18 months and still no miracles

[MaggieMae]

Since we're talking, Sherry, I don't know what your education level is regarding economics. You could be anywhere from not smarter than a 5th grader to a post-graduate PhD in global economics. However, as we all know without question, without debate, the Rabbi is the smartest person on this board, in every educational discipline imaginable. He's brilliant; a genius, a muse almost. Einstein would blush in his presence.

So please, Ribeye, why don't you share some of your profoundly brilliant insight with us, and explain in laymens terms, "What has actually happened when we have 'economic expansion?'"

Unfortunately, he probably used his Iggy Button on you and won't see your question. I wonder if Staples has those?

 

[MaggieMae]

Unfortunately its easier to still blame BUSH.

Wonder how long thats gonna work for em???? LOL

How about until somebody decides to rewrite history?

 

[MaggieMae]

Since we're talking, Sherry, I don't know what your education level is regarding economics. You could be anywhere from not smarter than a 5th grader to a post-graduate PhD in global economics. However, as we all know without question, without debate, the Rabbi is the smartest person on this board, in every educational discipline imaginable. He's brilliant; a genius, a muse almost. Einstein would blush in his presence.

So please, Ribeye, why don't you share some of your profoundly brilliant insight with us, and explain in laymens terms, "What has actually happened when we have 'economic expansion?'"

Economic expansion means that companies are hiring, that consumer spending and business investment are increasing, and that demand is rising.
None of those things has happened under Obama. We will relive the Japanese experience in the 1990s and get stimulus after stimulus with ultra low rates. Hint, this doesn't work.

Obama's 8% unemployment prediction should have been made on the basis of something other than wishful thinking. So there are two possibilities: He lied. Or his economic advisors don't ahve a clue what they are talking about.
Of course both could be right, and probably are.

Japan pulled itself out of its recession and its economy grew by 9% last year.

 

[MaggieMae]

If there were an award for most brainwashed far left liberal on this site, you'd contend.

Rather than trying to reverse the progressive brainwashing you've endured, allow me to propose you with a math formula:

Past Republicans: Wanted to export jobs.

Current Democrats: Want to keep importing workers.

Exporting Jobs + Importing Workers = What for the American people?

Solve that equation, and you'll understand a portion of the Tea Party message. Both sides suck. We are trying to clean out the right. You need to try to clean out the left. We cannot export jobs while importing workers. The math doesn't work out well for us.

I agree except for one point: We need to educate Americans to prepare them for the talent we IMPORT (thinking here only of the H1-B visas for the high paying scientific and technical jobs, and not lettuce pickers). Conservatives think educating Americans is a dumb proposition and that it should be done by home schooling or private schools that not every kid has access to.

Whoa, not so fast my friend.

Conservatives think educating Americans is a dumb proposition? I strongly disagree. We think that is the most important foundation of our country. Accurate education to be specific. The government run public school system is a failure. Thats fairly easy to say, as a whole. And you say not all people have access to home schooling or private school, but thats not so. Anyone can home school, just some decide not to or don't want to have one parent at home not working. Private school, yes, not everyone can afford.

Thats why the right is pushing for school vouchers, so everyone can access these private schools, or to send their kid to a better public school. BUT......liberal teacher's unions are blocking that. They know school vouchers will equal school choice, and their jobs will depend on the quality or perception of quality of their school. In short, some of the lazy, careless teachers would be held accountable because parents could simply take their kids out of that school. A dwindling student base would equal teachers not being needed there.

Just for example, as sad as this is to say, watching Glenn Beck the last 6 months I've learned far more about the positive and powerful contributions African Americans have made to the founding and success of this country than I did in K-12 or 4 years of college. I know he's supposed to be a racist hate monger and all, but the public school system has failed in just that small example, as I was unaware of the massive contributions they made until watching that show and the history he describes.

So, if the left is truly serious about proper education, the FIRST thing that must be done is school vouchers for all people who can't afford private school. Give them their tax dollars back, and let them pick the school they want their kid to go to. Free market education would hold schools and teacher's unions accountable so our kids don't sit in class watching a movie while their teacher plays on facebook.

I'm all for school vouchers (and ironically, so is Obama) and I'm all for holding teachers accountable and not giving them undeserved tenure (and ironically, so is Obama). The problem is how quickly can something like that be accomplished? Where public schools are phased out and charter schools phased in? We're running out of time, have already lost our competitive edge, and the debate is over making public schools just as functional as charter schools. Unfortunately, that task still falls on school boards made up of political factions rather than the best interests of the students.

 

[MaggieMae]

Whoa, not so fast my friend.

Conservatives think educating Americans is a dumb proposition? I strongly disagree. We think that is the most important foundation of our country. Accurate education to be specific. The government run public school system is a failure. Thats fairly easy to say, as a whole. And you say not all people have access to home schooling or private school, but thats not so. Anyone can home school, just some decide not to or don't want to have one parent at home not working. Private school, yes, not everyone can afford.

Thats why the right is pushing for school vouchers, so everyone can access these private schools, or to send their kid to a better public school. BUT......liberal teacher's unions are blocking that. They know school vouchers will equal school choice, and their jobs will depend on the quality or perception of quality of their school. In short, some of the lazy, careless teachers would be held accountable because parents could simply take their kids out of that school. A dwindling student base would equal teachers not being needed there.

Just for example, as sad as this is to say, watching Glenn Beck the last 6 months I've learned far more about the positive and powerful contributions African Americans have made to the founding and success of this country than I did in K-12 or 4 years of college. I know he's supposed to be a racist hate monger and all, but the public school system has failed in just that small example, as I was unaware of the massive contributions they made until watching that show and the history he describes.

So, if the left is truly serious about proper education, the FIRST thing that must be done is school vouchers for all people who can't afford private school. Give them their tax dollars back, and let them pick the school they want their kid to go to. Free market education would hold schools and teacher's unions accountable so our kids don't sit in class watching a movie while their teacher plays on facebook.

Amazing, isn't it??

It truly is amazing. I keep hearing what a racist hate monger he is. Yet.....he keeps disguising it by constantly showing us more examples and facts, from experts, not his own words, of the incredible contributions blacks made in this country from it's original colonial founding, through independence, all the wars, etc, etc.

I can say without a doubt, the public education system is nearly criminal in negligence to inner city and rural black children who are not taught this history, but instead are assured that they will keep being oppressed and owed something from someone else.

You know damned well that if Obama started touting the successes of black educators himself, he would be criticized as favoring better education for lower-income blacks and not whites. That's apparent just from all the criticism he's gotten over a tax on tanning salons, for God's sake. THAT is what would make "news," and not the actual historic successes within the black community.

There are plenty of visible successes by the black education community, the most successful being the Harlem School of Success. There were also excellent stories about post-Katrina schools set up in ultra poor neighborhoods of New Orleans where administrators took the opportunity to build their education systems from the ground up. Arne Duncan has really taken a hands-on approach to cleaning up public education, and since he's white, his message isn't apt to get skewed. Sad, but true.

 

[Meister]

Not enough, but more than what would exist without it. You people refuse to look at facts.

How Much Stimulus Funding is Going to Your County? | ProPublica Recovery Tracker

That would be your opinion, right?

It's my opinion until proven otherwise, and so far, nobody can.

Got it...your opinion.

 

[Meister]

republiklans hate facts as much as they hate the liberal idea of higher education.
What is the difference in the stock market when comparing Dem vs Repub presidents?
What was Obama's first year? Bush's 8 yr average return?

Hint: A rising tide lifts all boats

Comparing a 8 year return with a 1 year return????
What a disengenuous fuck you are.

that's all the facts we have pal, I bet after 4 he's still way higher in return than Bush

Yep, they are the facts. Topspin.....pal....you can't compare a 8 year AVERAGE with a 1 year return.
If you want to bet go to Vegas, because it means nothing on this board.

 

[Sherry]

Amazing, isn't it??

It truly is amazing. I keep hearing what a racist hate monger he is. Yet.....he keeps disguising it by constantly showing us more examples and facts, from experts, not his own words, of the incredible contributions blacks made in this country from it's original colonial founding, through independence, all the wars, etc, etc.

I can say without a doubt, the public education system is nearly criminal in negligence to inner city and rural black children who are not taught this history, but instead are assured that they will keep being oppressed and owed something from someone else.

You know damned well that if Obama started touting the successes of black educators himself, he would be criticized as favoring better education for lower-income blacks and not whites. That's apparent just from all the criticism he's gotten over a tax on tanning salons, for God's sake. THAT is what would make "news," and not the actual historic successes within the black community.

There are plenty of visible successes by the black education community, the most successful being the Harlem School of Success. There were also excellent stories about post-Katrina schools set up in ultra poor neighborhoods of New Orleans where administrators took the opportunity to build their education systems from the ground up. Arne Duncan has really taken a hands-on approach to cleaning up public education, and since he's white, his message isn't apt to get skewed. Sad, but true.

Who is asking Obama to tout anything?? We're discussing the history of African Americans which has not been taught in the pubic schools for generations.

 

[Meister]

Comparing a 8 year return with a 1 year return????
What a disengenuous fuck you are.

that's all the facts we have pal, I bet after 4 he's still way higher in return than Bush

Yep, they are the facts. Topspin.....pal....you can't compare a 8 year AVERAGE with a 1 year return. Do remember that the market went from around 7000 and some change to 14,000 and some change under Bush, over 8 years. Barry's market is down a few percentage points from the 1st of this year.
If you want to bet go to Vegas, because it means nothing on this board.

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html



http://mytradersjournal.com/stock-options/2009/07/19/dow-jones-chart-10-year-monthly-july-17-2009/

 

[Claudette]

Unfortunately its easier to still blame BUSH.

Wonder how long thats gonna work for em???? LOL

How about until somebody decides to rewrite history?

OL'BO is making some history of his own.

Lets see how well that plays out shall we?? LOL

 

[topspin]

I don't see you disputing the higher return under dem presidents either. Which is increased by Obama's 40% yr 1.

Don't let facts get in the way of some good racist hate.

 

[The Rabbi]

I don't see you disputing the higher return under dem presidents either. Which is increased by Obama's 40% yr 1.

Don't let facts get in the way of some good racist hate.

What race is Obama? Who brought this up?

 

[Cuyo]

Economic expansion means that companies are hiring, that consumer spending and business investment are increasing, and that demand is rising.
None of those things has happened under Obama. We will relive the Japanese experience in the 1990s and get stimulus after stimulus with ultra low rates. Hint, this doesn't work.

Obama's 8% unemployment prediction should have been made on the basis of something other than wishful thinking. So there are two possibilities: He lied. Or his economic advisors don't ahve a clue what they are talking about.
Of course both could be right, and probably are.

That's a pretty rudimentary answer. You're in the ballpark. Those things you quote are indications of economic expansion, but they're not actual "Economic expansion."

I'll give you a hint, or maybe just rephrase. Money is intangible, and economic expansion is the disbursement of more money through an economy, including government expenses and net exports. So if money is intangible, and real property and personal property (goods) are finite in quantity, how can an economy "Expand?"

I'll give you a hint: You are dead wrong on every issue. DOes the term "stagflation" mean anything to you? There was more money through the economy (M1 rose) but no wealth was created.
Money is not intangible. Real and personal property are not finite (how many CAT scan machines existed in 1900?).
You're really batting 1000 here.

OK, I won't take that personally, because you're probably just having trouble coming to terms with how much of an idiot you are. But if you read carefully, I haven't even issued an opinion on the issue. I've just laid out some basic elements of what's taken place, and tried to extrapolate how much understanding there is in this thread about what economic expansion actually is. You "Defined" economic expansion as follows:

Economic expansion means that companies are hiring, that consumer spending and business investment are increasing, and that demand is rising.

That doesn't indicate you have much of an understanding at all. You know what tends to happen when an economy is expanding, but you don't understand how an economy gets to that point; That is, what's actually taking place that allows those indicators to happen. It's ok, I'm not anti-idiot, but being an idiot there's a place far more suited to people of your education level.
Sean Hannity Discussion

Try it out, you'll find plenty of people on your own level who also have a 5th grade understanding of global issues, but will think you're just brilliant for blaming every thing that ails everyone on Democrats.

 

[Meister]

I don't see you disputing the higher return under dem presidents either. Which is increased by Obama's 40% yr 1.

Don't let facts get in the way of some good racist hate.

Racist? I see I pwn'd you when you had to bring up the race card. It has nothing to do with race, it was you being a disengenuous fuck about comparing 1 year to an 8 year average. Market did really good over the 8 years under Bush, and only a partisan hack would say different.
If you had even mentioned Clinton with this conversation, I would have said the market did quite well under Clinton, which he was a democrat.
Topspin just don't let the facts get in the way of your yarn.

 

[topspin]

I don't see you disputing the higher return under dem presidents either. Which is increased by Obama's 40% yr 1.

Don't let facts get in the way of some good racist hate.

Racist? I see I pwn'd you when you had to bring up the race card. It has nothing to do with race, it was you being a disengenuous fuck about comparing 1 year to an 8 year average. Market did really good over the 8 years under Bush, and only a partisan hack would say different.
If you had even mentioned Clinton with this conversation, I would have said the market did quite well under Clinton, which he was a democrat.
Topspin just don't let the facts get in the way of your yarn.

dude are you poor?
Please check the s&p 500 when bush got in and when he left.

 

[Meister]

I don't see you disputing the higher return under dem presidents either. Which is increased by Obama's 40% yr 1.

Don't let facts get in the way of some good racist hate.

Did I mention that the market went to hell after the dems took over the Senate and Congress. hmmmm, let's see you spin that one.

 

[Meister]

I don't see you disputing the higher return under dem presidents either. Which is increased by Obama's 40% yr 1.

Don't let facts get in the way of some good racist hate.

Racist? I see I pwn'd you when you had to bring up the race card. It has nothing to do with race, it was you being a disengenuous fuck about comparing 1 year to an 8 year average. Market did really good over the 8 years under Bush, and only a partisan hack would say different.
If you had even mentioned Clinton with this conversation, I would have said the market did quite well under Clinton, which he was a democrat.
Topspin just don't let the facts get in the way of your yarn.

dude are you poor?
Please check the s&p 500 when bush got in and when he left.

Topspin, I made enough money under Clinton and Bush's market to be able to retire at 57. Maybe you should STFU, when you don't have a clue what your talking about. Both Bush and Obama inherited a recession, Bush had to deal with what 9-11 did to the markets. Please get an education.

 

[topspin]

January 20, 2001: 10,659
January 20, 2009: 8,279

-22.3%

 

[The Rabbi]

That's a pretty rudimentary answer. You're in the ballpark. Those things you quote are indications of economic expansion, but they're not actual "Economic expansion."

I'll give you a hint, or maybe just rephrase. Money is intangible, and economic expansion is the disbursement of more money through an economy, including government expenses and net exports. So if money is intangible, and real property and personal property (goods) are finite in quantity, how can an economy "Expand?"

I'll give you a hint: You are dead wrong on every issue. DOes the term "stagflation" mean anything to you? There was more money through the economy (M1 rose) but no wealth was created.
Money is not intangible. Real and personal property are not finite (how many CAT scan machines existed in 1900?).
You're really batting 1000 here.

OK, I won't take that personally, because you're probably just having trouble coming to terms with how much of an idiot you are. But if you read carefully, I haven't even issued an opinion on the issue. I've just laid out some basic elements of what's taken place, and tried to extrapolate how much understanding there is in this thread about what economic expansion actually is. You "Defined" economic expansion as follows:

Economic expansion means that companies are hiring, that consumer spending and business investment are increasing, and that demand is rising.

That doesn't indicate you have much of an understanding at all. You know what tends to happen when an economy is expanding, but you don't understand how an economy gets to that point; That is, what's actually taking place that allows those indicators to happen. It's ok, I'm not anti-idiot, but being an idiot there's a place far more suited to people of your education level.
Sean Hannity Discussion

Try it out, you'll find plenty of people on your own level who also have a 5th grade understanding of global issues, but will think you're just brilliant for blaming every thing that ails everyone on Democrats.

Ya know, people who are accomplished and knwo what they're talking about can talk down to other people.
You aren't one of them. You have no, zero, idea what you are talking about. You don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion, wouldn't know it if it bit you.
Sorry, dude. You are just too fucking stupid and ill informed to even debate. It just isn't worthwhile because you dont know what you dont know.

 

[Meister]

January 20, 2001: 10,659
January 20, 2009: 8,279

-22.3%

You need to look at what the market was in 2007 when the dems took over Congress and the Senate. Please don't be in denial.