

I believe the president should be frank and honest about our beliefs in freedom. Too bad if the current leaders of Iran don't like it....they don't like a lot of things...but the next generation in Iran is going to have to be dealt with.....don't dismiss that factor so blithely. I don't think the old leaders can successfully frame the debate between Ahmanedinejad and the US anymore.

Again...its NOT about what the current leaders like or dislikes, its about the populace.

It certainly is....but they have no real leader yet...Obama missed an historical opportunity...

..

[/quote]

Are you really claiming that Obama missed a historical opportunity to become the leader of the Iranian people?

 

[Nik]

you need to learn to read and follow conversations more astutely. we were directly talking about the issue, you're confused, but thats ok, its you....

I can do so fine. However I can't pierce the fog of incomprehensible nonsense that is your chosen form of communication. If you want to try to make it more clear, go for it. But using "he" when we are talking about multiple males with no indication as to which male you are talking about is your fault, not mine.

the post links are clear, you are just being a moron again

seriously, all that effort to bitch and whine and it would have taken you less than 1/2 to actually figure out what we were discussing. you're a hack, nothing more

*shrug* if you can't be bothered to make your point clear, there is no need for me to try to divine what bullshit you are spouting more. I asked you to explain, if you were actually intellectually honest you would have done so instead of bullshitting about how what you said was perfectly clear.

 

[Chris]

Obama has handle Iran well.

If you don't attack Iran, then the mythology of Islamic extremism falls apart.

That is exactly what happened. The best policy is toward Iran is restrain. These kinds of dictatorships usually fall of their own weight.

 

[Kent.Neidhold]

This thread seems to be all over the place, but Obama has a huge target on his chest and everything he says is going to be criticized by you right wing neo-cons. My biggest irritation is you righties trying to shoot down our president. Bush was a fucking goon and did nothing for our country in any real way except to allow shit-stains like Carl Rove run the White House. Have some respect. The Democrats at least let Bush dig himself into a hole before they jumped all over him.
There is nothing Obama can say that will apease the right...all of you neo-cons should head right over to Iran and fix the problem yourselves because you always have the answers. Well, you have the answers until its nut cutting time and you cower like little bitches. Let this thing play out. The end result I think will suprise even the most conservative Obama haters.

here we have another hemorrhoid .....disagree with me and you MUST be a NEO-con........Fuck off asswipe....when you get a few posts under your fat ass then you can call someone a name here....untill then you dont know jack about anyone on this board and what kind of politics they have.....

Seriously? I'll say whatever the fuck I want about whomever I want and there's not really anything you can do about it. I dont know who you think you are, but you're an absolute zilch. I think you personally attacking me is absurd and trying to throw around insults speaks to your higher education. Im sorry you still live in your moms basement and I'm sorry no one likes you.

 

[MaggieMae]

This thread seems to be all over the place, but Obama has a huge target on his chest and everything he says is going to be criticized by you right wing neo-cons. My biggest irritation is you righties trying to shoot down our president. Bush was a fucking goon and did nothing for our country in any real way except to allow shit-stains like Carl Rove run the White House. Have some respect. The Democrats at least let Bush dig himself into a hole before they jumped all over him.
There is nothing Obama can say that will apease the right...all of you neo-cons should head right over to Iran and fix the problem yourselves because you always have the answers. Well, you have the answers until its nut cutting time and you cower like little bitches. Let this thing play out. The end result I think will suprise even the most conservative Obama haters.

here we have another hemorrhoid .....disagree with me and you MUST be a NEO-con........Fuck off asswipe....when you get a few posts under your fat ass then you can call someone a name here....untill then you dont know jack about anyone on this board and what kind of politics they have.....

Seriously? I'll say whatever the fuck I want about whomever I want and there's not really anything you can do about it. I dont know who you think you are, but you're an absolute zilch. I think you personally attacking me is absurd and trying to throw around insults speaks to your higher education. Im sorry you still live in your moms basement and I'm sorry no one likes you.

It takes about a month to weed out the different "styles" of the right wingers who post here. We have those who believe whatever they see on Fox or hear Limbaugh regurgitate is the God's Honest Truth; we have those who are sooooooo ignorant it's obvious they don't even watch or read news at all; we have those who just like to post insulting obsenities; and of course we have those who would prefer that this board become an all-inclusive site just for them.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Are you really claiming that Obama missed a historical opportunity to become the leader of the Iranian people?

This article should explain things quite succinctly for you:

June 19, 2009
Obama's Missed Opportunity in Iran
By Joel B. Pollak

One of the most under-reported facts about the Iranian uprising this week is that the regime has been using foreign paramilitaries to attack pro-democracy demonstrators in the streets of Tehran. Many are apparently drawn from the Iranian-trained Hezb'allah in Lebanon. Buried in a Jerusalem Post article on President Obama's response to the crisis was the revelation that Hamas thugs are on the streets of Tehran as well:
....
The possibility that Palestinian extremists may be helping to crush democracy in Iran points to the true, fascist nature of Hamas. It also highlights the link between the hegemonic ambitions of the Iranian regime and the persistence of Palestinian terror. The two have become mutually dependent.


The Obama administration believes that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict must be resolved before progress can be made in restraining Iran. As Harvard's Alan Dershowitz has noted, the president "has it exactly backwards." It is Iran's support for Hamas and Hezb'allah that perpetuates the violence on Israel's borders. Iranian nuclear ambitions embolden those groups and make them an even greater threat.


Political change in Iran therefore offers the possibility of killing two birds with one stone -- removing the threat of a nuclear Iran while cutting Hamas and Hezb'allah off from their primary source of weapons, training and money. If freedom triumphs over totalitarian theocracy in Tehran, the struggle for Israel's long-term security and for the democratic future of the Middle East could be won without firing a single shot.


Few predicted that an opportunity to free Iran would come so soon and so suddenly. The Obama administration believed the best approach was to appease the regime by offering talks without preconditions, withdrawing troops from Iraq, and conceding Iran's rise as a nuclear power. Outside the administration, an isolated minority argued for continued military and diplomatic pressure on Iran, the better to encourage the regime's internal opponents.


Obama has clung to his policy despite the radically changed circumstances and the opportunity they offer. Though his descriptions of the regime have hardened, he has refused to back the Iranian people's demands for freedom and democracy.


If ever there were a time for him to show what "tough diplomacy" means, it is now. But our eloquent president cannot find the words to stand up for hope and change.


Instead, Obama has bought time for the regime to rescue itself, declaring, "It is up to Iranians to make a decision about who Iran's leaders will be." That is the same excuse that was offered for years by South Africa's former president, Thabo Mbeki, as he allowed neighboring Zimbabwe to collapse into tyranny and ruin while Robert Mugabe rigged one election after another. In both cases, silence amounts to tacit support of the regime.

President Obama and his congressional allies are in denial -- both about the inherent evil of the Iranian theocracy, and the opportunity that this moment presents. On Sunday, as protestors marched in Tehran, and as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu delivered a speech on the prospects of peace, Obama was on the golf course. The next day, he dashed to Chicago to deliver a speech on health care reform -- a crisis so urgent that his administration has yet to put its legislative proposals in writing.


Already, France and Germany have been stronger than the U.S. in their criticism of the Iranian regime. Even prominent voices on the American left are calling on Obama to drop "engagement." But Democrats like Jan Schakowsky of Illinois, who said earlier this month that the U.S. should not support Israel in the event that it felt forced to attack Iran's nuclear facilities, have fallen in behind the president.

Instead of confronting Iran, Obama is picking a fight with Israel. And the United States is missing an opportunity that may not arise again for decades. By standing up for the ideals of freedom and democracy that America cherishes and which he is sworn to uphold, President Obama could have hastened the fall of a terrorist autocracy, ended the threat of a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, and brought peace to Israelis and Arabs alike.

We may long regret the consequences of his failure.

americanthinker.com

 

[Nik]

Yay, another op ed.

Thanks, I don't need to read another idiots opinion who doesn't provide anything to back it up. Especially one who stupidly ties in the Israel issue to this.

There have been almost no reports of Palestinians fighting in Iran. Foreign fighters, yes, but it seems that they've been bussed in from Lebanon, not the Palestinian territories.

 

[Nik]

Here is something from someone who has actually been to Iran, rather than the Neoconservative morons who know fuck all about the area of culture.


Iran? The U.S. should mind its own business | Salon News

The neocons know nothing about Iran, nothing about the culture of Iran. They have no interest in understanding Iran, in speaking to any Iranian other than Iranian exiles who support the idea of invasions -- I'll call them Iranian Chalabis. It's offensive, even to an Iranian American like me. These are people who would have actually preferred to have Ahmadinejad as president so they could continue to demonize him and were worried, as some wrote in Op-Eds, that Mousavi would be a distraction and would make it easier for Iranians to build a nuclear weapon and now all of a sudden they want to be on his side? Go away.

I'm not saying Obama is the most knowledgeable person on Iran, but he's obviously getting good advice right now. He understands way more about the culture of the Middle East than any of the neocons. For them to be lecturing President Obama is a joke. I have criticized Obama; for instance, I criticized him for having a patronizing tone in his Persian New Year message. But right now I think he's doing a good job. The John McCains of the world, they're Ahmadinejad's useful idiots. They're doing a great job for him.

Read it and actually learn something for once.

 

[Yurt]

Well if ABC runs one-sided debates....who's to say they don't run one-sided polls?

If your going to claim they run one-sided polls, your going to have to provide evidence of that. Giving me far right organizations who think the media is too liberal isn't really saying much of anything.

i think enough evidence, circumstantial, was given, you of course being you will act as if no evidence was given

proof nik is a dishonest hack.... come on nikky, you can't keep up with a simple conversation...

 

[Nik]

If your going to claim they run one-sided polls, your going to have to provide evidence of that. Giving me far right organizations who think the media is too liberal isn't really saying much of anything.

i think enough evidence, circumstantial, was given, you of course being you will act as if no evidence was given

proof nik is a dishonest hack.... come on nikky, you can't keep up with a simple conversation...

What exactly is proof that I am a dishonest hack?

 

[DiveCon]

i think enough evidence, circumstantial, was given, you of course being you will act as if no evidence was given

proof nik is a dishonest hack.... come on nikky, you can't keep up with a simple conversation...

What exactly is proof that I am a dishonest hack?

because you bitched about "far right wing" yet you posted from salon(far left wing)

 

[Nik]

proof nik is a dishonest hack.... come on nikky, you can't keep up with a simple conversation...

What exactly is proof that I am a dishonest hack?

because you bitched about "far right wing" yet you posted from salon(far left wing)

Do you know the difference between an interview with someone and an opinion piece?

 

[Nik]

And you are retarded if you think Salon is far left wing.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Here is something from someone who has actually been to Iran, rather than the Neoconservative morons who know fuck all about the area of culture.


Iran? The U.S. should mind its own business | Salon News

The neocons know nothing about Iran, nothing about the culture of Iran. They have no interest in understanding Iran, in speaking to any Iranian other than Iranian exiles who support the idea of invasions -- I'll call them Iranian Chalabis. It's offensive, even to an Iranian American like me. These are people who would have actually preferred to have Ahmadinejad as president so they could continue to demonize him and were worried, as some wrote in Op-Eds, that Mousavi would be a distraction and would make it easier for Iranians to build a nuclear weapon and now all of a sudden they want to be on his side? Go away.

I'm not saying Obama is the most knowledgeable person on Iran, but he's obviously getting good advice right now. He understands way more about the culture of the Middle East than any of the neocons. For them to be lecturing President Obama is a joke. I have criticized Obama; for instance, I criticized him for having a patronizing tone in his Persian New Year message. But right now I think he's doing a good job. The John McCains of the world, they're Ahmadinejad's useful idiots. They're doing a great job for him.

Read it and actually learn something for once.

Oh...that was so enlightening...NOT

I suppose people DYING IN THE STREETS FOR LIBERTY is just a "cultural thing" in Iran....something that we westerners just "don't understand"....boy...you libs really come up with some real shit...

You're worried that Ahmedinejad might "use" us? Hell, he already is...but if the majority of Iranians already have voted against the regime how would our voicing support for them hurt their cause? This "cultural" blather is just blather on your part...

The government of Iran is brutally killing, beating, and jailing people and suppressing the rights of its citizens...you libs are the first to scream and cry out when it comes to other countries that have human rights problems and want us to interfere with them....so why be silent in this case? Culture?? ....I think not.

I'm not saying that we need to go into Iran and physically interfere....unless asked....but as the leader of the free world Obama should voice what is right and moral in the name of freedom and human rights.....America has already had a profound effect on the freedom of Middle Easterners and I see no reason why Obama should remain silent about Iranians wanting freedom as well.....but....

....our "courageous" President is doing what he normally does in situations like this: hunkering down, trying to see which way the wind is blowing, and hoping to find an angle that he can use to jump in at the last minute and get credit. Here's a man who talks incessantly about dialogue and reaching out, but when the people of Iran would be heartened by any words of support from the leader of the free world, he's silent. If Barack Obama were a real leader, if he had any courage, if he cared about freedom, he would be speaking out on behalf of the people rioting in the streets for freedom -- not staying mute on the sidelines, while a nuclear-bomb-making hostile theocracy is teetering on the brink. This is a moment for leadership, but unfortunately Barack Obama is just another empty suit, not a real leader of men.

rightwingnews.com