Zone1 Why is it so tough to believe in God?

[hobelim]

How did the writer of (Genesis) know Sarah laughed silently? He couldn't have.

He couldn't have? Why not? He was the writer after all. You may not realize this being such a devout and dedicated believer in bullshit who loves Jesus so much you find nothing wrong with the specious lie that Jesus, an innocent Jewish man, was crucified to pay the penalty for your own obscene and perverse sins, which is objectively reprehensible, while remaining oblivious to the fact that because you brazenly and openly sin, and mislead others do do the same (which amounts to murder) you have your reward already. Death, a curse that you, without even an inkling, so shamelessly generously and perfectly display for everyone with eyes to see.

But by all means carry on with your charade. Don't let the truth, reality, or well known literary devices stop you.



People could use the laugh.

 

[forkup]

You don't have to promise what is already known. Your other questions are pointless. Believe that I am delusional, brainwashed, etc. I don't care what you believe about me. This discussion was centered on why some in general believe and why some do not.

Au contraire, your refusal to answer is exactly what makes my questions illuminating.

You could have admitted the obvious: that there’s no reliable way to distinguish your beliefs from delusion or from any other religion within the framework of believing in spirituality as just another way to find answers. But doing so would force you to face the possibility that you might be wrong, and that’s what you can’t abide.

Instead, you built a strawman. I never called you delusional, I asked how you tell the difference. You then pretended indifference to accusations I never made. But the fact you started this OP, and have been defending your faith to strangers for a long time, shows you care deeply about this. That contradiction is telling.

By refusing to answer, you’ve signaled that when faced with the choice between honesty and protecting your faith, you chose protection. That’s not pointless, it’s the clearest evidence of the problem I was pointing out.

So that's why I don't believe in religion in general, and your claims in particular. Because religion doesn't have a framework that allows for the possibility of being wrong making it useless as a way to truth

 

[hobelim]

Au contraire, your refusal to answer is exactly what makes my questions illuminating.

You could have admitted the obvious: that there’s no reliable way to distinguish your beliefs from delusion or from any other religion. But doing so would force you to face the possibility that you might be wrong, and that’s what you can’t abide.

Instead, you built a strawman. I never called you delusional, I asked how you tell the difference. You then pretended indifference to accusations I never made. But the fact you started this OP, and have been defending your faith to strangers for a long time, shows you care deeply about this. That contradiction is telling.

By refusing to answer, you’ve signaled that when faced with the choice between honesty and protecting your faith, you chose protection. That’s not pointless, it’s the clearest evidence of the problem I was pointing out.

So that's why I don't believe in religion in general, and your claims in particular. Because religion doesn't have a framework that allows for the possibility of being wrong making it useless as a way to truth

Which clearly illustrates the reason why duplicitous religious people who have demonstrated an inability to be honest should never be allowed to occupy any position of authority in government that requires the public trust.

If they can be so cowardly, deceitful, and cruel about something so important with each other, throwing Jesus, an innocent Jewish man who they love so very much and worship as their mangod. , under the bus to save their asses, how much more so will they be that fucked up way, cowardly, deceitful, and cruel, with unbelievers?

 

[forkup]

Which clearly illustrates the reason why duplicitous religious people who have demonstrated an inability to be honest should never be allowed to occupy any position of authority in government that requires the public trust.

If they can be so cowardly, deceitful, and cruel about something so important with each other, throwing Jesus, an innocent Jewish man who they love so very much and worship as their mangod. , under the bus to save their asses, how much more so will they be that fucked up way, cowardly, deceitful, and cruel, with unbelievers?

I don’t agree. Many religious people are perfectly capable of distinguishing truth from fiction their religion aside, and are responsible, generous, and non‑judgmental. Religion, like politics, is only one aspect of a person’s identity. Dishonesty and cruelty aren’t unique to religion, they’re human traits that can show up in any ideology. That’s why I think it’s dangerous to generalize people based on a single aspect of who they are.

 

[hobelim]

I don’t agree. Many religious people are perfectly capable of distinguishing truth from fiction their religion aside, and are responsible, generous, and non‑judgmental. Religion, like politics, is only one aspect of a person’s identity. Dishonesty and cruelty aren’t unique to religion, they’re human traits that can show up in any ideology. That’s why I think it’s dangerous to generalize people based on a single aspect of who they are.

I see what you are saying and agree to a point. The problem is that anyone who can and does separate their religious beliefs from how they view others are at best hypocrites. That being said the aggressively zealous about their religious beliefs have managed to claw their way to the top putting the world at risk of collapse into chaos.

Anyone can watch this live and in living color on the Tee Vee.

 

[forkup]

I see what you are saying and agree to a point. The problem is that anyone who can and does separate their religious beliefs from how they treat others are at best hypocrites. That being said the aggressively zealous about their religious beliefs have managed to claw their way to the top putting the world at rick of collapse into chaos

Anyone can watch this live and in living color on the Tee Vee.

Everybody is a hypocrite to some degree. I make it a point to be as consistent as I can, because inconsistency is a pet peeve of mine, but nobody can ever be 100% consistent.

Zealotry in any form is dangerous and should be resisted. The best way to do that, in my view, is to look at people as individuals and judge them accordingly. I’m not naive, stereotypes exist for a reason, but my sense of fairness doesn’t allow me to paint with a broad brush.

 

[hobelim]

Everybody is a hypocrite to some degree. I make it a point to be as consistent as I can, because inconsistency is a pet peeve of mine, but nobody can ever be 100% consistent.

Zealotry in any form is dangerous and should be resisted. The best way to do that, in my view, is to look at people as individuals and judge them accordingly. I’m not naive, stereotypes exist for a reason, but my sense of fairness doesn’t allow me to paint with a broad brush.

What does one get for pretending the danger is not real?

MAGA

Now this is all aside from the fact that anyone who claims to love Jesus but doesn't have a moral or ethic problem with letting an innocent man die in their place for their sins isn't exactly a moral or ethical person even if it looks like they are just innocently playing bingo or having a bake sale to raise money for the poor they are enabling and empowering zealots who would burn you at the stake if they thought they could get away with it.

 

[forkup]

What does one get for pretending the danger isn't real?

MAGA

Now this is all aside from the fact that anyone who claims to love Jesus but doesn't have a moral or ethic problem with letting an innocent man die in their place for their sins isn't exactly a moral or ethical person.

Even if it looks like they are just innocently playing bingo or having a bake sale to raise money for the poor.

I did say I'm not naive. I acknowledged stereotypes for a reason, but what do you think is a more effective counter.

"Being a Trump supporter makes you evil." or

"Here's a mirror, do you really want to be that person?"

Granted neither has much chance but yours has little to none. Again respectfully.

As for the rest. Sure, you can't be a member of an organized religion and not at least be somewhat hypocritical. And if you want to claim religions pose impossible ethical problems, again no argument.

But I was raised religious although not in the US and my teachings approached religion as an ideal, carefully scouring out the bad parts, of which I wasn't aware. I stopped being religious once I figured out it demanded adherence to things that were highly unlikely, but I can't say what I was taught in that form posed ethical problems.

 

[hobelim]

I did say I'm not naive. I acknowledged stereotypes for a reason, but what do you think is a more effective counter.

"Being a Trump supporter makes you evil." or

"Here's a mirror, do you really want to be that person?"

Granted neither has much chance but yours has little to none. Again respectfully.

I see no reason to dick around. Between a spirit of truth and a spirit of perversity there will always be enmity.

There is no fence to sit on. If one tries they will be chewed up and spit out by both sides.

 

[forkup]

I see no reason to dick around. Between a spirit of truth and a spirt of perversity there will always be enmity.

There is no fence to sit on. If one tries they will be chewed up and spit out by both sides.

Hobelim I advise you to check my posts on here. You will find no fence.

But I refuse to give up the principles I defend here in this OP in the name of politics. That would make me a hypocrite, to point back to what we were discussing earlier. If that means both sides chew me out. It's a price I'll gladly pay. I'm here to defend what I consider the truth. Not to signal to a particular side. It's not that I don't have a side. But If I have to use the tactics someone like Meriweather employs in order to win. I'd rather lose.

 

[Quantrill]

genesis 3:14

(Gen. 3:14) says nothing about Jesus praying to God the Father. (John 17:1-26) does.

Try and keep up.

Quantrill

 

[hobelim]

Hobelim I advise you to check my posts on here. You will find no fence.

But I refuse to give up the principles I defend here in this OP in the name of politics. That would make me a hypocrite, to point back to what we were discussing earlier. If that means both sides chew me out. It's a price I'll gladly pay. I'm here to defend what I consider the truth. Not to signal to a particular side. It's not that I don't have a side. But If I have to use the tactics someone like Meriweather employs in order to win. I'd rather lose.

I understand and agree. I would be gladly be proven wrong about anything if that brings the truth out. But the problem I see is the fact that many devout Christians of every denomination have set themselves up as keepers of the moral law while they themselves, according to their own openly professed beliefs, are wholly immoral.


This is not kosher!

 

[Quantrill]

He couldn't have? Why not? He was the writer after all. You may not realize this being such a devout and dedicated believer in bullshit who loves Jesus so much you find nothing wrong with the specious lie that Jesus, an innocent Jewish man, was crucified to pay the penalty for your own obscene and perverse sins, which is objectively reprehensible, while remaining oblivious to the fact that because you brazenly and openly sin, and mislead others do do the same (which amounts to murder) you have your reward already. Death, a curse that you, without even an inkling, so shamelessly generously and perfectly display for everyone with eyes to see.

But by all means carry on with your charade. Don't let the truth, reality, or well known literary devices stop you.



People could use the laugh.

God is the Author. He inspired 'men' to write the Scriptures.

I explained it in post #(805), which you fail to produce as it shows not only your ignorance, but your manipulation of what is said.

Just as you want to manipulate my posts, so do you manipulate the Scriptures. That is your nature. You're a phony. You can't help it. Can't change the leopards' spots.

Quantrill

 

[forkup]

I understand and agree. I would be gladly be proven wrong about anything if that brings the truth out. Even so the problem I see is the fact that may devout Christians of every denomination have set themselves up as keepers of the moral law while they themselves according to their own openly professed beliefs are wholly immoral.

This is not kosher!

No it isn't. That's the reason I'm doing what I'm doing. I try to rip the fig leaf of by using sound epistemology. I'm pretty good at it if I do say so myself.

I've found that the mirror I offer people has at least some chance of getting through. Although it can be frustrating, time-consuming, and it's exceedingly rare.

 

[hobelim]

God is the Author. He inspired 'men' to write the Scriptures.

Don't worry.

'You are saved because Jesus, an innocent Jewish man, paid the penalty, death, for your own stupid sins" Yay!

Anyone with eyes that see can distinguish right from wrong and know who is by their own words full of shit.

 

[Quantrill]

Don't worry.

'You are saved because Jesus, an innocent Jewish man, paid the penalty, death, for your own stupid sins" Yay!

Anyone with eyes that see can distinguish right from wrong and know who is by their own words full of shit.

I'm not worried. Why should I be?

I believe the Bible. I believe God.

You don't believe either. Good luck.

Quantrill

 

[hobelim]

No it isn't. That's the reason I'm doing what I'm doing. I try to rip the fig leaf of by using sound epistemology.

And the reason that I am doing what I am doing.

Their false claim to moral authority upon which they base their persecution of the innocent has gone right out the window.

Even if they have been confounded, bewildered, confused, and perplexed, and don't know it yet.

 

[forkup]

And the reason that I am doing what I am doing.

Their false claim to moral authority upon which they base their persecution of the innocent has gone right out the window.

Even if they have been confounded, bewildered, confused, and perplexed, and don't know it yet.

Good talk

 

[hobelim]

I'm not worried. Why should I be?

Why? Good question.

When a person sins after receiving knowledge of the truth no sacrifice for sin remains so they can only have a terrifying expectation of Judgement. But only according to the Bible that you claim to believe is the word of God.

 

[Quantrill]

Why? Good question.

When a person sins after receiving knowledge of the truth no sacrifice for sin remains so they can only have a terrifying expectation of Judgement. But only according to the Bible that you claim to believe is the word of God.

As usual, you like to say things but don't give the Bible reference. Give the reference for what you are saying or just shut up as usual.

Quantrill