Without education, what kind of jobs will be available to young Americans?

[Texanmike]

Creationism isn't science, if they bring it up during philosophy or something then that makes sense. But to bring it up during a science lecture is inviting idiocy.

You're saying science should NEVER be challenged during a science lecture or discussion?

Both sides can't be presented, for the students to learn from, and make up their own minds?

Interesting.

Ya' see, that's exactly why the students in their school are so far above their peers. they can hear all sides of an issue, and make informed judgements. And that is one of the main problems with public school educated students these days. They are taught that things are one way, and one way only.

Science should be challenged by science. Not superstition.

LOL. That's funny.

"My ideology is subject to scrutiny... so long as I accept it".

Wow. And you call me a monster? You are the example of what I tell my son not to be. Or at least the way you are presenting yourself here is exactly what I tell him not to be.

Mike

 

[Photonic]

As I suspected. You have no desire for intellectual discussion. That or you realized you are defeated. Those are the only reason why someone says something like "Shows how well you know me" and ends the discussion there.

As for my blindfolded world. That is rich. You have no idea what a blindfolded world is or how it relates to my world.

Mike

Just because the ignorance of your position allows you to claim a win doesn't mean you've won anything.
You have responded with nothing meaningful yet and come out with the "Your conceding because I said you did."

I'll try again, not that you are willing to listen.

You are not creating a leader, you are creating a follower. Show me evidence to the contrary that your method is better or I'm just going to move on. I've given you mine.

Also, you know absolutely nothing about who I am and what I've done. I suggest you back off your position of singling me out as someone who does nothing for society. You have no idea.

Funny. You don't like being called a monster either? I figured you critiquing me meant you liked it.

That's funny. That I'm not creating a leader. That's not what my child's teachers would tell you. Nor is it what his friends or daycare would tell you. In fact, they would ALL tell you that my son is a leader.

And I'm familiar with the studies. I'm familiar with the positions. Look, I get it. You don't believe it is possible to force a child to do things and encourage him to explore. Funny, is that what they tought you in the military? I doubt that. I doubt that very seriously. I force him to do the things he doesn't like doing and allow him to do the things he does like. I give him leadership opportunities all of the time but he is a child. He is supposed to follow, or did you forget that sometimes following leads to leadership?

Great men are not born, they are not educated and they are not "raised". They are forged. My son is just that. He has come home, hands up in the air throwing up papers in frustration when it was time to memorize a speech for class. He has told me "I can't do this". We've stayed up till 11:00 (he normally goes to bed by 8:00, unless he has practice) memorizing speeches and doing things like learning a new move in soccer. "I can't, or I don't want to" are forbidden in my house. Failure is only a learning opportunity. You won't find my method in a text book or in a study, I'm sure. My evidence? Why don't you look at the Chinese or Koreans? Notice how they are kicking our ass in scholatics? Notice how they are creating leaders? My view on parenting is not that of a wesern philosophy. At least not any more. I've told my son that his decisions are stupid. I've told him he needed to be embarassed, that he has disgraced himself. I believe that my son is strong enough to handle them. I do not believe that I am raising a flower or some delicate being that is not capable of dealing with failure. The consequences of failure in my house are substantial. The results of success are equally extreme. He has confidence that doesn't come from me, it doesn't come from his teachers or his friends. At 8 years old, he has confidence because he has succeeded. He has failed at endeavors. He has succeeded when he did not believe he could. "Trying your hardest" is not rewarded because the real world does not reward effort, it rewrds results. The bar is high in my house. A "B" is not cause for celebration in my house, it is cause for more studying.

Of course I'm a monster. Of course I am. My son will succeed where others fail. Encourage creativity, celebrate success and reward failure with another opportunity to succeed. We've forgotten that because we have changed the definition of success. We no longer view success as the end result, we view success as the ammount of effort. I reject that notion and I reject your ideology. You are free to reject mine. Maybe I am failing my son. I suppose that is a possibility. I doubt it though.

Mike

You've taken the time and admitted that you may be right or wrong. More importantly you've said that you don't know. Too many people run on the assumption that they can't be wrong because it's their child. My goal was to make you think about that.

I'll tell you a little bit about me if you would care to listen.

I wasn't a normal child. The education system failed me because of that. I excelled so much at what I did and the school didn't know how to handle it, so I was relegated to remedial classes. I ran circles around teachers and the tests they gave me and they said I had a learning disability.

I taught myself 3 languages by the age of 9 (After being told by the education system that I was not capable of learning a new language), my interest in space led me to the study of physics at the old age of 12. I was so bored in my classes that I did badly due to non-motivation. No teacher attempted to foster my abilities except 2 or 3 who understood what they were dealing with.

Before I was out of high school I had submitted an experiment to the patent process and by the time I was 19 I had worked with JPL in Pasadena in research on my idea, collaborated with NASA and my community college engineering professor had toted me down to UC Long Beach to oversee a research experiment in the engineering Dept. I'm no fool. I see flaws in society everywhere and I can't help but feel separated from it all because it's wildly outside of what they consider ideal. Or maybe I'm wildly outside what they consider ideal. Maybe I'm biased because of it, I probably am.

What I DO know is that many people I have talked too wish they had been able to get the education that was tailored more towards them personally. I commend you for taking your childs education in your own hands because you care, though I disagree with your method, you will still produce a person who is far more capable than your average publicly educated person. I called you a monster because the way you phrased it you forced your child to learn things in the same way the public education system forces them, which is monstrous to me.

You said you were basically training your child to be an employee in a previous post. That is exactly all the public education system teaches kids to be. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

[NoNukes]

This sounds like they make it up, like they do in Texas. Do they teach Creationism?

How does "They teach them history as it actually happened" sound like "They make it up"?

Are you really that stupid?

Typical liberal.......They see anything as a threat to their loony idoctrination desires, and you get stupid shit like what he posted.

So, that means that I am right and you have no reply. Typical right winger, cannot answer back, so you insult.

 

[NoNukes]

They teach them the basics. They prepare them for the next step, which is prep. It's academically oriented. They don't shove politics or religion down their throats. They teach them history as it actually happened, not the loony liberal revisionist crap being taught in public schools.....They have a high standard set for the students. If the student isn't giving 100%, they won't be there long.....The teachers are also held to a high standard. They don't perform, they don't show overall success by their students achievements, they are gone, period.

This sounds like they make it up, like they do in Texas. Do they teach Creationism?

How does "They teach them history as it actually happened" sound like "They make it up"?

Are you really that stupid?

No, but it sounds like you are. Their version of History as it actually happened does not necessarily mean that is how it happened. My version of how it actually happened might not be accurate. Who knows how it 'really happened' other than those who witnessed it?

 

[daveman]

I think the strip clubs and adult industry will still have plenty of work available.

 

[daveman]

This sounds like they make it up, like they do in Texas. Do they teach Creationism?

How does "They teach them history as it actually happened" sound like "They make it up"?

Are you really that stupid?

No, but it sounds like you are.

I'm sure it comforts you to feel that way, but no.

Their version of History as it actually happened does not necessarily mean that is how it happened. My version of how it actually happened might not be accurate. Who knows how it 'really happened' other than those who witnessed it?[/B]

Depends on how far back you go, doesn't it?

 

[Wicked Jester]

How does "They teach them history as it actually happened" sound like "They make it up"?

Are you really that stupid?

Typical liberal.......They see anything as a threat to their loony idoctrination desires, and you get stupid shit like what he posted.

So, that means that I am right and you have no reply. Typical right winger, cannot answer back, so you insult.

I did answer you in #345, fool......Go back and read it.

That doesn't make your question any less stupid.

 

[Texanmike]

Just because the ignorance of your position allows you to claim a win doesn't mean you've won anything.
You have responded with nothing meaningful yet and come out with the "Your conceding because I said you did."

I'll try again, not that you are willing to listen.

You are not creating a leader, you are creating a follower. Show me evidence to the contrary that your method is better or I'm just going to move on. I've given you mine.

Also, you know absolutely nothing about who I am and what I've done. I suggest you back off your position of singling me out as someone who does nothing for society. You have no idea.

Funny. You don't like being called a monster either? I figured you critiquing me meant you liked it.

That's funny. That I'm not creating a leader. That's not what my child's teachers would tell you. Nor is it what his friends or daycare would tell you. In fact, they would ALL tell you that my son is a leader.

And I'm familiar with the studies. I'm familiar with the positions. Look, I get it. You don't believe it is possible to force a child to do things and encourage him to explore. Funny, is that what they tought you in the military? I doubt that. I doubt that very seriously. I force him to do the things he doesn't like doing and allow him to do the things he does like. I give him leadership opportunities all of the time but he is a child. He is supposed to follow, or did you forget that sometimes following leads to leadership?

Great men are not born, they are not educated and they are not "raised". They are forged. My son is just that. He has come home, hands up in the air throwing up papers in frustration when it was time to memorize a speech for class. He has told me "I can't do this". We've stayed up till 11:00 (he normally goes to bed by 8:00, unless he has practice) memorizing speeches and doing things like learning a new move in soccer. "I can't, or I don't want to" are forbidden in my house. Failure is only a learning opportunity. You won't find my method in a text book or in a study, I'm sure. My evidence? Why don't you look at the Chinese or Koreans? Notice how they are kicking our ass in scholatics? Notice how they are creating leaders? My view on parenting is not that of a wesern philosophy. At least not any more. I've told my son that his decisions are stupid. I've told him he needed to be embarassed, that he has disgraced himself. I believe that my son is strong enough to handle them. I do not believe that I am raising a flower or some delicate being that is not capable of dealing with failure. The consequences of failure in my house are substantial. The results of success are equally extreme. He has confidence that doesn't come from me, it doesn't come from his teachers or his friends. At 8 years old, he has confidence because he has succeeded. He has failed at endeavors. He has succeeded when he did not believe he could. "Trying your hardest" is not rewarded because the real world does not reward effort, it rewrds results. The bar is high in my house. A "B" is not cause for celebration in my house, it is cause for more studying.

Of course I'm a monster. Of course I am. My son will succeed where others fail. Encourage creativity, celebrate success and reward failure with another opportunity to succeed. We've forgotten that because we have changed the definition of success. We no longer view success as the end result, we view success as the ammount of effort. I reject that notion and I reject your ideology. You are free to reject mine. Maybe I am failing my son. I suppose that is a possibility. I doubt it though.

Mike

You've taken the time and admitted that you may be right or wrong. More importantly you've said that you don't know. Too many people run on the assumption that they can't be wrong because it's their child. My goal was to make you think about that.

I'll tell you a little bit about me if you would care to listen.

I wasn't a normal child. The education system failed me because of that. I excelled so much at what I did and the school didn't know how to handle it, so I was relegated to remedial classes. I ran circles around teachers and the tests they gave me and they said I had a learning disability.

I taught myself 3 languages by the age of 9 (After being told by the education system that I was not capable of learning a new language), my interest in space led me to the study of physics at the old age of 12. I was so bored in my classes that I did badly due to non-motivation. No teacher attempted to foster my abilities except 2 or 3 who understood what they were dealing with.

Before I was out of high school I had submitted an experiment to the patent process and by the time I was 19 I had worked with JPL in Pasadena in research on my idea, collaborated with NASA and my community college engineering professor had toted me down to UC Long Beach to oversee a research experiment in the engineering Dept. I'm no fool. I see flaws in society everywhere and I can't help but feel separated from it all because it's wildly outside of what they consider ideal. Or maybe I'm wildly outside what they consider ideal. Maybe I'm biased because of it, I probably am.

What I DO know is that many people I have talked too wish they had been able to get the education that was tailored more towards them personally. I commend you for taking your childs education in your own hands because you care, though I disagree with your method, you will still produce a person who is far more capable than your average publicly educated person. I called you a monster because the way you phrased it you forced your child to learn things in the same way the public education system forces them, which is monstrous to me.

You said you were basically training your child to be an employee in a previous post. That is exactly all the public education system teaches kids to be. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Instead of employee I should have said employable.

I don't force him to learn in any way that is close to the public school system. They don't force anything and that is the problem.

Either way, thank you for reading and responding to my post. I can relate to a lot of what you say because I had a similar experience. I speak 4 languages, including Korean which is unlike anything we are exposed to in the western world, fluently. I was bored in class and became lazy because I could just "get it". I made average to below average grades because we counted home work. I almost never made an "A" in a class but never made below a "B" in my entire schollastic test taking experience. I just never handed in home work. I think my parents were afraid that I would break if they were as hard on me as I am my son. I started early and I started with a plan. I lived in Asia growing up and I saw things that they did to their children that we consider horrible but I saw myself secretly wishing that someone would push me the way they were pushed.

My dad was an executive for an oil company, he holds 7 patents to his name. My mom was extremely successful, by a different measure. She got what she wanted out of life, fighting and once defeating breast cancer and influencing enough people that she had funerals held on four different continents. She also met with presidents of south east asian countries and was the only foreigner ever appointed to an official position in the government of a large muslim country. I have seen success and failure both growing up and in my own life and to be honest, thus far mine is a dissapointment. My style of parenting is taking a child of equal (potentially more) intelligence and interests as myself and giving him what I believe my family was counseled out of giving me. Rightly or wrongly it is the only way to parent.

Mike

 

[Photonic]

Funny. You don't like being called a monster either? I figured you critiquing me meant you liked it.

That's funny. That I'm not creating a leader. That's not what my child's teachers would tell you. Nor is it what his friends or daycare would tell you. In fact, they would ALL tell you that my son is a leader.

And I'm familiar with the studies. I'm familiar with the positions. Look, I get it. You don't believe it is possible to force a child to do things and encourage him to explore. Funny, is that what they tought you in the military? I doubt that. I doubt that very seriously. I force him to do the things he doesn't like doing and allow him to do the things he does like. I give him leadership opportunities all of the time but he is a child. He is supposed to follow, or did you forget that sometimes following leads to leadership?

Great men are not born, they are not educated and they are not "raised". They are forged. My son is just that. He has come home, hands up in the air throwing up papers in frustration when it was time to memorize a speech for class. He has told me "I can't do this". We've stayed up till 11:00 (he normally goes to bed by 8:00, unless he has practice) memorizing speeches and doing things like learning a new move in soccer. "I can't, or I don't want to" are forbidden in my house. Failure is only a learning opportunity. You won't find my method in a text book or in a study, I'm sure. My evidence? Why don't you look at the Chinese or Koreans? Notice how they are kicking our ass in scholatics? Notice how they are creating leaders? My view on parenting is not that of a wesern philosophy. At least not any more. I've told my son that his decisions are stupid. I've told him he needed to be embarassed, that he has disgraced himself. I believe that my son is strong enough to handle them. I do not believe that I am raising a flower or some delicate being that is not capable of dealing with failure. The consequences of failure in my house are substantial. The results of success are equally extreme. He has confidence that doesn't come from me, it doesn't come from his teachers or his friends. At 8 years old, he has confidence because he has succeeded. He has failed at endeavors. He has succeeded when he did not believe he could. "Trying your hardest" is not rewarded because the real world does not reward effort, it rewrds results. The bar is high in my house. A "B" is not cause for celebration in my house, it is cause for more studying.

Of course I'm a monster. Of course I am. My son will succeed where others fail. Encourage creativity, celebrate success and reward failure with another opportunity to succeed. We've forgotten that because we have changed the definition of success. We no longer view success as the end result, we view success as the ammount of effort. I reject that notion and I reject your ideology. You are free to reject mine. Maybe I am failing my son. I suppose that is a possibility. I doubt it though.

Mike

You've taken the time and admitted that you may be right or wrong. More importantly you've said that you don't know. Too many people run on the assumption that they can't be wrong because it's their child. My goal was to make you think about that.

I'll tell you a little bit about me if you would care to listen.

I wasn't a normal child. The education system failed me because of that. I excelled so much at what I did and the school didn't know how to handle it, so I was relegated to remedial classes. I ran circles around teachers and the tests they gave me and they said I had a learning disability.

I taught myself 3 languages by the age of 9 (After being told by the education system that I was not capable of learning a new language), my interest in space led me to the study of physics at the old age of 12. I was so bored in my classes that I did badly due to non-motivation. No teacher attempted to foster my abilities except 2 or 3 who understood what they were dealing with.

Before I was out of high school I had submitted an experiment to the patent process and by the time I was 19 I had worked with JPL in Pasadena in research on my idea, collaborated with NASA and my community college engineering professor had toted me down to UC Long Beach to oversee a research experiment in the engineering Dept. I'm no fool. I see flaws in society everywhere and I can't help but feel separated from it all because it's wildly outside of what they consider ideal. Or maybe I'm wildly outside what they consider ideal. Maybe I'm biased because of it, I probably am.

What I DO know is that many people I have talked too wish they had been able to get the education that was tailored more towards them personally. I commend you for taking your childs education in your own hands because you care, though I disagree with your method, you will still produce a person who is far more capable than your average publicly educated person. I called you a monster because the way you phrased it you forced your child to learn things in the same way the public education system forces them, which is monstrous to me.

You said you were basically training your child to be an employee in a previous post. That is exactly all the public education system teaches kids to be. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Instead of employee I should have said employable.

I don't force him to learn in any way that is close to the public school system. They don't force anything and that is the problem.

Either way, thank you for reading and responding to my post. I can relate to a lot of what you say because I had a similar experience. I speak 4 languages, including Korean which is unlike anything we are exposed to in the western world, fluently. I was bored in class and became lazy because I could just "get it". I made average to below average grades because we counted home work. I almost never made an "A" in a class but never made below a "B" in my entire schollastic test taking experience. I just never handed in home work. I think my parents were afraid that I would break if they were as hard on me as I am my son. I started early and I started with a plan. I lived in Asia growing up and I saw things that they did to their children that we consider horrible but I saw myself secretly wishing that someone would push me the way they were pushed.

My dad was an executive for an oil company, he holds 7 patents to his name. My mom was extremely successful, by a different measure. She got what she wanted out of life, fighting and once defeating breast cancer and influencing enough people that she had funerals held on four different continents. She also met with presidents of south east asian countries and was the only foreigner ever appointed to an official position in the government of a large muslim country. I have seen success and failure both growing up and in my own life and to be honest, thus far mine is a dissapointment. My style of parenting is taking a child of equal (potentially more) intelligence and interests as myself and giving him what I believe my family was counseled out of giving me. Rightly or wrongly it is the only way to parent.

Mike

More relatable than you would expect. My grandfather was a board member for Exon after working for them for 32 years. Retired a year and a half ago.

 

[Texanmike]

You've taken the time and admitted that you may be right or wrong. More importantly you've said that you don't know. Too many people run on the assumption that they can't be wrong because it's their child. My goal was to make you think about that.

I'll tell you a little bit about me if you would care to listen.

I wasn't a normal child. The education system failed me because of that. I excelled so much at what I did and the school didn't know how to handle it, so I was relegated to remedial classes. I ran circles around teachers and the tests they gave me and they said I had a learning disability.

I taught myself 3 languages by the age of 9 (After being told by the education system that I was not capable of learning a new language), my interest in space led me to the study of physics at the old age of 12. I was so bored in my classes that I did badly due to non-motivation. No teacher attempted to foster my abilities except 2 or 3 who understood what they were dealing with.

Before I was out of high school I had submitted an experiment to the patent process and by the time I was 19 I had worked with JPL in Pasadena in research on my idea, collaborated with NASA and my community college engineering professor had toted me down to UC Long Beach to oversee a research experiment in the engineering Dept. I'm no fool. I see flaws in society everywhere and I can't help but feel separated from it all because it's wildly outside of what they consider ideal. Or maybe I'm wildly outside what they consider ideal. Maybe I'm biased because of it, I probably am.

What I DO know is that many people I have talked too wish they had been able to get the education that was tailored more towards them personally. I commend you for taking your childs education in your own hands because you care, though I disagree with your method, you will still produce a person who is far more capable than your average publicly educated person. I called you a monster because the way you phrased it you forced your child to learn things in the same way the public education system forces them, which is monstrous to me.

You said you were basically training your child to be an employee in a previous post. That is exactly all the public education system teaches kids to be. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Instead of employee I should have said employable.

I don't force him to learn in any way that is close to the public school system. They don't force anything and that is the problem.

Either way, thank you for reading and responding to my post. I can relate to a lot of what you say because I had a similar experience. I speak 4 languages, including Korean which is unlike anything we are exposed to in the western world, fluently. I was bored in class and became lazy because I could just "get it". I made average to below average grades because we counted home work. I almost never made an "A" in a class but never made below a "B" in my entire schollastic test taking experience. I just never handed in home work. I think my parents were afraid that I would break if they were as hard on me as I am my son. I started early and I started with a plan. I lived in Asia growing up and I saw things that they did to their children that we consider horrible but I saw myself secretly wishing that someone would push me the way they were pushed.

My dad was an executive for an oil company, he holds 7 patents to his name. My mom was extremely successful, by a different measure. She got what she wanted out of life, fighting and once defeating breast cancer and influencing enough people that she had funerals held on four different continents. She also met with presidents of south east asian countries and was the only foreigner ever appointed to an official position in the government of a large muslim country. I have seen success and failure both growing up and in my own life and to be honest, thus far mine is a dissapointment. My style of parenting is taking a child of equal (potentially more) intelligence and interests as myself and giving him what I believe my family was counseled out of giving me. Rightly or wrongly it is the only way to parent.

Mike

More relatable than you would expect. My grandfather was a board member for Exon after working for them for 32 years. Retired a year and a half ago.

And such vastly different outlooks on life. Strange. Are you in the AF? Just curious.

Mike

 

[Photonic]

Instead of employee I should have said employable.

I don't force him to learn in any way that is close to the public school system. They don't force anything and that is the problem.

Either way, thank you for reading and responding to my post. I can relate to a lot of what you say because I had a similar experience. I speak 4 languages, including Korean which is unlike anything we are exposed to in the western world, fluently. I was bored in class and became lazy because I could just "get it". I made average to below average grades because we counted home work. I almost never made an "A" in a class but never made below a "B" in my entire schollastic test taking experience. I just never handed in home work. I think my parents were afraid that I would break if they were as hard on me as I am my son. I started early and I started with a plan. I lived in Asia growing up and I saw things that they did to their children that we consider horrible but I saw myself secretly wishing that someone would push me the way they were pushed.

My dad was an executive for an oil company, he holds 7 patents to his name. My mom was extremely successful, by a different measure. She got what she wanted out of life, fighting and once defeating breast cancer and influencing enough people that she had funerals held on four different continents. She also met with presidents of south east asian countries and was the only foreigner ever appointed to an official position in the government of a large muslim country. I have seen success and failure both growing up and in my own life and to be honest, thus far mine is a dissapointment. My style of parenting is taking a child of equal (potentially more) intelligence and interests as myself and giving him what I believe my family was counseled out of giving me. Rightly or wrongly it is the only way to parent.

Mike

More relatable than you would expect. My grandfather was a board member for Exon after working for them for 32 years. Retired a year and a half ago.

And such vastly different outlooks on life. Strange. Are you in the AF? Just curious.

Mike

I'm an Air Force cadet class 4 but I'm working on my enlistment process because it will be more beneficial to simply enlist and become an officer that way.

 

[Baron]

Without an education, what kind of jobs will be available?

Sellers of cheap Chinese commodities.

 

[FA_Q2]

Are you blind to the war on teachers, textbooks, science, evolution...etc...?

Are you deaf to the call for proof or even an example. The ones you attempted to give were already torn to pieces. Since you cannot show anything you default to assuming you are right and it is so obvious. Try actually showing this 'war.'

You were asleep during the war on the teaching profession in Wisconsin? The absurd textbook revisionism in Texas? The endless war on the validity of the theory of Evolution?

Where have you been?

You meant he attack on the corrupt and decadent teachers union in Wisconsin? Yes, I know that to address the corruption and adjunct failure of the teachers unions and failing teachers in this nation is taken as an attack on education by our left wing extremists but it is not. Again, this is not an example of attacking education. As a matter of fact, it is the first step in addressing the problem in the first place. One of those areas that is such a problem is due to the fact that unions have made it impossible to hold a teacher accountable for their performance. Take your partisan glasses off. Addressing the budget shortfalls and problems with public sector unions are NOT attacking religion.

Get rid of the department of education and put it back in the hands of the state, like it was meant to be. That's a start.

Only if you believe education is not a vital national interest should it be left up to the states.

Wrong again, the states could and DID do a better job at educating our children then big brother. Look at the history of this country, up until the DOE was created this country boomed, only after it was created did we see a steep decline in quality students and people with common sense.
A video for anyone who cares to watch it.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzXyM5tKok4]Adam Schaeffer on scrapping the Dept. of Education - YouTube[/ame]

That was a terrible video though. Linking pay to test scores is rather meaningless unless the tests themselves have not changed. The Dept. of Education is a failure because children are not learning anymore and we are not preparing them for the jobs and future that is out there but that was relating it to something that is not a solid baseline.

I understand you cannot defeat my rebuttal, it's okay. I am right, you are wrong. Also, it wasn't copy paste, it was all me.

No, you are actually repeating the same cyclical argument repeated by every person on Earth who is uneducated on the topic of Evolution.

Your rebuttal doesn't even need to be defeated, it's self defeating. I can sit here and watch it go poof.

There it just did. Care to make up another uneducated point on a subject you so obviously know nothing about?

If it can't be proven either way, is it really an uneducated point? And unless you know for a fact either way, how do you figure to be the resident expert on such matters?

It is not a matter of proven. There is evidence and a valid theory on one side and no valid theory on the other. You're statement outlined a fundamental lack of knowledge in the theory itself as well. There is nothing in evolutionary theory that states we evolved from monkeys or apes. Failing to understand the common ancestry part of the theory makes me, and I believe others here, believe that you lack any understanding of basic evolutionary theory. You need to get that before there can be an intelligent discussion on the theory itself.


On the other side, I have already posted why creationism does not belong in the classroom and it has absolutely nothing to do with questioning evolution, we should always challenge our scientific understanding. It has to do with the fact that creationism or ID are not scientific theories at all. Address that point and we can go somewhere on that topic.

It doesn't take one to have enough common sense to know right from wrong, and to know what ails this economy. It's funny how those on the left hold people with college on a pedestool, but yet those same people are the ones destroying the country, while lowly little insignificant non college folk like myself know how to balance my check book and spend within my means for my family. I make a very good living for myself, even though my college was limited to 1 course here and there while in the army, and those courses where nothing significant.
I work for the Government, and took a 2 year pay freeze and stand to take another 3 more years pay freeze should the GOP get elected, and you know what? I am voting GOP, because I will sacrifice that little bit of money to save my country from this monstrosity, because I love my kids and this country more then I love that paycheck. Can liberals do the same? I doubt it, they are the reason we are in this mess to begin with.

You'll be told you're voting against your own best interests.

And it's just sheer coincidence that your "best interests" is voting for Democrats.

No, really!

Honestly, I think the best interest of the US is to leave the field of the 2 party system. It's causing the MOST problems since we need more centrist policies and we are getting fringe policies that shouldn't be making their way into our system.

I want a no party system but I don't see that as ever happening. I would love to see our politicians actually running on issues instead of garnering 30 percent of the vote because of the small letter next to their name.

Education is vital to the wellbeing of our economy.

Therefore, it is a national interest.

Actually, it's not explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, therefore it's a state and local interest.

Alright. Let's see how well the US competes with other countries with an uneducated population.

Name one single poster that has said we should not educate our population.


Straw man set on fire - try again.

Cutting education simply isn't an option. However, the system needs to be restructured immediately.

Actually, it very much is an option. Because funding does not equal results.

Funding is directly equivalent to the amount of people that are able to enroll in the system actually.

If you can't support the growing population, you can't support the country.

And my point wasn't that throwing money into the system will suddenly make test scores higher, but it will provide more people with the opportunity to get a formal education.

And your point is false. All expenditures that have been brought up in the grater debate on the DoE within the political spectrum have been a PER STUDENT expenditure. As a matter of fact, as student base increases, per student rates should slightly drop. What we have is a massive increase in per student spending riding along a massive decrease in the effectiveness in education. There is an argument to be made that a MODERN education may cost more but not to the point of what we are seeing. Clearly, the money is not being spent in a good fashion. Education is available to all but a good one is not available at all and more money has not solved that problem one iota. There needs to be a complete revamping of the system.

On a side note, one of the major problems and one that Mike pointed out was the idea that we need to foster a child's feeling or opinion of themselves. That is not what school is about. It is about learning and failure should not only be possible but recognized and addressed. Today, we are exploring things like taking grades away, giving good grades for effort even if the information is wrong and other idiotic concepts like that.

Cutting education simply isn't an option. However, the system needs to be restructured immediately.

Actually, it very much is an option. Because funding does not equal results.

Then let's cut defense by about 50% and make it twice as good.

We could do that easily. You could almost achieve that by revamping the officer corps and the idiotic contracting system that we currently employ. I guess you were trying to be sarcastic though. Throwing funding at a problem does not always equal improvements and is almost always inefficient.

who is fighting education?
Who is fighting science?

Or are you falling for the rhetoric.

yeah...thats it...you are one of those easily duped by rhetoric.

Only 6% of scientists are Republicans. Fact!

Not at all surprising. What percentage are atheists?

Of course you missed the tons of posts (including one on this thread) that thoroughly debunked this claim and proved it to be 100% bullshit.

 

[NoNukes]

How does "They teach them history as it actually happened" sound like "They make it up"?

Are you really that stupid?

Typical liberal.......They see anything as a threat to their loony idoctrination desires, and you get stupid shit like what he posted.

They realize that liberalism can't survive the free exchange of ideas.

A person who accepts the free exchange of ideas would not paint their opponents with such broad strokes of the brush.

 

[NoNukes]

Typical liberal.......They see anything as a threat to their loony idoctrination desires, and you get stupid shit like what he posted.

So, that means that I am right and you have no reply. Typical right winger, cannot answer back, so you insult.

I did answer you in #345, fool......Go back and read it.

That doesn't make your question any less stupid.

My question was sarcastic, and obviously over your head.

 

[NoNukes]

They teach them the basics. They prepare them for the next step, which is prep. It's academically oriented. They don't shove politics or religion down their throats. They teach them history as it actually happened, not the loony liberal revisionist crap being taught in public schools.....They have a high standard set for the students. If the student isn't giving 100%, they won't be there long.....The teachers are also held to a high standard. They don't perform, they don't show overall success by their students achievements, they are gone, period.

This sounds like they make it up, like they do in Texas. Do they teach Creationism?

They teach all theories relative to that particular issue. The students are bright enough to make their own conclusions.

Why can they not draw their own conclusions from 'liberal revisionist history'? If liberals supported the theory of Creationism, you would be calling it liberal lunacy and nonsense, not worthy of being taught in your daughters' school. Since liberals oppose the theory, you have a knee jerk reaction and deem it worthy of the curriculum. One thing that is heartening is that since you are a Conservative, there is a very good chance of your daughters growing up to be liberals.

 

[Unkotare]

I thought we weren't supposed to go after families here?

 

[Unkotare]

I wasn't a normal child. The education system failed me because of that. I excelled so much at what I did and the school didn't know how to handle it.

Oh, brother......

 

[daveman]

Typical liberal.......They see anything as a threat to their loony idoctrination desires, and you get stupid shit like what he posted.

They realize that liberalism can't survive the free exchange of ideas.

A person who accepts the free exchange of ideas would not paint their opponents with such broad strokes of the brush.

I'm not talking about people, I'm talking about a political philosophy.

 

[Woyzeck]

Some in this country are fighting education.

No, some of us are fighting against federal government meddling in education. Big frickin' difference.

Why should the Federal government have any say in how our children are educated? Like some bueaucrat in Washington has some better idea how to teach our children then we do? Why the heck should they take our money only to hand it back to us with strings and conditions they don't have a right to ask for?

You want to see our educational system have incredible innovation? Get the Feds out of it.

The federal government really doesn't have that much power in determining what to teach your kids. The most they've done is demand standardized tests, which is only a small portion of a child's education, and put a carrot made of cash incentives in front of the states' faces.

The money for schools is controlled by the school districts and come from property taxes. If your local district is sending that money to Washington and then back, well, they're kind of retarded to do that with their money, because most school districts don't do that. If you're unhappy with your local school, write to the district, or even better use your power to vote at the ballot box when elections for the school committee come up.