Why Shouldn't we Think Deathboards weren't a Part of Obama Health Care Plan?

[ihopehefails]

Are we really to believe that the democrats didn't try to create some kind of deathboard policy when they are the same party that tells us that its a woman's right to choose because it either reduces crime, beneifits to the poor economically, or just plain good for population control. I think its not to much of an intellectual leap to go from advocating for voluntary infanticide to advocating suggestive suicide for the elderly by the government.

Give Me a Fudgin Break Obama!

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Why SHOULD we?

 

[Big Black Dog]

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of liberal Democraps?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Are we really to believe that the democrats didn't try to create some kind of deathboard policy when they are the same party that tells us that its a woman's right to choose because it either reduces crime, beneifits to the poor economically, or just plain good for population control. I think its not to much of an intellectual leap to go from advocating for voluntary infanticide to advocating suggestive suicide for the elderly by the government.

Give Me a Fudgin Break Obama!

wow, even when there are sound arguments for your side of the debate you still need to resort to emotionalism, hyperbole and bull shit. That's pitiful.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Are we really to believe that the democrats didn't try to create some kind of deathboard policy when they are the same party that tells us that its a woman's right to choose because it either reduces crime, beneifits to the poor economically, or just plain good for population control. I think its not to much of an intellectual leap to go from advocating for voluntary infanticide to advocating suggestive suicide for the elderly by the government.

Give Me a Fudgin Break Obama!

I guess... but that suggests that an infant doesn't have to be an infant to be infantacized. And I thought it was a death panel? Damn... I'm going to need you conspiracy theorists to stick with one name so I can keep up.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of liberal Democraps?

 

[ihopehefails]

Are we really to believe that the democrats didn't try to create some kind of deathboard policy when they are the same party that tells us that its a woman's right to choose because it either reduces crime, beneifits to the poor economically, or just plain good for population control. I think its not to much of an intellectual leap to go from advocating for voluntary infanticide to advocating suggestive suicide for the elderly by the government.

Give Me a Fudgin Break Obama!

wow, even when there are sound arguments for your side of the debate you still need to resort to emotionalism, hyperbole and bull shit. That's pitiful.

Like I said. There were not official deathboards written in the bill that we know of but when you look at the past of most far left thinkers there ideas tend to follow this route and there were many provisions in the bill that would either make it impossible to obtain private insurance in order to drive everyone onto the government plan where they would essentially be the ones paying the bills which puts them in a position of power over what treatments you will get.

Now I know you think this is paranoid crap but just look at social security. The government dictates when you retire and decides what you will get once you do retire and this year marks the first time that there was no cost of living expenses added into the checks. Now imagine if the government was the "single" payer of health care and realized that it was just to expensive to keep grandma alive. Would her care get a cut from the government like it is with social security?

Again you may think that this is paranoid crap but when the title of a newsweek cover says "The Case for Killing Grandma" it makes me wonder how people on the far left think of the worth of people.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Why Shouldn't we Think Deathboards weren't a Part of Obama Health Care Plan?

Because they weren't?

 

[ihopehefails]

Are we really to believe that the democrats didn't try to create some kind of deathboard policy when they are the same party that tells us that its a woman's right to choose because it either reduces crime, beneifits to the poor economically, or just plain good for population control. I think its not to much of an intellectual leap to go from advocating for voluntary infanticide to advocating suggestive suicide for the elderly by the government.

Give Me a Fudgin Break Obama!

I guess... but that suggests that an infant doesn't have to be an infant to be infantacized. And I thought it was a death panel? Damn... I'm going to need you conspiracy theorists to stick with one name so I can keep up.

I'm sorry if you don't realize certain things but have you considered why the thing that has authority over our lives now wants to give us something for free? I'm always a little suspicious when my boss gives me an extended lunch break when I know that the only reason he is doing it is to manage my time for his benefit. I hope you get the analogy because people who have control over you don't do things for your benefit but do them because they can and the healthcare bill was and is an attempt to control another aspect of our lives.

 

[ihopehefails]

Why Shouldn't we Think Deathboards weren't a Part of Obama Health Care Plan?

Because they weren't?

How would anyone know? Has anyone read it?

 

[ihopehefails]

Are we really to believe that the democrats didn't try to create some kind of deathboard policy when they are the same party that tells us that its a woman's right to choose because it either reduces crime, beneifits to the poor economically, or just plain good for population control. I think its not to much of an intellectual leap to go from advocating for voluntary infanticide to advocating suggestive suicide for the elderly by the government.

Give Me a Fudgin Break Obama!

I guess... but that suggests that an infant doesn't have to be an infant to be infantacized. And I thought it was a death panel? Damn... I'm going to need you conspiracy theorists to stick with one name so I can keep up.

I would like to start a chain of abortion clinics that have a high percentage of liberals so that the next generation never comes to fruition.

 

[Luissa]

the so called "death panels" aka end of life councelling was probably the best part of the bill, republicans had to shit all over it and make it out to be something it is not and now something that we actually needed will not be put into place.

 

[Luissa]

Are we really to believe that the democrats didn't try to create some kind of deathboard policy when they are the same party that tells us that its a woman's right to choose because it either reduces crime, beneifits to the poor economically, or just plain good for population control. I think its not to much of an intellectual leap to go from advocating for voluntary infanticide to advocating suggestive suicide for the elderly by the government.

Give Me a Fudgin Break Obama!

I guess... but that suggests that an infant doesn't have to be an infant to be infantacized. And I thought it was a death panel? Damn... I'm going to need you conspiracy theorists to stick with one name so I can keep up.

I would like to start a chain of abortion clinics that have a high percentage of liberals so that the next generation never comes to fruition.

why don't you offer something other then bullshit to the debate.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Are we really to believe that the democrats didn't try to create some kind of deathboard policy when they are the same party that tells us that its a woman's right to choose because it either reduces crime, beneifits to the poor economically, or just plain good for population control. I think its not to much of an intellectual leap to go from advocating for voluntary infanticide to advocating suggestive suicide for the elderly by the government.

Give Me a Fudgin Break Obama!

I guess... but that suggests that an infant doesn't have to be an infant to be infantacized. And I thought it was a death panel? Damn... I'm going to need you conspiracy theorists to stick with one name so I can keep up.

I'm sorry if you don't realize certain things but have you considered why the thing that has authority over our lives now wants to give us something for free? I'm always a little suspicious when my boss gives me an extended lunch break when I know that the only reason he is doing it is to manage my time for his benefit. I hope you get the analogy because people who have control over you don't do things for your benefit but do them because they can and the healthcare bill was and is an attempt to control another aspect of our lives.

Sure fine. That's great. Suspicious is wonderful. Society wouldn't be healthy if there wasn't a little bit of reasonable suspicion between the people and the government. When it transcends "reasonable" suspicion and then enters into absolute crazy and unfounded on facts that's when I have a problem with it. The concept of a death panel must be a part of the health care discussion when your dealing with insuring that rationing doesn't become a reality, etc. It also becomes apart of the debate when we're talking about insurance companies denying coverage to people with pre-conditions. There is no shortage a greed from neither the side of the government nor the insurance companies, each must have some sort of check to balance the other out.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Are we really to believe that the democrats didn't try to create some kind of deathboard policy when they are the same party that tells us that its a woman's right to choose because it either reduces crime, beneifits to the poor economically, or just plain good for population control. I think its not to much of an intellectual leap to go from advocating for voluntary infanticide to advocating suggestive suicide for the elderly by the government.

Give Me a Fudgin Break Obama!

I guess... but that suggests that an infant doesn't have to be an infant to be infantacized. And I thought it was a death panel? Damn... I'm going to need you conspiracy theorists to stick with one name so I can keep up.

I would like to start a chain of abortion clinics that have a high percentage of liberals so that the next generation never comes to fruition.

How ... freedom-loving of you. Population control for people who think differently, yeup that's not fascism... not fascism at all.

 

[Coyote]

Are we really to believe that the democrats didn't try to create some kind of deathboard policy when they are the same party that tells us that its a woman's right to choose because it either reduces crime, beneifits to the poor economically, or just plain good for population control. I think its not to much of an intellectual leap to go from advocating for voluntary infanticide to advocating suggestive suicide for the elderly by the government.

Give Me a Fudgin Break Obama!

I guess... but that suggests that an infant doesn't have to be an infant to be infantacized. And I thought it was a death panel? Damn... I'm going to need you conspiracy theorists to stick with one name so I can keep up.

I'm sorry if you don't realize certain things but have you considered why the thing that has authority over our lives now wants to give us something for free? I'm always a little suspicious when my boss gives me an extended lunch break when I know that the only reason he is doing it is to manage my time for his benefit. I hope you get the analogy because people who have control over you don't do things for your benefit but do them because they can and the healthcare bill was and is an attempt to control another aspect of our lives.

Or maybe it's just a bill to give more people more healthcare.

The control issues are no different than the current "free market" system.

 

[Coyote]

Are we really to believe that the democrats didn't try to create some kind of deathboard policy when they are the same party that tells us that its a woman's right to choose because it either reduces crime, beneifits to the poor economically, or just plain good for population control. I think its not to much of an intellectual leap to go from advocating for voluntary infanticide to advocating suggestive suicide for the elderly by the government.

Give Me a Fudgin Break Obama!

I guess... but that suggests that an infant doesn't have to be an infant to be infantacized. And I thought it was a death panel? Damn... I'm going to need you conspiracy theorists to stick with one name so I can keep up.

I would like to start a chain of abortion clinics that have a high percentage of liberals so that the next generation never comes to fruition.

Just keep starting your wars and you'll likely have the same results.

 

[Rinata]

Are we really to believe that the democrats didn't try to create some kind of deathboard policy when they are the same party that tells us that its a woman's right to choose because it either reduces crime, beneifits to the poor economically, or just plain good for population control. I think its not to much of an intellectual leap to go from advocating for voluntary infanticide to advocating suggestive suicide for the elderly by the government.

Give Me a Fudgin Break Obama!

Get real. You and the other nuts that keep claiming there is some kind of deathbed policy know damn well that it isn't true. You're all liars. Plain and simple.

At least two Republican leaders have echoed this end-of-life distortion. On July 23, Republican Rep. John Boehner of Ohio, the House minority leader, released a statement, along with Republican Policy Committee Chairman Thaddeus McCotter of Michigan, saying that the bill would encourage euthanasia:

Boehner/McCotter statement, July 23: Section 1233 of the House-drafted legislation encourages health care providers to provide their Medicare patients with counseling on “the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration” and other end of life treatments, and may place seniors in situations where they feel pressured to sign end of life directives they would not otherwise sign. This provision may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if enacted into law.

We can’t argue with Boehner’s claim that counseling “may” cause more seniors to refuse treatment such as artificial nutrition and hydration, but we see no evidence that it will. There’s certainly no requirement in the bill that seniors decline life support or extraordinary measures of medical treatment.

Furthermore, seniors have had control over the end-of-life issues the Republicans are concerned about for a long time. California first legally ratified the use of advance directives like living wills in 1976, and the 1990 Patient Self-Determination Act mandated patients’ rights to decide what degree of intervention they prefer. Though there are still controversies over what care patients should be allowed to refuse and under what circumstances, the fact is that the right to refuse care is nothing new.

As for the argument claiming that this is the first step on a slippery slope leading to government-encouraged euthanasia, that’s a stretch. The right to draw up an advance directive is federally guaranteed, but doctor-assisted suicide is legal in only three states. It would take a lot more than Medicare-funded counseling for voluntary euthanasia to become a standard government recommendation.

The original author of this part of the legislation responded to Boehner’s and McCotter’s statement on the House floor, saying that "nothing could be further from the truth." The section under question was based on a stand-alone piece of legislation sponsored by Democratic Rep. Earl Blumenauer of Oregon and Republican Rep. Charles Boustany of Louisiana. Three more Democrats and another Republican cosponsored the legislation. On July 24, Blumenauer expressed his "disappointment" in Boehner’s misinterpretation of the bipartisan bill:

Rep. Blumenauer, July 24: In a statement from the minority leader … there is an allegation that somehow there is legislation in the health care draft that may place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign that may start us down a "treacherous path towards government-encouraged euthanasia if enacted into law."

Well, Mr. Speaker, nothing could be further from the truth. Had the minority leader, and his whip, and the conference Chair bothered to check how that legislation came to be enacted into our health care legislation, they would have found out that it was work of a bipartisan group of Ways and Means Committee members. There were Republicans cosponsoring it along with Democrats. …

We’re seeking … to be able to adjust Medicare so that it speaks to the needs of American seniors and their families, that they’re given the attention they need to prepare for this difficult period of time. There’s nothing in this legislation that would force people to have consultations. There’s nothing that would force them to sign advance directives. It’s not going to choose a health care professional by the government and force it on them. …

Mr. Speaker, I can’t tell you how disappointed I was to see this type of reaction to a carefully crafted piece of legislation that we’ve been working on for more than 6 months that is bipartisan and that speaks to the needs of American families.

Blumenauer also discussed the importance of advance planning on life-extension treatment. "[T]oo often senior citizens and their families are not given the information they need to be able to cope with the most serious situation any of us will ever face as we have a loved one move into the end of his or her life," he said. "We had … Republican committee members talk about how their loved ones didn’t get that type of help at the end of life and actually were subjected to things that they thought were not in the best interests of their loved one. If they had a choice, they wouldn’t have done it over again, and it didn’t prolong their life, it actually made them less comfortable."

Do you get it now???

 

[saveliberty]

I would argue with the Libs here, but they don't believe you even when a source is cited. Since HR 3200 didn't layout word for word there was a death panel, there is no hope of helping them understand. Here's the thing. If you are going to cover ALL Americans with health coverage (minus 16-20 million), no plan to increase the number of doctors in the system, create a whole new system of fee collection and reduce costs, you HAVE TO RATION SERVICES. Waiting for care will mean death for some folks.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Forget about death panels....the tax increases that will be seen from this government run healthcare scheme brewing in Washington is estimated to be between 10%-15%....that's right...THIS is what EVERY AMERICAN HOUSEHOLD will see.

and let me ask something of the thinking Americans who are reading this thread.

Who can name ONE government entitlement program that has EVER came in on budget or under budget?