A Necessity, NOT A Luxury

[Ame®icano]

When families have to make these decisions, when it's presented as a choice between blowing the family savings or squeezing every last minute out of life, people make better decisions. My own father was faced with that dilemma, and chose to accept reality and leave his wife with a decent retirement, rather than live his last few years clinging to life in a hospital bed and leave her with nothing.

Yes, some people do have choices, but not everyone. It's impossible for everyone to pay the cost of proper health care. And, since it's a necessity, debt or spending life savings are choices we're forced into. We can't expect or allow everyone to just die on the streets because of the high cost of health care. We are a humane and civil society that tends to care for others, even it means a portion of our tax dollars are spent on the poor and less fortunate among us.

"Some people" aren't the problem. The problem isn't social safety nets. The problem is that we're trying to fit everyone into those safety nets, which defeats the purpose. The only way we can help out the people who fall through the cracks is if most of us are paying our own way.

Not so long ago, liberals were claiming that health care is a right. All because of "some people" in safety net cracks. After ACA, there are still people in those cracks. It's time for them to start pushing for health care as "right" again, most likely in next election cycle.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Capitalism at it's best...

What capitalism? The government sets almost ALL the rules of engagement in healthcare. There is almost zero competition in the medical device because of the government, the insurance mandated by the government to providers and the list goes on and on.

But do not let the facts get in the way of a good old socialist yammering of the "workings of capitalism" where there is none.

Government fucked the system up, therefore we need more government!

Exactly.

People who claim we can't pay for doctors and medications, selling us idea that we can pay for the same if government runs it.

I would never ever say that. We should pay for services rendered. I'm against "FREE" everything. But, health care has gotten way too expensive for all but the very wealthy to pay all out of pocket. I would never ever say that the government should run any public program or service. We are already damaged enough by government intervention and regulations.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I would never ever say that the government should run any public program or service.

What?

 

[Sonny Clark]

When families have to make these decisions, when it's presented as a choice between blowing the family savings or squeezing every last minute out of life, people make better decisions. My own father was faced with that dilemma, and chose to accept reality and leave his wife with a decent retirement, rather than live his last few years clinging to life in a hospital bed and leave her with nothing.

Yes, some people do have choices, but not everyone. It's impossible for everyone to pay the cost of proper health care. And, since it's a necessity, debt or spending life savings are choices we're forced into. We can't expect or allow everyone to just die on the streets because of the high cost of health care. We are a humane and civil society that tends to care for others, even it means a portion of our tax dollars are spent on the poor and less fortunate among us.

"Some people" aren't the problem. The problem isn't social safety nets. The problem is that we're trying to fit everyone into those safety nets, which defeats the purpose. The only way we can help out the people who fall through the cracks is if most of us are paying our own way.

Not so long ago, liberals were claiming that health care is a right. All because of "some people" in safety net cracks. After ACA, there are still people in those cracks. It's time for them to start pushing for health care as "right" again, most likely in next election cycle.

Health care is a necessity, not a right. And, it doesn't matter whether one is a Liberal, Conservative, Republican, Democrat, Right Wing, Left Wing, or an Independent, everyone needs proper health care. Everyone should see and understand that people can NOT treat themselves, heal themselves, cure themselves, transplant organs themselves, nor remove kidney stones themselves. We need those in the health care profession to provide those services.

 

[Sonny Clark]

I would never ever say that the government should run any public program or service.

What?

Re-read it please. I think that I said it correctly.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The only entity in existence to run the mythological "public" anything is government. Otherwise it is considered private. That is the distinction we generally use to separate what is run by government and what is not.

 

[Sonny Clark]

The only entity in existence to run the mythological "public" anything is government. Otherwise it is considered private. That is the distinction we generally use to separate what is run by government and what is not.

When it comes to health care, the government does way more damage than good. Government needs to stay out of it and allow the public sector to regulate and control it. The government is all about favoritism and kick-backs.

 

[Ame®icano]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity....
...

Newsflash, you're paying for all those necessities.

Of course I am, and so is millions of others. I do NOT expect those things to be free of charge. I do NOT mind paying for what I get or use. I do NOT expect everything for free, and never ever implied such.

I agree, you as individual, were talking about necessities. Food, water, shelter, healthcare...

But when government talk about all those necessities (see communist manifesto, or USSR constitution) they calling them rights. Why? Because, that's the only way that will make people to accept complete government control over it.

Group all those things together in package. Water is necessity. Food is necessity too. What about roof over the head? Sure. Throw in healthcare. How about a good paying government job. Why not? You cant be happy without gun control, right?

People fall for those things. Free stuff. As long someone else is paying for it.

If a "right" requires others to actively work and spend their time to provide someone else with something, it is by definition not a right.

 

[Ame®icano]

Capitalism at it's best...

What capitalism? The government sets almost ALL the rules of engagement in healthcare. There is almost zero competition in the medical device because of the government, the insurance mandated by the government to providers and the list goes on and on.

But do not let the facts get in the way of a good old socialist yammering of the "workings of capitalism" where there is none.

Government fucked the system up, therefore we need more government!

Exactly.

People who claim we can't pay for doctors and medications, selling us idea that we can pay for the same if government runs it.

I would never ever say that. We should pay for services rendered. I'm against "FREE" everything. But, health care has gotten way too expensive for all but the very wealthy to pay all out of pocket. I would never ever say that the government should run any public program or service. We are already damaged enough by government intervention and regulations.

Health care became too expensive exactly because of government involvement. And the government solution to keep the price low is more government involvement.

So, if we are, as you say, "damaged enough by government involvement", what the real solution would be?

 

[Sonny Clark]

Just like water, food, shelter, and clothing, proper health care is a necessity....
...

Newsflash, you're paying for all those necessities.

Of course I am, and so is millions of others. I do NOT expect those things to be free of charge. I do NOT mind paying for what I get or use. I do NOT expect everything for free, and never ever implied such.

I agree, you as individual, were talking about necessities. Food, water, shelter, healthcare...

But when government talk about all those necessities (see communist manifesto, or USSR constitution) they calling them rights. Why? Because, that's the only way that will make people to accept complete government control over it.

Group all those things together in package. Water is necessity. Food is necessity too. What about roof over the head? Sure. Throw in healthcare. How about a good paying government job. Why not? You cant be happy without gun control, right?

People fall for those things. Free stuff. As long someone else is paying for it.

If a "right" requires others to actively work and spend their time to provide someone else with something, it is by definition not a right.

Yes, food, water, shelter, clothing, and health care are very much necessities. We, as a civilized and humane people, would never deny those to anyone. We do not need the government to use those necessities as instruments of control and enslavement. I am totally against allowing government to have absolute control over human needs and necessities such as I have already mentioned. They are required needs by all humans, regardless of the size of one's wallet. They are to be provided as best we can, available to all, no exceptions. We are not so uncivil and cold hearted as to withhold life enabling necessities to anyone. The government is way too big, way too controlling, and way to powerful for the general good of the people. The Washington Brotherhood acts as an entity unto itself, answerable to no one except itself. We have failed ourselves, and have failed our fellow man by allowing this to happen. As far as "FREE" stuff, the only ones that deserve "FREE" stuff ( necessities ), are those poor and less fortunate among us. We can't turn our backs to them and allow them to perish for lack of food, water, shelter, clothing, and health care when needed. We must help our fellow man and do what's right and just. We are not animalistic, nor are we barbaric by nature. We have hearts and human feelings and emotions. How can we stand-by and watch someone starve to death, go without fresh drinking water, go naked, and suffer due to lack of proper medical treatment? That is not who we are, nor who we want to be. Remember when looking down on the poor and less fortunate, "except for the grace of GOD, there goes I". We all could be in their place under the right situation and circumstances.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The only entity in existence to run the mythological "public" anything is government. Otherwise it is considered private. That is the distinction we generally use to separate what is run by government and what is not.

When it comes to health care, the government does way more damage than good. Government needs to stay out of it and allow the public sector to regulate and control it. The government is all about favoritism and kick-backs.

Once again, the public sector distinction is made to show it is a government entity of some form. Otherwise it is all considered private. I agree with what you're saying, but you'r using public where you should be using private.

 

[dblack]

There's no other way to think of it, or to see it. The poor and less fortunate can't afford proper health care, and most can't pay for services out of their own pockets. And, yes, It's a money game where GREED is the only rule to play by. In addition, you have not shown nor explain any other possible solution that would be doable and workable. Your main argument is that everyone should pay for their own health care, and those that can't, can just die in the streets.

I said nothing like that. From what I'm reading, you're making less and less sense as you go on. Are you ok?

 

[Sonny Clark]

Capitalism at it's best...

What capitalism? The government sets almost ALL the rules of engagement in healthcare. There is almost zero competition in the medical device because of the government, the insurance mandated by the government to providers and the list goes on and on.

But do not let the facts get in the way of a good old socialist yammering of the "workings of capitalism" where there is none.

Government fucked the system up, therefore we need more government!

Exactly.

People who claim we can't pay for doctors and medications, selling us idea that we can pay for the same if government runs it.

I would never ever say that. We should pay for services rendered. I'm against "FREE" everything. But, health care has gotten way too expensive for all but the very wealthy to pay all out of pocket. I would never ever say that the government should run any public program or service. We are already damaged enough by government intervention and regulations.

Health care became too expensive exactly because of government involvement. And the government solution to keep the price low is more government involvement.

So, if we are, as you say, "damaged enough by government involvement", what the real solution would be?

"What real solution would there be?". Thanks for asking. As I have said, written about, mentioned, and preached for many years now, the solution is to convince, beg if necessary, voters to STOP electing and re-electing professional politicians to serve in government. Remember, professional politicians are all about egos, greed, self-service, power, and climbing the political ladder at all cost. Once elected to office, they exert their will, and not the will of the people. Professional politicians are bought and paid for. We have a Lobbyist controlled U.S. Congress, and an oval office bought and paid for. All of them owe favors. All of them accept money and other favors for their votes on the floors of Congress. Honesty and politics mix like water and oil. The voting public could send a very strong message by writing-in a candidate instead of voting for those that the wealthy, the powerful, and the influential have placed on the ballots. Until that happens, we can all expect the same from government as we're getting now, and have gotten for many decades, through many administrations. As it stands now, the majority of the voting public suffers from "Blind Patriotism", which is a terrible affliction. I can go into more detail if you'd like.

 

[Sonny Clark]

The only entity in existence to run the mythological "public" anything is government. Otherwise it is considered private. That is the distinction we generally use to separate what is run by government and what is not.

When it comes to health care, the government does way more damage than good. Government needs to stay out of it and allow the public sector to regulate and control it. The government is all about favoritism and kick-backs.

Once again, the public sector distinction is made to show it is a government entity of some form. Otherwise it is all considered private. I agree with what you're saying, but you'r using public where you should be using private.

OK, for your benefit, I'll use "private". What I meant by saying public, is anything other than government. I am against government control.

 

[Sonny Clark]

There's no other way to think of it, or to see it. The poor and less fortunate can't afford proper health care, and most can't pay for services out of their own pockets. And, yes, It's a money game where GREED is the only rule to play by. In addition, you have not shown nor explain any other possible solution that would be doable and workable. Your main argument is that everyone should pay for their own health care, and those that can't, can just die in the streets.

I said nothing like that. From what I'm reading, you're making less and less sense as you go on. Are you ok?

Yes, I'm fine, thank you. What doesn't make sense to you? Just let me know and I'll be glad to explain it in a different way.

 

[dblack]

There's no other way to think of it, or to see it. The poor and less fortunate can't afford proper health care, and most can't pay for services out of their own pockets. And, yes, It's a money game where GREED is the only rule to play by. In addition, you have not shown nor explain any other possible solution that would be doable and workable. Your main argument is that everyone should pay for their own health care, and those that can't, can just die in the streets.

I said nothing like that. From what I'm reading, you're making less and less sense as you go on. Are you ok?

Yes, I'm fine, thank you. What doesn't make sense to you? Just let me know and I'll be glad to explain it in a different way.

The public/private thing lost me entirely.

 

[Ame®icano]

What capitalism? The government sets almost ALL the rules of engagement in healthcare. There is almost zero competition in the medical device because of the government, the insurance mandated by the government to providers and the list goes on and on.

But do not let the facts get in the way of a good old socialist yammering of the "workings of capitalism" where there is none.

Government fucked the system up, therefore we need more government!

Exactly.

People who claim we can't pay for doctors and medications, selling us idea that we can pay for the same if government runs it.

I would never ever say that. We should pay for services rendered. I'm against "FREE" everything. But, health care has gotten way too expensive for all but the very wealthy to pay all out of pocket. I would never ever say that the government should run any public program or service. We are already damaged enough by government intervention and regulations.

Health care became too expensive exactly because of government involvement. And the government solution to keep the price low is more government involvement.

So, if we are, as you say, "damaged enough by government involvement", what the real solution would be?

"What real solution would there be?". Thanks for asking. As I have said, written about, mentioned, and preached for many years now, the solution is to convince, beg if necessary, voters to STOP electing and re-electing professional politicians to serve in government. Remember, professional politicians are all about egos, greed, self-service, power, and climbing the political ladder at all cost. Once elected to office, they exert their will, and not the will of the people. Professional politicians are bought and paid for. We have a Lobbyist controlled U.S. Congress, and an oval office bought and paid for. All of them owe favors. All of them accept money and other favors for their votes on the floors of Congress. Honesty and politics mix like water and oil. The voting public could send a very strong message by writing-in a candidate instead of voting for those that the wealthy, the powerful, and the influential have placed on the ballots. Until that happens, we can all expect the same from government as we're getting now, and have gotten for many decades, through many administrations. As it stands now, the majority of the voting public suffers from "Blind Patriotism", which is a terrible affliction. I can go into more detail if you'd like.

Some people love free stuff. Some people love honesty.

Those who love free stuff will keep voting for those who are promising them free stuff.

Based on what you wrote, you prefer honesty. You want career politicians out of office. You want liars out of office too. Only group that doesn't fit in what you just described above are teapartiers. So, do you support them?

 

[Sonny Clark]

There's no other way to think of it, or to see it. The poor and less fortunate can't afford proper health care, and most can't pay for services out of their own pockets. And, yes, It's a money game where GREED is the only rule to play by. In addition, you have not shown nor explain any other possible solution that would be doable and workable. Your main argument is that everyone should pay for their own health care, and those that can't, can just die in the streets.

I said nothing like that. From what I'm reading, you're making less and less sense as you go on. Are you ok?

Yes, I'm fine, thank you. What doesn't make sense to you? Just let me know and I'll be glad to explain it in a different way.

The public/private thing lost me entirely.

Understandable. I meant non-government. I guess that I should've said "private" instead of "public". Anyway, I did mean non-government. I'm sorry that I wasn't a little more clear as to what I meant.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Government fucked the system up, therefore we need more government!

Exactly.

People who claim we can't pay for doctors and medications, selling us idea that we can pay for the same if government runs it.

I would never ever say that. We should pay for services rendered. I'm against "FREE" everything. But, health care has gotten way too expensive for all but the very wealthy to pay all out of pocket. I would never ever say that the government should run any public program or service. We are already damaged enough by government intervention and regulations.

Health care became too expensive exactly because of government involvement. And the government solution to keep the price low is more government involvement.

So, if we are, as you say, "damaged enough by government involvement", what the real solution would be?

"What real solution would there be?". Thanks for asking. As I have said, written about, mentioned, and preached for many years now, the solution is to convince, beg if necessary, voters to STOP electing and re-electing professional politicians to serve in government. Remember, professional politicians are all about egos, greed, self-service, power, and climbing the political ladder at all cost. Once elected to office, they exert their will, and not the will of the people. Professional politicians are bought and paid for. We have a Lobbyist controlled U.S. Congress, and an oval office bought and paid for. All of them owe favors. All of them accept money and other favors for their votes on the floors of Congress. Honesty and politics mix like water and oil. The voting public could send a very strong message by writing-in a candidate instead of voting for those that the wealthy, the powerful, and the influential have placed on the ballots. Until that happens, we can all expect the same from government as we're getting now, and have gotten for many decades, through many administrations. As it stands now, the majority of the voting public suffers from "Blind Patriotism", which is a terrible affliction. I can go into more detail if you'd like.

Some people love free stuff. Some people love honesty.

Those who love free stuff will keep voting for those who are promising them free stuff.

Based on what you wrote, you prefer honesty. You want career politicians out of office. You want liars out of office too. Only group that doesn't fit in what you just described above are teapartiers. So, do you support them?

I support anyone that is pro-America. I support anyone that believes in rights, freedom, liberty, justice, and a truly representative government seated in Washington. I support all that want justice to mean justice, freedom to mean freedom, and those that believe that the government should always act in the best interest of this nation and her citizens. I am totally against an anti-America government, such we have now, and have had for many decades now. I am totally against anti-America representatives seated in Congress. I am totally against political labels that divide us. I believe that the only label we should claim is "AMERICAN". I believe that we should be Americans for America. Division has destroyed us. Division gives the Washington Brotherhood power. The enemy of anti-America politicians is a united citizenry. As long as they can keep us divided, they win, we lose. I am very much for a government that protects and serves the citizenry, and only serves the citizenry. I am for a government by the people, and for the people. I am totally against a government by the rich and powerful, for the rich and powerful. By the way, what you're calling "free stuff" is paid for by taxpayers. That includes those that pay sales tax, and any other tax. Even those receiving some form of government assistance, are paying into the system each time they make a purchase. The government collects money from taxpaying citizens, so that money belongs to taxpaying citizens. Had you rather see foreign governments get it? Had you rather it spent on the care and support of illegal immigrants? Had you rather it continue to go to rich farmers and big oil? What about continuing to supply weapons to drug lords and terrorists? What other ways would you like to see the government spend your hard earned tax dollars?

 

[Ame®icano]

Exactly.

People who claim we can't pay for doctors and medications, selling us idea that we can pay for the same if government runs it.

I would never ever say that. We should pay for services rendered. I'm against "FREE" everything. But, health care has gotten way too expensive for all but the very wealthy to pay all out of pocket. I would never ever say that the government should run any public program or service. We are already damaged enough by government intervention and regulations.

Health care became too expensive exactly because of government involvement. And the government solution to keep the price low is more government involvement.

So, if we are, as you say, "damaged enough by government involvement", what the real solution would be?

"What real solution would there be?". Thanks for asking. As I have said, written about, mentioned, and preached for many years now, the solution is to convince, beg if necessary, voters to STOP electing and re-electing professional politicians to serve in government. Remember, professional politicians are all about egos, greed, self-service, power, and climbing the political ladder at all cost. Once elected to office, they exert their will, and not the will of the people. Professional politicians are bought and paid for. We have a Lobbyist controlled U.S. Congress, and an oval office bought and paid for. All of them owe favors. All of them accept money and other favors for their votes on the floors of Congress. Honesty and politics mix like water and oil. The voting public could send a very strong message by writing-in a candidate instead of voting for those that the wealthy, the powerful, and the influential have placed on the ballots. Until that happens, we can all expect the same from government as we're getting now, and have gotten for many decades, through many administrations. As it stands now, the majority of the voting public suffers from "Blind Patriotism", which is a terrible affliction. I can go into more detail if you'd like.

Some people love free stuff. Some people love honesty.

Those who love free stuff will keep voting for those who are promising them free stuff.

Based on what you wrote, you prefer honesty. You want career politicians out of office. You want liars out of office too. Only group that doesn't fit in what you just described above are teapartiers. So, do you support them?

I support anyone that is pro-America. I support anyone that believes in rights, freedom, liberty, justice, and a truly representative government seated in Washington. I support all that want justice to mean justice, freedom to mean freedom, and those that believe that the government should always act in the best interest of this nation and her citizens. I am totally against an anti-America government, such we have now, and have had for many decades now. I am totally against anti-America representatives seated in Congress. I am totally against political labels that divide us. I believe that the only label we should claim is "AMERICAN". I believe that we should be Americans for America. Division has destroyed us. Division gives the Washington Brotherhood power. The enemy of anti-America politicians is a united citizenry. As long as they can keep us divided, they win, we lose. I am very much for a government that protects and serves the citizenry, and only serves the citizenry. I am for a government by the people, and for the people. I am totally against a government by the rich and powerful, for the rich and powerful. By the way, what you're calling "free stuff" is paid for by taxpayers. That includes those that pay sales tax, and any other tax. Even those receiving some form of government assistance, are paying into the system each time they make a purchase. The government collects money from taxpaying citizens, so that money belongs to taxpaying citizens. Had you rather see foreign governments get it? Had you rather it spent on the care and support of illegal immigrants? Had you rather it continue to go to rich farmers and big oil? What about continuing to supply weapons to drug lords and terrorists? What other ways would you like to see the government spend your hard earned tax dollars?

You probably know that when is say "free stuff" means it's free for those who consume it. OK, lets go back to the "necessities".

We're told we owe something to those who don't have it, whatever it is, or we're worthless. If we don't give them that, whatever it is, system is gonna take it anyways. It's a system which is breeding hatred and malice to both our peers and our "representatives". We're told we have moral obligations... and we're lied to. America became one giant credit card in hands of politicians where only about a half of us is getting the bill.