A Necessity, NOT A Luxury

[Ame®icano]

Government fucked the system up, therefore we need more government!

Litigation fucked up the system. Perhaps we need more litigation.

It was GREED that caused the profession to explode with price gouging and corruption.

Really? So, why just the medical profession? Most people have no idea how to grow their own food, most cannot legally build their own house.

Aren't these professions also ripe for greed?

Methinks you are barking up the wrong tree.

Mark

You are correct. It's not only the health care industry, but most all others. GREED influences corporate America, which is aided and abetted by Washington politics. Many industries are corrupt, including the U.S. government.

I thought businesses went into business to make profit. If a business makes a profit, although you might think it's too much, how is that greed?

Only those who envy call it a greed.

 

[DriftingSand]

What's wrong with this option?:

My heart is failing which means it's time for me to die. Why has it become imperative that I be kept alive at all costs? Is it fair for me to burden my family with giant medical costs just so I can add a few more years of life which would likely be a low quality of life?

If that were the decision, we'd be more rational about it. But it's not. The decision is whether or not to it's fair to burden some faceless, socialized, health-care cost sharing scheme. Faced with that kind of decision, there's every incentive to go for broke.

Again, I have to ask you to check the sanity of such a statement. If we all need help, who's doing the "helping"?

There's a lot of sanity in the statement. It's factual and a truism. The help is coming from taxpayers, charities, trust funds, family members, and from debt forgiveness. Examples: Medicare, Medicaid, trust funds such as St. Jude's Children Hospital, and in some cases, debt forgiveness which turns into tax write-offs. Just common sense and simple logic.

No, there's not. If the average person can't afford basic health care, there's something seriously wrong. Something socializing costs isn't going to solve.

FYI - The average person can NOT afford basic health care. I just had an MRI that cost over $4,000. My prescriptions would cost a lot of money each month without insurance covering 95% of the cost. Can you imagine what the expense it would be for a family of four just to have an annual check-up? Do you realize what lab work cost? Do you know what an average doctor visit cost? The average person is doing well just to pay mortgage ( rent ), food, transportation, utilities, clothing, and insurance on their home and auto. Most people do not have a nest egg to draw from. People aren't making the money they use to make. The cost of living has gone up. Employers are paying less benefits for employees. A lot of college kids have enormous student loan debt. Seniors have lost equity in their homes, and some have lost part of their pensions due to mismanagement of the funds by unions and cities. We are not a wealthy citizenry. We are not a self-supporting people, nor a self-supporting nation. Proper health care is an enormous cost. At some point, almost everyone needs some form of assistance. Again, common sense and simple logic.

that's BS. There is thing called, making payments. You can do that with your health care the same as buying a car. Many people still do it and don't want you SPEAKING for them or sticking your nose in their business

Making payments is essentially what we are doing when we pay for insurance, only we are making the payments on the front end when the cost of medical care is not known so there can be no haggling.

I know one thing for certain: I've paid a LOT more payments to the insurance companies than I've received in medical care. There's a good reason why all the major insurance companies have giant, high-rise buildings in every major city in the USA (and in other parts of the world in some cases). There's a good reason why all the major insurance companies have an endless supply of commercials on all the major radio and television stations. It's also interesting to note that the moment you need them to pay for something they make your pay a deductible or co-pay before they cover 50% or 80% of the remaining portion. It's the scam of the century!!!

 

[dblack]

that's BS. There is thing called, making payments. You can do that with your health care the same as buying a car. Many people still do it and don't want you SPEAKING for them or sticking your nose in their business

Making payments is essentially what we are doing when we pay for insurance, only we are making the payments on the front end when the cost of medical care is not known so there can be no haggling.

No, it's fundamentally different. Payments for a given service are limited to the cost of the service. This preserves accountability and encourages people to look for value. Insurance breaks that accountability and encourages people to spend as much as they can get away with because it wont have any direct effect on their "payments".

 

[JoeMoma]

that's BS. There is thing called, making payments. You can do that with your health care the same as buying a car. Many people still do it and don't want you SPEAKING for them or sticking your nose in their business

Making payments is essentially what we are doing when we pay for insurance, only we are making the payments on the front end when the cost of medical care is not known so there can be no haggling.

No, it's fundamentally different. Payments for a given service are limited to the cost of the service. This preserves accountability and encourages people to look for value. Insurance breaks that accountability and encourages people to spend as much as they can get away with because it wont have any direct effect on their "payments".

Yes, the payments are fundlementally different. But both involve a routine transfer of money at periodic intervals which I still call making payments. With the exception of a very minor point of sematics, I am in agreement with you.

 

[Treeshepherd]

When they can go to the hospital or doctor and the rest of us pay more, why would they have coverage? I'm old enough to remember when there was something called Major Medical. It covered major medical events like the surgery I had, broken arms, and other major things for which people couldn't pay out of pocket. Basic doctor's visits were paid out of pocket. It worked well as far as I know.

Exactly. This is the only way insurance makes any sense - as a way to cover catastrophes that most of us won't have to face. For expenses we can reasonably expect, it makes far more sense to pay for them out of pocket, or via a payment plan. Using insurance to finance regular expenses is a sucker's game. Used in that way it's essentially a high priced credit card. But it's even worse than that because, once insurance becomes the principal means of funding in a given market, it perverts incentives and inflates prices.

This won't change by regulating insurance via government, or even by providing insurance with government ala "single payer". It will still be a dumb way to finance regular health care expenses.

The libertarian vision of health care makes sense. A guy could have a junior college degree in stitching, anesthesia and sterilization and do an adequate job stitching my mosh pit wound, for cheap. There would be no MD gatekeeper monopoly.

I don't know if I'd join the system if we had single payer, but at least single payer makes sense logistically. If there is one single entity reimbursing a hospital for an overnight stay in a hospital, they would refuse to pay the same rate as an overnight stay at the Hilton in Maui.

What we have with the ACA is the worst of both worlds. It doesn't add up mathematically. Some guy on this thread said that his knee replacement costs $85,000. Somebody has to pay for that. The money doesn't just fall from heaven.

 

[Conservative65]

When they can go to the hospital or doctor and the rest of us pay more, why would they have coverage? I'm old enough to remember when there was something called Major Medical. It covered major medical events like the surgery I had, broken arms, and other major things for which people couldn't pay out of pocket. Basic doctor's visits were paid out of pocket. It worked well as far as I know.

Exactly. This is the only way insurance makes any sense - as a way to cover catastrophes that most of us won't have to face. For expenses we can reasonably expect, it makes far more sense to pay for them out of pocket, or via a payment plan. Using insurance to finance regular expenses is a sucker's game. Used in that way it's essentially a high priced credit card. But it's even worse than that because, once insurance becomes the principal means of funding in a given market, it perverts incentives and inflates prices.

This won't change by regulating insurance via government, or even by providing insurance with government ala "single payer". It will still be a dumb way to finance regular health care expenses.

The libertarian vision of health care makes sense. A guy could have a junior college degree in stitching, anesthesia and sterilization and do an adequate job stitching my mosh pit wound, for cheap. There would be no MD gatekeeper monopoly.

I don't know if I'd join the system if we had single payer, but at least single payer makes sense logistically. If there is one single entity reimbursing a hospital for an overnight stay in a hospital, they would refuse to pay the same rate as an overnight stay at the Hilton in Maui.

What we have with the ACA is the worst of both worlds. It doesn't add up mathematically. Some guy on this thread said that his knee replacement costs $85,000. Somebody has to pay for that. The money doesn't just fall from heaven.

I was the one that had the knee replacement. I realize the money doesn't fall from heaven. It's paid by my insurance. Also, while the bills added up to $85,000, there are all sorts of contractual discounts that will actually reduce the real costs.

 

[Conservative65]

Litigation fucked up the system. Perhaps we need more litigation.

It was GREED that caused the profession to explode with price gouging and corruption.

Really? So, why just the medical profession? Most people have no idea how to grow their own food, most cannot legally build their own house.

Aren't these professions also ripe for greed?

Methinks you are barking up the wrong tree.

Mark

You are correct. It's not only the health care industry, but most all others. GREED influences corporate America, which is aided and abetted by Washington politics. Many industries are corrupt, including the U.S. government.

I thought businesses went into business to make profit. If a business makes a profit, although you might think it's too much, how is that greed?

Only those who envy call it a greed.

They define greed as a business making more than the one complaining thinks that business should make.

 

[Conservative65]

Capitalism at it's best...

What capitalism? The government sets almost ALL the rules of engagement in healthcare. There is almost zero competition in the medical device because of the government, the insurance mandated by the government to providers and the list goes on and on.

But do not let the facts get in the way of a good old socialist yammering of the "workings of capitalism" where there is none.

What those who support Obamacare don't get is that there

FYI - The average person can NOT afford basic health care. I just had an MRI that cost over $4,000. My prescriptions would cost a lot of money each month without insurance covering 95% of the cost. Can you imagine what the expense it would be for a family of four just to have an annual check-up? Do you realize what lab work cost? Do you know what an average doctor visit cost? The average person is doing well just to pay mortgage ( rent ), food, transportation, utilities, clothing, and insurance on their home and auto. Most people do not have a nest egg to draw from. People aren't making the money they use to make. The cost of living has gone up. Employers are paying less benefits for employees. A lot of college kids have enormous student loan debt. Seniors have lost equity in their homes, and some have lost part of their pensions due to mismanagement of the funds by unions and cities. We are not a wealthy citizenry. We are not a self-supporting people, nor a self-supporting nation. Proper health care is an enormous cost. At some point, almost everyone needs some form of assistance. Again, common sense and simple logic.

that's BS. There is thing called, making payments. You can do that with your health care the same as buying a car. Many people still do it and don't want you SPEAKING for them or sticking your nose in their business

Yes, some people can make payments, and do. And, some people can't make payments, and don't. Just curious here, what do you think a monthly payment would be for an operation and hospital stay that cost $750,000? Have any idea ??

I'll use my insurance as an example. It would cost me $750 out of pocket max. My insurance is called health reimbursement. My deductible is $3000 of which my employer pays $2250 after I pay the first $750. My total out of pocket is $6000/year. After the $3000 deductible is met, my coverage is 80/20 which my employer covers that 20% if it's inpatient. That means once the $6000 is met, I no longer pay a dime. Since $2250 of the deductible and all $3000 of the next $3000 to get to the max out of pocket of $6000 is covered, I pay no more than $750 out of pocket personally.

I recently had knee replacement surgery. The total of all bills for pre surgery PT, surgery, anesthesia, surgeon fee, hospital fees, post surgery PT, etc. was about $85000. I paid $750. Once all the bills came in and my employer wrote me the reimbursement for $5250, I paid the $6000 in bills.

That's because you had insurance. I wasn't talking about people that have some type of coverage. I was talking about people with zero coverage.

Without getting in "why they have no coverage", I am asking why am I, or should I be responsible for them?

Neither you nor I should be responsible for them.

 

[Conservative65]

When they can go to the hospital or doctor and the rest of us pay more, why would they have coverage? I'm old enough to remember when there was something called Major Medical. It covered major medical events like the surgery I had, broken arms, and other major things for which people couldn't pay out of pocket. Basic doctor's visits were paid out of pocket. It worked well as far as I know.

Exactly. This is the only way insurance makes any sense - as a way to cover catastrophes that most of us won't have to face. For expenses we can reasonably expect, it makes far more sense to pay for them out of pocket, or via a payment plan. Using insurance to finance regular expenses is a sucker's game. Used in that way it's essentially a high priced credit card. But it's even worse than that because, once insurance becomes the principal means of funding in a given market, it perverts incentives and inflates prices.

This won't change by regulating insurance via government, or even by providing insurance with government ala "single payer". It will still be a dumb way to finance regular health care expenses.

Single payer is nothing more than ANOTHER form of redistribution.

 

[Conservative65]

If you want to be taken seriously, then please explain the alternative that we have to shared health care cost. How can we do it better, without insurance and government assistance programs? How can we fix it so that everyone pays their way?

Get out of the way.

Meaning what exactly? Please explain. Thanks.

Meaning: stop trying to control how other people take care of their health. Meaning: stop using government to tell people what kind of health care they're allowed to seek. Stop trying to tell people how they can pay for their health care.

People aren't, generally, stupid. We can take care of ourselves without resorting to coercive state mandates.

Last year my daughters went to get their flu shots. There was a sign in the office that stated if someone didn't have insurance, the shot costs $10. I guess that covered the cost of the vaccine. Don't know, just speculating. My daughters are covered under my insurance and, while there wasn't a copay for such services, when I got the bill for what my insurance didn't cover, it costs me more than $10. I called and asked why I couldn't have just paid the $10. I was told it was because I had insurance. I have a feeling the charge my insurance paid and what I paid beyond what they covered made up for what the doctors didn't charge those without insurance.

Unless a kid is immune compromised, he/she doesn't need a flu shot, especially since its effectiveness is dubious. It's total overkill how many shots kids get today (and profit driven).
What's in a flu shot? Probably nothing helpful. What else? Formaldehyde, egg protein, Octylphenol ethoxylate, gelatin derived from pigs, and Thimerosal.

Flu vaccine effectiveness is almost always measured simply by the presence of antibodies, and not actual epidemiological verifiable results. In fact, the vaccine can backfire if the subject is exposed to a strong flu strain not covered by the jab. In that case, you're much better off by having natural antibodies which are not 'specialized' or 'engineered' to fight specific flu strains.
Medical Xpress Vaccination may make flu worse if exposed to a second strain

Both my kids have asthma.

 

[Conservative65]

Really? So, why just the medical profession? Most people have no idea how to grow their own food, most cannot legally build their own house.

Aren't these professions also ripe for greed?

Methinks you are barking up the wrong tree.

Mark

You are correct. It's not only the health care industry, but most all others. GREED influences corporate America, which is aided and abetted by Washington politics. Many industries are corrupt, including the U.S. government.

I thought businesses went into business to make profit. If a business makes a profit, although you might think it's too much, how is that greed?

There is a difference between a profit and extremely greedy gains. Lets say that it cost an oil company $10.00 a barrel to extract the oil. Lets say that refining and transportation cost another $20.00 a barrel. Let say that the oil company needs at least $20.00 per barrel profit in order to satisfy stock holders. That's $50.00 per barrel net to meet operating needs and show a profit. And, now lets say that commodity speculators push that price to $110.00 per barrel. Profit or Greed? Lets say that a hospital buys aspirins for $3.00 per bottle of a 100 tablets. And, lets say that they charge patients $5.00 for a single aspirin. Profit or Greed? Lets say an auto mechanic buys spark plugs for $1.50 each. And, lets say that after he installs them in a customers car, he charges $10.00 per plug. Profit or Greed? That's just for the spark plug, not the labor. There are many examples of price gouging. I remember when gas stations were fined for price gouging. It happens each and every day. That's why CEO's make $40,000,000 per year plus stock options.

There is a difference only to those who think it's their place to define how much the other guy should make.

Don't drive a vehicle that uses gas. Buy your own spark plugs and replace them yourself. It's not price gouging if there are options not requiring the use of those things.

A CEO makes what he/she makes because those running the company decide to do that. I could say what you make is too much and that unless you're willing to make less so someone else can make more, you're greedy. See how that works?

I understand your point.

In general, I find that those who think it's their place to limit, dictate, and decide for other don't like it when someone does it to them. They claim they are for choice and freedom yet let someone want to make a choice they don't like and suddenly those concepts no longer exist or they find a reason why a person shouldn't get a choice or have freedom of that particular item.

A good example is the pro abortion, or self proclaimed pro choice, crowd. They demand a woman be given the choice of what to do with her body. Fine, let me have 100% of the choice. All I ask is when she can't afford the results, I get a 100% choice of saying no to funding it for her.

 

[Darkwind]

It hasn't been squeezed by government. A lack of regulation has healthcare providers and insurers ripping each other off to the point that no one can afford some of the crappiest healthcare in the world. Unless you are wealthy, you are not getting this "wonderful" and "advanced" healthcare you see on House.

This is absolutely laughable. A lack of regulations?

Just like deregulation led to the housing bubble. We need rules. Anarcho-capitalism does nothing good for society. Now don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of big government either. We could do away with most of the laws out there today as far as I'm concerned. But in the areas where were really SHOULD have regulation and government oversight there is none. That is no coincidence. Basic "look over here" while they screw us over there.

Healthcare, if not the most regulated, is one of the top 3 regulated industries in the world. Healthcare does not suffer from a dearth of regulation.

 

[80zephyr]

[...]

For broken bones, there used to be bonesetters. Now, it costs $4,000 to treat a broken arm. Even still, that's cheaper than insurance. I have no insurance. I could probably break an arm every year and save money by opting out of insurance.

[...]

What you're suggesting makes sense -- provided you never have a major medical expense.

E.g., I resented paying the monthly fee for GHI & Blue Shield coverage back in 1997. But when a stomach ache turned out to be colon cancer it ended up costing $117,000 for surgery, etc.

I got away with a $1,200 co-payment. If I didn't have the insurance I would have ended up either paying that big bill or losing my house.

In 2003 I turned up with prostate cancer. There went another $92,000 treatment (surgery & radiation), but by then I was on Medicare.

Now I'm dealing with some kind of lumbar agony which as yet is undiagnosed. But I've already started racking up specialist bills and I'm scheduled for an MRI next week (God bless Medicare). So what you're really talking about is a big financial risk which I am very glad I didn't take.

Those monthly insurance payments hurt -- but all it takes is one big medical problem to financially ruin you if you don't have the insurance. So until the U.S. adopts universal federal health care the medical industry and the insurance companies are calling the shots.

So then, what happens when the breadwinner is the one that gets sick, and, since he is to sick to work, can't pay the mortgage and other bills?

Do you also support an income while you are sick? I mean, its not fair if you lose your house when you are sick, is it?

Mark

 

[Ame®icano]

[...]

For broken bones, there used to be bonesetters. Now, it costs $4,000 to treat a broken arm. Even still, that's cheaper than insurance. I have no insurance. I could probably break an arm every year and save money by opting out of insurance.

[...]

What you're suggesting makes sense -- provided you never have a major medical expense.

E.g., I resented paying the monthly fee for GHI & Blue Shield coverage back in 1997. But when a stomach ache turned out to be colon cancer it ended up costing $117,000 for surgery, etc.

I got away with a $1,200 co-payment. If I didn't have the insurance I would have ended up either paying that big bill or losing my house.

In 2003 I turned up with prostate cancer. There went another $92,000 treatment (surgery & radiation), but by then I was on Medicare.

Now I'm dealing with some kind of lumbar agony which as yet is undiagnosed. But I've already started racking up specialist bills and I'm scheduled for an MRI next week (God bless Medicare). So what you're really talking about is a big financial risk which I am very glad I didn't take.

Those monthly insurance payments hurt -- but all it takes is one big medical problem to financially ruin you if you don't have the insurance. So until the U.S. adopts universal federal health care the medical industry and the insurance companies are calling the shots.

So then, what happens when the breadwinner is the one that gets sick, and, since he is to sick to work, can't pay the mortgage and other bills?

Do you also support an income while you are sick? I mean, its not fair if you lose your house when you are sick, is it?

Mark

First, don't buy something you can't really afford. Second, if you do, have a plan B such as second income, life insurance etc.

 

[80zephyr]

[...]

For broken bones, there used to be bonesetters. Now, it costs $4,000 to treat a broken arm. Even still, that's cheaper than insurance. I have no insurance. I could probably break an arm every year and save money by opting out of insurance.

[...]

What you're suggesting makes sense -- provided you never have a major medical expense.

E.g., I resented paying the monthly fee for GHI & Blue Shield coverage back in 1997. But when a stomach ache turned out to be colon cancer it ended up costing $117,000 for surgery, etc.

I got away with a $1,200 co-payment. If I didn't have the insurance I would have ended up either paying that big bill or losing my house.

In 2003 I turned up with prostate cancer. There went another $92,000 treatment (surgery & radiation), but by then I was on Medicare.

Now I'm dealing with some kind of lumbar agony which as yet is undiagnosed. But I've already started racking up specialist bills and I'm scheduled for an MRI next week (God bless Medicare). So what you're really talking about is a big financial risk which I am very glad I didn't take.

Those monthly insurance payments hurt -- but all it takes is one big medical problem to financially ruin you if you don't have the insurance. So until the U.S. adopts universal federal health care the medical industry and the insurance companies are calling the shots.

So then, what happens when the breadwinner is the one that gets sick, and, since he is to sick to work, can't pay the mortgage and other bills?

Do you also support an income while you are sick? I mean, its not fair if you lose your house when you are sick, is it?

Mark

First, don't buy something you can't really afford. Second, if you do, have a plan B such as second income, life insurance etc.

I doubt most breadwinners can afford to be off work for any length of time. Regardless of any plan.

Mark

 

[dadsgm]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity. But, because it is a necessity, it has become a racket, a scam, a con, and legalized theft. Those in the medical and health care profession know that people can't set their own bones, stitch themselves up, remove kidney stones, and perform their own organ transplants. We all need those in the health care profession, there's no other choice. When people have no choice, it opens the doors for those that see easy money and a means to take unfair advantage of the situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/18/health/cost-of-health-care-poll.html?ref=health
•A bill of over $40,000 for the 20 minutes it took a doctor to stitch a cut.

• • An ambulance ride of only 200 feet that cost $3,421.

• • A healthy, insured couple “slowly going under” because their premiums, co-pays and deductibles are now twice as high as their mortgage and food costs.

Something is bad wrong when a hospital can charge $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy room, $5.00 for an aspirin, and $20.00 for a breakfast that consist of powdered eggs and wheat toast. Something is bad wrong when a doctor can charge $300.00 for an office visit that consist of a five minute conversation. Something is bad wrong when a single blood pressure pill cost $200.00.

Pharmaceuticals, labs, clinics, hospitals, doctors, and others in the health care and medical profession, are exercising price gouging and getting away with it. Insurance companies are also contributing to this outrage. But, even though insurance companies are taking part in the scam, it's actually those that over-bill for services that are to blame for the soaring cost to consumers. Insurance companies operate on the information contained in bills submitted by health care providers.

What makes matters even worse, is the fact that many receive less than satisfactory service, and some even die from mal-practice and infections acquired while in the hospital. Doctors often try to justify their fees by stating that they pay enormous amounts for mal-practice insurance. Well, if everyone in the medical and health care industry would clean up their own profession, there would be far fewer mal-practice law suits.

Another excuse given for high cost is the cost of equipment such as MRI machines. An MRI cost around $4,000 and up. How long does it take at that rate before the machine has paid for itself? And, does the cost for an MRI dramatically decrease after the machine has paid for itself? The bottom line is that health care is a scam and it's a legal scam. Its legalized theft. And, it's bankrupting America.

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity. But, because it is a necessity, it has become a racket, a scam, a con, and legalized theft. Those in the medical and health care profession know that people can't set their own bones, stitch themselves up, remove kidney stones, and perform their own organ transplants. We all need those in the health care profession, there's no other choice. When people have no choice, it opens the doors for those that see easy money and a means to take unfair advantage of the situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/18/health/cost-of-health-care-poll.html?ref=health
•A bill of over $40,000 for the 20 minutes it took a doctor to stitch a cut.

• • An ambulance ride of only 200 feet that cost $3,421.

• • A healthy, insured couple “slowly going under” because their premiums, co-pays and deductibles are now twice as high as their mortgage and food costs.

Something is bad wrong when a hospital can charge $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy room, $5.00 for an aspirin, and $20.00 for a breakfast that consist of powdered eggs and wheat toast. Something is bad wrong when a doctor can charge $300.00 for an office visit that consist of a five minute conversation. Something is bad wrong when a single blood pressure pill cost $200.00.

Pharmaceuticals, labs, clinics, hospitals, doctors, and others in the health care and medical profession, are exercising price gouging and getting away with it. Insurance companies are also contributing to this outrage. But, even though insurance companies are taking part in the scam, it's actually those that over-bill for services that are to blame for the soaring cost to consumers. Insurance companies operate on the information contained in bills submitted by health care providers.

What makes matters even worse, is the fact that many receive less than satisfactory service, and some even die from mal-practice and infections acquired while in the hospital. Doctors often try to justify their fees by stating that they pay enormous amounts for mal-practice insurance. Well, if everyone in the medical and health care industry would clean up their own profession, there would be far fewer mal-practice law suits.

Another excuse given for high cost is the cost of equipment such as MRI machines. An MRI cost around $4,000 and up. How long does it take at that rate before the machine has paid for itself? And, does the cost for an MRI dramatically decrease after the machine has paid for itself? The bottom line is that health care is a scam and it's a legal scam. Its legalized theft. And, it's bankrupting America.

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

 

[boedicca]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity. But, because it is a necessity, it has become a racket, a scam, a con, and legalized theft. Those in the medical and health care profession know that people can't set their own bones, stitch themselves up, remove kidney stones, and perform their own organ transplants. We all need those in the health care profession, there's no other choice. When people have no choice, it opens the doors for those that see easy money and a means to take unfair advantage of the situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/18/health/cost-of-health-care-poll.html?ref=health
•A bill of over $40,000 for the 20 minutes it took a doctor to stitch a cut.

• • An ambulance ride of only 200 feet that cost $3,421.

• • A healthy, insured couple “slowly going under” because their premiums, co-pays and deductibles are now twice as high as their mortgage and food costs.

Something is bad wrong when a hospital can charge $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy room, $5.00 for an aspirin, and $20.00 for a breakfast that consist of powdered eggs and wheat toast. Something is bad wrong when a doctor can charge $300.00 for an office visit that consist of a five minute conversation. Something is bad wrong when a single blood pressure pill cost $200.00.

Pharmaceuticals, labs, clinics, hospitals, doctors, and others in the health care and medical profession, are exercising price gouging and getting away with it. Insurance companies are also contributing to this outrage. But, even though insurance companies are taking part in the scam, it's actually those that over-bill for services that are to blame for the soaring cost to consumers. Insurance companies operate on the information contained in bills submitted by health care providers.

What makes matters even worse, is the fact that many receive less than satisfactory service, and some even die from mal-practice and infections acquired while in the hospital. Doctors often try to justify their fees by stating that they pay enormous amounts for mal-practice insurance. Well, if everyone in the medical and health care industry would clean up their own profession, there would be far fewer mal-practice law suits.

Another excuse given for high cost is the cost of equipment such as MRI machines. An MRI cost around $4,000 and up. How long does it take at that rate before the machine has paid for itself? And, does the cost for an MRI dramatically decrease after the machine has paid for itself? The bottom line is that health care is a scam and it's a legal scam. Its legalized theft. And, it's bankrupting America.

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity. But, because it is a necessity, it has become a racket, a scam, a con, and legalized theft. Those in the medical and health care profession know that people can't set their own bones, stitch themselves up, remove kidney stones, and perform their own organ transplants. We all need those in the health care profession, there's no other choice. When people have no choice, it opens the doors for those that see easy money and a means to take unfair advantage of the situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/18/health/cost-of-health-care-poll.html?ref=health
•A bill of over $40,000 for the 20 minutes it took a doctor to stitch a cut.

• • An ambulance ride of only 200 feet that cost $3,421.

• • A healthy, insured couple “slowly going under” because their premiums, co-pays and deductibles are now twice as high as their mortgage and food costs.

Something is bad wrong when a hospital can charge $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy room, $5.00 for an aspirin, and $20.00 for a breakfast that consist of powdered eggs and wheat toast. Something is bad wrong when a doctor can charge $300.00 for an office visit that consist of a five minute conversation. Something is bad wrong when a single blood pressure pill cost $200.00.

Pharmaceuticals, labs, clinics, hospitals, doctors, and others in the health care and medical profession, are exercising price gouging and getting away with it. Insurance companies are also contributing to this outrage. But, even though insurance companies are taking part in the scam, it's actually those that over-bill for services that are to blame for the soaring cost to consumers. Insurance companies operate on the information contained in bills submitted by health care providers.

What makes matters even worse, is the fact that many receive less than satisfactory service, and some even die from mal-practice and infections acquired while in the hospital. Doctors often try to justify their fees by stating that they pay enormous amounts for mal-practice insurance. Well, if everyone in the medical and health care industry would clean up their own profession, there would be far fewer mal-practice law suits.

Another excuse given for high cost is the cost of equipment such as MRI machines. An MRI cost around $4,000 and up. How long does it take at that rate before the machine has paid for itself? And, does the cost for an MRI dramatically decrease after the machine has paid for itself? The bottom line is that health care is a scam and it's a legal scam. Its legalized theft. And, it's bankrupting America.

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

Well, if health insurance is not a apart of the health care industry, I certainly don't know what is. So, even though medical bills are processed through health insurance companies, they're not a part of the health care industry? Gee, I certainly never heard of that before. Exactly how are they not a part of the health care industry?

 

[dblack]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity. But, because it is a necessity, it has become a racket, a scam, a con, and legalized theft. Those in the medical and health care profession know that people can't set their own bones, stitch themselves up, remove kidney stones, and perform their own organ transplants. We all need those in the health care profession, there's no other choice. When people have no choice, it opens the doors for those that see easy money and a means to take unfair advantage of the situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/18/health/cost-of-health-care-poll.html?ref=health
•A bill of over $40,000 for the 20 minutes it took a doctor to stitch a cut.

• • An ambulance ride of only 200 feet that cost $3,421.

• • A healthy, insured couple “slowly going under” because their premiums, co-pays and deductibles are now twice as high as their mortgage and food costs.

Something is bad wrong when a hospital can charge $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy room, $5.00 for an aspirin, and $20.00 for a breakfast that consist of powdered eggs and wheat toast. Something is bad wrong when a doctor can charge $300.00 for an office visit that consist of a five minute conversation. Something is bad wrong when a single blood pressure pill cost $200.00.

Pharmaceuticals, labs, clinics, hospitals, doctors, and others in the health care and medical profession, are exercising price gouging and getting away with it. Insurance companies are also contributing to this outrage. But, even though insurance companies are taking part in the scam, it's actually those that over-bill for services that are to blame for the soaring cost to consumers. Insurance companies operate on the information contained in bills submitted by health care providers.

What makes matters even worse, is the fact that many receive less than satisfactory service, and some even die from mal-practice and infections acquired while in the hospital. Doctors often try to justify their fees by stating that they pay enormous amounts for mal-practice insurance. Well, if everyone in the medical and health care industry would clean up their own profession, there would be far fewer mal-practice law suits.

Another excuse given for high cost is the cost of equipment such as MRI machines. An MRI cost around $4,000 and up. How long does it take at that rate before the machine has paid for itself? And, does the cost for an MRI dramatically decrease after the machine has paid for itself? The bottom line is that health care is a scam and it's a legal scam. Its legalized theft. And, it's bankrupting America.

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

Exactly.

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity. But, because it is a necessity, it has become a racket, a scam, a con, and legalized theft. Those in the medical and health care profession know that people can't set their own bones, stitch themselves up, remove kidney stones, and perform their own organ transplants. We all need those in the health care profession, there's no other choice. When people have no choice, it opens the doors for those that see easy money and a means to take unfair advantage of the situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/18/health/cost-of-health-care-poll.html?ref=health
•A bill of over $40,000 for the 20 minutes it took a doctor to stitch a cut.

• • An ambulance ride of only 200 feet that cost $3,421.

• • A healthy, insured couple “slowly going under” because their premiums, co-pays and deductibles are now twice as high as their mortgage and food costs.

Something is bad wrong when a hospital can charge $1,800 a day for a tiny filthy room, $5.00 for an aspirin, and $20.00 for a breakfast that consist of powdered eggs and wheat toast. Something is bad wrong when a doctor can charge $300.00 for an office visit that consist of a five minute conversation. Something is bad wrong when a single blood pressure pill cost $200.00.

Pharmaceuticals, labs, clinics, hospitals, doctors, and others in the health care and medical profession, are exercising price gouging and getting away with it. Insurance companies are also contributing to this outrage. But, even though insurance companies are taking part in the scam, it's actually those that over-bill for services that are to blame for the soaring cost to consumers. Insurance companies operate on the information contained in bills submitted by health care providers.

What makes matters even worse, is the fact that many receive less than satisfactory service, and some even die from mal-practice and infections acquired while in the hospital. Doctors often try to justify their fees by stating that they pay enormous amounts for mal-practice insurance. Well, if everyone in the medical and health care industry would clean up their own profession, there would be far fewer mal-practice law suits.

Another excuse given for high cost is the cost of equipment such as MRI machines. An MRI cost around $4,000 and up. How long does it take at that rate before the machine has paid for itself? And, does the cost for an MRI dramatically decrease after the machine has paid for itself? The bottom line is that health care is a scam and it's a legal scam. Its legalized theft. And, it's bankrupting America.

Those are the prices you get when the Government and Insurance Companies are involved. Remove them especially the government and watch prices begin to level of at what the market will pay.

And don't forget everyone else in the medical profession. They all have a hand in it.

Scuze me. But INSURANCE is not part of the Health Care Profession.

A worthwhile point to make, but our abuse of insurance is at the heart of our dysfunctional health care market. Of course, all that was needed to fix that was nothing. It was changing already, as people were beginning to realize that insurance as a financing mechanism is a rip-off - and we we're bailing. That's why the insurance industry finally "acquiesced" to federal regulation. They saw that their gig was up an figured they could use government to mandate themselves perpetual customers. Apparently, they were right.