Zone1 Why was Jesus crucified?

[irosie91]

Yes, Rome controlled Judea just as so many others had. The goal was safety on a critical trade route. What did Judea itself produce? What did they have to trade?

Herod was Jewish because of the forced conversion of the Edomites.

Herod was educated in Rome----and by family background and personal
culture, not considered
eligible to be THE KING and ON TOP OF THAT he was appointed by the
Roman oppressors-----Remember David?----JUDEAN
FROM BETHLEHEM-----sorta head of a royal line which is why
the silly story about Jesus and the Manger in Bethlehem was thrown
into the NT, You CLAIM you read the bible----remember ESAU---and
JACOB----Esau is the putative founder of the EDOMITES and JACOB is
the founder of the line of JUDAH (by his son which he appointed as
heir) HOWEVER ----all things considered-----no matter what his family
background----HEROD WAS NOT ELIGIBLE because of what HEROD was.
ASK JOHN OF THE MIKVAH. Calvinists hated EVERYONE----what were
you doing in New Amsterdam?

 

[surada]

Herod was educated in Rome----and by family background and personal
culture, not considered
eligible to be THE KING and ON TOP OF THAT he was appointed by the
Roman oppressors-----Remember David?----JUDEAN
FROM BETHLEHEM-----sorta head of a royal line which is why
the silly story about Jesus and the Manger in Bethlehem was thrown
into the NT, You CLAIM you read the bible----remember ESAU---and
JACOB----Esau is the putative founder of the EDOMITES and JACOB is
the founder of the line of JUDAH (by his son which he appointed as
heir) HOWEVER ----all things considered-----no matter what his family
background----HEROD WAS NOT ELIGIBLE because of what HEROD was.
ASK JOHN OF THE MIKVAH. Calvinists hated EVERYONE----what were
you doing in New Amsterdam?

My ancestors were Dutch seacaptains and sailors who worked for the Dutch East Indies company..

They were sailing to Brazil in the late 1500s... providing labor for the sugar Jews. When the Dutch/Portuguese lost out to the English they settled in New Amsterdam...actually a few years prior.

 

[irosie91]

You're saying that your town post war has Nazi and Islamic literature?

You don't know anything about Saudi schools.

Pakistan is still very poor . Saudi Arabia provides a lot of foreign aid, but naturally there's envy and resentful.

Islamo/nazi literature-----most of the stuff emanating from Egypt and Syria and authored by
escapees from the Nuremburg trials-----I have been VERY closely acquainted with young---
when I was young---educated Pakistanis. -----and later a few educated SAUDIS. Pakistan
is VERY ISLAMIC-----one can get into medical school by MEMORIZING THE KHARAHAN.
How do you imagine I know that ? -------did your Imam tell you that it is so taught in
synagogues ----or was it your anglican priest who claim jews get it with blood tinged
matzohs? You seem to imagine that you "KNOW" the contents of my brain---how long
have you KNOWN what people THINK? ------does that barrage of the thoughts of others into
your consciousness---upset you?
India is very poor too-----but educated hindus do not learn islamo nazi propaganda chapter
and verse and they manage to get into medical school without memorizing the RAMAYANA

 

[surada]

Islamo/nazi literature-----most of the stuff emanating from Egypt and Syria and authored by
escapees from the Nuremburg trials-----I have been VERY closely acquainted with young---
when I was young---educated Pakistanis. -----and later a few educated SAUDIS. Pakistan
is VERY ISLAMIC-----one can get into medical school by MEMORIZING THE KHARAHAN.
How do you imagine I know that ? -------did your Imam tell you that it is so taught in
synagogues ----or was it your anglican priest who claim jews get it with blood tinged
matzohs? You seem to imagine that you "KNOW" the contents of my brain---how long
have you KNOWN what people THINK? ------does that barrage of the thoughts of others into
your consciousness---upset you?
India is very poor too-----but educated hindus do not learn islamo nazi propaganda chapter
and verse and they manage to get into medical school without memorizing the RAMAYANA

Escapees from Nuremberg trials were producing Nazi and Islamic literature in Egypt for distribution in your town in post war United States?

 

[irosie91]

My ancestors were Dutch seacaptains and sailors who worked for the Dutch East Indies company..

They were sailing to Brazil in the late 1500s... providing labor for the sugar Jews. When the Dutch/Portuguese lost out to the English they settled in New Amsterdam...actually a few years prior.

Oh ----I have worked with lots of hindus----I heard about the IMPERIALIST EAST
INDIES company that destroyed Indian society and pillaged its wealth and even
messed up families by MARRYING-IN Gee---and
your people were slave traders too----sheeeesh The jewish survivors of the
INQUISTION imposed in South America by the Portuguese founded a synagogue still
extant in "NEW AMSTERDAM"---very interesting from an historic POV. Well---
your company also imposed TEA DRINKING on those impoverished but
cooperative Hindus

 

[surada]

Oh ----I have worked with lots of hindus----I heard about the IMPERIALIST EAST
INDIES company that destroyed Indian society and pillaged its wealth and even
messed up families by MARRYING-IN Gee---and
your people were slave traders too----sheeeesh The jewish survivors of the
INQUISTION imposed in South America by the Portuguese founded a synagogue still
extant in "NEW AMSTERDAM"---very interesting from an historic POV. Well---
your company also imposed TEA DRINKING on those impoverished but
cooperative Hindus

Yep. They operated slave ships and hauled sugar, rum etc back to the colonies and Europe.

 

[irosie91]

Escapees from Nuremberg trials were producing Nazi and Islamic literature in Egypt for distribution in your town in post war United States?

yes-----my town was ONE OF MANY that so benefitted----the literature was also
disseminated all over lily-white southern cities. The Escapees did not originate the
stuff from Egypt and Syria-----similar stuff came out of Germany itself as early as
the Mid 30's. At that time the themes were mostly denial of the silly notion that the
nazis were oppressive to jews. By the mid-fifties ----"zionism" was the dirty word along
with the typical libels that muslims so EAGERLY adopted-----like the blood libels which are
still part of the grammar school curriculum in muslim nations

 

[JohnDB]

This is in response to the thread about why Jews reject Jesus as Messiah

Answer this question and you get your answer to the other thread.

After all, the rejection of Jesus by the Jewish leaders of the time of Jesus is why he was rejected by Jews today.

Ok I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask a question.

Are you more concerned with why Jesus was executed or by the means used to execute him?

 

[irosie91]

Ok I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask a question.

Are you more concerned with why Jesus was executed or by the means used to execute him?

I would pose another question which is-----WHO were the jewish leaders who
rejected Jesus? At that time "Jewish leaders" would have been intellectuals
who WROTE INCESSANTLY. You have some written stuff attacking Jesus? There
is ample evidence of anti-rome stuff and anti-traitors to Rome like CAIAPHAS stuff.
Anything on this overt HATRED OF JESUS?

 

[surada]

yes-----my town was ONE OF MANY that so benefitted----the literature was also
disseminated all over lily-white southern cities. The Escapees did not originate the
stuff from Egypt and Syria-----similar stuff came out of Germany itself as early as
the Mid 30's. At that time the themes were mostly denial of the silly notion that the
nazis were oppressive to jews. By the mid-fifties ----"zionism" was the dirty word along
with the typical libels that muslims so EAGERLY adopted-----like the blood libels which are
still part of the grammar school curriculum in muslim nations

I wasn't around in the 1930s. I have never seen any literature like that in the South or anywhere else.

 

[irosie91]

I wasn't around in the 1930s. I have never seen any literature like that in the South or anywhere else.

ok---you haven't seen it. I have. When I was a fairly young adult---I was in the NAVY
for a few years------lots of the enlisted kids were from the South----lots of them had
that literature. In my youth the areas on the fringe of town ---where the truck drivers
stopped and there were bars and "rooms for rent by the hour" (which always confused
me)---the pamphlets fluttered in the breeze.

 

[surada]

ok---you haven't seen it. I have. When I was a fairly young adult---I was in the NAVY
for a few years------lots of the enlisted kids were from the South----lots of them had
that literature. In my youth the areas on the fringe of town ---where the truck drivers
stopped and there were bars and "rooms for rent by the hour" (which always confused
me)---the pamphlets fluttered in the breeze.

Really?

 

[irosie91]

Really?

yes---propaganda mongers plop their stuff where
they can. Proselytizers do it too.

 

[Lastamender]

can you name at least a few of those "people in power in Jewish
leadership" ?

Ciaphus.

 

[irosie91]

Ciaphus.

that's Caiaphas----a Roman appointee ----so despised and rejected by mainstream
Judea that his name is STILL reviled in 21st century Yeshivas. That's your "recognize and
accepted religious LEADER" --try again

 

[JohnDB]

I would pose another question which is-----WHO were the jewish leaders who
rejected Jesus? At that time "Jewish leaders" would have been intellectuals
who WROTE INCESSANTLY. You have some written stuff attacking Jesus? There
is ample evidence of anti-rome stuff and anti-traitors to Rome like CAIAPHAS stuff.
Anything on this overt HATRED OF JESUS?

Ok...
There was no focused intentional ongoing hatred of Jesus by the Sanhidrin (Ruling Jewish council).
Because of Christianity most people are under an illusion that Jesus was the non-stop talk and focus of all of Israel as to whether He was the Messiah or not.
That isn't true.
Of all the many proclaimed "messiahs" running around during this time period the Jesus that is worshipped today was the least successful of them all when counting followers. The most that ever collected at one time was 8,000...and it was just for lunch. The other two we know for sure about had 15,000 and 25,000 men armed and ready to fight.

No, the religious leaders including the Sanhidrin had an ongoing, intense hatred of Rome and Roman society due to the Hellenization that came with them. The religious leadership chose Jesus as a political football to use as a wedge to separate the Jews from the Romans and to say that Rome was killing their prophets. The religious leaders thought nothing of Jesus except that He was always going to be too unimportant to really matter at all.
(Little did they know and realize until it was way too late)

 

[irosie91]

Ok...
There was no focused intentional ongoing hatred of Jesus by the Sanhidrin (Ruling Jewish council).
Because of Christianity most people are under an illusion that Jesus was the non-stop talk and focus of all of Israel as to whether He was the Messiah or not.
That isn't true.
Of all the many proclaimed "messiahs" running around during this time period the Jesus that is worshipped today was the least successful of them all when counting followers. The most that ever collected at one time was 8,000...and it was just for lunch. The other two we know for sure about had 15,000 and 25,000 men armed and ready to fight.

No, the religious leaders including the Sanhidrin had an ongoing, intense hatred of Rome and Roman society due to the Hellenization that came with them. The religious leadership chose Jesus as a political football to use as a wedge to separate the Jews from the Romans and to say that Rome was killing their prophets. The religious leaders thought nothing of Jesus except that He was always going to be too unimportant to really matter at all.
(Little did they know and realize until it was way too late)

you made a few valid points---but not many and in general you scored a big miss. Your big
miss was .... "the religious leadership, chose Jesus as a political football to use
as a wedge to separate the Jews from the Romans and to say that Rome was killing their
prophets" There is absolutely NOTHING about the quoted statement that holds any
reality at all. You got it right when you said that he was considered unimportant ----so
unimportant, in fact, that nobody talked about him or wrote about him at all----with a tiny
exception of some stuff MUCH LATER-----very tiny. My very own hubby got the writings
of those days shoved down his throat as a child and still does not know who JESUS was.
What is true is that as a christian you were given the impression that JESUS is and was a
big topic for jews and even the talmud bats him around-----NOPE. He was a big topic for ME
because I grew up in a christian town, got yanked to SUNDAY SCHOOL with friends and there
learned that JESUS is a topic for jews---quite a joke. As for Yeshiva boy hubby---HE NEVAH HEARD OF HIM. Every year I remind him of the difference between Easter and Christmas.
In order to help your understanding, it is important that you know that Hubby was
born in a VERY traditional community of Jews in a SHARIAH SHIT HOLE. They knew about
a guy named Muhummad. I will add that the jews of those days did not need to be
propagandized to despise the Romans and LOTS of the jews in power were ROMAN APPOINTEES---including King Herod and most of the Sanhedrin and the tax collectors. Religious leaders
were people like HILLEL----who precedes Jesus----Jesus quotes him INCESSANTLY

 

[JohnDB]

you made a few valid points---but not many and in general you scored a big miss. Your big
miss was .... "the religious leadership, chose Jesus as a political football to use
as a wedge to separate the Jews from the Romans and to say that Rome was killing their
prophets" There is absolutely NOTHING about the quoted statement that holds any
reality at all. You got it right when you said that he was considered unimportant ----so
unimportant, in fact, that nobody talked about him or wrote about him at all----with a tiny
exception of some stuff MUCH LATER-----very tiny. My very own hubby got the writings
of those days shoved down his throat as a child and still does not know who JESUS was.
What is true is that as a christian you were given the impression that JESUS is and was a
big topic for jews and even the talmud bats him around-----NOPE. He was a big topic for ME
because I grew up in a christian town, got yanked to SUNDAY SCHOOL with friends and there
learned that JESUS is a topic for jews---quite a joke. As for Yeshiva boy hubby---HE NEVAH HEARD OF HIM. Every year I remind him of the difference between Easter and Christmas.
In order to help your understanding, it is important that you know that Hubby was
born in a VERY traditional community of Jews in a SHARIAH SHIT HOLE. They knew about
a guy named Muhummad. I will add that the jews of those days did not need to be
propagandized to despise the Romans and LOTS of the jews in power were ROMAN APPOINTEES---including King Herod and most of the Sanhedrin and the tax collectors. Religious leaders
were people like HILLEL----who precedes Jesus----Jesus quotes him INCESSANTLY

The thing you missed was the whole Hellenization. It was popular and slowly being received by the Jews. (Theatre, Sex and violence have always been popular...even to this day) The Sadducees were appointed by Rome...not the Sanhidrin. The Sadducees really were disconnected from day to day life and didn't care to do anything. (Which is why Rome appointed them eventually to begin with)

Hillel and others were quoted by Jesus....including Confucius and others....but in each case the "quotes" were changed. Especially with the negatives or restrictive statements turned into positive actions of things to do.

However minor Jesus and his followers were at the beginning....(the early church had around 5% of the total population of Roman Empire) it ballooned when Constantine came into power around 300AD....even if Constantine did enjoy a Sun Worshipping Orgy from time to time afterwards.

And the entire New Testament was penned and collected by 100AD. The very last addition was the letter by Jude...not a very preached book because of the huge amount of Talmud quoted by it. Hebrews by Bartholomew/Barnabas (cant ever remember) is much more used and quoted.

BUT
Christianity never once evaporated or disappeared....just like Judaism. These are the world's oldest practiced religions. Nobody worships Greek gods or Egyptian gods or canaanite gods today....

Just food for thought.

 

[BreezeWood]

And who said that there was anything wrong with being Jewish?

can you keep up ... jesus -

and those willing to perish for liberation theology, self determination - than the liar moses, who their mother was and servitude to a father figure.

though their efforts were again stymied in the 4th century by the crucifiers that wrote the c-bible - not withstanding the demise of judaism.

- and today to bring to justice the crucifiers once and for all for the true heavenly religion granted a&e for their journey will again lead to the path when accomplished - for remission to paradise, the original goal.

 

[irosie91]

The thing you missed was the whole Hellenization. It was popular and slowly being received by the Jews. (Theatre, Sex and violence have always been popular...even to this day) The Sadducees were appointed by Rome...not the Sanhidrin. The Sadducees really were disconnected from day to day life and didn't care to do anything. (Which is why Rome appointed them eventually to begin with)

Hillel and others were quoted by Jesus....including Confucius and others....but in each case the "quotes" were changed. Especially with the negatives or restrictive statements turned into positive actions of things to do.

However minor Jesus and his followers were at the beginning....(the early church had around 5% of the total population of Roman Empire) it ballooned when Constantine came into power around 300AD....even if Constantine did enjoy a Sun Worshipping Orgy from time to time afterwards.

And the entire New Testament was penned and collected by 100AD. The very last addition was the letter by Jude...not a very preached book because of the huge amount of Talmud quoted by it. Hebrews by Bartholomew/Barnabas (cant ever remember) is much more used and quoted.

BUT
Christianity never once evaporated or disappeared....just like Judaism. These are the world's oldest practiced religions. Nobody worships Greek gods or Egyptian gods or canaanite gods today....

Just food for thought.

Thanks-----interesting but not a full or satisfying meal-----many glitches. Now for reality.
Hillel was quoted very accurately and unchanged by Jesus----of course then all kinds of stuff
underwent Council of Nicea editing. AS to "The entire New Testament was penned and collected by 100 AD" oh yeah?-----WHAT DID THEY DO WITH IT and what happened to corroborating writings? As to Confucius -----how about Beowulf? Did Jesus have the aramaic
translations?