Zone1 Would it Have Been Acceptable For Mary to Abort Jesus?

[Cougarbear]

Um, no, guy, there is separation of Church and State, for which you should be happy, given that the Evangelicals think you Mormons are all heretical cultists.

Without secularism and separation of Church and State, America becomes Protestants and Catholics arguing over whether or not Jesus is made out of Stale Wafers.

Tell us where in the Constitution it states “separation of church and state?” Come on. All it says is the government will not establish its own religion. And that every voter and government official elected or un-elected is free to exercise and express their religious beliefs.

And, the last I looked, Protestants don’t recognize Catholic authority and vice versa. Also, LDS use water and not wine in the sacraments. We also often bake bread for the sacraments. Both are rejected by Protestants. We all have our religious expressions. Secular atheists would actually like to stop Christians from partaking of their sacraments.

 

[JoeB131]

Tell us where in the Constitution it states “separation of church and state?” Come on. All it says is the government will not establish its own religion.

That's separation of Church and state, dummy.

 

[Cougarbear]

Nice try! No cigar! That’s not what you atheists want. You want it like Mao’s China or Stalin’s Russia. You don’t want those who believe in God to be able to hold a government office or job. That’s your idea of separation of church and state. But that’s not what the Constitution says.

 

[JoeB131]

Nice try! No cigar! That’s not what you atheists want. You want it like Mao’s China or Stalin’s Russia. You don’t want those who believe in God to be able to hold a government office or job. That’s your idea of separation of church and state. But that’s not what the Constitution says.

The world will be better off when we outgrow our need for sky pixies.

That said, the Founders (despite being truly flawed human beings) saw the danger of mixing church and state, by virtue of the fact that many American Colonies were formed by people fleeing England because the new Monarch changed the religion again.

 

[Meriweather]

The world will be better off when we outgrow our need for sky pixies.

Interesting you (and some other atheists) are the only ones who see sky pixies. The rest of us outgrew them a few thousand millennia ago. When do you suppose you will let them go?

 

[JoeB131]

Interesting you (and some other atheists) are the only ones who see sky pixies. The rest of us outgrew them a few thousand millennia ago. When do you suppose you will let them go?

Naw, you just stopped calling them "gods" and started calling them "Saints".

 

[Meriweather]

Naw, you just stopped calling them "gods" and started calling them "Saints".

Again, you're looking at the mirror and what you are doing. Perhaps try maturity one of these days and then join the conversation.

 

[Cougarbear]

The world will be better off when we outgrow our need for sky pixies.

That said, the Founders (despite being truly flawed human beings) saw the danger of mixing church and state, by virtue of the fact that many American Colonies were formed by people fleeing England because the new Monarch changed the religion again.

The world will be better off if all come to the knowledge of the Glory of the Godhead. And, your understanding of the Founding Fathers is way off. They were inspired of God to write the Bill of Rights so that the Lord’s Church could again be restored and it has been. To do this, the government had to mostly stay out of churches (religion) unless there is real danger of life and property. This because the Constitution isn’t just one bill of rights. With that said, there is no evidence that religious people cannot be part of the government and make decisions based on their conscience which includes their religious belief. You want the religion of secularism which has no sure foundation. You want to destroy belief in God like Mao, Stalin and Hitler did. Your communist belief killed 100 million people in a short period of time last century. No, your atheism is truly what we don’t need.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I've actually been wondering this myself a lot lately. If there are any Christians that are okay with abortion on here, what do you say about that? Or would it have been alright with you had Elizabeth decided to abort John the Baptist? If abortion existed back then that is.

Of course it’s acceptable to abort a pregnancy resulting from the rape of a child.

 

[JoeB131]

The world will be better off if all come to the knowledge of the Glory of the Godhead. And, your understanding of the Founding Fathers is way off. They were inspired of God to write the Bill of Rights so that the Lord’s Church could again be restored and it has been.

Really?

Actually. a lot of the Founders were Deists who rejected much of the Bible as primitive superstitions.

 

[Cougarbear]

Really?

Actually. a lot of the Founders were Deists who rejected much of the Bible as primitive superstitions.

A lot were not Deists. A lot were believers in Jesus Christ. But, that matters not. They were inspired of God to protect our religious rights because the government they built should not control anyone's conscience to choose right or wrong, good or evil, virtue or vice... Now, when someone breaks a law of the land, they should be punished according to the law of the land. That is decided by men and women. And, most are religious. So, why would you expect anything else but biblical laws and judgments? They are writing laws based on their conscience. When they do not have a conscience, then you get laws that hurt people like trans laws that violate decency and cause mental and physical harm to children. Or, the killing of innocent unborn babies. It's Mao and Stalin style of governing. Brutal communism.

 

[JoeB131]

A lot were not Deists. A lot were believers in Jesus Christ. But, that matters not. They were inspired of God to protect our religious rights because the government they built should not control anyone's conscience to choose right or wrong, good or evil, virtue or vice...

Oh, bullshit. The main reason why they wanted the Separation of Church and State was because they looked at the 200 years since Henry VIII said, "You know, I need me a hotter, younger wife!"

Now, when someone breaks a law of the land, they should be punished according to the law of the land. That is decided by men and women. And, most are religious. So, why would you expect anything else but biblical laws and judgments?

I wouldn't want to live in a country that used the Bible as a source of "laws and judgements". Something about being stoned to death for working on a Sunday would crimp my style.

When they do not have a conscience, then you get laws that hurt people like trans laws that violate decency and cause mental and physical harm to children.

That's your opinion, not the opinion of medical science, which sees value in Gender Affirming Care.

Or, the killing of innocent unborn babies.

Fetuses aren't babies.

We don't count fetuses in the Census.
We don't let people count their fetus as a tax dependent.

It's Mao and Stalin style of governing. Brutal communism.

No, it's pragmatism. Politics is the art of compromise. You can't compromise with a fanatic who thinks he's doing "God's Will".

This is why England had 250 years of Catholics and Protestants murdering each other, because they were doing "God's Will".

 

[Cougarbear]

Oh, bullshit. The main reason why they wanted the Separation of Church and State was because they looked at the 200 years since Henry VIII said, "You know, I need me a hotter, younger wife!"



I wouldn't want to live in a country that used the Bible as a source of "laws and judgements". Something about being stoned to death for working on a Sunday would crimp my style.




That's your opinion, not the opinion of medical science, which sees value in Gender Affirming Care.


Fetuses aren't babies.

We don't count fetuses in the Census.
We don't let people count their fetus as a tax dependent.




No, it's pragmatism. Politics is the art of compromise. You can't compromise with a fanatic who thinks he's doing "God's Will".

This is why England had 250 years of Catholics and Protestants murdering each other, because they were doing "God's Will".

Based on your answers, you see why we need the first amendment. To protect those who have beliefs in God from those who don't and act stupidly. No, there are no scientific studies saying gender affirming care has value. In fact, it's now the consensus of science that it destroys children for later on in life. Not only children but adults too. It's stupid to try and fix a mental issue with a physical one. That's barbaric.
Fetuses are babies. They are alive. Bye definition they are alive. And, perhaps we should start counting fetuses in the census and allow them to claim tax dependents on unborn children. If you kill an unborn child you can be jailed. They are alive.

 

[JoeB131]

No, there are no scientific studies saying gender affirming care has value. In fact, it's now the consensus of science that it destroys children for later on in life.

Um, no, guy, there are a lot of studies that show the opposite.

Gender-affirming Care Saves Lives

Growing legislative attempts to limit, ban, or criminalize access to this critical model of medical care endangers the health and well-being of transgender and nonbinary youth.

www.columbiapsychiatry.org

The benefits of gender-affirming care

Together, we can make health care inclusive for trans youth

sph.washington.edu

https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(24)00439-7/fulltext

Based on your answers, you see why we need the first amendment. To protect those who have beliefs in God from those who don't and act stupidly.

Naw, the First Amendment is to protect you God-Botherers from each other. It wasn't atheists who chased the Mormons out of four states in the 19th Century and shot Joseph Smith, it was other Christians.

Fetuses are babies. They are alive. Bye definition they are alive. And, perhaps we should start counting fetuses in the census and allow them to claim tax dependents on unborn children. If you kill an unborn child you can be jailed. They are alive.

Except, no, by definition, they aren't alive, because when separated from the woman before viability, they die.

Even when abortion was illegal, women were never jailed for having them, and abortion providers were never charged with murder. This was (and still is) about controlling women. The kind of guys who want to ban abortion are the kind of guys who watch Trad-wife videos.

 

[Cougarbear]

Um, no, guy, there are a lot of studies that show the opposite.

Gender-affirming Care Saves Lives

Growing legislative attempts to limit, ban, or criminalize access to this critical model of medical care endangers the health and well-being of transgender and nonbinary youth.

www.columbiapsychiatry.org

The benefits of gender-affirming care

Together, we can make health care inclusive for trans youth

sph.washington.edu

https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(24)00439-7/fulltext

Naw, the First Amendment is to protect you God-Botherers from each other. It wasn't atheists who chased the Mormons out of four states in the 19th Century and shot Joseph Smith, it was other Christians.



Except, no, by definition, they aren't alive, because when separated from the woman before viability, they die.

Even when abortion was illegal, women were never jailed for having them, and abortion providers were never charged with murder. This was (and still is) about controlling women. The kind of guys who want to ban abortion are the kind of guys who watch Trad-wife videos.

You are clueless. Glad we have Trump! A few
Years of sanity. Read the first amendment! It’s all about restricting the government! In fact, all 10 bill of rights are about protecting citizens against our government. LOL! Democrats should not be allowed to hold office if they don’t understand that one thing.
Try murdering a pregnant woman and you may find yourself being charged with two murders.
No, you are pulling out tainted old studies. Even other countries that are
Liberal are stopping the practice.

 

[ding]

Except, no, by definition, they aren't alive, because when separated from the woman before viability, they die.

I'm pretty sure that's not how living things are defined. And in fact your very post acknowledges they are alive because if they weren't alive they couldn't die.

 

[JoeB131]

You are clueless. Glad we have Trump! A few
Years of sanity. Read the first amendment! It’s all about restricting the government!

I have. It clearly separates Church and State.

Democrats should not be allowed to hold office if they don’t understand that one thing.

Republicans should not be allowed to hold office if they try to impose anything religious on us.

Try murdering a pregnant woman and you may find yourself being charged with two murders.

Yes, they have been abused to prosecute women who have had miscarriages.

No, you are pulling out tainted old studies.

those studies are from 2022 and 2023.

 

[Cougarbear]

I have. It clearly separates Church and State.



Republicans should not be allowed to hold office if they try to impose anything religious on us.


Yes, they have been abused to prosecute women who have had miscarriages.



those studies are from 2022 and 2023.

Those are old. We are going into 2026. Check all the new studies. Gender affirming care is barbaric!
Please share with us the words “separation of church and state” anywhere in the constitution. Go ahead. The bill of rights are to stop only the government from fringing on the rights of the people. The people can have all the affect on the government we want to. It’s not both ways.

 

[JoeB131]

Those are old. We are going into 2026. Check all the new studies. Gender affirming care is barbaric!
Please share with us the words “separation of church and state” anywhere in the constitution. Go ahead. The bill of rights are to stop only the government from fringing on the rights of the people. The people can have all the affect on the government we want to. It’s not both ways.

Guy, Thomas Jefferson said "Separation of Church and State".

No, 2023 is pretty recent. There haven't been any CREDIBLE studies saying otherwise.

 

[Cougarbear]

Guy, Thomas Jefferson said "Separation of Church and State".

No, 2023 is pretty recent. There haven't been any CREDIBLE studies saying otherwise.

Meaning the government cannot dictate your religious expression whether spoken or with your vote. It doesn't go the other way. The people can use whatever morals and ethics they come from to make laws and enforce them.

A New Study Exposes Flaws In the Dutch Research on Pediatric Gender Medicine - Do No Harm

SEGM recently announced the publication of a new study titled The Myth of Reliable Research in Pediatric Gender Medicine.

donoharmmedicine.org

Rotten at the Root

Trans activists’ claims don’t survive scientific scrutiny.

www.city-journal.org

Trans surgeries increase risk of mental health conditions, suicidal ideations: study

Gender dysphoria patients experienced ‘heightened psychological distress’ two years after surgery

www.foxnews.com

Misrepresentations of evidence in “gender-affirming care is preventative care” - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I came across this study which was published several days ago in the Journal of Sexual Medicine: https://academic.oup.com/jsm/advance-article/doi/10.1093/jsxmed/qdaf026/8042063?login=true

In the study, they matched cohorts from people with gender dysphoria with no history of mental health struggles (outside of gender dysphoria) between those that underwent gender-affirming surgery and those who didn't. They basically seperated them into three groups: Males with documented history of gender dysphoria (Yes/No surgery), Females with documented history of gender dysphoria (yes/no surgery), and those without documented gender dysphoria (trans men vs trans women).

Out of these groups, the group that underwent gender-affirming surgery were found to have higher rates of depression (more than double for trans women, almost double for trans men), higher anxiety (for trans women it was 5 times, for trans men only about 50% higher), and suicidality (for trans women about 50%, and trans men more than doubled). Both groups showed the same levels of body dysmorphia.