18 months and still no miracles

[Meister]

--->whoosh--->

The cartoon brought home to me the question what would McCain have done? What would Palin do, if faced with those same problems all within a year and a half?

Compounding the very real problems is a 21st Century presidency having to deal with channel-changing, text-messaging, viral e-mailing, Twittering, self-appointed experts wanting instant gratification. McCain has a wicked temper and would be throwing tantrums. Palin's self-image is so great, she would have just quit.

Who holds the office of the presidency? Let's just stick with that question, because it is the reality.

Huh? He hardly operates in a vacuum. I don't know what you want "the question" to be.

HUH?

Yet, you have no problem with the "what If's"? I have to laugh at "what If" questions because the imagination is just boundless with them. I like to stick to the "what is, is.

 

[Cuyo]

If McCain had done nothing after entering office besides trying to assure confidence, he would have done better than the Big 0. He has thoroughly confused everyone, blown his chance fix things when handed a blank check and now is going to remove about 5% from the economy by allowing the "Bush Tax Cuts" to expire.

Luckily for his constituancy, which is largely out of work, the unemployed will not have to suffer by having their withholding increased.

Unluckily for his constituancy, as long as he in office, they will never find work again.

So, let's check the balance sheet. We are DOWN to 14.6 million unemployed. The stimulus is about a trillion, actually more, but let's use that number.

1 trillion divided by 14.6 million = $68,493. All of the unemployed could have recieved $68,493 so far. This would be a monthly benefit of $3,805. If you're unemployed and did not recieve $3,805 per month since the Big 0 took office, you're getting cheated.


Employment Situation Summary

Whose to say it wouldn't have been 30 million without stimulus? or 40? You seem to forget just how precipitous the situation was. Direct distribution as you propose, eg, throwing money out of airplanes, would not fix the problem. You need to get at the root.

I'm not necessarily saying Obama's stimulii have done the trick, but I will say that 1. The situation is better now than it was, and 2. We don't know what might have happened if we'd done nothing (And "We" includes you). It could have been much, much worse.

Think what you want, but people looking for jobs or having trouble paying their bills, are not consoling themselves with such thoughts.

I agree that people are feeling left behind by the relief efforts, and I agree that a lot of people are misplacing blame. But as half of you try to make me look ridiculous for saying so, I remind you that the elements for a disastrous contraction of the economy were all present. Banks were failing, credit was frozen, businesses were having their credit lines cancelled resulting in massive layoffs. Massive layoffs result in masses of broke individuals, and broke individuals are a drain on the economy, resulting in more job losses, and round and round we go.

If we're to argue how we should have handled it differently, lets have at it. But undermining the potential of the problem we had, and the much worse one we could have had, is counter productive.

 

[Rozman]

It's amazing when it's bad it's Bush's fault even though the decline of the economy started during the last six months of his 8 year Presidency.Oh by the way the dems held the congress during that time.Now when it's Obama and the dems in power and they promised that had all the answers and they were the answer for everything it's like it's Bush's fault and we're trying to fix the economy.....Wait a second you guys said vote for us and we will fix this.They pat themselves on the back all the time and have done nothing about the one and only thing people care about.....Where are the F _ _ k _ _ G jobs?

 

[Shadow]

I thank Obama, I still have a job. Republicans wanted to ship all of them overseas.

Could you imagine what would have happened if we elected McCain?

He would have finished the destruction of the US that Republicans started under Bush.
I think it's something about the end of the world will bring Jesus back, but it's never been clear why they want this country destroyed. All we know is they have worked tirelessly to achieve that goal.

How would he have done that,with a democratic congress?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Looks like that hopey-changey went right down the drain.

--->whoosh--->

The cartoon brought home to me the question what would McCain have done? What would Palin do, if faced with those same problems all within a year and a half?

Compounding the very real problems is a 21st Century presidency having to deal with channel-changing, text-messaging, viral e-mailing, Twittering, self-appointed experts wanting instant gratification. McCain has a wicked temper and would be throwing tantrums. Palin's self-image is so great, she would have just quit.

I guess we will never find out because obama won. He took the job Who care what McCain would have done because he's not the one that said he was in charge. obama saiud that.

 

[boedicca]

Moral: Beware of False Gods accessorized with Styrofoam Pillars and Teleprompters.

 

[code1211]

You know those would be the results...how? All the lip service for over a year by Republicans is just that. Generating revenue without destroying programs that benefit a majority of society is a lot easier said than done. I'm extremely anxious to watch them try.

Living in a bankrupt country is a lot worse. Both sides are just trying to kick the can to the other party until the inevitable time period comes when the social services collapse and our country goes bankrupt. Neither side wants to be the side that is PROACTIVE in cutting spending because, of course, people will whine and cry about their entitlement being gone and vote them out.

Our system is unsustainable. It's going to have to be cut. No way around it. Conservative values need to be learned, because a time is coming when self-reliance, responsibility and independence will be the ONLY way to get by in our country. Relying on the gov't for one's needs is coming to an end. The only real debate is which party will be in charge when it happens, because neither wants to be the one that prevents it through proactive and gradual spending cuts.

What would make you think our country is bankrupt? We are the wealthiest nation on earth. There is no country right now who is on a good financial footing. Would you like to trade places with China?
We tried those good Conservative values for eight years. Those good ole, self reliant, let big business operate with minimal government intervention, lets remove environmental and safety regulations and let business prosper....we ended up with a collapsed economy and ecological and safety disasters.
The ones who rely the most on the government for its needs are not the poor but the wealthy. They are the ones demanding economic protections, waivers of regulations, tax incentives, relaxation of labor rules...

Please cite the regulations passed by the Democrat Congress and vetoed by Bush that would have averted the things you are talking about. The Dems controlled Congress since the elections of 2006. Every committee. Every dollar spent.

Are you blaming only one party for the melt down?

Have you noticed any thing funny in the fact that Freddie and Fanny are still going strong?

 

[code1211]

--->whoosh--->

The cartoon brought home to me the question what would McCain have done? What would Palin do, if faced with those same problems all within a year and a half?

Compounding the very real problems is a 21st Century presidency having to deal with channel-changing, text-messaging, viral e-mailing, Twittering, self-appointed experts wanting instant gratification. McCain has a wicked temper and would be throwing tantrums. Palin's self-image is so great, she would have just quit.

If McCain had done nothing after entering office besides trying to assure confidence, he would have done better than the Big 0. He has thoroughly confused everyone, blown his chance fix things when handed a blank check and now is going to remove about 5% from the economy by allowing the "Bush Tax Cuts" to expire.

Luckily for his constituancy, which is largely out of work, the unemployed will not have to suffer by having their withholding increased.

Unluckily for his constituancy, as long as he in office, they will never find work again.

So, let's check the balance sheet. We are DOWN to 14.6 million unemployed. The stimulus is about a trillion, actually more, but let's use that number.

1 trillion divided by 14.6 million = $68,493. All of the unemployed could have recieved $68,493 so far. This would be a monthly benefit of $3,805. If you're unemployed and did not recieve $3,805 per month since the Big 0 took office, you're getting cheated.


Employment Situation Summary

Oh by all means use just statistical numbers to prove your case and say nothing about the REASONS for unemployment.

Well, try this one on. 2 Trillion. That's the amount of cash that Big Business is sitting on because it can't figure out what the Big 0 is going to do next.

The Big 0 squander a little over a trillion in stimulus money that did not stimulate because he was making paybacks, bribes and payoffs. Chicago politics gone national.

A Stimulus program if it is a Stimulus, causes people to spend money. His stimulus caused people to stop spending money and hold on to it for the bad times that are coming according to his forcasts.

That he did not understand this and that he has already spent all his cash is a problem. That he spent all that cash with no good result and now wants to spend more in the same way is telling.

What is it that repeating the same action and expecting a different result might indicate?

 

[code1211]

I thank Obama, I still have a job. Republicans wanted to ship all of them overseas.
Could you imagine what would have happened if we elected McCain?

He would have finished the destruction of the US that Republicans started under Bush.

I think it's something about the end of the world will bring Jesus back, but it's never been clear why they want this country destroyed. All we know is they have worked tirelessly to achieve that goal.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. When will you look at the world today? How many jobs has the Big 0's progam added to this economy in the real world?

Not enough, but more than what would exist without it. You people refuse to look at facts.

How Much Stimulus Funding is Going to Your County? | ProPublica Recovery Tracker

How many jobs were there when the Big 0 entered office? How much money did he spend to create jobs? How many jobs are there now?

This is not rocket science. It's a pretty easy calculation.

 

[Meister]

I thank Obama, I still have a job. Republicans wanted to ship all of them overseas.
Could you imagine what would have happened if we elected McCain?

He would have finished the destruction of the US that Republicans started under Bush.

I think it's something about the end of the world will bring Jesus back, but it's never been clear why they want this country destroyed. All we know is they have worked tirelessly to achieve that goal.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. When will you look at the world today? How many jobs has the Big 0's progam added to this economy in the real world?

Not enough, but more than what would exist without it. You people refuse to look at facts.

How Much Stimulus Funding is Going to Your County? | ProPublica Recovery Tracker

That would be your opinion, right?

 

[topspin]

republiklans hate facts as much as they hate the liberal idea of higher education.
What is the difference in the stock market when comparing Dem vs Repub presidents?
What was Obama's first year? Bush's 8 yr average return?

Hint: A rising tide lifts all boats

 

[The Rabbi]

republiklans hate facts as much as they hate the liberal idea of higher education.
What is the difference in the stock market when comparing Dem vs Repub presidents?
What was Obama's first year? Bush's 8 yr average return?

Hint: A rising tide lifts all boats

Actually your facts suck. In fact you suck. WHat did the stock market return in the first 18 months of Bush's presidency vs Obama's?
Where is the stock market going in the next 18 months? The correct answer is the crapper, as Obama has created the most anti business environment of any president since FDR.
And what is the "liberal idea of higher education?" SOmething paid for by someone else to indoctrinate people into the idea that western civilization is the cause of all mankind's problems?

 

[Sherry]

Whose to say it wouldn't have been 30 million without stimulus? or 40? You seem to forget just how precipitous the situation was. Direct distribution as you propose, eg, throwing money out of airplanes, would not fix the problem. You need to get at the root.

I'm not necessarily saying Obama's stimulii have done the trick, but I will say that 1. The situation is better now than it was, and 2. We don't know what might have happened if we'd done nothing (And "We" includes you). It could have been much, much worse.

Think what you want, but people looking for jobs or having trouble paying their bills, are not consoling themselves with such thoughts.

I agree that people are feeling left behind by the relief efforts, and I agree that a lot of people are misplacing blame. But as half of you try to make me look ridiculous for saying so, I remind you that the elements for a disastrous contraction of the economy were all present. Banks were failing, credit was frozen, businesses were having their credit lines cancelled resulting in massive layoffs. Massive layoffs result in masses of broke individuals, and broke individuals are a drain on the economy, resulting in more job losses, and round and round we go.

If we're to argue how we should have handled it differently, lets have at it. But undermining the potential of the problem we had, and the much worse one we could have had, is counter productive.

I don't think you look ridiculous for pointing out the obvious. All the candidates ran on a platform that we were headed for the crapper and they would save us. Well so now people will hold the winner accountable.

Obama assured people under his leadership that unemployment wouldn't go above 8%. During his recent visit to Wisconsin, with the national average near 10%, he tried the "it could be worse" strategy by telling them at least it's not 12, 13 or 15%, when they actually are near that. He looks like an out of touch fool, and that rests squarely at his feet.

 

[topspin]

republiklans hate facts as much as they hate the liberal idea of higher education.
What is the difference in the stock market when comparing Dem vs Repub presidents?
What was Obama's first year? Bush's 8 yr average return?

Hint: A rising tide lifts all boats

Actually your facts suck. In fact you suck. WHat did the stock market return in the first 18 months of Bush's presidency vs Obama's?
Where is the stock market going in the next 18 months? The correct answer is the crapper, as Obama has created the most anti business environment of any president since FDR.
And what is the "liberal idea of higher education?" SOmething paid for by someone else to indoctrinate people into the idea that western civilization is the cause of all mankind's problems?

you hate facts you loser, Obama returned more in 1 year than Bush's 8.
Answer Democrats give .5% more that's before Obama's 40%

 

[The Rabbi]

republiklans hate facts as much as they hate the liberal idea of higher education.
What is the difference in the stock market when comparing Dem vs Repub presidents?
What was Obama's first year? Bush's 8 yr average return?

Hint: A rising tide lifts all boats

Actually your facts suck. In fact you suck. WHat did the stock market return in the first 18 months of Bush's presidency vs Obama's?
Where is the stock market going in the next 18 months? The correct answer is the crapper, as Obama has created the most anti business environment of any president since FDR.
And what is the "liberal idea of higher education?" SOmething paid for by someone else to indoctrinate people into the idea that western civilization is the cause of all mankind's problems?

you hate facts you loser, Obama returned more in 1 year than Bush's 8.
Answer Democrats give .5% more that's before Obama's 40%

Try looking at 18 month to 18 mopnth.
Never mind. You are a partisan hack loser and not even very good at that.
On to iggy you go. You are too stupid even to debate.

 

[Cuyo]

Think what you want, but people looking for jobs or having trouble paying their bills, are not consoling themselves with such thoughts.

I agree that people are feeling left behind by the relief efforts, and I agree that a lot of people are misplacing blame. But as half of you try to make me look ridiculous for saying so, I remind you that the elements for a disastrous contraction of the economy were all present. Banks were failing, credit was frozen, businesses were having their credit lines cancelled resulting in massive layoffs. Massive layoffs result in masses of broke individuals, and broke individuals are a drain on the economy, resulting in more job losses, and round and round we go.

If we're to argue how we should have handled it differently, lets have at it. But undermining the potential of the problem we had, and the much worse one we could have had, is counter productive.

I don't think you look ridiculous for pointing out the obvious. All the candidates ran on a platform that we were headed for the crapper and they would save us. Well so now people will hold the winner accountable.

Obama assured people under his leadership that unemployment wouldn't go above 8%. During his recent visit to Wisconsin, with the national average near 10%, he tried the "it could be worse" strategy by telling them at least it's not 12, 13 or 15%, when they actually are near that. He looks like an out of touch fool, and that rests squarely at his feet.

Yes, and it may very well become his "Read my lips" moment that costs him re-election, whether voters are truly voting in their best interests or not. It wasn't a lie; it was a prediction; Just as I believe Bush Sr's "Read my lips" speech was not a "Lie." Unfortunately, unemployment did go above 8%, and stayed there for some time. This does not necessarily mean the path we've taken is the wrong one; That's what I'm trying to point out. So here we're really just 2 armchair quarterbacks; you say Barack is using the "It could be worse 'strategy;'" Has it ever crossed your mind that in fact it's not just a 'Strategy' and that it in fact would have been worse-- Perhaps far worse?

It begins with an understanding of what economic expansion really is; That is, when we say economic expansion happened at such-and-such rate last year, do you really understand what has taken place? If you haven't had college level economics, it's very unlikely that you do (And please, I don't mean to insult you, it's just a question). That said the processes that allow "Economic expansion" to take place (It's really just a massive Ponzi scheme) could very rapidly reverse and result in massive poverty if the right elements are present. I think they were, and to an extent they still are.

 

[Meister]

republiklans hate facts as much as they hate the liberal idea of higher education.
What is the difference in the stock market when comparing Dem vs Repub presidents?
What was Obama's first year? Bush's 8 yr average return?

Hint: A rising tide lifts all boats

Comparing a 8 year return with a 1 year return????
What a disengenuous fuck you are.

 

[Cuyo]

Since we're talking, Sherry, I don't know what your education level is regarding economics. You could be anywhere from not smarter than a 5th grader to a post-graduate PhD in global economics. However, as we all know without question, without debate, the Rabbi is the smartest person on this board, in every educational discipline imaginable. He's brilliant; a genius, a muse almost. Einstein would blush in his presence.

So please, Ribeye, why don't you share some of your profoundly brilliant insight with us, and explain in laymens terms, "What has actually happened when we have 'economic expansion?'"

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Think what you want, but people looking for jobs or having trouble paying their bills, are not consoling themselves with such thoughts.

I agree that people are feeling left behind by the relief efforts, and I agree that a lot of people are misplacing blame. But as half of you try to make me look ridiculous for saying so, I remind you that the elements for a disastrous contraction of the economy were all present. Banks were failing, credit was frozen, businesses were having their credit lines cancelled resulting in massive layoffs. Massive layoffs result in masses of broke individuals, and broke individuals are a drain on the economy, resulting in more job losses, and round and round we go.

If we're to argue how we should have handled it differently, lets have at it. But undermining the potential of the problem we had, and the much worse one we could have had, is counter productive.

I don't think you look ridiculous for pointing out the obvious. All the candidates ran on a platform that we were headed for the crapper and they would save us. Well so now people will hold the winner accountable.

Obama assured people under his leadership that unemployment wouldn't go above 8%. During his recent visit to Wisconsin, with the national average near 10%, he tried the "it could be worse" strategy by telling them at least it's not 12, 13 or 15%, when they actually are near that. He looks like an out of touch fool, and that rests squarely at his feet.

Looks like? He is an out of touch fool.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

If Obama is the shining example of what "higher education" gets us, I'll take a igh school dropout. Obama's about as clueless as they come.