Zone1 Why is it so tough to believe in God?

[devilish ray marsh]

My short and immediate answer is pride. Secular humanism is a very powerful force that appeals to ego.

 

[Meriweather]

Since it is you who I'm talking to. And your arguments I'm addressing. Arguments that are riddled with fallacies it's inevitable that I will point them out.

It's inevitable for to post what another is "really" thinking/doing? That's where Don't pursue the lie/assumption comes into play. Don't talk about the poster, talk about the subject under discussion.

 

[Meriweather]

One more, to really drill it home.

Discussions require 2 people talking to each other. If one person can simply evade whatever they don't want to talk about it's not a discussion but 2 people holding a monologue.

Strawmen, category errors, faulty analogies, begging the question, and any one of the dozen or so ways I've seen you use to avoid addressing what is said are the rethorical equivalent of cheating. And I call out cheaters.

If you don't like that feel free to not reply, because that will never change.

I'll be here though if you really want to talk about why people believe or not. And we don't need to agree about it, just be honest to each other.

But doing so would force you to face the possibility that you might be wrong, and that’s what you can’t abide.

Prove it.

I never called you delusional, I asked how you tell the difference

Suggesting it might be.

 

[Meriweather]

I'll be here though if you really want to talk about why people believe or not. And we don't need to agree about it, just be honest to each other.

Sigh. I don't know how many times it has to be said. Talking through different perspectives is simply that. Think of two people on a mountain top, one facing east, one facing west. They are explaining to the other what they see. No one is right. No one is wrong. No one is trying to convince the other that what is seen in one direction has to be what is seen in the other direction. No one is trying to tell the other who or what they "really" are because the other one is not present in his/her own perspective or his/her experience. As I have posted (the third time now?), I haven't the least interest in convincing you of anything or persuading you of anything. I'm merely expressing my perspective on how/why some believe and have faith in God.

I was enjoying the discussion between us until the discussion of that changed to a discussion of the made-up Meriweather, a true delusion that came from someone's mind and is not the reality. As long as it is not a re-creation of me, pick a point to discuss further, and I'm all in. Here's a challenge: Let's agree to eliminate the word "you" from future discussions.

 

[forkup]

Prove it.

Answer the question and prove me wrong.

As for what you experienced. How do you distinguish what you experienced from a delusion? Or motivated thinking? How do you get to god. Because I promise you people who have had similar experiences exists that worship other God's than you.

Suggesting it might be.

I wasn't suggesting it either. I was asking you a question. A question doesn't suggest anything since it simply requires an answer from you not a judgement from me.

Don't talk about the poster, talk about the subject under discussion.

I have over and over again. You seem to somehow believe that it's possible to have a discussion about why people do or don't believe in God without talking about how you get to believing something and wether that belief is warranted. That question is central to it.

As for not talking about the poster. Again not true. This is a forum not an official debate, there's nobody moderating a discussion so it's on the posters to hold each other to account when they are evasive, dishonest or when the arguments don't make sense. You can check this entire OP. Not one reply I gave you ever simply talked about you. When I have it was to hold you to account and never without addressing the premise of what you said in the text I quoted. I think I've been respectful but that doesn't mean I'm required to let you get away with things out of a sense of politeness. Nor do I have a problem with you doing the same. In fact I applaud it if you can back it up.

 

[Meriweather]

You seem to somehow believe that it's possible to have a discussion about why people do or don't believe in God without talking about how you get to believing something and wether that belief is warranted. That question is central to it.

That's not what I believe.

I believe it is possible to have a discussion about why people do or do not believe in God with one poster telling the other what they "really" are thinking or what they "really" believe. Have you ever been in a formal debate? No one can change the debate point to make the debate about his/her opponent.

 

[forkup]

That's not what I believe.

I believe it is possible to have a discussion about why people do or do not believe in God with one poster telling the other what they "really" are thinking or what they "really" believe. Have you ever been in a formal debate? No one can change the debate point to make the debate about his/her opponent.

Sure, it's possible to talk about something by only addressing the what and never the why. But that’s not a discussion, that’s just two people making declarations at each other.

And I didn’t make anything “about the poster.” I addressed methodology, which is necessary if you want an actual conversation about belief. You can’t talk about why people do or don’t believe in God without also talking about how those beliefs are formed and whether the reasoning behind them is sound.

The only time I addressed you directly was when the arguments you used were flawed or evasive, and even then, I always explained the specific issue in the text I quoted from you. That’s not personal; that’s holding each other accountable, which is part of any real discussion.

 

[Meriweather]

As for what you experienced. How do you distinguish what you experienced from a delusion?

I am not a psychologist. I do not know any delusional people. Therefore I am not even qualified to address that question.

Here are my two sole experiences with two family members, each experiencing the side effects of the anesthesia they were given during an operation. After coming home, one woke up to find dancing girls performing at the foot of the bed. She knew she was not dreaming. She shook her husband, and when he woke up she said, "I am having a delusion. I see dancing girls performing at the foot of the bed." The dance ended and she went back to sleep. In the morning she remembered the delusion as well as remembering an actual dream before waking.

Let's pause here for these questions: How does one distinguish a delusion from a dream? How does one distinguish a stray thought from a dream? How does one distinguish imagining something happened from the reality something happened?

The second delusion: A couple of days after coming home from his operation, my dad walked from the kitchen into our fairly large family room. There, in front of the fireplace, was a small, red sports car. I happened to be there, and I saw the expression on his face change as he entered the room. He turned to me and said, "I'm having a delusion--unless there really is a small red sports car there in front of the fireplace." He was not imagining it, he was not dreaming it, he hadn't been thinking of cars at all.

Note that in these two examples, each person was able to identify what was happening.

I can distinguish reality from dreams, from imagination, from stray thoughts, wishful thinking, etc. How can I do this? Ask yourself how you can.

 

[hobelim]

If I were deluded, you would explain how,

Well thats easy. You have been alerted to the fact that a trinity does not exist, Jesus was not a mangod with supernatural powers over reality, what you do at mass is a brazen violation of the command against idolatry, and you are a murder for misleading others to do the same and so you died "the death" and descended into Gehenna decades ago, a curse you are under for eating the vile and loathsome flesh of unclean creatures that do not ruminate which has defiled and contaminated your addled mind. How do I know? the blood of unclean creatures is dripping from your unclean lips, and every time I squeeze your head a foul and smelly pus comes oozing out.

You have been made aware of this but have willfully chosen to remain under a clearly explained and revealed to you delusion allowing satan to remain in your mind to perpetuate lies so according to Hebrews 10:26, writings you profess to believe is the word of God you are fucked by making sinfulness an informed deliberate choice.

Thats the way the cookie crumbles.

I'm here to destroy that 'hope' of yours.

Grrrrrrrrr!

You understand neither scripture nor the power of my God much less where I am coming from where I am going or what my hope is. I am here to judge the living and the dead, like you. One will be taken, the other will be left behind, like you.

Toodles!

You pompous jackass.

 

[Meriweather]

I addressed methodology

Methodology can be addressed without "you". If one cannot grasp/understand the methodology used, perhaps ask for an explanation rather make an accusation that methodology is flawed?

The only time I addressed you directly was when the arguments you used were flawed or evasive

Address the argument, not the the poster. Simply because someone imagines an argument to be flawed or evasive, that is not necessarily the reality--it is merely the imagining of one poster about the other poster.

 

[Quantrill]

Well thats easy. You have been alerted to the fact that a trinity does not exist, Jesus was not a mangod with supernatural powers over reality, what you do at mass is a brazen violation of the command against idolatry, and you are a murder for misleading others to do the same and so you died "the death" and descended into Gehenna decades ago, a curse you are under for eating the vile and loathsome flesh of unclean creatures that do not ruminate which has defiled and contaminated your addled mind. How do I know? the blood of unclean creatures is dripping from your unclean lips, and every time I squeeze your head a foul and smelly pus comes oozing out.

You have been made aware of this but have willfully chosen to remain under a clearly explained and revealed to you delusion allowing satan to remain in your mind to perpetuate lies so according to Hebrews 10:26, writings you profess to believe is the word of God you are fucked by making sinfulness an informed deliberate choice.

Thats the way the cookie crumbles.



Grrrrrrrrr!

You understand neither scripture nor the power of my God much less where I am coming from where I am going or what my hope is. I am here to judge the living and the dead, like you. One will be taken, the other will be left behind, like you.

Toodles!

You pompous jackass.

Pay attention, if possible. You brought up (Heb. 10:26). Remember? Post #(841) You did so thinking it was against me, and you said, 'if it were true?'

In post #(842) I responded and showed you that it was true, but that you didn't have the slightest idea what it was saying. And instead of being against me, it was against you as it showed you to be the liar you are. Showed how you manipulate Scriptures for you own ends.

Then in post #(843) you claim I was deluded but made no effort how I was mistaken in showing you what (Heb. 10:26) really meant. And you just go off on your usual tirade making accusations and perverting the Scriptures.

Oh yes, I know where you come from. And where you are going. And I continually destroy your hope that no one will know the Scriptures you constantly pervert and distort. As I continually call you on them.

No, you're nothing like me or any other real Christian.

So, give me the Scripture of one taken and one left behind?

Quantrill

 

[hobelim]

Pay attention, if possible. You brought up (Heb. 10:26). Remember? Post #(841) You did so thinking it was against me, and you said, 'if it were true?'

Right. If it was what was written is the truth then you are fucked. Why are you having trouble accepting this?

I though you were a believer?

 

[Quantrill]

Right. If it was what was written is the truth then you are fucked. Why are you having trouble accepting this?

I though you were a believer?

Pay attention. I explained it in post #(842). What's the problem?

And, where is the Scripture of the one taken and the one left behind?

Quantrill

 

[hobelim]

Pay attention. I explained it in post #(842). What's the problem?

The problem is that what you think you explained is just BS, another discordant noise in the cacophony of hell.

And, where is the Scripture of the one taken and the one left behind?

Its right there in the very same Bible I thought you claimed to have read and believe. Enough with your BS.

I tried to warn you. Tenga mucho cuidado en su proceder. No me obligue enseñarle lo que yo sé.

And you responded "chili con carne." Ha ha.

Now you are really fucked. More fucked than before. Not to worry! Its not all bad. The good news is that many people worldwide will come to believe in my God WATCHING you in horror slowly disintegrate into nothingness.

 

[Eman623]

Is it because:

• Lack of belief we are lovable
• Lack of belief we are cared for
• Lack of belief God is an active agent in our lives
• Lack of belief we have a reason for being

What blocks people from believing in God? Why is it so hard to believe?

Lack of belief in God?

 

[Quantrill]

The problem is that what you think you explained is just another incoherent noise in the cacophony of hell.



Its right there in the very same Bible I thought you claimed to have read and believe. Enough with your BS.

I tried to warn you. Tenga mucho cuidado en su proceder. No me obligue enseñarle lo que yo sé.

Now you are really fucked.

Not to worry ! Many people will come to believe in my God as they watch you slowly disintegrate into nothingness.

No, I explained it perfectly. Just because you deny it means nothing. You can't make it say anything else. Though you try to.

Of course you won't give the Scripture. I doubt you even know where it is located. Once again I reveal your ignorance and destroy your hope. I enjoy lifting up that rock and watching the vermin run.

Chile Con Carne.

How many people believe in your god now? And who are they? What are they called? Where is the writings of your god?

Quantrill

 

[pal]

The Pro Israel Christian is the single most destructive demographic in America because it has no truth.

Pro-Israel is fake. You know the topic. Two to three knowledge are right.

 

[Zavulon]

Her...

Eleutheria/Libertas? Political incarnation of Artemis/Diana/Hecata?

 

[pal]

There are two right-wing political forces, two left-wing political forces, and one centrist political force.

 

[hobelim]

There are two right-wing political forces, two left-wing political forces, and one centrist political force.

You seem to have left out the majority of people.