Zone1 YHWH(Jehovah)

[kjw47]

Jesus said if you've seen Him you've seen the father. Jesus appeared many times in many forms in the Old Testament. Once again, like all JWs, you simply don't believe your own Bible. You believe the Watchtower magazine.

Yes because he is the Fathers image. He is not the Father--he taught--Our Father who art in heaven---see he is not the Father.

 

[BS Filter]

Abraham saw them. The bible is clear--no man has ever seen God--can you add 1+1

Can you read? This is from your Bible. Genesis 18.
Afterward, Jehovah+ appeared to him among the big trees of Mamʹre+ while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent during the hottest part of the day. 2 He looked up and saw three men standing some distance from him.+ When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them, and he bowed down to the ground. 3 Then he said: “Jehovah, if I have found favor in your eyes, please do not pass by your servant. 4 Please, let a little water be brought and have your feet washed;+ then recline under the tree. 5 Seeing that you have come here to your servant, let me bring a piece of bread so that you may refresh yourselves.* Then you may go on your way.” At this they said: “All right. You may do as you have spoken.”

Abraham called them "Jehovah". The last verse says they spoke as one person. Explain this to me, Mr. Bible scholar.

 

[kjw47]

Can you read? This is from your Bible. Genesis 18.
Afterward, Jehovah+ appeared to him among the big trees of Mamʹre+ while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent during the hottest part of the day. 2 He looked up and saw three men standing some distance from him.+ When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them, and he bowed down to the ground. 3 Then he said: “Jehovah, if I have found favor in your eyes, please do not pass by your servant. 4 Please, let a little water be brought and have your feet washed;+ then recline under the tree. 5 Seeing that you have come here to your servant, let me bring a piece of bread so that you may refresh yourselves.* Then you may go on your way.” At this they said: “All right. You may do as you have spoken.”

Abraham called them "Jehovah". The last verse says they spoke as one person. Explain this to me, Mr. Bible scholar.

You are dense sir. In your analogy, the bible is filled with lies. Has any man ever seen God? John 1:18--Did he lie= No.

 

[BS Filter]

You are dense sir. In your analogy, the bible is filled with lies. Has any man ever seen God? John 1:18--Did he lie= No.

This is your Bible, the NWT. unbelievable. I'm beginning to believe that you're mentally ill.

 

[ninja007]

I think Jesus taught his disciple that if you have seem him you have seen the Father because they look alike.

Hebrews 1: 1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

the father has a body of flesh?

 

[onefour1]

the father has a body of flesh?

I believe he has a body of flesh and bones and that Jesus, in his resurrection, was only doing that which he has seen the Father do.

John 5:19
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

I believe that just as the Father has taken an immortal body of flesh and bones upon himself, so also has the Son taken a body upon himself. Jesus only follows in the footsteps of his Father.

 

[BS Filter]

J

I believe he has a body of flesh and bones and that Jesus, in his resurrection, was only doing that which he has seen the Father do.

John 5:19
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

I believe that just as the Father has taken an immortal body of flesh and bones upon himself, so also has the Son taken a body upon himself. Jesus only follows in the footsteps of his Father.

What about the Scripture where Jesus says God is Spirit?

 

[onefour1]

J

What about the Scripture where Jesus says God is Spirit?

I am guessing that you are referring to John 4:24

John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I would answer that God has reference to the Godhead. The Godhead includes God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. The Father and Jesus both have bodies of flesh and bones but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. The Holy Ghost, as a spirit, can interact with our spirits and guide and teach us by his grand influence, As a spirit he is even capable of entering into our bodies so that we can literally feel his witness. The gift of the Holy Ghost is a promise that if we seek after God in Faith, we may have the influence of the Holy Ghost to guide us into all truth. Thus we are to worship in spirit and truth. Because the Godhead consists of three separate and distinct persons, even you could understand that God has a body of flesh and bones because of Jesus and his resurrection. But we can also say that God is a spirit because the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit and is able to act upon us in a purely spiritual way. Not much is said about the Father in the Bible but we do know that Jesus is in the express image of the Father.

Hebrews 1:2-3
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Thus referring to the Godhead as God, we can say that God is a spirit and that God is also a resurrected being with a body of flesh and bones. John 4 speaks of worshipping the Father but that particular verse he does not say that the Father is a spirit, but uses the world, "God". I think this is for a reason. He is referring to the godhead and not just the Father.

 

[BS Filter]

I am guessing that you are referring to John 4:24

John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I would answer that God has reference to the Godhead. The Godhead includes God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. The Father and Jesus both have bodies of flesh and bones but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. The Holy Ghost, as a spirit, can interact with our spirits and guide and teach us by his grand influence, As a spirit he is even capable of entering into our bodies so that we can literally feel his witness. The gift of the Holy Ghost is a promise that if we seek after God in Faith, we may have the influence of the Holy Ghost to guide us into all truth. Thus we are to worship in spirit and truth. Because the Godhead consists of three separate and distinct persons, even you could understand that God has a body of flesh and bones because of Jesus and his resurrection. But we can also say that God is a spirit because the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit and is able to act upon us in a purely spiritual way. Not much is said about the Father in the Bible but we do know that Jesus is in the express image of the Father.

Hebrews 1:2-3
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Thus referring to the Godhead as God, we can say that God is a spirit and that God is also a resurrected being with a body of flesh and bones. John 4 speaks of worshipping the Father but that particular verse he does not say that the Father is a spirit, but uses the world, "God". I think this is for a reason. He is referring to the godhead and not just the Father.

What Scripture do you use to verify the Father is flesh and bones?

 

[onefour1]

What Scripture do you use to verify the Father is flesh and bones?

In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints our canon of scripture includes the following books:

The Bible
The Book of Mormon
The Doctrine and Covenants
The Pearl of Great Price

From the Doctrine and Covenants we have the following:

Doctrine and Covenants 130:22-23
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.

 

[BS Filter]

In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints our canon of scripture includes the following books:

The Bible
The Book of Mormon
The Doctrine and Covenants
The Pearl of Great Price

From the Doctrine and Covenants we have the following:

Doctrine and Covenants 130:22-23
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. We it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.

Yes, I understand that. That's why Christians consider LDS a cult.

 

[onefour1]

Yes, I understand that. That's why Christians consider LDS a cult.

Is it because they can't believe that God the Father, like his Son Jesus Christ, could have an immortal body of flesh and bones? Why then is it necessary that Jesus and all of us receive a resurrected immortal body of flesh and bones? Why do you suppose that is important? If having an immortal body of flesh and bones is of no value, then why does God bother with it?

 

[BS Filter]

Is it because they can't believe that God the Father, like his Son Jesus Christ, could have an immortal body of flesh and bones? Why then is it necessary that Jesus and all of us receive a resurrected immortal body of flesh and bones? Why do you suppose that is important? If having an immortal body of flesh and bones is of no value, then why does God bother with it?

Scripture. The problem is the additional books that LDS add.

 

[onefour1]

Scripture. The problem is the additional books that LDS add.

A primary belief that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints holds is that the church established in days of Christ and his apostles had fallen away from the truth and eventually fell away into a state of apostasy. Thus the priesthood of God was taken from the earth and all the saving ordinances performed by the priesthood were no longer on the earth. Thus baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost, priesthood ordination, etc were lost. We thus believe that for Satan not to prevail over the church, a restoration of the church and all the priesthood offices and ordinances would need to be restored. We believe that Joseph Smith was called as a prophet of the restoration and all the revelations given to him to restore the church were thus kept and written down and became scripture. We also believe that a history of ancient American peoples was revealed to Joseph Smith showing that God had dealings with the ancient of America and they kept their own records. Their record was revealed to Joseph Smith which is known as the Book of Mormon today. So whatever God has revealed in these latter-days we consider to be scripture as well what he has revealed in ancient times and we do not believe that revelation came to an end after the days of the Apostles but that God is capable of revealing his ways whenever he deems it necessary. Because of the great apostasy that occurred, we believe a restitution of all things was necessary that the church of Jesus Christ prevail in these latter-days before the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thus we have latter-day scripture.

 

[BS Filter]

A primary belief that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints holds is that the church established in days of Christ and his apostles had fallen away from the truth and eventually fell away into a state of apostasy. Thus the priesthood of God was taken from the earth and all the saving ordinances performed by the priesthood were no longer on the earth. Thus baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost, priesthood ordination, etc were lost. We thus believe that for Satan not to prevail over the church, a restoration of the church and all the priesthood offices and ordinances would need to be restored. We believe that Joseph Smith was called as a prophet of the restoration and all the revelations given to him to restore the church were thus kept and written down and became scripture. We also believe that a history of ancient American peoples was revealed to Joseph Smith showing that God had dealings with the ancient of America and they kept their own records. Their record was revealed to Joseph Smith which is known as the Book of Mormon today. So whatever God has revealed in these latter-days we consider to be scripture as well what he has revealed in ancient times and we do not believe that revelation came to an end after the days of the Apostles but that God is capable of revealing his ways whenever he deems it necessary. Because of the great apostasy that occurred, we believe a restitution of all things was necessary that the church of Jesus Christ prevail in these latter-days before the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thus we have latter-day scripture.

The priesthood fell away because Scripture says all believers now have access to God through Jesus. Jesus is our High Priest, again according to Scripture. Anyone who claims to be a prophet of God cannot be wrong even once. This is also what the Watchtower claims and why Christians see both LDS and the Watchtower as cults. You also believe that the LDS is the only true church. Is that correct?

 

[onefour1]

The priesthood fell away because Scripture says all believers now have access to God through Jesus. Jesus is our High Priest, again according to Scripture. Anyone who claims to be a prophet of God cannot be wrong even once. This is also what the Watchtower claims and why Christians see both LDS and the Watchtower as cults. You also believe that the LDS is the only true church. Is that correct?

It is true that through Christ all will have access to salvation in the kingdom of heaven either in this life or the life to come. Without Christ, all mankind throughout all ages of the world would not be saved in the kingdom of heaven nor would they find immortality. But in the church that Jesus established he called apostles and prophets, evangelists, teachers, etc to help spread the message of the gospel and to help in administering in the ordinances of the gospel. Jesus intended that for as long as his church was on the earth and until we all come in the unity of the faith that there would be priesthood and the offices that pertain there unto it. For this reason after Judas Iscariot apostatized and killed himself, the apostles saw that it was necessary to fill his position in the apostleship with Mathias. Later Paul was called directly by Jesus Christ himself to be an apostle of his church after Christ had ascended to heaven. Paul taught us the follow:

Ephesians 4:10-14
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Here Paul tells us that Jesus gave to his church priest in apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers, etc. until we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. I don't think we have reached that point yet and therefore we should expect to find the priesthood and offices of the priesthood within the body of Christ ( his church ). This seems to the way in which Jesus set up his church to operate even after he came upon the earth. So I believe that even though Jesus is the means by which all mankind can be saved, it is necessary that in his church the priesthood is necessary to spread the good word of the gospel among us and to perform the saving ordinances unto all who believe and are willing to enter the strait and narrow path.

You say, "Anyone who claims to be a prophet of God cannot be wrong even once.". There have been many prophets throughout history and to say that they are perfect men and never make a mistake is simply not true. Prophets, like all men, are imperfect and are subject to making mistakes. However, if they claim to be a true prophet of God and prophesy a false prophesy in the name of the Lord, then yes they are a false prophet.

We believe that because of the apostasy and the need for a restoration, God restored his true church through the Prophet Joseph Smith along with the priesthood and saving ordinances of the gospel. So yes, we believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church of Jesus Christ upon the earth and no other.

 

[BS Filter]

It is true that through Christ all will have access to salvation in the kingdom of heaven either in this life or the life to come. Without Christ, all mankind throughout all ages of the world would not be saved in the kingdom of heaven nor would they find immortality. But in the church that Jesus established he called apostles and prophets, evangelists, teachers, etc to help spread the message of the gospel and to help in administering in the ordinances of the gospel. Jesus intended that for as long as his church was on the earth and until we all come in the unity of the faith that there would be priesthood and the offices that pertain there unto it. For this reason after Judas Iscariot apostatized and killed himself, the apostles saw that it was necessary to fill his position in the apostleship with Mathias. Later Paul was called directly by Jesus Christ himself to be an apostle of his church after Christ had ascended to heaven. Paul taught us the follow:

Ephesians 4:10-14
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Here Paul tells us that Jesus gave to his church priest in apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers, etc. until we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. I don't think we have reached that point yet and therefore we should expect to find the priesthood and offices of the priesthood within the body of Christ ( his church ). This seems to the way in which Jesus set up his church to operate even after he came upon the earth. So I believe that even though Jesus is the means by which all mankind can be saved, it is necessary that in his church the priesthood is necessary to spread the good word of the gospel among us and to perform the saving ordinances unto all who believe and are willing to enter the strait and narrow path.

You say, "Anyone who claims to be a prophet of God cannot be wrong even once.". There have been many prophets throughout history and to say that they are perfect men and never make a mistake is simply not true. Prophets, like all men, are imperfect and are subject to making mistakes. However, if they claim to be a true prophet of God and prophesy a false prophesy in the name of the Lord, then yes they are a false prophet.

We believe that because of the apostasy and the need for a restoration, God restored his true church through the Prophet Joseph Smith along with the priesthood and saving ordinances of the gospel. So yes, we believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church of Jesus Christ upon the earth and no other.

We believe Joseph Smith was a false prophet. A new Testament prophet that Paul wrote about in Ephesians isn't the same as the Prophets of the Old Testament. Our belief is salvation is only found in Jesus. There are no ordinances or works that I can do to earn eternal life. I'm sure you've heard this before.

 

[onefour1]

We believe Joseph Smith was a false prophet. A new Testament prophet that Paul wrote about in Ephesians isn't the same as the Prophets of the Old Testament. Our belief is salvation is only found in Jesus. There are no ordinances or works that I can do to earn eternal life. I'm sure you've heard this before.

What is the difference between a New Testament prophet and an Old Testament prophet? To me, if God calls a person to be a prophet, it doesn't matter whether they were in the Old Testament or New Testament, a prophet of God is a prophet of God. Many non-LDS faiths have painted us as if we believe in saving ourselves by our works. That is so far from the truth. Without the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, it would not matter if we received all the ordinances and did all the works that are possible to do, we would still be unprofitable servants. This is taught in the Book of Mormon:

Mosiah 2:21
21 I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another—I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants.

We believe that it is God himself that requires us to receive ordinances and do good works before he will grant his saving grace upon us. It is not our works that save us but they are required of us before God will grant his grace. One such work is "repentance". If we do not repent, God will not save us.

Luke 13:3,5,27
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

The Lord also requires us to receive his ordinances.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Here the Lord teaches that unless we receive baptism of water and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. So even though our works do not save us, they are required of us before the saving grace of Jesus Christ will be granted unto us. So often the non-LDS point to the following verse to justify that we do not need to do works because they don't save us:

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This verse tells us that we are saved by grace alone and not by our works. However it does not teach that we should not do good works. The very next verse tells us that we are created to do good works.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So even though we are saved by grace alone, God does require that we perform good works before he will grant his saving grace upon us. Verse 8 tells us that we are saved by grace through faith. The Apostle James tells us that we cannot even have a true faith without good works:

James 2:14-26
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So we see from this verse that you cannot even have a true faith without doing good works. Yet faith is required before the Lord will grant his saving grace upon us. We do not earn salvation by doing good works. We simply do good works that we might receive the grace that Jesus promises us if we simply do what he asks of us. Without Jesus' grace, all the works and ordinances will get us nowhere. It is likened unto a 5 year old child who wishes to go to his grandparents for the weekend. His father tells him that if he cleans his room, he will drive him 50 miles to his grandparents for the weekend. The 5 year old cannot get to his grandparents without his parents taking him there. No matter how many times the child cleans his room, he can never get there on his own merit. He is reliant of his parent to get to his grandparents home. His efforts or works do not get him there. Only by fulfilling the wishes of his parents does he have the promise of getting to his grandparents home. It is only through the faithfulness of his parents that he is able to get there. It is the same with the Christ and his gospel. We can do all that we can do but we are still unprofitable servants without the saving grace of Jesus Christ. However, we must fulfill the works that he has given us to do before he will grant his grace upon us. That is how we view faith, works, and the saving grace of Jesus Christ. He has given us commandments to keep and we must fulfill those commandments such as repentance and keeping his ordinances before he will grant the grace unto us to enter into his kingdom.

 

[BS Filter]

What is the difference between a New Testament prophet and an Old Testament prophet? To me, if God calls a person to be a prophet, it doesn't matter whether they were in the Old Testament or New Testament, a prophet of God is a prophet of God. Many non-LDS faiths have painted us as if we believe in saving ourselves by our works. That is so far from the truth. Without the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, it would not matter if we received all the ordinances and did all the works that are possible to do, we would still be unprofitable servants. This is taught in the Book of Mormon:

Mosiah 2:21
21 I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another—I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants.

We believe that it is God himself that requires us to receive ordinances and do good works before he will grant his saving grace upon us. It is not our works that save us but they are required of us before God will grant his grace. One such work is "repentance". If we do not repent, God will not save us.

Luke 13:3,5,27
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

The Lord also requires us to receive his ordinances.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Here the Lord teaches that unless we receive baptism of water and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. So even though our works do not save us, they are required of us before the saving grace of Jesus Christ will be granted unto us. So often the non-LDS point to the following verse to justify that we do not need to do works because they don't save us:

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This verse tells us that we are saved by grace alone and not by our works. However it does not teach that we should not do good works. The very next verse tells us that we are created to do good works.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So even though we are saved by grace alone, God does require that we perform good works before he will grant his saving grace upon us. Verse 8 tells us that we are saved by grace through faith. The Apostle James tells us that we cannot even have a true faith without good works:

James 2:14-26
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So we see from this verse that you cannot even have a true faith without doing good works. Yet faith is required before the Lord will grant his saving grace upon us. We do not earn salvation by doing good works. We simply do good works that we might receive the grace that Jesus promises us if we simply do what he asks of us. Without Jesus' grace, all the works and ordinances will get us nowhere. It is likened unto a 5 year old child who wishes to go to his grandparents for the weekend. His father tells him that if he cleans his room, he will drive him 50 miles to his grandparents for the weekend. The 5 year old cannot get to his grandparents without his parents taking him there. No matter how many times the child cleans his room, he can never get there on his own merit. He is reliant of his parent to get to his grandparents home. His efforts or works do not get him there. Only by fulfilling the wishes of his parents does he have the promise of getting to his grandparents home. It is only through the faithfulness of his parents that he is able to get there. It is the same with the Christ and his gospel. We can do all that we can do but we are still unprofitable servants without the saving grace of Jesus Christ. However, we must fulfill the works that he has given us to do before he will grant his grace upon us. That is how we view faith, works, and the saving grace of Jesus Christ. He has given us commandments to keep and we must fulfill those commandments such as repentance and keeping his ordinances before he will grant the grace unto us to enter into his kingdom.

This is why I believe Jesus is the final word for these last days. Hebrews 1:1-2.

God’s Final Word: His Son​

1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

The scriptures in James isn't referring to salvation, but evidence of salvation. We are saved by faith in Jesus, then good works naturally follow. All scripture has to be taken in context with other scripture. The problem the cults have is they use one scripture that agrees with their doctrine to attempt to cancel out another scripture that doesn't line up with their doctrine. That's not scholarly.

This is very good explanation of the difference between Old Testament and New Testament prophets.

Prophets: New Testament vs Old Testament | Fountain of Life

To protect yourself from abuse, it's important to understand the office of the New Testament prophet and how this gift DIFFERS from the Old Testament prophet.

www.fountainoflifetm.com

Another problem I have is with polygamy. According to your Covenants book polygamy is an everlasting Covenant. Yet, now it isn't practiced. This is interesting.

Is the "new and everlasting covenant" polygamy or a temple marriage?

 

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How is it a "moral argument" to simply point out that you haven't presented any proof yet for the personal deity of the bible existing or creating this universe?

You're just claiming that everything we don't know about the cause of the universe is "GOD". In ancient times people thought like you, saying that lightning was caused by God and that earthquakes were caused by God, and practically everything that we didn't have a natural explanation for, was caused by GOD. Then we developed the scientific method, and science began to answer all of those questions, without resorting to the lazy cop-out answer of blurting out "God", as an answer. The cause of the universe might very well also have a very natural explanation and to pretend otherwise is just stupid if not dishonest. Perhaps the cause of the universe isn't "God". Have you ever considered that possibility? You should.

That’s not what I have claimed at all. Try again.